San Bernardino Shootings Kill 14

rgambs

BS44325 said:

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

BS44325 said:

oftenreading said:

BS44325 said:

oftenreading said:

BS44325 said:

blueandwhite said:

BS44325 said:

The wife (second shooter) Tashfeen Malik had Pakistani passport and was in the US on a K-1 visa. She was fully vetted and yet this happened. More evidence that the verification system is broken.

It is inevitable that in any system that a few criminals will pass through. Pretending that this is a common event is absurd. Of the tens of thousands of gun related homicides that occur in the US each year, how many of them are actually tied to Islamic fundamentalism? Personally I'd be far more fearful of the everyday gun owner than of the ISIS terrorist whom I'm far less likely to ever encounter. Whether you choose to believe it or not, you're more likely to be killed by a gun toting neighbour than dying in a random terrorist attack.
cnn.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-shooting-terrorism-gun-violence/

When you are over 100 times more likely to be killed by a random act of gun violence than by a terrorist you have to ask yourself. 'what are you really afraid of'?

I don't think the families of those fourteen dead americans are interested in how common or uncommon these types of attacks are. We should be trying to stop acts of radical islamic terror not because it is common or out of fear but because it is the right thing to do. This is not something we should have to accept as just being part of life.

Shouldn't stopping all the other, far more common forms gun violence, be the right thing to do, too? And if not, why not, since they affect far greater numbers of people?

Yes. Of course. We can do both.

We could, but not by focusing all the attention of the "radical islamic terror" aspect of these incidents.

Of course but we shouldn't avoid the radical islamic terror portion of it also. That is my whole point which is getting lost in the weeds. Some just want to label it straight -up gun violence and look away from the wider war on terror issues.

This is not just a crazy with a gun.(again)This was an act of terrorism in support of the twisted views of radicalized Muslim wackos.They had a fucking bomb lab,and multiple explosive devices.They wanted more bloodshed.Totally sad all the way around

You guys are right, we do have to recognize that radical Islamic terrorism is a problem that needs dealt with, and I think it is being treated with appropriate gravity at all the levels it needs to be... The problem is that conservative rhetoric pushes it too far, it is pushed into the realm of Islamophobia, which doesn't produce safety, it produces anti-Muslim violence. That is why you have liberals who resist bold speech about the subject. Mosques are being threatened and vandalized again, though not yet to the severity of the post 9\11 days. If you guys think that the constant rantings about radical Islam from conservative sources isn't a direct contributor to that sort of bigotry, you are just out of touch with what is happening in the conservative circles that are beneath you in class and intelligence.

I don't disagree with this at all but when I bring up the same point that some BDS speech results in the targeting of Jews I am told exactly the opposite.

I wouldn't refute that some BDS speech results in targeting of Jewish people, but the Bataclan connection is pretty loose, and that's why you took heat.

BS44325

rgambs said:

BS44325 said:

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

BS44325 said:

oftenreading said:

BS44325 said:

oftenreading said:

BS44325 said:

blueandwhite said:

BS44325 said:

The wife (second shooter) Tashfeen Malik had Pakistani passport and was in the US on a K-1 visa. She was fully vetted and yet this happened. More evidence that the verification system is broken.

It is inevitable that in any system that a few criminals will pass through. Pretending that this is a common event is absurd. Of the tens of thousands of gun related homicides that occur in the US each year, how many of them are actually tied to Islamic fundamentalism? Personally I'd be far more fearful of the everyday gun owner than of the ISIS terrorist whom I'm far less likely to ever encounter. Whether you choose to believe it or not, you're more likely to be killed by a gun toting neighbour than dying in a random terrorist attack.
cnn.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-shooting-terrorism-gun-violence/

When you are over 100 times more likely to be killed by a random act of gun violence than by a terrorist you have to ask yourself. 'what are you really afraid of'?

I don't think the families of those fourteen dead americans are interested in how common or uncommon these types of attacks are. We should be trying to stop acts of radical islamic terror not because it is common or out of fear but because it is the right thing to do. This is not something we should have to accept as just being part of life.

Shouldn't stopping all the other, far more common forms gun violence, be the right thing to do, too? And if not, why not, since they affect far greater numbers of people?

Yes. Of course. We can do both.

We could, but not by focusing all the attention of the "radical islamic terror" aspect of these incidents.

Of course but we shouldn't avoid the radical islamic terror portion of it also. That is my whole point which is getting lost in the weeds. Some just want to label it straight -up gun violence and look away from the wider war on terror issues.

This is not just a crazy with a gun.(again)This was an act of terrorism in support of the twisted views of radicalized Muslim wackos.They had a fucking bomb lab,and multiple explosive devices.They wanted more bloodshed.Totally sad all the way around

You guys are right, we do have to recognize that radical Islamic terrorism is a problem that needs dealt with, and I think it is being treated with appropriate gravity at all the levels it needs to be... The problem is that conservative rhetoric pushes it too far, it is pushed into the realm of Islamophobia, which doesn't produce safety, it produces anti-Muslim violence. That is why you have liberals who resist bold speech about the subject. Mosques are being threatened and vandalized again, though not yet to the severity of the post 9\11 days. If you guys think that the constant rantings about radical Islam from conservative sources isn't a direct contributor to that sort of bigotry, you are just out of touch with what is happening in the conservative circles that are beneath you in class and intelligence.

I don't disagree with this at all but when I bring up the same point that some BDS speech results in the targeting of Jews I am told exactly the opposite.

I wouldn't refute that some BDS speech results in targeting of Jewish people, but the Bataclan connection is pretty loose, and that's why you took heat.

There is a loose jew hatred connection here as well...the work argument MIGHT have been over jewish/islamic politics

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/12/was-cali-killer-syed-farook-targeting-jewish-co-worker-nicholas-thalasinos/

Drowned Out

BS44325 said:

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

BS44325 said:

oftenreading said:

BS44325 said:

oftenreading said:

BS44325 said:

blueandwhite said:

BS44325 said:

The wife (second shooter) Tashfeen Malik had Pakistani passport and was in the US on a K-1 visa. She was fully vetted and yet this happened. More evidence that the verification system is broken.

It is inevitable that in any system that a few criminals will pass through. Pretending that this is a common event is absurd. Of the tens of thousands of gun related homicides that occur in the US each year, how many of them are actually tied to Islamic fundamentalism? Personally I'd be far more fearful of the everyday gun owner than of the ISIS terrorist whom I'm far less likely to ever encounter. Whether you choose to believe it or not, you're more likely to be killed by a gun toting neighbour than dying in a random terrorist attack.
cnn.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-shooting-terrorism-gun-violence/

When you are over 100 times more likely to be killed by a random act of gun violence than by a terrorist you have to ask yourself. 'what are you really afraid of'?

I don't think the families of those fourteen dead americans are interested in how common or uncommon these types of attacks are. We should be trying to stop acts of radical islamic terror not because it is common or out of fear but because it is the right thing to do. This is not something we should have to accept as just being part of life.

Shouldn't stopping all the other, far more common forms gun violence, be the right thing to do, too? And if not, why not, since they affect far greater numbers of people?

Yes. Of course. We can do both.

We could, but not by focusing all the attention of the "radical islamic terror" aspect of these incidents.

Of course but we shouldn't avoid the radical islamic terror portion of it also. That is my whole point which is getting lost in the weeds. Some just want to label it straight -up gun violence and look away from the wider war on terror issues.

This is not just a crazy with a gun.(again)This was an act of terrorism in support of the twisted views of radicalized Muslim wackos.They had a fucking bomb lab,and multiple explosive devices.They wanted more bloodshed.Totally sad all the way around

You guys are right, we do have to recognize that radical Islamic terrorism is a problem that needs dealt with, and I think it is being treated with appropriate gravity at all the levels it needs to be... The problem is that conservative rhetoric pushes it too far, it is pushed into the realm of Islamophobia, which doesn't produce safety, it produces anti-Muslim violence. That is why you have liberals who resist bold speech about the subject. Mosques are being threatened and vandalized again, though not yet to the severity of the post 9\11 days. If you guys think that the constant rantings about radical Islam from conservative sources isn't a direct contributor to that sort of bigotry, you are just out of touch with what is happening in the conservative circles that are beneath you in class and intelligence.

I don't disagree with this at all but when I bring up the same point that some BDS speech results in the targeting of Jews I am told exactly the opposite.

The obvious difference being - ISIS advocates violence while the BDS movement is solely focused on non-violent means of activism. Israel's apologists will not tolerate any resistance whatsoever to their occupation and land grabs, so they do what they can to paint all resistors as extremists who foment violence.
By your logic, you are culpable for the deaths of thousands of peaceful muslims due to your posts on this forum.

muskydan

josevolution said:

muskydan said:

josevolution said:

muskydan said:

josevolution said:

muskydan said:

Has Obummer made a statement yet now that we know these "gun nuts" were radical Muslims?

He said he agrees with you and all the muslimhaters they all need to be deported or jailed and that any cops under scrutiny will be pardon ...so your boy who pumped 16 bullets into the 17 yr old will get another desk job with a raise ....

Holy crap!!! I sure hope you don't own any guns. If you are going to throw shots at me personally , atleast know what you are talking about.

If he has said something, I must have missed it being at work all day. I look forward to hearing how Obummer is going 2 spin this one.

How am i taking shots at you ? and no i don't own a gun or any weapon unless the kitchen knives count ....Oh wait i must of mistaking you for someone else who hates the muslims , spanish, blacks , gays , liberals am i forgetting any groups .....

I guarantee I can call more people friends combined in all of those groups of humans than you. I can give 2 Jose's that you don't like me, but lets try to keep it on point on what is really happening in this country w/ these radical Islamic terrorists.

Yeah ok , what kind of cop are you again ?

The kind that acknowledges TERRORISM when he see's it.

PJPOWER

brianlux said:

What is the motive for these shootings? Looks like this was perhaps not directly ISIS related. (And it's worth noting there is still a lot of speculation regarding motive.) My guess would be that the motive ultimately is a tragic end result of Islamophobia. Segregate and show bias against any one one group long and hard enough and bomb their homeland often enough and sure enough, someone is going off the deep end and do something terrible. I'm NOT condoning these acts, of course, just saying maybe we should look at why this kind of thing happens in the first place.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/04/us/san-bernardino-shooting/

"A law enforcement official said it appeared that Wednesday's attack -- which left 14 people dead and 21 wounded before the two attackers, Malik and her husband, Syed Rizwan Farook, were killed in a shootout with police -- may have been inspired by ISIS. But none of the officials said that ISIS directed or ordered the attack.
"This is looking more and more like self-radicalization," a law enforcement official said."

brianlux said:

What is the motive for these shootings? Looks like this was perhaps not directly ISIS related. (And it's worth noting there is still a lot of speculation regarding motive.) My guess would be that the motive ultimately is a tragic end result of Islamophobia. Segregate and show bias against any one one group long and hard enough and bomb their homeland often enough and sure enough, someone is going off the deep end and do something terrible. I'm NOT condoning these acts, of course, just saying maybe we should look at why this kind of thing happens in the first place.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/04/us/san-bernardino-shooting/

"A law enforcement official said it appeared that Wednesday's attack -- which left 14 people dead and 21 wounded before the two attackers, Malik and her husband, Syed Rizwan Farook, were killed in a shootout with police -- may have been inspired by ISIS. But none of the officials said that ISIS directed or ordered the attack.
"This is looking more and more like self-radicalization," a law enforcement official said."

So explain to me again how the ISIS kind of radical islamic ideology is not a motive when the bitch pledged her allegiance to them during the event? That seems to me to be the exact definition of motive. Radical Islamic ideology (kill kill kill) was a fundamental motive whether she was directly attached to ISIS or not.

rr165892

Gambsy,I don't disagree at all.I think most common sense folks can see an act of violence,even one that's religiously motivated and not blame everyone who practices that faith.Any retaliation or lashing out due to similar set of criteria is just the stupid people acting without thinking.

Brian,I don't agree with your last statement at all.Of course I can hear your frustration but Islamiphobia as a cause? Nah,That dog don't hunt.Just twisted fuckers with no one but themselves to blame.

Dan-O
If it walks like a duck,talks like a duck,and looks like a duck it's probably pretty good bet it's a fucking duck.You know it when you see it.

rr165892

rr165892 said:

Gambsy,I don't disagree at all.I think most common sense folks can see an act of violence,even one that's religiously motivated and not blame everyone who practices that faith.Any retaliation or lashing out due to similar set of criteria is just the stupid people acting without thinking.

Brian,I don't agree with your last statement at all.Of course I can hear your frustration but Islamiphobia as a cause? Nah,That dog don't hunt.Just twisted fuckers with no one but themselves to blame.

Dan-O
If it walks like a duck,talks like a duck,and looks like a duck it's probably pretty good bet it's a fucking duck.You know it when you see it.

BS,I think to a certain extent you are correct with some of the anti Israel rhetoric being anti Semitic or negative towards Jews I've noticed quite a bit of that on these boards ,but Drowned is kinda right that it's mostly been a political/financial thing not so much the same level of violence.So both fucked up and bad,just not same level.

RKCNDY

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rr165892 said:

CNN,just reporting ,the wife pledged allegiance to the ISIS leader.They found this on her social media accounts.Attack inspired by other attacks in Europe.

RK,you may be on the $$$ here.

"Once the flame begins to catch, the wind will blow it higher."

The legitimacy of the overall concern is for debate, but I cannot help but wonder to what extent these types of acts will reach? Are these extremist acts slowly accelerating or decelerating? Are they here to stay- something people will just have to accept as a part of life (less likely to die as a result of them versus...) ?

These uncertain questions make me pause for a degree of concern.

I'm thinking along the lines of those who take a position of respect or just try to blend in to society. People won't suspect them because they are "nice normal people" and then suddenly 'BOOM' they spring it on people. Think of all the psychotic people that did this...serial killers (I knew someone whose mother walked to school with Ted Bundy EVERY DAY "he was such a nice guy!"), pedophiles, rapists, etc. Not that we should suspect everybody is crazy...but it is sad to think that just because someone is 'such a nice person' that they would never do something horrible.

Jason P

I guess the landlord of the killers let the media in their apartment and they are having a media orgy right now and going through whatever they can get their hands on ... in an active crime scene!

Unbelievable ....

PJ_Soul

Jason P said:

I guess the landlord of the killers let the media in their apartment and they are having a media orgy right now and going through whatever they can get their hands on ... in an active crime scene!

Unbelievable ....

Do we know that it's still an active crime scene? Someone just showed me that, and I find it hard to believe that they would be doing that if it were. The police already went through the whole place, so it's quite possible that they were done with it. The crime wasn't actually committed there, so....

Jason P

PJ_Soul said:

Jason P said:

I guess the landlord of the killers let the media in their apartment and they are having a media orgy right now and going through whatever they can get their hands on ... in an active crime scene!

Unbelievable ....

Do we know that it's still an active crime scene? Someone just showed me that, and I find it hard to believe that they would be doing that if it were. The police already went through the whole place, so it's quite possible that they were done with it. The crime wasn't actually committed there, so....

The "journalists" paid the landlord $1000 to let them in

And the police stated it isn't cleared. I doubt it would be cleared for months from now.

josevolution

muskydan said:

josevolution said:

muskydan said:

josevolution said:

muskydan said:

josevolution said:

muskydan said:

Has Obummer made a statement yet now that we know these "gun nuts" were radical Muslims?

He said he agrees with you and all the muslimhaters they all need to be deported or jailed and that any cops under scrutiny will be pardon ...so your boy who pumped 16 bullets into the 17 yr old will get another desk job with a raise ....

Holy crap!!! I sure hope you don't own any guns. If you are going to throw shots at me personally , atleast know what you are talking about.

If he has said something, I must have missed it being at work all day. I look forward to hearing how Obummer is going 2 spin this one.

How am i taking shots at you ? and no i don't own a gun or any weapon unless the kitchen knives count ....Oh wait i must of mistaking you for someone else who hates the muslims , spanish, blacks , gays , liberals am i forgetting any groups .....

I guarantee I can call more people friends combined in all of those groups of humans than you. I can give 2 Jose's that you don't like me, but lets try to keep it on point on what is really happening in this country w/ these radical Islamic terrorists.

Yeah ok , what kind of cop are you again ?

The kind that acknowledges TERRORISM when he see's it.

So the dude who shot up the planned parenthood facility is a terrorist no ? You see terrorist are not only the brown middle eastern dudes they also come in white pale skin ...

BS44325

josevolution said:

muskydan said:

josevolution said:

muskydan said:

josevolution said:

muskydan said:

josevolution said:

muskydan said:

Has Obummer made a statement yet now that we know these "gun nuts" were radical Muslims?

He said he agrees with you and all the muslimhaters they all need to be deported or jailed and that any cops under scrutiny will be pardon ...so your boy who pumped 16 bullets into the 17 yr old will get another desk job with a raise ....

Holy crap!!! I sure hope you don't own any guns. If you are going to throw shots at me personally , atleast know what you are talking about.

If he has said something, I must have missed it being at work all day. I look forward to hearing how Obummer is going 2 spin this one.

How am i taking shots at you ? and no i don't own a gun or any weapon unless the kitchen knives count ....Oh wait i must of mistaking you for someone else who hates the muslims , spanish, blacks , gays , liberals am i forgetting any groups .....

I guarantee I can call more people friends combined in all of those groups of humans than you. I can give 2 Jose's that you don't like me, but lets try to keep it on point on what is really happening in this country w/ these radical Islamic terrorists.

Yeah ok , what kind of cop are you again ?

The kind that acknowledges TERRORISM when he see's it.

So the dude who shot up the planned parenthood facility is a terrorist no ? You see terrorist are not only the brown middle eastern dudes they also come in white pale skin ...

I am not sure that he is. It would depend on what definition of terrorism you are using. It has nothing to do with his skin colour. Was he committing an atrocity to advance a specific agenda in affiliation with some group or agency? He hasn't really left a manifesto of any kind. The unibomber, Tim McVeigh would be white terrorists in my mind but this planned parenthood guy I am not so sure....yet.

BS44325

Drowned Out said:

BS44325 said:

rgambs said:

rr165892 said:

BS44325 said:

oftenreading said:

BS44325 said:

oftenreading said:

BS44325 said:

blueandwhite said:

BS44325 said:

The wife (second shooter) Tashfeen Malik had Pakistani passport and was in the US on a K-1 visa. She was fully vetted and yet this happened. More evidence that the verification system is broken.

It is inevitable that in any system that a few criminals will pass through. Pretending that this is a common event is absurd. Of the tens of thousands of gun related homicides that occur in the US each year, how many of them are actually tied to Islamic fundamentalism? Personally I'd be far more fearful of the everyday gun owner than of the ISIS terrorist whom I'm far less likely to ever encounter. Whether you choose to believe it or not, you're more likely to be killed by a gun toting neighbour than dying in a random terrorist attack.
cnn.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-shooting-terrorism-gun-violence/

When you are over 100 times more likely to be killed by a random act of gun violence than by a terrorist you have to ask yourself. 'what are you really afraid of'?

I don't think the families of those fourteen dead americans are interested in how common or uncommon these types of attacks are. We should be trying to stop acts of radical islamic terror not because it is common or out of fear but because it is the right thing to do. This is not something we should have to accept as just being part of life.

Shouldn't stopping all the other, far more common forms gun violence, be the right thing to do, too? And if not, why not, since they affect far greater numbers of people?

Yes. Of course. We can do both.

We could, but not by focusing all the attention of the "radical islamic terror" aspect of these incidents.

Of course but we shouldn't avoid the radical islamic terror portion of it also. That is my whole point which is getting lost in the weeds. Some just want to label it straight -up gun violence and look away from the wider war on terror issues.

This is not just a crazy with a gun.(again)This was an act of terrorism in support of the twisted views of radicalized Muslim wackos.They had a fucking bomb lab,and multiple explosive devices.They wanted more bloodshed.Totally sad all the way around

You guys are right, we do have to recognize that radical Islamic terrorism is a problem that needs dealt with, and I think it is being treated with appropriate gravity at all the levels it needs to be... The problem is that conservative rhetoric pushes it too far, it is pushed into the realm of Islamophobia, which doesn't produce safety, it produces anti-Muslim violence. That is why you have liberals who resist bold speech about the subject. Mosques are being threatened and vandalized again, though not yet to the severity of the post 9\11 days. If you guys think that the constant rantings about radical Islam from conservative sources isn't a direct contributor to that sort of bigotry, you are just out of touch with what is happening in the conservative circles that are beneath you in class and intelligence.

I don't disagree with this at all but when I bring up the same point that some BDS speech results in the targeting of Jews I am told exactly the opposite.

The obvious difference being - ISIS advocates violence while the BDS movement is solely focused on non-violent means of activism. Israel's apologists will not tolerate any resistance whatsoever to their occupation and land grabs, so they do what they can to paint all resistors as extremists who foment violence.
By your logic, you are culpable for the deaths of thousands of peaceful muslims due to your posts on this forum.

Yes but ISIS and BDS are two circles of a Venn diagram and there are segments which overlap. Without getting into another argument about BDS words like "apartheid" and "war crimes" which you think our justified to promote a boycott groups like ISIS use those same words to justify violence towards anyone who supports Israel. That is the dangerous line which does not even come close to my criticisms of radical Islam. Myself and others go out of our way to say radical Islam is a very small yet real subsection of the muslim population whereas BDS is heavily polluted with anti-semitic talk that is given a pass by the non-anti-semitic members.

josevolution

BS44325 said:

josevolution said:

muskydan said:

josevolution said:

muskydan said:

josevolution said:

muskydan said:

josevolution said:

muskydan said:

Has Obummer made a statement yet now that we know these "gun nuts" were radical Muslims?

He said he agrees with you and all the muslimhaters they all need to be deported or jailed and that any cops under scrutiny will be pardon ...so your boy who pumped 16 bullets into the 17 yr old will get another desk job with a raise ....

Holy crap!!! I sure hope you don't own any guns. If you are going to throw shots at me personally , atleast know what you are talking about.

If he has said something, I must have missed it being at work all day. I look forward to hearing how Obummer is going 2 spin this one.

How am i taking shots at you ? and no i don't own a gun or any weapon unless the kitchen knives count ....Oh wait i must of mistaking you for someone else who hates the muslims , spanish, blacks , gays , liberals am i forgetting any groups .....

I guarantee I can call more people friends combined in all of those groups of humans than you. I can give 2 Jose's that you don't like me, but lets try to keep it on point on what is really happening in this country w/ these radical Islamic terrorists.

Yeah ok , what kind of cop are you again ?

The kind that acknowledges TERRORISM when he see's it.

So the dude who shot up the planned parenthood facility is a terrorist no ? You see terrorist are not only the brown middle eastern dudes they also come in white pale skin ...

I am not sure that he is. It would depend on what definition of terrorism you are using. It has nothing to do with his skin colour. Was he committing an atrocity to advance a specific agenda in affiliation with some group or agency? He hasn't really left a manifesto of any kind. The unibomber, Tim McVeigh would be white terrorists in my mind but this planned parenthood guy I am not so sure....yet.

I'd say he is a terrorist he instilled fear terror in that center by his actions but what do I know ...

PJ_Soul

Jason P said:

PJ_Soul said:

Jason P said:

I guess the landlord of the killers let the media in their apartment and they are having a media orgy right now and going through whatever they can get their hands on ... in an active crime scene!

Unbelievable ....

Do we know that it's still an active crime scene? Someone just showed me that, and I find it hard to believe that they would be doing that if it were. The police already went through the whole place, so it's quite possible that they were done with it. The crime wasn't actually committed there, so....

The "journalists" paid the landlord $1000 to let them in

And the police stated it isn't cleared. I doubt it would be cleared for months from now.

Okay, so is that even legal??

bootlegger10

josevolution said:

BS44325 said:

josevolution said:

muskydan said:

josevolution said:

muskydan said:

josevolution said:

muskydan said:

josevolution said:

muskydan said:

Has Obummer made a statement yet now that we know these "gun nuts" were radical Muslims?

He said he agrees with you and all the muslimhaters they all need to be deported or jailed and that any cops under scrutiny will be pardon ...so your boy who pumped 16 bullets into the 17 yr old will get another desk job with a raise ....

Holy crap!!! I sure hope you don't own any guns. If you are going to throw shots at me personally , atleast know what you are talking about.

If he has said something, I must have missed it being at work all day. I look forward to hearing how Obummer is going 2 spin this one.

How am i taking shots at you ? and no i don't own a gun or any weapon unless the kitchen knives count ....Oh wait i must of mistaking you for someone else who hates the muslims , spanish, blacks , gays , liberals am i forgetting any groups .....

I guarantee I can call more people friends combined in all of those groups of humans than you. I can give 2 Jose's that you don't like me, but lets try to keep it on point on what is really happening in this country w/ these radical Islamic terrorists.

Yeah ok , what kind of cop are you again ?

The kind that acknowledges TERRORISM when he see's it.

So the dude who shot up the planned parenthood facility is a terrorist no ? You see terrorist are not only the brown middle eastern dudes they also come in white pale skin ...

I am not sure that he is. It would depend on what definition of terrorism you are using. It has nothing to do with his skin colour. Was he committing an atrocity to advance a specific agenda in affiliation with some group or agency? He hasn't really left a manifesto of any kind. The unibomber, Tim McVeigh would be white terrorists in my mind but this planned parenthood guy I am not so sure....yet.

I'd say he is a terrorist he instilled fear terror in that center by his actions but what do I know ...

I would agree that it would be domestic terrorism unless it was personal in nature (i.e., the victim was a friend or family member). That would be the same argument as those saying San Bernardino was a workplace attack versus terror attack before all the facts came out. Certainly there is a fringe that would support violence against PP. It isn't as prevalent or as worldwide as Islamic fundamentalist terror but exists.

callen

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dudeman said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dudeman said:

When you look at the roughly 30,000 annual gun deaths in the US and realize that 20,000 of them are suicides, you begin to see that suicide is a huge problem. Let's deal with that.

Of the remaining 10,000, that number includes justifiable self-defense shootings by civilians and police, gang-related shootings and accidents.

If we can take care of the suicide and gang problem here, our gun death figures would be much more in line with the rest of the world.

I thought the 'remainder' was more along the lines of 16,000 per year?

And don't forget... some of those justifiable self defense shootings are suspect to say the least (Trayvon Martin for example).

Hey man, I said "roughly". LOL!

How about this?: Roughly 2/3 of annual gun-related deaths in the US are suicides.

A problem for sure.

Honestly, I feel like a broken record saying it too, capitalism has the potential to suck the soul out of society. Not only does it drive foul international policy, but it buries people domestically.

I support it in modified fashion, but left unchecked... it's ruthless. You wonder why people feel detached and hopeless... look no further than the opportunity they are provided.

Sweet writing Thirty.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

callen said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dudeman said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dudeman said:

When you look at the roughly 30,000 annual gun deaths in the US and realize that 20,000 of them are suicides, you begin to see that suicide is a huge problem. Let's deal with that.

Of the remaining 10,000, that number includes justifiable self-defense shootings by civilians and police, gang-related shootings and accidents.

If we can take care of the suicide and gang problem here, our gun death figures would be much more in line with the rest of the world.

I thought the 'remainder' was more along the lines of 16,000 per year?

And don't forget... some of those justifiable self defense shootings are suspect to say the least (Trayvon Martin for example).

Hey man, I said "roughly". LOL!

How about this?: Roughly 2/3 of annual gun-related deaths in the US are suicides.

A problem for sure.

Honestly, I feel like a broken record saying it too, capitalism has the potential to suck the soul out of society. Not only does it drive foul international policy, but it buries people domestically.

I support it in modified fashion, but left unchecked... it's ruthless. You wonder why people feel detached and hopeless... look no further than the opportunity they are provided.

Sweet writing Thirty.

Cheers!

bootlegger10

callen said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dudeman said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dudeman said:

When you look at the roughly 30,000 annual gun deaths in the US and realize that 20,000 of them are suicides, you begin to see that suicide is a huge problem. Let's deal with that.

Of the remaining 10,000, that number includes justifiable self-defense shootings by civilians and police, gang-related shootings and accidents.

If we can take care of the suicide and gang problem here, our gun death figures would be much more in line with the rest of the world.

I thought the 'remainder' was more along the lines of 16,000 per year?

And don't forget... some of those justifiable self defense shootings are suspect to say the least (Trayvon Martin for example).

Hey man, I said "roughly". LOL!

How about this?: Roughly 2/3 of annual gun-related deaths in the US are suicides.

A problem for sure.

Honestly, I feel like a broken record saying it too, capitalism has the potential to suck the soul out of society. Not only does it drive foul international policy, but it buries people domestically.

I support it in modified fashion, but left unchecked... it's ruthless. You wonder why people feel detached and hopeless... look no further than the opportunity they are provided.

Sweet writing Thirty.

When people or families end up with billions and billions there is a problem. To me, nobody's time or ideas are worth that much. I would love to spread the wealth to the worker class, but it is a slippery slope though between capitalism and the negatives of socialism. There is a disconnect for sure though between the have's and have not's.