Nothing wrong with being concerned about bigotry but maybe this thread should focus on how political correctness might have hindered prevention of the attack...
Nothing wrong with being concerned about bigotry but maybe this thread should focus on how political correctness might have hindered prevention of the attack...
Really disappointed at the racist comments in the thread on Islam, resulting in it being closed for review.
Same. That was actually the most racist shit I've ever seen on the boards (or, actually was it xenophobic, technically? Or no... is there a technical term for being hateful towards a specific religious group? .... I guess we can just call it bigotry )
I think it is racist. I think Islam is half scapegoat, the other half is racism toward what a Trump supporter would call a sandn***er, raghead, towelhead or some such nonsense. You hear those all the time in rural areas down here...true colors. It really tries my patience, and I am sad to see it here in such an enlightened forum.
I didn't see that Islam thread as being "racist". More of buying into stereotypes.
Educate. If you try forcing something down someone's throat they'll choke...
Isn't buying into stereotypes about a certain race a perfect example of racism?
No. That's why it's called a stereotype. If I used the word "cliche" would it ring differently?
If I thought all Irishman were drunks that makes me a racist?
Cmon man...
Educate them...
I really think that minimizing that kind of hatred by trying to call it stereotyping or, worse, a cliche, is a terrible idea. It's basically defence of bigotry. But education is never bad.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I have trouble calling these bigots and xenophobes, racists. Muslim is not a race. Not all are racists, but definitely some of them are.
Important point. I believe the country with the largest percentage of Muslims is Malaysia or Indonesia. That should blow some people's stereotypes.
Funny you say this. I asked Nart(bad brains) if he could read Arabic? He said "no". I said aren't you Muslim? He said yes but I'm not an Arab.
I had associated/worked with Muslims from the Middle East and not from anywhere else so that was my mistake.
The only Muslim I know well is my friend who happens to be a Bosnian Muslim, not a chance she could read Arabic either I imagine
I have known and do know many Muslims, and they are from all over the place. The one was closest with (had relationship with him, as well as a deep friendship) is of Indian decent but grew up in Thailand, went to American schools there, and university in Canada. Has never been to the Middle East. Most Muslims I know are just Canadians, and have also never been to the Middle East. The only person who I've really been friends with who is actually from the Middle East is a man who defected with his father from Iran and came to Canada to escape persecution. The reason the were in fear of their lives was because his dad was a member of the Iranian Communist party.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Neither of the two bombers here in Boston were Arabs. Both were Muslims. I do think there is an element of racism in play, maybe even a large element, but it certainly isn't just racism.
Yeah, I think it's a testament to how dumb they are. To some people, anyone who looks different is suspect. They see brown people, they don't make distinctions. But, yeah, racism is only a part, and not the whole.
I keep seeing hate memes against Muslims that picture Sikhs.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Nothing wrong with being concerned about bigotry but maybe this thread should focus on how political correctness might have hindered prevention of the attack...
Pretty classic of the AMT to always be concerned about the boogeyman on the right first.
Fair point.
Was it ever confirmed that the neighbors didn't speak up because they were scared of being accused of profiling? That too is a great concern.
The only thing I have heard from the neighbors is that they saw some men who looked like they were Arabs men in their neighborhood, visiting the Arab household of the attackers. The neighbors said in retrospect that maybe they should have contacted authorities.... because they saw people who looked Arab. Uuhh... If not calling the cops when you simply see Arabs in the area is PC, then something is seriously wrong with the meaning of PC! Hindsight is 20/20, but the neighbors didn't really see anything suspicious. I sincerely hope this isn't going to make people start reporting people to the authorities just because they "look Muslim"! The authorities themselves need to simply follow the law. The constitution. They need to investigate things that are suspicious. Pretty simple. If some dope in the FBI or HS or whatever decided to shut down an investigation of an Islamic terror group then he should be fired, because that makes no sense.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Nothing wrong with being concerned about bigotry but maybe this thread should focus on how political correctness might have hindered prevention of the attack...
Neither of the two bombers here in Boston were Arabs. Both were Muslims. I do think there is an element of racism in play, maybe even a large element, but it certainly isn't just racism.
Yeah, I think it's a testament to how dumb they are. To some people, anyone who looks different is suspect. They see brown people, they don't make distinctions. But, yeah, racism is only a part, and not the whole.
I keep seeing hate memes against Muslims that picture Sikhs.
Nothing wrong with being concerned about bigotry but maybe this thread should focus on how political correctness might have hindered prevention of the attack...
Pretty classic of the AMT to always be concerned about the boogeyman on the right first.
Fair point.
Was it ever confirmed that the neighbors didn't speak up because they were scared of being accused of profiling? That too is a great concern.
That is what the neighbour said but who knows how much of that is true. Hindsight is 20:20.
Yeah, because the neighbor saw Arabs. That is it. You can't call cops just because you see Arabs. It would be a complete waste of time, and yes, incredibly bigotted. He never saw any suspicious activity. It was a dumb thing for the neighbor to say.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Neither of the two bombers here in Boston were Arabs. Both were Muslims. I do think there is an element of racism in play, maybe even a large element, but it certainly isn't just racism.
Yeah, I think it's a testament to how dumb they are. To some people, anyone who looks different is suspect. They see brown people, they don't make distinctions. But, yeah, racism is only a part, and not the whole.
I keep seeing hate memes against Muslims that picture Sikhs.
I remember there was an attack, a few years ago, on a Sikh temple because dumbass rednecks don't know anything but what they see on Fox News. They don't know Islam from Hindu or any thing else. They see color and different garb and that's enough for them.
Nothing wrong with being concerned about bigotry but maybe this thread should focus on how political correctness might have hindered prevention of the attack...
Pretty classic of the AMT to always be concerned about the boogeyman on the right first.
Fair point.
Was it ever confirmed that the neighbors didn't speak up because they were scared of being accused of profiling? That too is a great concern.
That is what the neighbour said but who knows how much of that is true. Hindsight is 20:20.
Yeah, because the neighbor saw Arabs. That is it. You can't call cops just because you see Arabs. He never saw any suspicious activity.
Sometimes though "suspicious activity" can be as simple as seeing someone who looks out of place, looks like they don't belong, etc. Before that quickly gets turned around and someone accuses me of racism, understand that it isn't. A few months ago I returned home earlier than usual to find a strange teenager walking in the vicinity of a neighbor's driveway. It looked like he might have actually been in the driveway right before I caught sight of him, but I didn't actually see him there. We have a high school at the bottom of our street and there are teenagers around all the time...yet this kid INSTANTLY looked wrong. I didn't say anything to anyone, and two days later he was caught on a different neighbor's security camera, in their kitchen, robbing their house. I had seen him casing houses. Is there some hindsight there? Absolutely. But I still knew in the moment as I saw him that something wasn't right. Making the call to make a call when you see something isn't easy at all, and this kid was white. Racism never entered my mind. Had he not been white the decision to speak up would have been even more complicated. That is a concern.
But they weren't out of place. They were visiting the Arab family who lived on the street.
It's hard to argue with this. I would be far more concerned with the type of political correctness that might have impacted an FBI investigation as per the link above. Again...no one knows whether that investigation would have prevented anything but we cannot tie people's hands by shouting "racism". There is a middle ground.
But they weren't out of place. They were visiting the Arab family who lived on the street.
And the neighbor didn't say anything. That was the right decision. Other times not saying something may be the wrong decision. My point is that in this climate in which we live, in deciding whether or not to say something, we all have to weigh whether or not we will be labeled bigots, or racists, etc.
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"...I changed by not changing at all..."
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,800
Political correctness and racism/bigotry/xenophobia are two different things. One is arbitrary, the other is just simply wrong.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
But they weren't out of place. They were visiting the Arab family who lived on the street.
Pakistani, actually.
I'm waiting to hear more about what the FBI is learning in terms of their motives and radicalization. I read this morning that the husband's brother was only nominally religious, dated non-Muslim girls, drank alcohol, and joined the Navy after high school. So what motivated this guy?
He and his wife may have been researching and planning a terror plot but it looks like they were putting it together on their own, without assistance from a formal group. I find their target very odd. If you want to make a big terrorist statement, you find a conspicuous target. As someone who works in public health, a group of health department employees at a holiday party is not my idea of a major target! They deservedly attracted plenty of attention, but workplace conflict aside, I think it's strange choice. If they were working with or trained by a terrorist group, I don't believe this is the target which would have been chosen.
The whole thing is so awful in so many ways that it's still hard for me to take it in. Leaving your 6 month old child an orphan? How can someone do that? She will grow up as the daughter of reviled killers, not great martyrs.
But they weren't out of place. They were visiting the Arab family who lived on the street.
And the neighbor didn't say anything. That was the right decision. Other times not saying something may be the wrong decision. My point is that in this climate in which we live, in deciding whether or not to say something, we all have to weigh whether or not we will be labeled bigots, or racists, etc.
Like in this case... some man decided it was his duty to call the cops because he saw men with turbans moving things around in the trunk of their car in a parking lot... and then security at a football stadium almost wouldn't let the into the game because of their turbans and told them not to wear them again if they came back. What. The. Fuck. So.... good for the guy who decided not to be PC? This is the kind if thing that will happen over and over and over if people have the idea that profiling people is the best way to go rather than second guessing their paranoia and considering that maybe their fear isn't cool.
But they weren't out of place. They were visiting the Arab family who lived on the street.
And the neighbor didn't say anything. That was the right decision. Other times not saying something may be the wrong decision. My point is that in this climate in which we live, in deciding whether or not to say something, we all have to weigh whether or not we will be labeled bigots, or racists, etc.
Like in this case... some man decided it was his duty to call the cops because he saw men with turbans moving things around in the trunk of their car in a parking lot... and then security at a football stadium almost wouldn't let the into the game because of their turbans and told them not to wear them again if they came back. What. The. Fuck. So.... good for the guy who decided not to be PC? This is the kind if thing that will happen over and over and over if people have the idea that profiling people is the best way to go rather than second guessing their paranoia and considering that maybe their fear isn't cool.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
But they weren't out of place. They were visiting the Arab family who lived on the street.
And the neighbor didn't say anything. That was the right decision. Other times not saying something may be the wrong decision. My point is that in this climate in which we live, in deciding whether or not to say something, we all have to weigh whether or not we will be labeled bigots, or racists, etc.
Like in this case... some man decided it was his duty to call the cops because he saw men with turbans moving things around in the trunk of their car in a parking lot... and then security at a football stadium almost wouldn't let the into the game because of their turbans and told them not to wear them again if they came back. What. The. Fuck. So.... good for the guy who decided not to be PC? This is the kind if thing that will happen over and over and over if people have the idea that profiling people is the best way to go rather than second guessing their paranoia and considering that maybe their fear isn't cool.
But they weren't out of place. They were visiting the Arab family who lived on the street.
And the neighbor didn't say anything. That was the right decision. Other times not saying something may be the wrong decision. My point is that in this climate in which we live, in deciding whether or not to say something, we all have to weigh whether or not we will be labeled bigots, or racists, etc.
Like in this case... some man decided it was his duty to call the cops because he saw men with turbans moving things around in the trunk of their car in a parking lot... and then security at a football stadium almost wouldn't let the into the game because of their turbans and told them not to wear them again if they came back. What. The. Fuck. So.... good for the guy who decided not to be PC? This is the kind if thing that will happen over and over and over if people have the idea that profiling people is the best way to go rather than second guessing their paranoia and considering that maybe their fear isn't cool.
it would help if people werent too fucking stupid to know who they are actually seeing.
So if this story was about 3 Muslim men wearing amamas (the Muslim turban) rather than 3 Sikh men wearing turbans it would be okay??
No. If people understood exactly what and who they were seeing instead of beinng ruled by fear and making erroneous judgements this wouldnt be an issue. Instead PEOPLE ARE TOO FUCKING STUPID TO UNDERSTAND EXCATLY WHAT THEY ARE SEEING.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
But they weren't out of place. They were visiting the Arab family who lived on the street.
And the neighbor didn't say anything. That was the right decision. Other times not saying something may be the wrong decision. My point is that in this climate in which we live, in deciding whether or not to say something, we all have to weigh whether or not we will be labeled bigots, or racists, etc.
Like in this case... some man decided it was his duty to call the cops because he saw men with turbans moving things around in the trunk of their car in a parking lot... and then security at a football stadium almost wouldn't let the into the game because of their turbans and told them not to wear them again if they came back. What. The. Fuck. So.... good for the guy who decided not to be PC? This is the kind if thing that will happen over and over and over if people have the idea that profiling people is the best way to go rather than second guessing their paranoia and considering that maybe their fear isn't cool.
Morons being morons shouldn't preclude responsible people with legitimate concerns from speaking up. Neither should the culture of fear that surrounds non-PC speech. My point remains that I can see how it would.
And again, the original example was of someone who didn't speak up. Who didn't say anything at all. It turns out there was nothing to say. But he certainly didn't see four Sikhs and call the police.
There will always be morons and there will always be hate and there will always be ignorance. We shouldn't let that dictate what we can and can't say.
sounds to me like you are in favor of profiling and less in favor of freedom.
I'm in favour of both. You want a K-1 Visa to come to my country? I don't care what religion you are...let me see your facebook page! Everytime I have hired an employee? I have googled them. Everytime I have rented an apartment? I have checked facebook. A country has both the freedom and the duty to know who is on their way.
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,032
sounds to me like you are in favor of profiling and less in favor of freedom.
I'm in favour of both. You want a K-1 Visa to come to my country? I don't care what religion you are...let me see your facebook page! Everytime I have hired an employee? I have googled them. Everytime I have rented an apartment? I have checked facebook. A country has both the freedom and the duty to know who is on their way.
So what have you found out in the private chats? Oh that's right, nothing cuz you don't and shouldn't have access.
Simple fact, this experiment we live in does not come without its risks.
There is a 1 in 4 million chance a person is going to be a victim of a terrorist attack. 1 in 9 million of a mass shooting. Yes that takes the air out of the push for some kind of action on gun regulation but accurate it is. The $ costs and the figurative costs to civil liberties are too great in my opinion to continue with some of the shit we already have given up much less adding more to that. Use the dollars spent in better ways and seek to. Minimize the infringements of the average Americans civil liberties.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
I want to know who the FUCK just hands over their assault rifles.
"No need to worry about background checks or registration, just take 'em!"
(even typing that is messed up)
Hope that asshole friend/neighbor pays the price for his part in this.
I want to know who the FUCK just hands over their assault rifles.
"No need to worry about background checks or registration, just take 'em!"
(even typing that is messed up)
Hope that asshole friend/neighbor pays the price for his part in this.
Yeah and he was able to purchase weapons but didnt have the common sense to realize it's a bad idea to give weapons away to his neighbor ...this guy is clueless or he knew exactly what those weapons were going to be used for ...
Nothing wrong with being concerned about bigotry but maybe this thread should focus on how political correctness might have hindered prevention of the attack...
Pretty classic of the AMT to always be concerned about the boogeyman on the right first.
Fair point.
Was it ever confirmed that the neighbors didn't speak up because they were scared of being accused of profiling? That too is a great concern.
That is what the neighbour said but who knows how much of that is true. Hindsight is 20:20.
Yeah, because the neighbor saw Arabs. That is it. You can't call cops just because you see Arabs. It would be a complete waste of time, and yes, incredibly bigotted. He never saw any suspicious activity. It was a dumb thing for the neighbor to say.
Wrong...Police get calls of suspicious looking people all the time. Probably 15% of all police calls in my town. Many solid pinches and piece's of shit have been taken off the street by concerned neighbors who made a call cause something does not pass the smell test. But go ahead and keep your blinders on so you don't offend anyone. We Got Some real pathetic neighbors on here.
Comments
http://dailycaller.com/2015/12/11/whistleblower-feds-shut-down-terror-investigation-that-could-have-prevented-san-bernardino-attack/
Pretty classic of the AMT to always be concerned about the boogeyman on the right first.
Was it ever confirmed that the neighbors didn't speak up because they were scared of being accused of profiling? That too is a great concern.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
But education is never bad.
Hindsight is 20/20, but the neighbors didn't really see anything suspicious. I sincerely hope this isn't going to make people start reporting people to the authorities just because they "look Muslim"!
The authorities themselves need to simply follow the law. The constitution. They need to investigate things that are suspicious. Pretty simple. If some dope in the FBI or HS or whatever decided to shut down an investigation of an Islamic terror group then he should be fired, because that makes no sense.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
I'm waiting to hear more about what the FBI is learning in terms of their motives and radicalization. I read this morning that the husband's brother was only nominally religious, dated non-Muslim girls, drank alcohol, and joined the Navy after high school. So what motivated this guy?
He and his wife may have been researching and planning a terror plot but it looks like they were putting it together on their own, without assistance from a formal group. I find their target very odd. If you want to make a big terrorist statement, you find a conspicuous target. As someone who works in public health, a group of health department employees at a holiday party is not my idea of a major target! They deservedly attracted plenty of attention, but workplace conflict aside, I think it's strange choice. If they were working with or trained by a terrorist group, I don't believe this is the target which would have been chosen.
The whole thing is so awful in so many ways that it's still hard for me to take it in. Leaving your 6 month old child an orphan? How can someone do that? She will grow up as the daughter of reviled killers, not great martyrs.
This is the kind if thing that will happen over and over and over if people have the idea that profiling people is the best way to go rather than second guessing their paranoia and considering that maybe their fear isn't cool.
http://deadspin.com/sikh-fans-refused-entry-to-chargers-stadium-because-of-1747700888
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
And again, the original example was of someone who didn't speak up. Who didn't say anything at all. It turns out there was nothing to say. But he certainly didn't see four Sikhs and call the police.
There will always be morons and there will always be hate and there will always be ignorance. We shouldn't let that dictate what we can and can't say.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/secret-us-policy-blocks-agents-social-media-visa/story?id=35749325
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Simple fact, this experiment we live in does not come without its risks.
There is a 1 in 4 million chance a person is going to be a victim of a terrorist attack. 1 in 9 million of a mass shooting. Yes that takes the air out of the push for some kind of action on gun regulation but accurate it is. The $ costs and the figurative costs to civil liberties are too great in my opinion to continue with some of the shit we already have given up much less adding more to that. Use the dollars spent in better ways and seek to. Minimize the infringements of the average Americans civil liberties.
Do as you wish in Canada.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
"No need to worry about background checks or registration, just take 'em!"
(even typing that is messed up)
Hope that asshole friend/neighbor pays the price for his part in this.