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Hillary won more votes for President

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    Dirtie_FrankDirtie_Frank Posts: 1,348
    The FBI director left the decision up to the American People. He knew that if he recommended criminal charges that the politics surrounding this would get in the way. He pretty much destroyed any credibility of HRC words that she has said over the past year + that she has not sent classified emails and then walking it back saying she never sent anything marked classified. It is now in the hands of the voter. Do you trust the billionaire who gets a too loose with his lips in remarks or do you trust the career politician who has a track record of lying to the American people?
    96 Randall's Island II
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    Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504

    The FBI director left the decision up to the American People. He knew that if he recommended criminal charges that the politics surrounding this would get in the way. He pretty much destroyed any credibility of HRC words that she has said over the past year + that she has not sent classified emails and then walking it back saying she never sent anything marked classified. It is now in the hands of the voter. Do you trust the billionaire who gets a too loose with his lips in remarks or do you trust the career politician who has a track record of lying to the American people?

    it's a messy situation for sure but as you said she has been lying to Americans for a loooong time so how can she be trusted ?
    so no charges have been filed but her true self has been put on display for the whole world to see

    Godfather.

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    gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 22,287

    BS44325 said:

    mrussel1 said:

    BS44325 said:

    mrussel1 said:

    BS44325 said:

    mrussel1 said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    Folsom Naval Rerservist charged and sentenced:

    https://m.fbi.gov/#https://www.fbi.gov/sacramento/press-releases/2015/folsom-naval-reservist-is-sentenced-after-pleading-guilty-to-unauthorized-removal-and-retention-of-classified-materials

    And apparently intent didn't matter

    Second paragraph from the bottom:

    "The investigation did not reveal evidence that Nishimura intended to distribute classified information to unauthorized personnel."

    Once again laws are for the little people.

    This has nothing to do with Clinton's case. This guy knowingly moved classified information from a authorized computer to a computer that was not authorized by the US government. Why can't you see the difference here?
    As per the Inspector Generals' report Clinton's server was not authorized by the US government nor were her mobile devices authorized for the purposes of sending or receiving classified information. Someone moved information to these unauthorized systems and she then knowingly participated in further dissemination. This "guy" unintentionally moved information to his unauthorized mobile device and later destroyed some of this information. The crime is the same.
    Why is it that you think you have so much more information than the FBI? Here is Comey's statement addressing this very issue:

    In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.

    https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b.-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clintons-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system
    I don't claim to know more but the statement you highlighted has already been shown to be false and if you spend anytime watching and/or reading the news today you will see that many lawyers and former justice department officials tend to agree with me. Comey was up against a justice department and administration that was never going to indict but his unprecedented statement of facts completely indicted her character.

    Also here is the definiton of negligence for you:

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/negligence

    As you can see it involves a lack of "care"

    Extreme carelessness and gross negligence are really one and the same.
    So you have proven the Director of the FBI to be a liar. The lawyers and former justice officials are not privy to all of the information that the FBI was. They did not conduct the investigation, and they are likely partisan in nature or in some way. Also, if they are on TV, they are paid to have an opinion. So in all, their opinion does not carry the same weight as the Director's.

    Second, again, you seem to think you have a better grasp of the legal concept of gross negligence than the lawyers in the FBI. It's really impressive that a Canadian citizen has a better understanding of the US statutes than the best prosecutors in the US.
    Comey's statement made us all privy so no specific expertise required. He isn't a liar but a man stuck between a rock and a hard place. Hillary is the liar and her actions compromised your national security.
    Sounds like you are calling him corrupt, derelict in his duty and dare I say... grossly negligent? Funny how you can show some empathy towards him.
    Well he just announced that he will appear before a house committee tomorrow to answer questions on the matter. There could be some more shoes to drop.
    An investigation of the investigation.

    When the GOP doesn't get the answer they want they hold hearings so that their sound bites become news fodder on Faux News. Pathetic.
    did you really expect anything else from these assholes?

    this is going to be benghazi on steroids with all of these investigations.

    cue special prosecutor now.

    kenn starr is out of a job, maybe they can dust him off and make him special prosecutor?
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,972

    The FBI director left the decision up to the American People. He knew that if he recommended criminal charges that the politics surrounding this would get in the way. He pretty much destroyed any credibility of HRC words that she has said over the past year + that she has not sent classified emails and then walking it back saying she never sent anything marked classified. It is now in the hands of the voter. Do you trust the billionaire who gets a too loose with his lips in remarks or do you trust the career politician who has a track record of lying to the American people?

    Absolutely not! No way does Hillary get my vote. And, of course, neither does the unqualified pseudo-republican pseudo-"politician" either. What an awful presidential election this is turning out to be. By far, the worst of the dozen or so I've had the opportunity to participate in.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,828

    The FBI director left the decision up to the American People. He knew that if he recommended criminal charges that the politics surrounding this would get in the way. He pretty much destroyed any credibility of HRC words that she has said over the past year + that she has not sent classified emails and then walking it back saying she never sent anything marked classified. It is now in the hands of the voter. Do you trust the billionaire who gets a too loose with his lips in remarks or do you trust the career politician who has a track record of lying to the American people?

    Or do you vote for the candidate who lies about charitable giving, wants to remove citizenship from millions of Americans, rips off the contractors that worked for him and has created entire businesses based on fraud (Trump University) along with a myriad of other horrible things he has done..

    Hmm.. 100 classified emails or wholesale fraud... hmmm.. which way should I go...
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    PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo Face Posts: 6,499
    mrussel1 said:

    The FBI director left the decision up to the American People. He knew that if he recommended criminal charges that the politics surrounding this would get in the way. He pretty much destroyed any credibility of HRC words that she has said over the past year + that she has not sent classified emails and then walking it back saying she never sent anything marked classified. It is now in the hands of the voter. Do you trust the billionaire who gets a too loose with his lips in remarks or do you trust the career politician who has a track record of lying to the American people?

    Or do you vote for the candidate who lies about charitable giving, wants to remove citizenship from millions of Americans, rips off the contractors that worked for him and has created entire businesses based on fraud (Trump University) along with a myriad of other horrible things he has done..

    Hmm.. 100 classified emails or wholesale fraud... hmmm.. which way should I go...
    Neither...Gary Johnson :)
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    jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    brianlux said:

    The FBI director left the decision up to the American People. He knew that if he recommended criminal charges that the politics surrounding this would get in the way. He pretty much destroyed any credibility of HRC words that she has said over the past year + that she has not sent classified emails and then walking it back saying she never sent anything marked classified. It is now in the hands of the voter. Do you trust the billionaire who gets a too loose with his lips in remarks or do you trust the career politician who has a track record of lying to the American people?

    Absolutely not! No way does Hillary get my vote. And, of course, neither does the unqualified pseudo-republican pseudo-"politician" either. What an awful presidential election this is turning out to be. By far, the worst of the dozen or so I've had the opportunity to participate in.
    I'm a couple of election cycles behind you, Brian, and I agree. Just awful choices. But I've come to expect that. Once again, neither major party candidate will be getting my vote. Crooked Hillary vs Racist/Misogynist Trump looks like a no-win proposition. I see Hillary as the lesser of two evils, but not "lesser" enough to deserve my vote.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
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    Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 18,164
    I'm fine with Hillary. I really don't understand the hatred that she gets along with the "lying/crooked" comments.

    She is miles above Trump.

    I don't mind Johnson as an individual....but Libertarians just don't make sense.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
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    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,828

    I'm fine with Hillary. I really don't understand the hatred that she gets along with the "lying/crooked" comments.

    She is miles above Trump.

    I don't mind Johnson as an individual....but Libertarians just don't make sense.

    That's right. Many libertarian policies, in practice, will not work. Gary seems like a fine man, but he came off as underwhelming, at best, during the CNN forum given to him and Weld. He seemed to just defer to Weld.

    99% of the shit against HRC is just smears and twisting of facts.
  • Options
    PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo Face Posts: 6,499
    edited July 2016
    mrussel1 said:

    I'm fine with Hillary. I really don't understand the hatred that she gets along with the "lying/crooked" comments.

    She is miles above Trump.

    I don't mind Johnson as an individual....but Libertarians just don't make sense.

    That's right. Many libertarian policies, in practice, will not work. Gary seems like a fine man, but he came off as underwhelming, at best, during the CNN forum given to him and Weld. He seemed to just defer to Weld.

    99% of the shit against HRC is just smears and twisting of facts.
    Funny, seems to me that anything coming FROM HRC is also just smears and twisted facts.
  • Options
    PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo Face Posts: 6,499
    edited July 2016
    mrussel1 said:

    I'm fine with Hillary. I really don't understand the hatred that she gets along with the "lying/crooked" comments.

    She is miles above Trump.

    I don't mind Johnson as an individual....but Libertarians just don't make sense.

    That's right. Many libertarian policies, in practice, will not work. Gary seems like a fine man, but he came off as underwhelming, at best, during the CNN forum given to him and Weld. He seemed to just defer to Weld.

    99% of the shit against HRC is just smears and twisting of facts.
    Because things that have been in practice are running so smoothly now, lol. What policies that he has presented are you referring to?
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    KatKat There's a lot to be said for nowhere. Posts: 4,780
    And the circus continues. Director Comey was a special counsel on the Whitewater investigation and he's 0-2 now. He didn't give the final answer the GOP wanted so now it's more testimony, etc., to keep the circus going. It's sad and ridiculous and has been going on for decades. Enough.
    Falling down,...not staying down
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    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,828
    PJPOWER said:

    mrussel1 said:

    I'm fine with Hillary. I really don't understand the hatred that she gets along with the "lying/crooked" comments.

    She is miles above Trump.

    I don't mind Johnson as an individual....but Libertarians just don't make sense.

    That's right. Many libertarian policies, in practice, will not work. Gary seems like a fine man, but he came off as underwhelming, at best, during the CNN forum given to him and Weld. He seemed to just defer to Weld.

    99% of the shit against HRC is just smears and twisting of facts.
    Because things that have been in practice are running so smoothly now, lol. What policies that he has presented are you referring to?
    1. They are against civil forfeiture of property. This is a necessary tool for both creditors and government.
    2. They are against rent controls, minimum wage, government floors and ceilings on products. If I need to explain the negative net effect of these policies, then that's a whole different discussion.
    3. They generally believe that the invisible hand of the market should protect the environment. They do not believe the gov't has any part of it.
    4. Abolishing the fed income tax and the IRS. Not really sure who is going to pay for defense but hey, it sounds good. I guess the alternate is a use tax approaching 32% (before state sales tax). But that disproportionately benefits the wealthy and will destroy the middle class

    These are just four easy things to take issue with on the economic side. Liberals get drawn to Libertarians due to the freedom of the individual piece of the platform (abortion, drug use, no death penalty, etc.) but the economic side is a conservatives wet dream. I'm a social liberal and economic moderate, and they go way too far for me.
  • Options
    Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 18,164
    PJPOWER said:

    mrussel1 said:

    I'm fine with Hillary. I really don't understand the hatred that she gets along with the "lying/crooked" comments.

    She is miles above Trump.

    I don't mind Johnson as an individual....but Libertarians just don't make sense.

    That's right. Many libertarian policies, in practice, will not work. Gary seems like a fine man, but he came off as underwhelming, at best, during the CNN forum given to him and Weld. He seemed to just defer to Weld.

    99% of the shit against HRC is just smears and twisting of facts.
    Funny, seems to me that anything coming FROM HRC is also just smears and twisted facts.
    That's just ignorant. You hate her because Faux News tells you to hate her.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
  • Options
    Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 18,164
    PJPOWER said:

    mrussel1 said:

    I'm fine with Hillary. I really don't understand the hatred that she gets along with the "lying/crooked" comments.

    She is miles above Trump.

    I don't mind Johnson as an individual....but Libertarians just don't make sense.

    That's right. Many libertarian policies, in practice, will not work. Gary seems like a fine man, but he came off as underwhelming, at best, during the CNN forum given to him and Weld. He seemed to just defer to Weld.

    99% of the shit against HRC is just smears and twisting of facts.
    Because things that have been in practice are running so smoothly now, lol. What policies that he has presented are you referring to?
    He's a libertarian...review the libertarian platform. Basically anarchy. They match the liberals on social matters but are complete idiots on economic policy.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
  • Options
    Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,786

    PJPOWER said:

    mrussel1 said:

    I'm fine with Hillary. I really don't understand the hatred that she gets along with the "lying/crooked" comments.

    She is miles above Trump.

    I don't mind Johnson as an individual....but Libertarians just don't make sense.

    That's right. Many libertarian policies, in practice, will not work. Gary seems like a fine man, but he came off as underwhelming, at best, during the CNN forum given to him and Weld. He seemed to just defer to Weld.

    99% of the shit against HRC is just smears and twisting of facts.
    Funny, seems to me that anything coming FROM HRC is also just smears and twisted facts.
    That's just ignorant. You hate her because Faux News tells you to hate her.
    Which is fair....because every other news organization tell you to love her.
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden

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  • Options
    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,828

    PJPOWER said:

    mrussel1 said:

    I'm fine with Hillary. I really don't understand the hatred that she gets along with the "lying/crooked" comments.

    She is miles above Trump.

    I don't mind Johnson as an individual....but Libertarians just don't make sense.

    That's right. Many libertarian policies, in practice, will not work. Gary seems like a fine man, but he came off as underwhelming, at best, during the CNN forum given to him and Weld. He seemed to just defer to Weld.

    99% of the shit against HRC is just smears and twisting of facts.
    Because things that have been in practice are running so smoothly now, lol. What policies that he has presented are you referring to?
    He's a libertarian...review the libertarian platform. Basically anarchy. They match the liberals on social matters but are complete idiots on economic policy.
    Here here. See my post above. It's all about the invisible hand of the market, when we have seen through 500 years of experience, that although the market may act rationally in the long term, it does not always in the short term, and cannot be trusted to operate unabated.
  • Options
    PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo Face Posts: 6,499
    Kat said:

    And the circus continues. Director Comey was a special counsel on the Whitewater investigation and he's 0-2 now. He didn't give the final answer the GOP wanted so now it's more testimony, etc., to keep the circus going. It's sad and ridiculous and has been going on for decades. Enough.

    That and now there may be new charges of perjury based on her statements that she "turned over all emails" during the Benghazi trial when this FBI investigation clearly showed that there were "several thousand" work related emails that were not "turned over". She most definitely has her table full...
  • Options
    Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 18,164

    PJPOWER said:

    mrussel1 said:

    I'm fine with Hillary. I really don't understand the hatred that she gets along with the "lying/crooked" comments.

    She is miles above Trump.

    I don't mind Johnson as an individual....but Libertarians just don't make sense.

    That's right. Many libertarian policies, in practice, will not work. Gary seems like a fine man, but he came off as underwhelming, at best, during the CNN forum given to him and Weld. He seemed to just defer to Weld.

    99% of the shit against HRC is just smears and twisting of facts.
    Funny, seems to me that anything coming FROM HRC is also just smears and twisted facts.
    That's just ignorant. You hate her because Faux News tells you to hate her.
    Which is fair....because every other news organization tell you to love her.
    Horseshit....they all focused on the "careless disregard" comments from the FBI without giving any explanation or counterpoint.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
  • Options
    Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 18,164
    PJPOWER said:

    Kat said:

    And the circus continues. Director Comey was a special counsel on the Whitewater investigation and he's 0-2 now. He didn't give the final answer the GOP wanted so now it's more testimony, etc., to keep the circus going. It's sad and ridiculous and has been going on for decades. Enough.

    That and now there may be new charges of perjury based on her statements that she "turned over all emails" during the Benghazi trial when this FBI investigation clearly showed that there were "several thousand" work related emails that were not "turned over". She most definitely has her table full...
    Horseshit....the FBI said there were many deleted emails that were deleted in the course of keeping ones inbox tidy. There was no evidence that emails were removed from the internal system. Also...there was no evidence that the other side of the emails were directed to be deleted. There is always a sender and receiver you know.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
  • Options
    Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 18,164
    mrussel1 said:

    PJPOWER said:

    mrussel1 said:

    I'm fine with Hillary. I really don't understand the hatred that she gets along with the "lying/crooked" comments.

    She is miles above Trump.

    I don't mind Johnson as an individual....but Libertarians just don't make sense.

    That's right. Many libertarian policies, in practice, will not work. Gary seems like a fine man, but he came off as underwhelming, at best, during the CNN forum given to him and Weld. He seemed to just defer to Weld.

    99% of the shit against HRC is just smears and twisting of facts.
    Because things that have been in practice are running so smoothly now, lol. What policies that he has presented are you referring to?
    He's a libertarian...review the libertarian platform. Basically anarchy. They match the liberals on social matters but are complete idiots on economic policy.
    Here here. See my post above. It's all about the invisible hand of the market, when we have seen through 500 years of experience, that although the market may act rationally in the long term, it does not always in the short term, and cannot be trusted to operate unabated.
    Yeah their economic policy is likely worse the the GOP "trickle down" theory....we know both are failures.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
  • Options
    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,828

    mrussel1 said:

    PJPOWER said:

    mrussel1 said:

    I'm fine with Hillary. I really don't understand the hatred that she gets along with the "lying/crooked" comments.

    She is miles above Trump.

    I don't mind Johnson as an individual....but Libertarians just don't make sense.

    That's right. Many libertarian policies, in practice, will not work. Gary seems like a fine man, but he came off as underwhelming, at best, during the CNN forum given to him and Weld. He seemed to just defer to Weld.

    99% of the shit against HRC is just smears and twisting of facts.
    Because things that have been in practice are running so smoothly now, lol. What policies that he has presented are you referring to?
    He's a libertarian...review the libertarian platform. Basically anarchy. They match the liberals on social matters but are complete idiots on economic policy.
    Here here. See my post above. It's all about the invisible hand of the market, when we have seen through 500 years of experience, that although the market may act rationally in the long term, it does not always in the short term, and cannot be trusted to operate unabated.
    Yeah their economic policy is likely worse the the GOP "trickle down" theory....we know both are failures.
    How many people would vote for the Libertarian when they find out that one of the key tenants of their plank would eliminate the mortgage interest deduction on their taxes? So instead of paying 16-20% income tax rate, they would be forced to pay 30-40% on every purchase...car, home, groceries, etc. Yeah.. that'll win some votes.
  • Options
    PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo Face Posts: 6,499
    mrussel1 said:

    mrussel1 said:

    PJPOWER said:

    mrussel1 said:

    I'm fine with Hillary. I really don't understand the hatred that she gets along with the "lying/crooked" comments.

    She is miles above Trump.

    I don't mind Johnson as an individual....but Libertarians just don't make sense.

    That's right. Many libertarian policies, in practice, will not work. Gary seems like a fine man, but he came off as underwhelming, at best, during the CNN forum given to him and Weld. He seemed to just defer to Weld.

    99% of the shit against HRC is just smears and twisting of facts.
    Because things that have been in practice are running so smoothly now, lol. What policies that he has presented are you referring to?
    He's a libertarian...review the libertarian platform. Basically anarchy. They match the liberals on social matters but are complete idiots on economic policy.
    Here here. See my post above. It's all about the invisible hand of the market, when we have seen through 500 years of experience, that although the market may act rationally in the long term, it does not always in the short term, and cannot be trusted to operate unabated.
    Yeah their economic policy is likely worse the the GOP "trickle down" theory....we know both are failures.
    How many people would vote for the Libertarian when they find out that one of the key tenants of their plank would eliminate the mortgage interest deduction on their taxes? So instead of paying 16-20% income tax rate, they would be forced to pay 30-40% on every purchase...car, home, groceries, etc. Yeah.. that'll win some votes.
    Maybe then there would be a little less consumer waste and frivolous spending. At least I would then be able to choose where my income goes.
  • Options
    jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    mrussel1 said:

    PJPOWER said:

    mrussel1 said:

    I'm fine with Hillary. I really don't understand the hatred that she gets along with the "lying/crooked" comments.

    She is miles above Trump.

    I don't mind Johnson as an individual....but Libertarians just don't make sense.

    That's right. Many libertarian policies, in practice, will not work. Gary seems like a fine man, but he came off as underwhelming, at best, during the CNN forum given to him and Weld. He seemed to just defer to Weld.

    99% of the shit against HRC is just smears and twisting of facts.
    Because things that have been in practice are running so smoothly now, lol. What policies that he has presented are you referring to?
    1. They are against civil forfeiture of property. This is a necessary tool for both creditors and government.
    2. They are against rent controls, minimum wage, government floors and ceilings on products. If I need to explain the negative net effect of these policies, then that's a whole different discussion.
    3. They generally believe that the invisible hand of the market should protect the environment. They do not believe the gov't has any part of it.
    4. Abolishing the fed income tax and the IRS. Not really sure who is going to pay for defense but hey, it sounds good. I guess the alternate is a use tax approaching 32% (before state sales tax). But that disproportionately benefits the wealthy and will destroy the middle class

    These are just four easy things to take issue with on the economic side. Liberals get drawn to Libertarians due to the freedom of the individual piece of the platform (abortion, drug use, no death penalty, etc.) but the economic side is a conservatives wet dream. I'm a social liberal and economic moderate, and they go way too far for me.
    Utopia is not an option. That's why I'm not a big L libertarian. I agree that the platform leaves much to be desired, and much of it is impractical or impossible to achieve and much of it simply won't work (given human nature). Johnson isn't an ideal candidate for a number of reasons (including stage presence, and the sound of his voice), but I think I'd rather listen to Johnson speak than Hillary shriek. And I'd rather err on the side of too much liberty, than too much government. Hillary is part of the machine. Why is it that she is constantly shrouded in scandal and always has been? Yes, partly because of the Republican bulldogs trying to make something out of nothing in many cases, but also because she just can't seem to avoid stepping in any dog shit that is remotely in her vicinity. She has always been shady, underhanded and non-transparent.

    Are there flaws in the Dem party platform? Are there flaws in the Dem's candidate? It is always humorous during election cycles to see partisans fighting about the truth and righteousness of their platform or party vis a vis another. To me it is akin to watching religionists disparage each other without any awareness of the irony.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
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    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,828
    ^^Jeff - I don't understand your comment. Was she shady as first lady? Whitewater was total BS and evolved into Lewinsky. Then she was the Senator from NY. What did she do there? Other than this email thing, what did she do that was 'shady and underhanded'? I just don't get it.
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    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,828
    PJPOWER said:

    mrussel1 said:

    mrussel1 said:

    PJPOWER said:

    mrussel1 said:

    I'm fine with Hillary. I really don't understand the hatred that she gets along with the "lying/crooked" comments.

    She is miles above Trump.

    I don't mind Johnson as an individual....but Libertarians just don't make sense.

    That's right. Many libertarian policies, in practice, will not work. Gary seems like a fine man, but he came off as underwhelming, at best, during the CNN forum given to him and Weld. He seemed to just defer to Weld.

    99% of the shit against HRC is just smears and twisting of facts.
    Because things that have been in practice are running so smoothly now, lol. What policies that he has presented are you referring to?
    He's a libertarian...review the libertarian platform. Basically anarchy. They match the liberals on social matters but are complete idiots on economic policy.
    Here here. See my post above. It's all about the invisible hand of the market, when we have seen through 500 years of experience, that although the market may act rationally in the long term, it does not always in the short term, and cannot be trusted to operate unabated.
    Yeah their economic policy is likely worse the the GOP "trickle down" theory....we know both are failures.
    How many people would vote for the Libertarian when they find out that one of the key tenants of their plank would eliminate the mortgage interest deduction on their taxes? So instead of paying 16-20% income tax rate, they would be forced to pay 30-40% on every purchase...car, home, groceries, etc. Yeah.. that'll win some votes.
    Maybe then there would be a little less consumer waste and frivolous spending. At least I would then be able to choose where my income goes.
    Your income would be going to the same place.. taxes. The difference is that we would no longer have a progressive income tax system. When you lose that, the further down the economic chain you go, the more 'taxing' the taxes are on the payers.
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    Dirtie_FrankDirtie_Frank Posts: 1,348
    Here is the bottom line. Classified emails DO NOT belong on a unclassified server. Whether it is state.gov, Gmail.com or HRC.org (Not sure what she used), Classified belongs on classified networks, like sgov or smil. There is a reason these things are not allowed on normal computer networks. Whether it was her or her staff that sent the first email classified, CONFIDENTIAL, SECRET or TOP SECRET, it should have ended then. The sender or receiver should have contacted their Staff Security Officer to report the violation, however they continued on. There continued disregard is what has people pissed, you can call it politics, it is the truth. I have worked for and with the government to know that these things should not have happened or continued. Comey stated it in his speech yesterday that anyone that works with classified should have known this was not allowed. At the very least Clinton and her staff should have their clearance revoked.
    96 Randall's Island II
    98 CAA
    00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
    05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
    06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
    08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
    09 Phillie III
    10 MSG II
    13 Wrigley Field
    16 Phillie II
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    Dirtie_FrankDirtie_Frank Posts: 1,348

    PJPOWER said:

    mrussel1 said:

    I'm fine with Hillary. I really don't understand the hatred that she gets along with the "lying/crooked" comments.

    She is miles above Trump.

    I don't mind Johnson as an individual....but Libertarians just don't make sense.

    That's right. Many libertarian policies, in practice, will not work. Gary seems like a fine man, but he came off as underwhelming, at best, during the CNN forum given to him and Weld. He seemed to just defer to Weld.

    99% of the shit against HRC is just smears and twisting of facts.
    Funny, seems to me that anything coming FROM HRC is also just smears and twisted facts.
    That's just ignorant. You hate her because Faux News tells you to hate her.
    Again you use the "FAUX News" argument. HRC and/or her staff did mishandle classified material, there should be a punishment. I am not saying 10 years in jail, but there should be something. There will not be for the elite like her.
    96 Randall's Island II
    98 CAA
    00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
    05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
    06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
    08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
    09 Phillie III
    10 MSG II
    13 Wrigley Field
    16 Phillie II
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    Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 18,164

    Here is the bottom line. Classified emails DO NOT belong on a unclassified server. Whether it is state.gov, Gmail.com or HRC.org (Not sure what she used), Classified belongs on classified networks, like sgov or smil. There is a reason these things are not allowed on normal computer networks. Whether it was her or her staff that sent the first email classified, CONFIDENTIAL, SECRET or TOP SECRET, it should have ended then. The sender or receiver should have contacted their Staff Security Officer to report the violation, however they continued on. There continued disregard is what has people pissed, you can call it politics, it is the truth. I have worked for and with the government to know that these things should not have happened or continued. Comey stated it in his speech yesterday that anyone that works with classified should have known this was not allowed. At the very least Clinton and her staff should have their clearance revoked.

    Right...so if someone decides to put classified information in a non classified email and does not mark it as such (this was Clinton's argument...that none of the items received or sent were "Marked" classified) then how could they possibly prosecute?

    You can argue that she should have known some information was classified....but how is the receiver to know exactly? As mentioned...a lot of times these people were travelling and it just wasn't possible to use the secure systems.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
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    Dirtie_FrankDirtie_Frank Posts: 1,348

    Here is the bottom line. Classified emails DO NOT belong on a unclassified server. Whether it is state.gov, Gmail.com or HRC.org (Not sure what she used), Classified belongs on classified networks, like sgov or smil. There is a reason these things are not allowed on normal computer networks. Whether it was her or her staff that sent the first email classified, CONFIDENTIAL, SECRET or TOP SECRET, it should have ended then. The sender or receiver should have contacted their Staff Security Officer to report the violation, however they continued on. There continued disregard is what has people pissed, you can call it politics, it is the truth. I have worked for and with the government to know that these things should not have happened or continued. Comey stated it in his speech yesterday that anyone that works with classified should have known this was not allowed. At the very least Clinton and her staff should have their clearance revoked.

    Right...so if someone decides to put classified information in a non classified email and does not mark it as such (this was Clinton's argument...that none of the items received or sent were "Marked" classified) then how could they possibly prosecute?

    You can argue that she should have known some information was classified....but how is the receiver to know exactly? As mentioned...a lot of times these people were travelling and it just wasn't possible to use the secure systems.
    She should have reported it. People who work in classified environments know, especially people who are in charge.

    The compromise of Top Secret information is expected to cause “exceptionally grave damage” to our national security. Hillary Clinton mishandled 8 Top Secret emails with 7 at the Special Access Program level which may include black projects, nuclear info, ect. This is the absolute highest level of our nations guarded secrets.

    Out of the 110 classified emails, 32 chains contained Secret information. This is the second highest classification that could cause “serious damage” to our national security.

    Finally, she mishandled 2,000 additional emails which were up-classified with 8 being classified at the time. These are the lowest level which would still cause irreparable harm and “damage” to our national security if disclosed.
    96 Randall's Island II
    98 CAA
    00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
    05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
    06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
    08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
    09 Phillie III
    10 MSG II
    13 Wrigley Field
    16 Phillie II
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