Hillary won more votes for President

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  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    edited November 2016
    Has anyone seen her concession speech? Pure lack of emotion.
    Post edited by Free on
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    I know I will not be likely to forgive Biden for sitting out.
    He would have crushed the primary and the general.
    Would he be a legendary POTUS? Probably not, but he wouldn't be a national shame.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    edited November 2016
    Free said:

    Has anyone seen her concession speech? Pier lack of emotion.

    Heavy doses of xanax and Hilliary
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    rgambs said:

    I know I will not be likely to forgive Biden for sitting out.
    He would have crushed the primary and the general.
    Would he be a legendary POTUS? Probably not, but he wouldn't be a national shame.

    A deal must have been cut. I wonder what post he was offered?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    Jason P said:

    rgambs said:

    I know I will not be likely to forgive Biden for sitting out.
    He would have crushed the primary and the general.
    Would he be a legendary POTUS? Probably not, but he wouldn't be a national shame.

    A deal must have been cut. I wonder what post he was offered?
    I think he just didn't want to deal with being POTUS, can't blame him for that.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • JimmyVJimmyV Posts: 19,163
    Hillary wasn't selfish. She was ambitious. There is nothing wrong with that. No one rises to the highest office in the land without a healthy dose of ambition.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • rgambs said:

    Jason P said:

    rgambs said:

    I know I will not be likely to forgive Biden for sitting out.
    He would have crushed the primary and the general.
    Would he be a legendary POTUS? Probably not, but he wouldn't be a national shame.

    A deal must have been cut. I wonder what post he was offered?
    I think he just didn't want to deal with being POTUS, can't blame him for that.
    I don't think that with regards to Biden, people are factoring in how devastated he is over the loss of his son. I think this was the end of his public office career regardless. I know he was floated as SoS for Clinton, but that was shot down very quickly. I think that got floated out there strategically to draw in some votes.
  • JimmyVJimmyV Posts: 19,163
    I knew she was a flawed candidate. I knew she was an uninspiring candidate. I didn't think it would matter. I never figured independents and late deciders would break for Trump. I thought she would coast against a controversial and unqualified opponent in 2016, crush him actually, before being crushed herself in 2020. I was wrong. So many of us were wrong.

    Hindsight is what it is. This is an election that many on the left will be arguing for years. What happened? Why? But Democrats cannot and should not pretend that Hillary's glaring weaknesses as a candidate, despite all her qualifications in other areas, are only now visible via hindsight. Many of us in the big tent of Obama's coalition saw them. They were visible and they were knowable. The DNC didn't care. The Democratic Establishment didn't care.

    There is much blame to go around for the rise of President Trump. No one group is solely to blame. Americans who voted for him, the lion's share of fault for these next four years will fall squarely on you. The media who completely abdicated their responsibility to responsibly report in a misguided quest for ratings, there is blood on your hands, too. The RNC, the Republican field, the Republican Party, all of them were unwilling to stop Trump when they had the chance.

    If it were just those groups this would still feel bad but not devastating the way it has thus far. But those groups are not alone. The Democratic Party is right their alongside them. Both parties were reckless in 2016. Both parties played fast and loose with rules and political norms. Now the worst possible outcome has come to pass.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • what dreamswhat dreams Posts: 1,761
    edited November 2016


    And the sexism continues . . . A woman, guilty of not being emotional enough.
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617



    And the sexism continues . . . A woman, guilty of not being emotional enough.

    substitute human for emotional
  • JimmyVJimmyV Posts: 19,163
    There are many reasons why Hillary Clinton lost. Sexism is certainly one of them, but it is far from the only one.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    JC29856 said:



    And the sexism continues . . . A woman, guilty of not being emotional enough.

    substitute human for emotional
    Exactly.
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    JimmyV said:

    I knew she was a flawed candidate. I knew she was an uninspiring candidate. I didn't think it would matter. I never figured independents and late deciders would break for Trump. I thought she would coast against a controversial and unqualified opponent in 2016, crush him actually, before being crushed herself in 2020. I was wrong. So many of us were wrong.

    Hindsight is what it is. This is an election that many on the left will be arguing for years. What happened? Why? But Democrats cannot and should not pretend that Hillary's glaring weaknesses as a candidate, despite all her qualifications in other areas, are only now visible via hindsight. Many of us in the big tent of Obama's coalition saw them. They were visible and they were knowable. The DNC didn't care. The Democratic Establishment didn't care.

    There is much blame to go around for the rise of President Trump. No one group is solely to blame. Americans who voted for him, the lion's share of fault for these next four years will fall squarely on you. The media who completely abdicated their responsibility to responsibly report in a misguided quest for ratings, there is blood on your hands, too. The RNC, the Republican field, the Republican Party, all of them were unwilling to stop Trump when they had the chance.

    If it were just those groups this would still feel bad but not devastating the way it has thus far. But those groups are not alone. The Democratic Party is right their alongside them. Both parties were reckless in 2016. Both parties played fast and loose with rules and political norms. Now the worst possible outcome has come to pass.

    This, all of it.
  • So was Hillary just immensely selfish in forcing herself on the Democratic Party when she knew she was divisive and flawed candidate?

    I can't imagine she "knew" she was flawed and so hated. why throw away 2 years of your life (AGAIN) if you didn't think you could win?
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • Free said:

    So was Hillary just immensely selfish in forcing herself on the Democratic Party when she knew she was divisive and flawed candidate?

    Or was the Democratic Party immensely selfish and flawed when pushing her as the candidate and pushing Sanders out? Sanders had a better chance of beating Trump and we knew it.
    we all keep saying that, and I believe(d) it as well. But did he really? I mean, we all thought Hillary was going to smash him in the election too. What makes us think we were right about Bernie?
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • Free said:

    Has anyone seen her concession speech? Pure lack of emotion.

    I thought she was on the brink of tears a few times, to be honest with you. Can you imagine having to make that speech? how much of a failure you'd feel? how many millions of people you let down?
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617

    So was Hillary just immensely selfish in forcing herself on the Democratic Party when she knew she was divisive and flawed candidate?

    I can't imagine she "knew" she was flawed and so hated. why throw away 2 years of your life (AGAIN) if you didn't think you could win?
    Either she knew and was confident in the gameplan and system or she didn't listen to anyone close to her.
    Her closest advisors made repeated references to her likability in those Russian hacked stolen doctored Podesta emails.
  • JC29856 said:

    So was Hillary just immensely selfish in forcing herself on the Democratic Party when she knew she was divisive and flawed candidate?

    I can't imagine she "knew" she was flawed and so hated. why throw away 2 years of your life (AGAIN) if you didn't think you could win?
    Either she knew and was confident in the gameplan and system or she didn't listen to anyone close to her.
    Her closest advisors made repeated references to her likability in those Russian hacked stolen doctored Podesta emails.
    gotcha. I stayed away from that thread.
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com






  • And the sexism continues . . . A woman, guilty of not being emotional enough.

    Or being too ambitious.
    I'm through with screaming
  • Two thoughts on Hillary....

    1) She just isn't a very good politician. You can have great ideas and experience and all that...but you have to connect with people. That's why Bill Clinton is considered (even by Republicans that hate him) to be one of the best politicians ever. He connected. There's a reason Hillary lost to Obama (a complete nobody at the time), struggled against Bernie Sanders (who had no business doing as well in the primary as he did) and now lost to Trump. All three of those guys have charisma. People wanted to go see their rallies, wanted to watch their TV interviews, wanted to get in fiery arguments with people that supported their opponents. People were invested in those three.

    2) I am sick and tired of hearing about sexism being a reason for her loss. I'd argue that being a woman was all she really had going for her. Pretend she was a man for a moment; a man with no charisma, under federal investigation, considered by many to be the third term of a president with waning popularity, being pushed down the throat of the public by the DNC machine. Does she have a chance? Probably not.

    Also, let's not forget that she WON THE POPULAR VOTE meaning she got the vote of millions of men (including myself). So all the men that voted for her are good men and all those that didn't are sexist? That's bullshit. You can't have it both ways. You can't talk about "making history" cause she's a female candidate and then scold people for not voting for her "because she's a woman." ESPECIALLY considering there were probably millions of people that voted for her BECAUSE she's a woman.
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024Philly 2

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • JimmyVJimmyV Posts: 19,163
    If you are blaming her loss on sexism you are reaching. It was a factor. It was far from the deciding factor.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    JimmyV said:

    If you are blaming her loss on sexism you are reaching. It was a factor. It was far from the deciding factor.

    It was her election to lose and she did a wonderful job at it...BIGLY!
  • what dreamswhat dreams Posts: 1,761
    I'm not blaming her loss on sexism. I'm calling people out for expecting things of women they would never expect of men. If all you can say of her speech is that she didn't cry, you are completely incapable of hearing anything else she has to say.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,937



    And the sexism continues . . . A woman, guilty of not being emotional enough.

    Yup.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • JimmyVJimmyV Posts: 19,163

    I'm not blaming her loss on sexism. I'm calling people out for expecting things of women they would never expect of men. If all you can say of her speech is that she didn't cry, you are completely incapable of hearing anything else she has to say.

    This I agree with.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • I'm not blaming her loss on sexism. I'm calling people out for expecting things of women they would never expect of men. If all you can say of her speech is that she didn't cry, you are completely incapable of hearing anything else she has to say.

    Not saying you were. Some people around the country (or at least on my facebook feed) have noted sexism as a reason for her loss and that's stupid. As for her concession speech. I thought it was pretty by-the-book. No different than Romney's, McCain's, Kerry's, or any other presidential loser.
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024Philly 2

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    edited November 2016
    She looked angry in the speech. I thought she was going to yell 'motherfuckers stop clapping!" at the beginning.

    I can't blame her. She has spent the last 16 years preparing to win only to be undone by a reality TV star that spent the last year spouting outrageous shit.
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617

    I'm not blaming her loss on sexism. I'm calling people out for expecting things of women they would never expect of men. If all you can say of her speech is that she didn't cry, you are completely incapable of hearing anything else she has to say.

    I don't see the word "cry" anywhere.
  • I feel that Hillary would have won if Bernie Sanders was her running mate. People got excited for Bernie. It's safe to assume that a portion of Bernie's supporters either didn't vote for Hillary or voted for Trump. That's important to remember: there were a lot of similarities between Sanders and Trump. CERTAINLY not in policy or rhetoric, but they definitely got people emotionally invested in their campaign, and both had kind of an "outsider" status (despite, oddly, Bernie being in Washington since 1991). I dunno. This election was as close as close can be. And where Tim Kaine contributed absolutely nothing...Sanders might have made a difference. I also think Hillary and Bernie showing they can work together and compromise on their disagreements would have contrasted well with Trump's "I'm right, everybody else is wrong attitude. With the benefit of hindsight, I bet she would have tapped Bernie. But when it was time to choose a running mate, she felt that Trump wasn't going to be a threat.
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024Philly 2

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138

    I feel that Hillary would have won if Bernie Sanders was her running mate. People got excited for Bernie. It's safe to assume that a portion of Bernie's supporters either didn't vote for Hillary or voted for Trump. That's important to remember: there were a lot of similarities between Sanders and Trump. CERTAINLY not in policy or rhetoric, but they definitely got people emotionally invested in their campaign, and both had kind of an "outsider" status (despite, oddly, Bernie being in Washington since 1991). I dunno. This election was as close as close can be. And where Tim Kaine contributed absolutely nothing...Sanders might have made a difference. I also think Hillary and Bernie showing they can work together and compromise on their disagreements would have contrasted well with Trump's "I'm right, everybody else is wrong attitude. With the benefit of hindsight, I bet she would have tapped Bernie. But when it was time to choose a running mate, she felt that Trump wasn't going to be a threat.

    I think she was mad at Bernie for not dropping out early. Kaine was a puzzling choice. I think she picked him because he didn't have any baggage that could be used by the GOP to attack so she picked the most boring person available.
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