I watched WWII in HD a few times. It documents the stories of eight individuals throughout the course of the war. Amy Smart, LL Cool J, Rob Lowe, Ron Livingston and Rob Cordry are some of the actors that contributed to it and the program was narrated by Gary Sinese.
The producers spent years collecting newsreel footage and frontline film to piece together a masterpiece. It was free on Amazon Prime and Netflix.
Definitely worth watching, IMO.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
No worries but I knew there were only two. I thought you might have signed up for a Glen Beck history lesson. Facts are important in conversations and debates, particularly for the lurkers who may not participate or search for answers or question what's posted. All good.
The vet I interviewed approved of both bombings. What could I have said? As mentioned earlier, I was emotionally spent and asking myself many questions and challenging my beliefs. Looking back, it's made me realize that war should be a last resort and not the first option, among many other thoughts.
The only people who would choose war as a first option are those who have no qualms about using their superior strength to crush a weak opponent. I would suggest that such people are those who cause the majority of civilian deaths.
From my perspective, the aggressors that turn to war as a solution for their problems are often groups of people who have felt persecuted, victimized or oppressed by existing political structures or other countries. It just takes a charismatic leader and the threat of further oppression to mobilize a population to support aggression.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
No worries but I knew there were only two. I thought you might have signed up for a Glen Beck history lesson. Facts are important in conversations and debates, particularly for the lurkers who may not participate or search for answers or question what's posted. All good.
The vet I interviewed approved of both bombings. What could I have said? As mentioned earlier, I was emotionally spent and asking myself many questions and challenging my beliefs. Looking back, it's made me realize that war should be a last resort and not the first option, among many other thoughts.
The only people who would choose war as a first option are those who have no qualms about using their superior strength to crush a weak opponent. I would suggest that such people are those who cause the majority of civilian deaths.
From my perspective, the aggressors that turn to war as a solution for their problems are often groups of people who have felt persecuted, victimized or oppressed by existing political structures or other countries. It just takes a charismatic leader and the threat of further oppression to mobilize a population to support aggression.
The threat of the terrorists coming to get us with WMD's. The previous administration played the "get them before they get us" card. It's no secret that the US has financial interests in the Middle East, but the government used fear of further terrorist attacks to build support for military action.
Before that there was the threat of the Communists trying to take over the world.
Fear is a powerful motivator.
Post edited by dudeman on
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
i think any time anything drastic occurs that upends the sociopolitical status quo, war is always a possiblt result. world war I it was an assassination. world war II hitler became fuhrer and he started claiming land for germany. some of it was given to him, he tried to take the rest through war.
If England and France weren't so pissed off many they could have been a little more chill when drafting the treaty of Versailles. (But who could blame them)
yeah i always thought that treaty was very heavy handed. but many people would argue that germany deserved that treaty.
Germany definitely deserved it but no harshness within the treat of versailles no hitter and probably no ww2 to the scale it was at. Japan would have probably started something in the pacific but I think Europe would have sat it out.
I strongly believe stating that Versailles has single handily given Hitler the victory in 1933 is very much a simplification of the actual facts. Lots of different reasons have contributed to his election. A main reason for sure will be Versailles, but also (once again) the growing antisemitism, since 1880's in Central Europe.
Since 1850 the Jewish population in Central Europe, especially in Vienna, Austria. In the years before 1850 the antisemitism had never been far off in Europe, Pogroms took place in almost every generation. So when the government around the 1850 became more liberal and the pogroms seem to become history, many Jews came forward, integrated into the host society, and became the cultural and financial upper class, many of them reformed to Christianity and married non-Jews. The old segregated Jewish settlements in Central Europe became more and more part of society. they became the new upper class in at least cultural but all so often financial means. The resistance against this new upper class began in Austria but soon spread to the Czech Republic, Hungary, Romania, Germany, France, Poland, the Netherlands. Belgium, Russia, etc. etc.
The indigenous population, in particularity the former upper class had been an agrarian elite, but during the industrial revolution, the Jews became the new upper class. As described in this discussion about war, but also in the refugee discussion, when a society feels threatened in its existence they will close ranks, and will look for a scapegoat to blame for their own loss of power, influence and wealth. By consequently blaming the Jews for every setback the indigenous population gained. Many politicians before Hitler used this technique to drill the fear for the Jews into the indigenous population. Nothing works better for a divided population then a common enemy. Hitler didn't bring antisemitism to Europe, he just used the loss of WWI in Germany, and the German violated pride to canalize the already existing antisemitism.
Somehow this all sounds very similar to what is happening at the moment in Europe. Upcoming Nationalism, blaming a common enemy (this time its the Islam (because after WWII its not done to blame the Jews once again, maybe we have learned this hard lesson, for as long as it's lasting). The new form of the far right nationalism, does have great similarities with Nazism. Looking for a scapegoat in an minority, demonizing them and blaming them for everything that's wrong in society. Making second hand citizens out of them. These far right extremists want to shut down the borders of Europe to "defend Europe from the Islamic Tsunami", while the helpless refugees (Not only Islamic Sunnis and Shiites refugees, by the way, but also Christian and Alevis, try to find a safe place to live. This also was happening while the Jews try to find a safe haven elsewhere in Europe and the USA during the time before the outbreak of WWII.
In Europe we still didn't take the full lesson out of history, we still give fear mongers the time and space to divide our society, I hope this time the contending voices will be louder to prevent the groth of this far right movement which divides our societies more and more each day...
Post edited by Aafke on
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Wow. Much to take in, but excellent post, Aafke. Appreciated.
Ahh, well, It has happened to be my thesis for my master in cultural history... Glad to spill my knowledge about the subject somewhere... Because in my daily job I don't use it anymore... Besides I'm convinced that whenever you don't understand where you're coming from, you miss half the understanding what is happening around you, and can't take lessons from the past, avoiding them in the present or future...
Post edited by Aafke on
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
Agree, great post, Aafke. It's dangerous when people want to erase the past - I'm from the south and there's a movement to change the names of schools, Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, try to pretend the Civil War didn't happen. Washington and Lee is a wonderful college - should the name be changed because they were slaveowners? Yes, it's a complicated issue, but you have to deal with it, not hide it.
I posted this earlier, but I'm reading about the rise of concentration camps in Germany and I'm in the mid-30s. So it's less about imprisoning Jews and more about going after communists and Jehovah's Witnesses. And taking angry people who, as you said, are looking for a scapegoat, and - ah ha, let's blame the Jews for everything. So come on, join us, be a Nazi, join the SS.
It's some scary shit. And we think it can't happen again?
Agree, great post, Aafke. It's dangerous when people want to erase the past - I'm from the south and there's a movement to change the names of schools, Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, try to pretend the Civil War didn't happen. Washington and Lee is a wonderful college - should the name be changed because they were slaveowners? Yes, it's a complicated issue, but you have to deal with it, not hide it.
I posted this earlier, but I'm reading about the rise of concentration camps in Germany and I'm in the mid-30s. So it's less about imprisoning Jews and more about going after communists and Jehovah's Witnesses. And taking angry people who, as you said, are looking for a scapegoat, and - ah ha, let's blame the Jews for everything. So come on, join us, be a Nazi, join the SS.
It's some scary shit. And we think it can't happen again?
Thanks again for your post.
Yes, Enkidu, I'm afraid the same tendencies as in the 1930's, are roaming Europe once again. Financial crisis in Europe have the tendency to need a scapegoat to take the blame for it... In the 1930's it were the Jews, now it's the Muslims. The political message is once again the same only the target names has changed. Mozes doesn't do it these days, Osama has done it now a days... In the last two decades, all criminal behavior is blamed on the Muslims, the high unemployment levels are blamed on the Muslims, The immoral change in society is... yep, blamed on the Muslims, The rise in costs of the health insurance, is blamed on the Muslims, because the are so unhygienic they spread diseases etc., etc.
It's unbelievable how the fear and hatred have been evolving the last decades. Maybe we have those kind of feelings as long as Muslims have been coming to work here in the 1060-1970. But in the earlier days, these kinds of open hostilities were not tolerated in society as a whole, since the end of the 1990 this has changed. The Multi- cultural society has been declared bankrupt, and since then the far right has declared it time to call the spade a spade.
In other words fear mongering and discrimination has became once again political strategy, and the fragile balance between different religions and different skin colors, becomes more and more under pressure,
Muslims are more and more becoming second hand subordinate citizens in Europe, as the Jews once were... I'm ashamed to be part of such a society...
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
Agree, great post, Aafke. It's dangerous when people want to erase the past - I'm from the south and there's a movement to change the names of schools, Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, try to pretend the Civil War didn't happen. Washington and Lee is a wonderful college - should the name be changed because they were slaveowners? Yes, it's a complicated issue, but you have to deal with it, not hide it.
I posted this earlier, but I'm reading about the rise of concentration camps in Germany and I'm in the mid-30s. So it's less about imprisoning Jews and more about going after communists and Jehovah's Witnesses. And taking angry people who, as you said, are looking for a scapegoat, and - ah ha, let's blame the Jews for everything. So come on, join us, be a Nazi, join the SS.
It's some scary shit. And we think it can't happen again?
Thanks again for your post.
Yes, Enkidu, I'm afraid the same tendencies as in the 1930's, are roaming Europe once again. Financial crisis in Europe have the tendency to need a scapegoat to take the blame for it... In the 1930's it were the Jews, now it's the Muslims. The political message is once again the same only the target names has changed. Mozes doesn't do it these days, Osama has done it now a days... In the last two decades, all criminal behavior is blamed on the Muslims, the high unemployment levels are blamed on the Muslims, The immoral change in society is... yep, blamed on the Muslims, The rise in costs of the health insurance, is blamed on the Muslims, because the are so unhygienic they spread diseases etc., etc.
It's unbelievable how the fear and hatred have been evolving the last decades. Maybe we have those kind of feelings as long as Muslims have been coming to work here in the 1060-1970. But in the earlier days, these kinds of open hostilities were not tolerated in society as a whole, since the end of the 1990 this has changed. The Multi- cultural society has been declared bankrupt, and since then the far right has declared it time to call the spade a spade.
In other words fear mongering and discrimination has became once again political strategy, and the fragile balance between different religions and different skin colors, becomes more and more under pressure,
Muslims are more and more becoming second hand subordinate citizens in Europe, as the Jews once were... I'm ashamed to be part of such a society...
Sounds like a quote by one of our posters here... Sad.
Agree, great post, Aafke. It's dangerous when people want to erase the past - I'm from the south and there's a movement to change the names of schools, Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, try to pretend the Civil War didn't happen. Washington and Lee is a wonderful college - should the name be changed because they were slaveowners? Yes, it's a complicated issue, but you have to deal with it, not hide it.
I posted this earlier, but I'm reading about the rise of concentration camps in Germany and I'm in the mid-30s. So it's less about imprisoning Jews and more about going after communists and Jehovah's Witnesses. And taking angry people who, as you said, are looking for a scapegoat, and - ah ha, let's blame the Jews for everything. So come on, join us, be a Nazi, join the SS.
It's some scary shit. And we think it can't happen again?
Thanks again for your post.
Yes, Enkidu, I'm afraid the same tendencies as in the 1930's, are roaming Europe once again. Financial crisis in Europe have the tendency to need a scapegoat to take the blame for it... In the 1930's it were the Jews, now it's the Muslims. The political message is once again the same only the target names has changed. Mozes doesn't do it these days, Osama has done it now a days... In the last two decades, all criminal behavior is blamed on the Muslims, the high unemployment levels are blamed on the Muslims, The immoral change in society is... yep, blamed on the Muslims, The rise in costs of the health insurance, is blamed on the Muslims, because the are so unhygienic they spread diseases etc., etc.
It's unbelievable how the fear and hatred have been evolving the last decades. Maybe we have those kind of feelings as long as Muslims have been coming to work here in the 1060-1970. But in the earlier days, these kinds of open hostilities were not tolerated in society as a whole, since the end of the 1990 this has changed. The Multi- cultural society has been declared bankrupt, and since then the far right has declared it time to call the spade a spade.
In other words fear mongering and discrimination has became once again political strategy, and the fragile balance between different religions and different skin colors, becomes more and more under pressure,
Muslims are more and more becoming second hand subordinate citizens in Europe, as the Jews once were... I'm ashamed to be part of such a society...
Sounds like a quote by one of our posters here... Sad.
Band of brothers is awesome; I show three episodes of it when teaching about ww2. Check out saving private next. A lot of vets say that s the movie that comes closest to the real thing. If you want to see what Vietnam was like, go for we were soldiers. Again vets I ve talked to said that s the closest to the real thing.
Will do, thanks
Platoon (in my opinion) is the best Vietnam movie made. The night battle scenes near the end were unreal.
A lot of vets i talked to said there were not that many drugs as portrayed in the movie. But you are right, that last battle at night was freaking awesome.
"I strongly believe stating that Versailles has single handily given Hitler the victory in 1933 is very much a simplification of the actual facts. Lots of different reasons have contributed to his election. A main reason for sure will be Versailles, but also (once again) the growing antisemitism, since 1880's in Central Europe. " Versailles was definitely a huge part of Hitler coming to power. Hitler blamed the jews for the terrible inflation and unemployment in the country thanks to the Treaty of Versailles. But Hitler didn't get into national power by blaming or getting the country to hate the Jews; rather he got a lot of people behind him when he promised people jobs, money and a way out of the depression. After he got into power he of course started multiple genocides which hopefully the world will never forget.
I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,759
Have been watching a load of programmes about WWII since. Really struck by the amount of video footage that was taken, from the planes, the boats and even in the field while engaging the enemy. Unbelievable but such a fantastic record to have
It is good to have a good record of the events of the war. I can't imagine what it must have been like for the front line reporters during some of the bigger operations and battles. Hopefully, the world will never see a war of that scale (or really, any war) again.
Interestingly, the US War Department only issued colored film for the coverage of white fighting units. Black and Asian units were filmed in black and white.
We like to think of the attitude of the US as everyone working together and putting differences aside in order to deal with the war but that wasn't always the case.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
It is good to have a good record of the events of the war. I can't imagine what it must have been like for the front line reporters during some of the bigger operations and battles. Hopefully, the world will never see a war of that scale (or really, any war) again.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Pup's face is priceless when he looks off to the side.
It is good to have a good record of the events of the war. I can't imagine what it must have been like for the front line reporters during some of the bigger operations and battles. Hopefully, the world will never see a war of that scale (or really, any war) again.
Interestingly, the US War Department only issued colored film for the coverage of white fighting units. Black and Asian units were filmed in black and white.
We like to think of the attitude of the US as everyone working together and putting differences aside in order to deal with the war but that wasn't always the case.
I would hope that as many people as possible get to see footage from WWII, as I can't imagine how anyone could see such scenes and not do their utmost to avoid and oppose the instigation of any armed conflict. Programmes like Band of Brothers and the Pacific should been shown in secondary schools (high schools), maybe our future world leaders could be put on the right path...
gramps fought in WWII in the pacific on many islands. Harold had something extra about him that could stop a bus. he did not ever know the word quit or take it easy as he worked at unreal levels. when he poured cement on his property he really poured cement. you could park tanks on his garage foundation it was so thick. the dog kennel his hunting dog's were in had its own draining sewage system.
Harold was built of steel & respected as far as you can see. writing this short bit about him makes my eyes teary. (Harold makes for a fine tattoo)
then you have Harold's only child, our dad. unreal those two
never saw band of brothers but i'll have to change that
I just started watching Band of Brothers today. So far, I would say it's "must see" programming.
Would you believe I actually started watching it again last night, after only finishing it last month. I read the book it was based on since then and decided I needed to watch it again
I just started watching Band of Brothers today. So far, I would say it's "must see" programming.
Would you believe I actually started watching it again last night, after only finishing it last month. I read the book it was based on since then and decided I needed to watch it again
I'm only on episode 6 and I already know I'll buy it on Blu-ray and watch it multiple times. The Pacific is next.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
I just started watching Band of Brothers today. So far, I would say it's "must see" programming.
Would you believe I actually started watching it again last night, after only finishing it last month. I read the book it was based on since then and decided I needed to watch it again
I'm only on episode 6 and I already know I'll buy it on Blu-ray and watch it multiple times. The Pacific is next.
Tha Pacific is amazing but it's even tougher to watch, absolutely brutal to see such a vivid depiction of terrible events. It's certainly harsher and more in your face than Band of Brothers
I just started watching Band of Brothers today. So far, I would say it's "must see" programming.
Would you believe I actually started watching it again last night, after only finishing it last month. I read the book it was based on since then and decided I needed to watch it again
I've watched it over and over. It's amazing how much stuff you catch when you watch it again. Now I want to watch it right now.
The Pacific wasn't nearly as good - I was very disappointed. Not awful, but Band of Brothers really is one of the best things I've ever seen on TV.
I just started watching Band of Brothers today. So far, I would say it's "must see" programming.
Would you believe I actually started watching it again last night, after only finishing it last month. I read the book it was based on since then and decided I needed to watch it again
I've watched it over and over. It's amazing how much stuff you catch when you watch it again. Now I want to watch it right now.
The Pacific wasn't nearly as good - I was very disappointed. Not awful, but Band of Brothers really is one of the best things I've ever seen on TV.
Damien Lewis was a great casting for Band of Brothers, maybe the Pacific lacked that strong central character. I still think it was fairly powerful though
I just started watching Band of Brothers today. So far, I would say it's "must see" programming.
Would you believe I actually started watching it again last night, after only finishing it last month. I read the book it was based on since then and decided I needed to watch it again
I've watched it over and over. It's amazing how much stuff you catch when you watch it again. Now I want to watch it right now.
The Pacific wasn't nearly as good - I was very disappointed. Not awful, but Band of Brothers really is one of the best things I've ever seen on TV.
Damien Lewis was a great casting for Band of Brothers, maybe the Pacific lacked that strong central character. I still think it was fairly powerful though
You know what's funny? I watched The Pacific and I can't remember who was in it. That kid actor who grew up - I can't remember his name. So I agree. Damien Lewis was so great and Ron Livingston and Scott Grimes and Matthew Settle (wow, how do I know this - David Swimmer was a little annoying to me). But I can't tell you a single name from The Pacific. Go figure.
Comments
The producers spent years collecting newsreel footage and frontline film to piece together a masterpiece. It was free on Amazon Prime and Netflix.
Definitely worth watching, IMO.
Before that there was the threat of the Communists trying to take over the world.
Fear is a powerful motivator.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Since 1850 the Jewish population in Central Europe, especially in Vienna, Austria. In the years before 1850 the antisemitism had never been far off in Europe, Pogroms took place in almost every generation. So when the government around the 1850 became more liberal and the pogroms seem to become history, many Jews came forward, integrated into the host society, and became the cultural and financial upper class, many of them reformed to Christianity and married non-Jews. The old segregated Jewish settlements in Central Europe became more and more part of society. they became the new upper class in at least cultural but all so often financial means. The resistance against this new upper class began in Austria but soon spread to the Czech Republic, Hungary, Romania, Germany, France, Poland, the Netherlands. Belgium, Russia, etc. etc.
The indigenous population, in particularity the former upper class had been an agrarian elite, but during the industrial revolution, the Jews became the new upper class. As described in this discussion about war, but also in the refugee discussion, when a society feels threatened in its existence they will close ranks, and will look for a scapegoat to blame for their own loss of power, influence and wealth. By consequently blaming the Jews for every setback the indigenous population gained. Many politicians before Hitler used this technique to drill the fear for the Jews into the indigenous population. Nothing works better for a divided population then a common enemy. Hitler didn't bring antisemitism to Europe, he just used the loss of WWI in Germany, and the German violated pride to canalize the already existing antisemitism.
Somehow this all sounds very similar to what is happening at the moment in Europe. Upcoming Nationalism, blaming a common enemy (this time its the Islam (because after WWII its not done to blame the Jews once again, maybe we have learned this hard lesson, for as long as it's lasting). The new form of the far right nationalism, does have great similarities with Nazism. Looking for a scapegoat in an minority, demonizing them and blaming them for everything that's wrong in society. Making second hand citizens out of them. These far right extremists want to shut down the borders of Europe to "defend Europe from the Islamic Tsunami", while the helpless refugees (Not only Islamic Sunnis and Shiites refugees, by the way, but also Christian and Alevis, try to find a safe place to live. This also was happening while the Jews try to find a safe haven elsewhere in Europe and the USA during the time before the outbreak of WWII.
In Europe we still didn't take the full lesson out of history, we still give fear mongers the time and space to divide our society, I hope this time the contending voices will be louder to prevent the groth of this far right movement which divides our societies more and more each day...
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
Ahh, well, It has happened to be my thesis for my master in cultural history... Glad to spill my knowledge about the subject somewhere... Because in my daily job I don't use it anymore...
Besides I'm convinced that whenever you don't understand where you're coming from, you miss half the understanding what is happening around you, and can't take lessons from the past, avoiding them in the present or future...
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
I posted this earlier, but I'm reading about the rise of concentration camps in Germany and I'm in the mid-30s. So it's less about imprisoning Jews and more about going after communists and Jehovah's Witnesses. And taking angry people who, as you said, are looking for a scapegoat, and - ah ha, let's blame the Jews for everything. So come on, join us, be a Nazi, join the SS.
It's some scary shit. And we think it can't happen again?
Thanks again for your post.
It's unbelievable how the fear and hatred have been evolving the last decades. Maybe we have those kind of feelings as long as Muslims have been coming to work here in the 1060-1970. But in the earlier days, these kinds of open hostilities were not tolerated in society as a whole, since the end of the 1990 this has changed. The Multi- cultural society has been declared bankrupt, and since then the far right has declared it time to call the spade a spade.
In other words fear mongering and discrimination has became once again political strategy, and the fragile balance between different religions and different skin colors, becomes more and more under pressure,
Muslims are more and more becoming second hand subordinate citizens in Europe, as the Jews once were... I'm ashamed to be part of such a society...
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
Versailles was definitely a huge part of Hitler coming to power. Hitler blamed the jews for the terrible inflation and unemployment in the country thanks to the Treaty of Versailles. But Hitler didn't get into national power by blaming or getting the country to hate the Jews; rather he got a lot of people behind him when he promised people jobs, money and a way out of the depression.
After he got into power he of course started multiple genocides which hopefully the world will never forget.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar
http://history.hanover.edu/hhr/99/hhr99_2.html
Interestingly, the US War Department only issued colored film for the coverage of white fighting units. Black and Asian units were filmed in black and white.
We like to think of the attitude of the US as everyone working together and putting differences aside in order to deal with the war but that wasn't always the case.
Harold was built of steel & respected as far as you can see. writing this short bit about him makes my eyes teary. (Harold makes for a fine tattoo)
then you have Harold's only child, our dad. unreal those two
never saw band of brothers but i'll have to change that
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
The Pacific wasn't nearly as good - I was very disappointed. Not awful, but Band of Brothers really is one of the best things I've ever seen on TV.