So I've been reading a brilliant book by Stephen Ambrose called 'Citizen Soldiers'. He gives fantastic accounts from frontline soldiers on both sides and there are some great stories, so I thought I might share a couple with ye that made an impression on me (however small an event)...
Even in the bloody chaos of Falaise, a humane spirit could come over these young men so far from home. Lt. Hans-Heinrich Dibbern, of Panzer Grenadier Regiment 902, set up a roadblock outside Argenten. "From the direction of the American line came an ambulance driving towards us", he remembered. "The driver was obviously lost. When he noticed that he was behind German lines, he slammed on the brakes." Dibbern went to the ambulance. "The driver's face was completely white. He had wounded men he was responsible for. But we told him, 'back out of here and get going - we don't attack the Red Cross'. He quickly disappeared."
An hour or so later, "here comes another Red Cross truck. It pulls up right in front of us. The driver got out, opened the back and took out a crate. He set it down on the street and drove away. We feared a bomb, but nothing happened and we were curious. We opened the box and it was filled with Chesterfield cigarettes."
- Hans-Heinrich Dibbern interview by Hugh Ambrose
Ambrose is my favorite author. Read the victors next.
It's on my list Have Pegasus Bridge and requested D-Day from the library today. Next up for me is Eugene Sledge 'With the Old Breed' though
Dude "with the old breed " is amazing. You won't be able to Put it down. If you want a cool Vietnam read try "the things we carried".
I've read China Marine so kinda doing things backwards with Sledge. Read Robert Leckie's Helmet for My Pillow before that
Think I'll stick with WWII for now, I have much to learn
So I've been reading a brilliant book by Stephen Ambrose called 'Citizen Soldiers'. He gives fantastic accounts from frontline soldiers on both sides and there are some great stories, so I thought I might share a couple with ye that made an impression on me (however small an event)...
Even in the bloody chaos of Falaise, a humane spirit could come over these young men so far from home. Lt. Hans-Heinrich Dibbern, of Panzer Grenadier Regiment 902, set up a roadblock outside Argenten. "From the direction of the American line came an ambulance driving towards us", he remembered. "The driver was obviously lost. When he noticed that he was behind German lines, he slammed on the brakes." Dibbern went to the ambulance. "The driver's face was completely white. He had wounded men he was responsible for. But we told him, 'back out of here and get going - we don't attack the Red Cross'. He quickly disappeared."
An hour or so later, "here comes another Red Cross truck. It pulls up right in front of us. The driver got out, opened the back and took out a crate. He set it down on the street and drove away. We feared a bomb, but nothing happened and we were curious. We opened the box and it was filled with Chesterfield cigarettes."
- Hans-Heinrich Dibbern interview by Hugh Ambrose
Ambrose is my favorite author. Read the victors next.
It's on my list Have Pegasus Bridge and requested D-Day from the library today. Next up for me is Eugene Sledge 'With the Old Breed' though
Dude "with the old breed " is amazing. You won't be able to Put it down. If you want a cool Vietnam read try "the things we carried".
I've read China Marine so kinda doing things backwards with Sledge. Read Robert Leckie's Helmet for My Pillow before that
Think I'll stick with WWII for now, I have much to learn
So I've been reading a brilliant book by Stephen Ambrose called 'Citizen Soldiers'. He gives fantastic accounts from frontline soldiers on both sides and there are some great stories, so I thought I might share a couple with ye that made an impression on me (however small an event)...
Even in the bloody chaos of Falaise, a humane spirit could come over these young men so far from home. Lt. Hans-Heinrich Dibbern, of Panzer Grenadier Regiment 902, set up a roadblock outside Argenten. "From the direction of the American line came an ambulance driving towards us", he remembered. "The driver was obviously lost. When he noticed that he was behind German lines, he slammed on the brakes." Dibbern went to the ambulance. "The driver's face was completely white. He had wounded men he was responsible for. But we told him, 'back out of here and get going - we don't attack the Red Cross'. He quickly disappeared."
An hour or so later, "here comes another Red Cross truck. It pulls up right in front of us. The driver got out, opened the back and took out a crate. He set it down on the street and drove away. We feared a bomb, but nothing happened and we were curious. We opened the box and it was filled with Chesterfield cigarettes."
- Hans-Heinrich Dibbern interview by Hugh Ambrose
Ambrose is my favorite author. Read the victors next.
It's on my list Have Pegasus Bridge and requested D-Day from the library today. Next up for me is Eugene Sledge 'With the Old Breed' though
Dude "with the old breed " is amazing. You won't be able to Put it down. If you want a cool Vietnam read try "the things we carried".
I've read China Marine so kinda doing things backwards with Sledge. Read Robert Leckie's Helmet for My Pillow before that
Think I'll stick with WWII for now, I have much to learn
You have to read about the russian/ German front. Try the author Anthony beevor: Stalingrad or the fall of Berlin 1945. Both books are amazing!
So I've been reading a brilliant book by Stephen Ambrose called 'Citizen Soldiers'. He gives fantastic accounts from frontline soldiers on both sides and there are some great stories, so I thought I might share a couple with ye that made an impression on me (however small an event)...
Even in the bloody chaos of Falaise, a humane spirit could come over these young men so far from home. Lt. Hans-Heinrich Dibbern, of Panzer Grenadier Regiment 902, set up a roadblock outside Argenten. "From the direction of the American line came an ambulance driving towards us", he remembered. "The driver was obviously lost. When he noticed that he was behind German lines, he slammed on the brakes." Dibbern went to the ambulance. "The driver's face was completely white. He had wounded men he was responsible for. But we told him, 'back out of here and get going - we don't attack the Red Cross'. He quickly disappeared."
An hour or so later, "here comes another Red Cross truck. It pulls up right in front of us. The driver got out, opened the back and took out a crate. He set it down on the street and drove away. We feared a bomb, but nothing happened and we were curious. We opened the box and it was filled with Chesterfield cigarettes."
- Hans-Heinrich Dibbern interview by Hugh Ambrose
Ambrose is my favorite author. Read the victors next.
It's on my list Have Pegasus Bridge and requested D-Day from the library today. Next up for me is Eugene Sledge 'With the Old Breed' though
Dude "with the old breed " is amazing. You won't be able to Put it down. If you want a cool Vietnam read try "the things we carried".
I've read China Marine so kinda doing things backwards with Sledge. Read Robert Leckie's Helmet for My Pillow before that
Think I'll stick with WWII for now, I have much to learn
So I've been reading a brilliant book by Stephen Ambrose called 'Citizen Soldiers'. He gives fantastic accounts from frontline soldiers on both sides and there are some great stories, so I thought I might share a couple with ye that made an impression on me (however small an event)...
Even in the bloody chaos of Falaise, a humane spirit could come over these young men so far from home. Lt. Hans-Heinrich Dibbern, of Panzer Grenadier Regiment 902, set up a roadblock outside Argenten. "From the direction of the American line came an ambulance driving towards us", he remembered. "The driver was obviously lost. When he noticed that he was behind German lines, he slammed on the brakes." Dibbern went to the ambulance. "The driver's face was completely white. He had wounded men he was responsible for. But we told him, 'back out of here and get going - we don't attack the Red Cross'. He quickly disappeared."
An hour or so later, "here comes another Red Cross truck. It pulls up right in front of us. The driver got out, opened the back and took out a crate. He set it down on the street and drove away. We feared a bomb, but nothing happened and we were curious. We opened the box and it was filled with Chesterfield cigarettes."
- Hans-Heinrich Dibbern interview by Hugh Ambrose
Ambrose is my favorite author. Read the victors next.
It's on my list Have Pegasus Bridge and requested D-Day from the library today. Next up for me is Eugene Sledge 'With the Old Breed' though
Dude "with the old breed " is amazing. You won't be able to Put it down. If you want a cool Vietnam read try "the things we carried".
I've read China Marine so kinda doing things backwards with Sledge. Read Robert Leckie's Helmet for My Pillow before that
Think I'll stick with WWII for now, I have much to learn
You have to read about the russian/ German front. Try the author Anthony beevor: Stalingrad or the fall of Berlin 1945. Both books are amazing!
I think I find it harder to relate to the stories from the Eastern front as it seemed like both sides were as bad as each other
"A squad to Wilson's right got caught in a minefield. The lieutenant leading it had a leg blown off. Four men who came to help him set off mines, and each lost a leg. Wilson started over to help, but the lieutenant yelled at him to stay back. Then the lieutenant began talking, calmly, to the wounded men around him. One by one, he directed them back over the path they had taken into the minefield. One by one, on hands and knee, dragging a stump, they got out. Then the lieutenant dragged himself out."
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Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,125
After finishing up a meeting this morning a member (customer) came up to me to ask if we had any cabinets. I told him no but I could be wrong in that our store is coming into season and constant change. Anyway this man could talk even though we apparently didn't have what he was looking for. He went on to speak with me and another manager about his participation in WWII. so while he's talking I looked him over in that I'm also a nurse who cares for a WWII vet who is 91. This man had to be 90+ However, he looked no more than 80. I had to ask him how old he was and showed his Army vet ID card and he was also 91. He said he fought in the Pacific for 6 months.
He made me smile not because he loved to crack jokes for the 15 minutes we spoke by I kept thinking if I ever lived to be 90 I liked to be in as apparent good shape as that guy. I hope he's not alone though he said he lost his wife 3 years ago.....we parted and I wished him well and for serving this country.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
After finishing up a meeting this morning a member (customer) came up to me to ask if we had any cabinets. I told him no but I could be wrong in that our store is coming into season and constant change. Anyway this man could talk even though we apparently didn't have what he was looking for. He went on to speak with me and another manager about his participation in WWII. so while he's talking I looked him over in that I'm also a nurse who cares for a WWII vet who is 91. This man had to be 90+ However, he looked no more than 80. I had to ask him how old he was and showed his Army vet ID card and he was also 91. He said he fought in the Pacific for 6 months.
He made me smile not because he loved to crack jokes for the 15 minutes we spoke by I kept thinking if I ever lived to be 90 I liked to be in as apparent good shape as that guy. I hope he's not alone though he said he lost his wife 3 years ago.....we parted and I wished him well and for serving this country.
Peace
Fantastic to hear he has had such a long and evidently healthy life after participating in a most horrific war. Whatever about the Germans, fighting the Japanese must have been an incredibly traumatic experience. I envy you your opportunity to express your gratitude to such a man
So I've been reading a brilliant book by Stephen Ambrose called 'Citizen Soldiers'. He gives fantastic accounts from frontline soldiers on both sides and there are some great stories, so I thought I might share a couple with ye that made an impression on me (however small an event)...
Even in the bloody chaos of Falaise, a humane spirit could come over these young men so far from home. Lt. Hans-Heinrich Dibbern, of Panzer Grenadier Regiment 902, set up a roadblock outside Argenten. "From the direction of the American line came an ambulance driving towards us", he remembered. "The driver was obviously lost. When he noticed that he was behind German lines, he slammed on the brakes." Dibbern went to the ambulance. "The driver's face was completely white. He had wounded men he was responsible for. But we told him, 'back out of here and get going - we don't attack the Red Cross'. He quickly disappeared."
An hour or so later, "here comes another Red Cross truck. It pulls up right in front of us. The driver got out, opened the back and took out a crate. He set it down on the street and drove away. We feared a bomb, but nothing happened and we were curious. We opened the box and it was filled with Chesterfield cigarettes."
- Hans-Heinrich Dibbern interview by Hugh Ambrose
Ambrose is my favorite author. Read the victors next.
It's on my list Have Pegasus Bridge and requested D-Day from the library today. Next up for me is Eugene Sledge 'With the Old Breed' though
Dude "with the old breed " is amazing. You won't be able to Put it down. If you want a cool Vietnam read try "the things we carried".
I've read China Marine so kinda doing things backwards with Sledge. Read Robert Leckie's Helmet for My Pillow before that
Think I'll stick with WWII for now, I have much to learn
So I've been reading a brilliant book by Stephen Ambrose called 'Citizen Soldiers'. He gives fantastic accounts from frontline soldiers on both sides and there are some great stories, so I thought I might share a couple with ye that made an impression on me (however small an event)...
Even in the bloody chaos of Falaise, a humane spirit could come over these young men so far from home. Lt. Hans-Heinrich Dibbern, of Panzer Grenadier Regiment 902, set up a roadblock outside Argenten. "From the direction of the American line came an ambulance driving towards us", he remembered. "The driver was obviously lost. When he noticed that he was behind German lines, he slammed on the brakes." Dibbern went to the ambulance. "The driver's face was completely white. He had wounded men he was responsible for. But we told him, 'back out of here and get going - we don't attack the Red Cross'. He quickly disappeared."
An hour or so later, "here comes another Red Cross truck. It pulls up right in front of us. The driver got out, opened the back and took out a crate. He set it down on the street and drove away. We feared a bomb, but nothing happened and we were curious. We opened the box and it was filled with Chesterfield cigarettes."
- Hans-Heinrich Dibbern interview by Hugh Ambrose
Ambrose is my favorite author. Read the victors next.
It's on my list Have Pegasus Bridge and requested D-Day from the library today. Next up for me is Eugene Sledge 'With the Old Breed' though
Dude "with the old breed " is amazing. You won't be able to Put it down. If you want a cool Vietnam read try "the things we carried".
I've read China Marine so kinda doing things backwards with Sledge. Read Robert Leckie's Helmet for My Pillow before that
Think I'll stick with WWII for now, I have much to learn
You have to read about the russian/ German front. Try the author Anthony beevor: Stalingrad or the fall of Berlin 1945. Both books are amazing!
Don't mean to jump into a post, but it sounds like this is a discussion about books re: WWII. For those catching up with the war and learning, I'd recommend "A Short History of WWII" by James Stokesbury. Think of it as a survey course on the war. It's a good read and keeps things at the high level which is necessary when talking about all the theaters.
For those that like the Eastern Front, I would HIGHLY recommend City of Thieves by David Benioff. You may recognize the name as co-Creator of Game of Thrones, but this is the true story of his grandfather's ordeal as a Russian young man in Leningrad, I believe. Maybe Stalingrad. It reads like a novel but unbelievably riveting.
So I've been reading a brilliant book by Stephen Ambrose called 'Citizen Soldiers'. He gives fantastic accounts from frontline soldiers on both sides and there are some great stories, so I thought I might share a couple with ye that made an impression on me (however small an event)...
Even in the bloody chaos of Falaise, a humane spirit could come over these young men so far from home. Lt. Hans-Heinrich Dibbern, of Panzer Grenadier Regiment 902, set up a roadblock outside Argenten. "From the direction of the American line came an ambulance driving towards us", he remembered. "The driver was obviously lost. When he noticed that he was behind German lines, he slammed on the brakes." Dibbern went to the ambulance. "The driver's face was completely white. He had wounded men he was responsible for. But we told him, 'back out of here and get going - we don't attack the Red Cross'. He quickly disappeared."
An hour or so later, "here comes another Red Cross truck. It pulls up right in front of us. The driver got out, opened the back and took out a crate. He set it down on the street and drove away. We feared a bomb, but nothing happened and we were curious. We opened the box and it was filled with Chesterfield cigarettes."
- Hans-Heinrich Dibbern interview by Hugh Ambrose
Ambrose is my favorite author. Read the victors next.
It's on my list Have Pegasus Bridge and requested D-Day from the library today. Next up for me is Eugene Sledge 'With the Old Breed' though
Dude "with the old breed " is amazing. You won't be able to Put it down. If you want a cool Vietnam read try "the things we carried".
I've read China Marine so kinda doing things backwards with Sledge. Read Robert Leckie's Helmet for My Pillow before that
Think I'll stick with WWII for now, I have much to learn
So I've been reading a brilliant book by Stephen Ambrose called 'Citizen Soldiers'. He gives fantastic accounts from frontline soldiers on both sides and there are some great stories, so I thought I might share a couple with ye that made an impression on me (however small an event)...
Even in the bloody chaos of Falaise, a humane spirit could come over these young men so far from home. Lt. Hans-Heinrich Dibbern, of Panzer Grenadier Regiment 902, set up a roadblock outside Argenten. "From the direction of the American line came an ambulance driving towards us", he remembered. "The driver was obviously lost. When he noticed that he was behind German lines, he slammed on the brakes." Dibbern went to the ambulance. "The driver's face was completely white. He had wounded men he was responsible for. But we told him, 'back out of here and get going - we don't attack the Red Cross'. He quickly disappeared."
An hour or so later, "here comes another Red Cross truck. It pulls up right in front of us. The driver got out, opened the back and took out a crate. He set it down on the street and drove away. We feared a bomb, but nothing happened and we were curious. We opened the box and it was filled with Chesterfield cigarettes."
- Hans-Heinrich Dibbern interview by Hugh Ambrose
Ambrose is my favorite author. Read the victors next.
It's on my list Have Pegasus Bridge and requested D-Day from the library today. Next up for me is Eugene Sledge 'With the Old Breed' though
Dude "with the old breed " is amazing. You won't be able to Put it down. If you want a cool Vietnam read try "the things we carried".
I've read China Marine so kinda doing things backwards with Sledge. Read Robert Leckie's Helmet for My Pillow before that
Think I'll stick with WWII for now, I have much to learn
You have to read about the russian/ German front. Try the author Anthony beevor: Stalingrad or the fall of Berlin 1945. Both books are amazing!
Don't mean to jump into a post, but it sounds like this is a discussion about books re: WWII. For those catching up with the war and learning, I'd recommend "A Short History of WWII" by James Stokesbury. Think of it as a survey course on the war. It's a good read and keeps things at the high level which is necessary when talking about all the theaters.
For those that like the Eastern Front, I would HIGHLY recommend City of Thieves by David Benioff. You may recognize the name as co-Creator of Game of Thrones, but this is the true story of his grandfather's ordeal as a Russian sniper/soldier. It reads like a novel but unbelievably riveting.
Feel free to jump I started this thread as a general discussion on WWII
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Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,125
After finishing up a meeting this morning a member (customer) came up to me to ask if we had any cabinets. I told him no but I could be wrong in that our store is coming into season and constant change. Anyway this man could talk even though we apparently didn't have what he was looking for. He went on to speak with me and another manager about his participation in WWII. so while he's talking I looked him over in that I'm also a nurse who cares for a WWII vet who is 91. This man had to be 90+ However, he looked no more than 80. I had to ask him how old he was and showed his Army vet ID card and he was also 91. He said he fought in the Pacific for 6 months.
He made me smile not because he loved to crack jokes for the 15 minutes we spoke by I kept thinking if I ever lived to be 90 I liked to be in as apparent good shape as that guy. I hope he's not alone though he said he lost his wife 3 years ago.....we parted and I wished him well and for serving this country.
Peace
Fantastic to hear he has had such a long and evidently healthy life after participating in a most horrific war. Whatever about the Germans, fighting the Japanese must have been an incredibly traumatic experience. I envy you your opportunity to express your gratitude to such a man
He's STILL Driving and complained those down here in S Florida who apparently can't drive. He was one cool captivating guy.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Both of my uncles served. One was in 99th infantry and was captured at the Battle of the Bulge. He spent the rest of the war wasting away and almost freezing to death in a German stalag. Ironically it was Stalag 13, which some may remember as the same as Hogan's Heroes. That show annoyed him because he said they never mixed nationalities in prison.
My other uncle was an island hopper in the Marines. He was in Tarawa, Enewetak and others. Tarawa was one of the most notorious of course. My dad (who fought in Korea and was much younger) said that they received a visit from the Marines that Georgie died in Saipan. Well he didn't, it was mistake and they didn't find out for months later. Obviously traumatic for the family.
They both lived into the late 1990's so I got to hear lots of stories growing up. In fact, I wrote an extensive documentary and interview with my Uncle Mike (European theater) while pursuing my history degree and it's in the Florida Historical society museum.
I remember at my dad's funeral in 1994 (the after 'party'). My uncles were there along with a neighbor who was in the Polish undergrounds. They spent four hours arguing who had it worse, and that the others were a bunch of pussies. It was hysterical but so memorable to hear the stories.
I love hearing all the stories and book recommendations. I think I talked about reading KZ, the "definitive" book about concentration camps. Really good, but dense and kind of overwhelming. It led me to a wonderful book called A Lucky Child by Thomas Buergenthal who survived Auschwitz (as a kid) and ended up working as a judge at the International Court of Justice in The Hague.
I love hearing all the stories and book recommendations. I think I talked about reading KZ, the "definitive" book about concentration camps. Really good, but dense and kind of overwhelming. It led me to a wonderful book called A Lucky Child by Thomas Buergenthal who survived Auschwitz (as a kid) and ended up working as a judge at the International Court of Justice in The Hague.
Fatherland... what a fascinating premise and great book. HBO did a move with Rutger Hauer. It was okay. Maybe it was very good, but it paled against the book.
Fatherland... what a fascinating premise and great book. HBO did a move with Rutger Hauer. It was okay. Maybe it was very good, but it paled against the book.
Fatherland is just an awesome book. It's fiction, it's a mystery/thriller, but he's such a good writer and knows his stuff. A simple, but chilling premise - what if Hitler had won the war?
Agree - the movie was okay, but the book is great.
Fatherland... what a fascinating premise and great book. HBO did a move with Rutger Hauer. It was okay. Maybe it was very good, but it paled against the book.
Fatherland is just an awesome book. It's fiction, it's a mystery/thriller, but he's such a good writer and knows his stuff. A simple, but chilling premise - what if Hitler had won the war?
Agree - the movie was okay, but the book is great.
I went on a Robert Harris binge a few years ago. I read the Cicero novels, Imperium, Conspirata, and there was one more that escapes me. They were very, very good. If you haven't read, definitely pick them up.
Both of my uncles served. One was in 99th infantry and was captured at the Battle of the Bulge. He spent the rest of the war wasting away and almost freezing to death in a German stalag. Ironically it was Stalag 13, which some may remember as the same as Hogan's Heroes. That show annoyed him because he said they never mixed nationalities in prison.
My other uncle was an island hopper in the Marines. He was in Tarawa, Enewetak and others. Tarawa was one of the most notorious of course. My dad (who fought in Korea and was much younger) said that they received a visit from the Marines that Georgie died in Saipan. Well he didn't, it was mistake and they didn't find out for months later. Obviously traumatic for the family.
They both lived into the late 1990's so I got to hear lots of stories growing up. In fact, I wrote an extensive documentary and interview with my Uncle Mike (European theater) while pursuing my history degree and it's in the Florida Historical society museum.
I remember at my dad's funeral in 1994 (the after 'party'). My uncles were there along with a neighbor who was in the Polish undergrounds. They spent four hours arguing who had it worse, and that the others were a bunch of pussies. It was hysterical but so memorable to hear the stories.
Glad to hear your uncles lived to ripe old ages Wonderful that you recorded their stories for your degree too, I'm so grateful now to all the historians like Ambrose who spoke to veterans and recorded first hand accounts of the war
Thanks! They led full lives. And Ambrose was a tremendous mainstream historian. Did a great job of popularizing what many feel is a dry subject. Doris Kearns Goodwin is in the same camp.
Fatherland... what a fascinating premise and great book. HBO did a move with Rutger Hauer. It was okay. Maybe it was very good, but it paled against the book.
Fatherland is just an awesome book. It's fiction, it's a mystery/thriller, but he's such a good writer and knows his stuff. A simple, but chilling premise - what if Hitler had won the war?
Agree - the movie was okay, but the book is great.
I went on a Robert Harris binge a few years ago. I read the Cicero novels, Imperium, Conspirata, and there was one more that escapes me. They were very, very good. If you haven't read, definitely pick them up.
I am a total Robert Harris freak. I think I've read everything - I hadn't read Enigma and read that recently. An Officer and a Spy is great too. Ad the 3rd Cicero novel comes out soon - oh, unless it's out in England and I could get it already...
Thanks! They led full lives. And Ambrose was a tremendous mainstream historian. Did a great job of popularizing what many feel is a dry subject. Doris Kearns Goodwin is in the same camp.
It sounds like there's a huge volume of interviews etc at the Eisenhower Centre in Louisiana, well worth a visit I'd say
Watching "Hitler's Death Army: Das Reich". Horrifying footage of mass executions across France, Poland, Belarus and the Ukraine and the resulting mass graves. Further footage of them burning barns in which they had locked the women and children of villages and sprayed with machine gun fire. For a few men like Hitler, Himmler etc to have such evil in their hearts in just about believable but for so many German soldiers to be capable of such inhumanity is terrifying
Watching this, I can understand why there was a policy of killing SS soldiers rather than taking them prisoner
Watching "Hitler's Death Army: Das Reich". Horrifying footage of mass executions across France, Poland, Belarus and the Ukraine and the resulting mass graves. Further footage of them burning barns in which they had locked the women and children of villages and sprayed with machine gun fire. For a few men like Hitler, Himmler etc to have such evil in their hearts in just about believable but for so many German soldiers to be capable of such inhumanity is terrifying
Watching this, I can understand why there was a policy of killing SS soldiers rather than taking them prisoner
You want to read a good book on why these men did what they did?
Ordinary Men.
They were everyday people like you and me. Conditions were such that they fell into full compliance mode. I'm not talking about the architects- I'm talking about the people on the ground and in the front.
Disclaimer: no excuses. Just speaking to your questioning.
Watching "Hitler's Death Army: Das Reich". Horrifying footage of mass executions across France, Poland, Belarus and the Ukraine and the resulting mass graves. Further footage of them burning barns in which they had locked the women and children of villages and sprayed with machine gun fire. For a few men like Hitler, Himmler etc to have such evil in their hearts in just about believable but for so many German soldiers to be capable of such inhumanity is terrifying
Watching this, I can understand why there was a policy of killing SS soldiers rather than taking them prisoner
You want to read a good book on why these men did what they did?
Ordinary Men.
They were everyday people like you and me. Conditions were such that they fell into full compliance mode. I'm not talking about the architects- I'm talking about the people on the ground and in the front.
Disclaimer: no excuses. Just speaking to your questioning.
Surely there are limits to compliance?? At Oradour-sur-Glane they massacred an entire village. They locked 500 women and children in a church and set it on fire. Anyone who tried to get out was riddled with bullets. Only one woman survived and witnessed so many others being burned alive. Who with any humanity could do such things??? I suppose the only claim of defence any of them could have is that they believed that if they disobeyed orders they would be killed themselves. The instinct for self-preservation is the only thing I could understand
It's very objective, written by a scholar, and begins under the same premise you present.
Trust me. I am as mortified as any with regards to the atrocities war presents us. The SS were as bad as it gets, but there was a method to the madness.
With references to multiple psychological and sociological experiments and studies.. the book offers an explanation as to why ordinary men do unordinary things. It doesn't seek to absolve them.
It's very objective, written by a scholar, and begins under the same premise you present.
Trust me. I am as mortified as any with regards to the atrocities war presents us. The SS were as bad as it gets, but there was a method to the madness.
With references to multiple psychological and sociological experiments and studies.. the book offers an explanation as to why ordinary men do unordinary things. It doesn't seek to absolve them.
There's another book around the same vein, except it's focused on the homeland and how the ordinary German people knew what was happening to the Jews and were complicit. It's called "Hitler's Willing Executioners", by Daniel Goldhagen, a Harvard professor. It's very controversial but a powerful read. Many historians disagree with his conclusions though.
Sorry to ramble, but I also had a German professor one year and we were studying the Eastern front. He and his family were part of the group that was forced from Danzig (Gdansk) after the war and the Poles/Soviets took back the port city. He had some horrific stories about the migration back to Germany after the war. Anyway, something he said stuck with me, and that is that the German people are still capable of the sort of "compliance" referred to earlier. It's embedded so deeply in their culture. This was 1995 or so. Things may be different today and I'm not trying to offend anyone. it's just something he believed. He must be 75 now, if still alive.
It's very objective, written by a scholar, and begins under the same premise you present.
Trust me. I am as mortified as any with regards to the atrocities war presents us. The SS were as bad as it gets, but there was a method to the madness.
With references to multiple psychological and sociological experiments and studies.. the book offers an explanation as to why ordinary men do unordinary things. It doesn't seek to absolve them.
Comments
Think I'll stick with WWII for now, I have much to learn
"A squad to Wilson's right got caught in a minefield. The lieutenant leading it had a leg blown off. Four men who came to help him set off mines, and each lost a leg. Wilson started over to help, but the lieutenant yelled at him to stay back. Then the lieutenant began talking, calmly, to the wounded men around him. One by one, he directed them back over the path they had taken into the minefield. One by one, on hands and knee, dragging a stump, they got out. Then the lieutenant dragged himself out."
He made me smile not because he loved to crack jokes for the 15 minutes we spoke by I kept thinking if I ever lived to be 90 I liked to be in as apparent good shape as that guy. I hope he's not alone though he said he lost his wife 3 years ago.....we parted and I wished him well and for serving this country.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
For those catching up with the war and learning, I'd recommend "A Short History of WWII" by James Stokesbury. Think of it as a survey course on the war. It's a good read and keeps things at the high level which is necessary when talking about all the theaters.
For those that like the Eastern Front, I would HIGHLY recommend City of Thieves by David Benioff. You may recognize the name as co-Creator of Game of Thrones, but this is the true story of his grandfather's ordeal as a Russian young man in Leningrad, I believe. Maybe Stalingrad. It reads like a novel but unbelievably riveting.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
My other uncle was an island hopper in the Marines. He was in Tarawa, Enewetak and others. Tarawa was one of the most notorious of course. My dad (who fought in Korea and was much younger) said that they received a visit from the Marines that Georgie died in Saipan. Well he didn't, it was mistake and they didn't find out for months later. Obviously traumatic for the family.
They both lived into the late 1990's so I got to hear lots of stories growing up. In fact, I wrote an extensive documentary and interview with my Uncle Mike (European theater) while pursuing my history degree and it's in the Florida Historical society museum.
I remember at my dad's funeral in 1994 (the after 'party'). My uncles were there along with a neighbor who was in the Polish undergrounds. They spent four hours arguing who had it worse, and that the others were a bunch of pussies. It was hysterical but so memorable to hear the stories.
Agree - the movie was okay, but the book is great.
Watching this, I can understand why there was a policy of killing SS soldiers rather than taking them prisoner
Ordinary Men.
They were everyday people like you and me. Conditions were such that they fell into full compliance mode. I'm not talking about the architects- I'm talking about the people on the ground and in the front.
Disclaimer: no excuses. Just speaking to your questioning.
It's very objective, written by a scholar, and begins under the same premise you present.
Trust me. I am as mortified as any with regards to the atrocities war presents us. The SS were as bad as it gets, but there was a method to the madness.
With references to multiple psychological and sociological experiments and studies.. the book offers an explanation as to why ordinary men do unordinary things. It doesn't seek to absolve them.