hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
And Enkidu, thank you for taking the time to type out and post your father's words. So personal and so worth sharing; hope doing so heals more than hurts.
As harsh as his letter is/was, how blessed to have that of him, of that time. That window.
I typed out a couple of my dad's letters - this one I used in the little online lit magazine I co-edit. This is one of the saddest parts of the letter:
"The deaths of the president [FDR] and Ernie Pyle were shocks. The loss of both men was a real blow. I hope Truman does justice to the program. It would have been a revelation to have read what Ernie Pyle would have written after this was over, I’m quite sure. He had the picture."
If you've never heard about Ernie Pyle, check him out. This is one of his most famous columns.
Speaking of WWII, has anyone here visited the Anne Frank "house" in Amsterdam?
I've been twice. Once in the mid 80s and again about 20 years later. Both times a moving experience. I always recommend a visit if you're in Amsterdam.
I've also been to the National Holocaust Museum in DC, Yad Vashem in Jerusalem, in addition to other Holocausts memorials and museums in many countries. As well as multiple concentration camp sites to see where my relatives were murdered.
If you can handle it a great documentary on the repatriation of the camps was released last year. Called.... Night Will Fall.... not for the faint of heart.
I want to thank those of you who have made thoughtful contributions, even sharing personal stories. I really appreciate it.
It's truly sad that one or two people cannot afford even a subject like this the respect it deserves but do you know what? I can only feel sorry for people who take pleasure in upsetting others or are so lacking in compassion that they seek to cause trouble merely for their own amusement. I cannot pretend to understand such people or what they hope to gain from their behaviour but I refuse to engage with it, as they seem to merely take further encouragement from those who try to reason with them. People call them trolls but to me they'll just be the invisibles...
There's too much to comment on in this thread. OP, Band of Brothers is one of the best things I've ever seen on TV. And how do you even think about talking about war - it's such a vast, unexplainable thing. I'm reading a book called KL: A History of Nazi Concentration Camps and it's great, but really difficult reading.
My dad fought in WWII. That really happened, btw. He was in the Pacific prepping for the invasion of Japan when they dropped the bombs.
This is long, but it's part of a letter from my dad to his mom, dated April 27, 1945. He's in Manila.
"The trip to the city was enlightening in as much as it gave me a first hand picture of the destruction wrought thru total war. You’ll never have the real picture until you’re actually in the midst of it. It’s a god damn mess that hurts and then makes you mad. Try to picture the block of the Schenley Apartments [where his family lived in Pittsburgh] multiplied by several more blocks just like it, a mass of shattered rubble. Sections blasted completely away, others just shells with gaping holes, while in the midst just for incongruity a small Spanish styled residence, walled in and entered thru a wrought iron gate that opens into a lovely patio garden full of luxuriant growth and the usual naked babies which would have been squirting water if the city water system had been running, scattered thru it. All of this was untouched except for one hole in the wall. To the right as you entered was the resident itself while on the other side of the patio were the stables. One of our platoon CPs was housed there – the EM [enlisted men?] quartered in the stalls – tiled with oaken, hand carved swinging doors, while the officers were upstairs in the servants’ quarters – tiled, fresh toilet, etc. The servants’ kitchen served as a message center and switchboard set up. God makes us thankful for little things."
Thank you for this. 'Vast and unexplainable' sums it up pretty well
The OP who has questions after watching band of brothers and admits they live in a bubble and has been untouched by such horror is subject to big-boy questions.
The shit that the two of you consistently spew on here baffles me. Why do you have to be such contrarions??
Please don't start with the bullying. I'm not spewing shit, I asked a question.
Oh for goodness' sake. Get over yourself. No one is bullying you. You made an idiotic remark and you always post combative material. I'm not bullying you, I simply don't like you because you always post stupid crap like this. If anyone is guilty of bullying, it's you. You are ALWAYS combative. I'm just calling you out on it.
Now it's a personal attack. You're saying how you don't like me. All I did was ask a question.
Now I've been bullied (by claiming I spew shit) and then attacked saying how you don't like me. That's not following the posting guidelines and hurts my feeling. This always seems to happen on Sunday, the lords day when I have my Christian Rock tunes on and am enjoying spending time proclaiming my love for God and Jesus.
I'll ask again, please don't personally attack me or my faith.
Come on. Give us something. Can we at least attack your bible rock?
Bible rock?
And you've done more than enough bashing of "dumb ass Christians" for one lifetime.
My faith is brought up because religion = war. That's what you said. And I said please don't insult Christians on my day of worship, Sunday.
That's why it's being discussed.
Remember that it was the Romans in the midst of their own holy war that decided to crucify Jesus due to not agreeing with his beliefs. Don't do the same thing.
It s ironic because the underlining causes of ww2 had little to do about religion, it was about natural reaources and land. Crusades, religion. Ww1, ww2, Korea, Vietnam: not religion.
I want to thank those of you who have made thoughtful contributions, even sharing personal stories. I really appreciate it.
It's truly sad that one or two people cannot afford even a subject like this the respect it deserves but do you know what? I can only feel sorry for people who take pleasure in upsetting others or are so lacking in compassion that they seek to cause trouble merely for their own amusement. I cannot pretend to understand such people or what they hope to gain from their behaviour but I refuse to engage with it, as they seem to merely take further encouragement from those who try to reason with them. People call them trolls but to me they'll just be the invisibles...
Well stated, particularly agree with the bolded section.
I want to thank those of you who have made thoughtful contributions, even sharing personal stories. I really appreciate it.
It's truly sad that one or two people cannot afford even a subject like this the respect it deserves but do you know what? I can only feel sorry for people who take pleasure in upsetting others or are so lacking in compassion that they seek to cause trouble merely for their own amusement. I cannot pretend to understand such people or what they hope to gain from their behaviour but I refuse to engage with it, as they seem to merely take further encouragement from those who try to reason with them. People call them trolls but to me they'll just be the invisibles...
I think this is a great thread you started - I don't know quite how it went to crazytown. And I didn't mean to hijack it with my dad's WWII letter.
I'm always amazed at how young these soldiers are. I thought Band of Brothers did that so well. And how to you train people to fight and kill? Isn't that in the beginning of BoB about it paid $100 more to jump out of planes so that's why I'll do it.
Thank you for this thread. I hope it stays on a serious track.
I want to thank those of you who have made thoughtful contributions, even sharing personal stories. I really appreciate it.
It's truly sad that one or two people cannot afford even a subject like this the respect it deserves but do you know what? I can only feel sorry for people who take pleasure in upsetting others or are so lacking in compassion that they seek to cause trouble merely for their own amusement. I cannot pretend to understand such people or what they hope to gain from their behaviour but I refuse to engage with it, as they seem to merely take further encouragement from those who try to reason with them. People call them trolls but to me they'll just be the invisibles...
I think this is a great thread you started - I don't know quite how it went to crazytown. And I didn't mean to hijack it with my dad's WWII letter.
I'm always amazed at how young these soldiers are. I thought Band of Brothers did that so well. And how to you train people to fight and kill? Isn't that in the beginning of BoB about it paid $100 more to jump out of planes so that's why I'll do it.
Thank you for this thread. I hope it stays on a serious track.
Yeah the age of them is terrible, some only 17. To see such things at that age, their age of innocence was cut tragically short :(
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,760
I want to thank those of you who have made thoughtful contributions, even sharing personal stories. I really appreciate it.
It's truly sad that one or two people cannot afford even a subject like this the respect it deserves but do you know what? I can only feel sorry for people who take pleasure in upsetting others or are so lacking in compassion that they seek to cause trouble merely for their own amusement. I cannot pretend to understand such people or what they hope to gain from their behaviour but I refuse to engage with it, as they seem to merely take further encouragement from those who try to reason with them. People call them trolls but to me they'll just be the invisibles...
I think this is a great thread you started - I don't know quite how it went to crazytown. And I didn't mean to hijack it with my dad's WWII letter.
I'm always amazed at how young these soldiers are. I thought Band of Brothers did that so well. And how to you train people to fight and kill? Isn't that in the beginning of BoB about it paid $100 more to jump out of planes so that's why I'll do it.
Thank you for this thread. I hope it stays on a serious track.
Yeah the age of them is terrible, some only 17. To see such things at that age, their age of innocence was cut tragically short :(
It is terrible. in all wars. Young boys have fought it wars from the time of the Greeks and Romans to the U.S. Civil War, WWI and WWII, and on and on. And always the old and wealthy using young humans as their pawns. War must end.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I will recommend a podcast for anyone who is interested in different wars throughout history. It's called Hardcore History, very intense and very good.
I want to thank those of you who have made thoughtful contributions, even sharing personal stories. I really appreciate it.
It's truly sad that one or two people cannot afford even a subject like this the respect it deserves but do you know what? I can only feel sorry for people who take pleasure in upsetting others or are so lacking in compassion that they seek to cause trouble merely for their own amusement. I cannot pretend to understand such people or what they hope to gain from their behaviour but I refuse to engage with it, as they seem to merely take further encouragement from those who try to reason with them. People call them trolls but to me they'll just be the invisibles...
I think this is a great thread you started - I don't know quite how it went to crazytown. And I didn't mean to hijack it with my dad's WWII letter.
I'm always amazed at how young these soldiers are. I thought Band of Brothers did that so well. And how to you train people to fight and kill? Isn't that in the beginning of BoB about it paid $100 more to jump out of planes so that's why I'll do it.
Thank you for this thread. I hope it stays on a serious track.
Yeah the age of them is terrible, some only 17. To see such things at that age, their age of innocence was cut tragically short :(
Nazi Germany's had soldiers young as twelve. The Vietcong....8/9? Craziness.
I want to thank those of you who have made thoughtful contributions, even sharing personal stories. I really appreciate it.
It's truly sad that one or two people cannot afford even a subject like this the respect it deserves but do you know what? I can only feel sorry for people who take pleasure in upsetting others or are so lacking in compassion that they seek to cause trouble merely for their own amusement. I cannot pretend to understand such people or what they hope to gain from their behaviour but I refuse to engage with it, as they seem to merely take further encouragement from those who try to reason with them. People call them trolls but to me they'll just be the invisibles...
I think this is a great thread you started - I don't know quite how it went to crazytown. And I didn't mean to hijack it with my dad's WWII letter.
I'm always amazed at how young these soldiers are. I thought Band of Brothers did that so well. And how to you train people to fight and kill? Isn't that in the beginning of BoB about it paid $100 more to jump out of planes so that's why I'll do it.
Thank you for this thread. I hope it stays on a serious track.
Yeah the age of them is terrible, some only 17. To see such things at that age, their age of innocence was cut tragically short :(
Nazi Germany's had soldiers young as twelve. The Vietcong....8/9? Craziness.
I want to thank those of you who have made thoughtful contributions, even sharing personal stories. I really appreciate it.
It's truly sad that one or two people cannot afford even a subject like this the respect it deserves but do you know what? I can only feel sorry for people who take pleasure in upsetting others or are so lacking in compassion that they seek to cause trouble merely for their own amusement. I cannot pretend to understand such people or what they hope to gain from their behaviour but I refuse to engage with it, as they seem to merely take further encouragement from those who try to reason with them. People call them trolls but to me they'll just be the invisibles...
I think this is a great thread you started - I don't know quite how it went to crazytown. And I didn't mean to hijack it with my dad's WWII letter.
I'm always amazed at how young these soldiers are. I thought Band of Brothers did that so well. And how to you train people to fight and kill? Isn't that in the beginning of BoB about it paid $100 more to jump out of planes so that's why I'll do it.
Thank you for this thread. I hope it stays on a serious track.
Yeah the age of them is terrible, some only 17. To see such things at that age, their age of innocence was cut tragically short :(
Nazi Germany's had soldiers young as twelve. The Vietcong....8/9? Craziness.
Near the end it was anyone with a pulse.
Absolutely. Imagine being a 25 year old U.S./Canadian soldier and suddenly seeing a 12 year old charge your position?
A lot of people don't know the origin/history of the word Infantry. late 16th cent.: from French infanterie, from Italian infanteria, from infante ‘youth, infantryman,’ from Latin infant- (see infant).
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,760
A lot of people don't know the origin/history of the word Infantry. late 16th cent.: from French infanterie, from Italian infanteria, from infante ‘youth, infantryman,’ from Latin infant- (see infant).
Son of a b. Never noticed that.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
The OP who has questions after watching band of brothers and admits they live in a bubble and has been untouched by such horror is subject to big-boy questions.
The shit that the two of you consistently spew on here baffles me. Why do you have to be such contrarions??
Please don't start with the bullying. I'm not spewing shit, I asked a question.
Oh for goodness' sake. Get over yourself. No one is bullying you. You made an idiotic remark and you always post combative material. I'm not bullying you, I simply don't like you because you always post stupid crap like this. If anyone is guilty of bullying, it's you. You are ALWAYS combative. I'm just calling you out on it.
Now it's a personal attack. You're saying how you don't like me. All I did was ask a question.
Now I've been bullied (by claiming I spew shit) and then attacked saying how you don't like me. That's not following the posting guidelines and hurts my feeling. This always seems to happen on Sunday, the lords day when I have my Christian Rock tunes on and am enjoying spending time proclaiming my love for God and Jesus.
I'll ask again, please don't personally attack me or my faith.
I want to thank those of you who have made thoughtful contributions, even sharing personal stories. I really appreciate it.
It's truly sad that one or two people cannot afford even a subject like this the respect it deserves but do you know what? I can only feel sorry for people who take pleasure in upsetting others or are so lacking in compassion that they seek to cause trouble merely for their own amusement. I cannot pretend to understand such people or what they hope to gain from their behaviour but I refuse to engage with it, as they seem to merely take further encouragement from those who try to reason with them. People call them trolls but to me they'll just be the invisibles...
I think this is a great thread you started - I don't know quite how it went to crazytown. And I didn't mean to hijack it with my dad's WWII letter.
I'm always amazed at how young these soldiers are. I thought Band of Brothers did that so well. And how to you train people to fight and kill? Isn't that in the beginning of BoB about it paid $100 more to jump out of planes so that's why I'll do it.
Thank you for this thread. I hope it stays on a serious track.
Yeah the age of them is terrible, some only 17. To see such things at that age, their age of innocence was cut tragically short :(
Nazi Germany's had soldiers young as twelve. The Vietcong....8/9? Craziness.
Near the end it was anyone with a pulse.
yeah in the final days boys as young as 12 i think, and elderly were given panzerfausts and told to defend berlin even it it means their death. which if they refused, they were going to be killed anyway. pretty sad.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
A lot of people don't know the origin/history of the word Infantry. late 16th cent.: from French infanterie, from Italian infanteria, from infante ‘youth, infantryman,’ from Latin infant- (see infant).
You left out that It s origins are also "to fight on foot". There were no roman legions of infants fighting on foot.
i think any time anything drastic occurs that upends the sociopolitical status quo, war is always a possiblt result. world war I it was an assassination. world war II hitler became fuhrer and he started claiming land for germany. some of it was given to him, he tried to take the rest through war.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
i think any time anything drastic occurs that upends the sociopolitical status quo, war is always a possiblt result. world war I it was an assassination. world war II hitler became fuhrer and he started claiming land for germany. some of it was given to him, he tried to take the rest through war.
If England and France weren't so pissed off many they could have been a little more chill when drafting the treaty of Versailles. (But who could blame them)
i think any time anything drastic occurs that upends the sociopolitical status quo, war is always a possiblt result. world war I it was an assassination. world war II hitler became fuhrer and he started claiming land for germany. some of it was given to him, he tried to take the rest through war.
If England and France weren't so pissed off many they could have been a little more chill when drafting the treaty of Versailles. (But who could blame them)
yeah i always thought that treaty was very heavy handed. but many people would argue that germany deserved that treaty.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
i think any time anything drastic occurs that upends the sociopolitical status quo, war is always a possiblt result. world war I it was an assassination. world war II hitler became fuhrer and he started claiming land for germany. some of it was given to him, he tried to take the rest through war.
If England and France weren't so pissed off many they could have been a little more chill when drafting the treaty of Versailles. (But who could blame them)
yeah i always thought that treaty was very heavy handed. but many people would argue that germany deserved that treaty.
Germany definitely deserved it but no harshness within the treat of versailles no hitter and probably no ww2 to the scale it was at. Japan would have probably started something in the pacific but I think Europe would have sat it out.
i think any time anything drastic occurs that upends the sociopolitical status quo, war is always a possiblt result. world war I it was an assassination. world war II hitler became fuhrer and he started claiming land for germany. some of it was given to him, he tried to take the rest through war.
If England and France weren't so pissed off many they could have been a little more chill when drafting the treaty of Versailles. (But who could blame them)
yeah i always thought that treaty was very heavy handed. but many people would argue that germany deserved that treaty.
Germany definitely deserved it but no harshness within the treat of versailles no hitter and probably no ww2 to the scale it was at. Japan would have probably started something in the pacific but I think Europe would have sat it out.
i agree. one begat the other. no harsh treaty, no hitler.
the war in the pacific was probably going to happen. i think england would have helped us vs the japanese. but then italy would have probably started things in europe. it is fun to try to think of the what ifs?
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
i think any time anything drastic occurs that upends the sociopolitical status quo, war is always a possiblt result. world war I it was an assassination. world war II hitler became fuhrer and he started claiming land for germany. some of it was given to him, he tried to take the rest through war.
If England and France weren't so pissed off many they could have been a little more chill when drafting the treaty of Versailles. (But who could blame them)
yeah i always thought that treaty was very heavy handed. but many people would argue that germany deserved that treaty.
Germany definitely deserved it but no harshness within the treat of versailles no hitter and probably no ww2 to the scale it was at. Japan would have probably started something in the pacific but I think Europe would have sat it out.
i agree. one begat the other. no harsh treaty, no hitler.
the war in the pacific was probably going to happen. i think england would have helped us vs the japanese. but then italy would have probably started things in europe. it is fun to try to think of the what ifs?
What if Germany doesn't invade Russia? The extinction of the European jew? German is the only language in Europe?
i think any time anything drastic occurs that upends the sociopolitical status quo, war is always a possiblt result. world war I it was an assassination. world war II hitler became fuhrer and he started claiming land for germany. some of it was given to him, he tried to take the rest through war.
If England and France weren't so pissed off many they could have been a little more chill when drafting the treaty of Versailles. (But who could blame them)
yeah i always thought that treaty was very heavy handed. but many people would argue that germany deserved that treaty.
Germany definitely deserved it but no harshness within the treat of versailles no hitter and probably no ww2 to the scale it was at. Japan would have probably started something in the pacific but I think Europe would have sat it out.
i agree. one begat the other. no harsh treaty, no hitler.
the war in the pacific was probably going to happen. i think england would have helped us vs the japanese. but then italy would have probably started things in europe. it is fun to try to think of the what ifs?
What if Germany doesn't invade Russia? The extinction of the European jew? German is the only language in Europe?
I'll take it a step further.If the Nazis don't invade Russia and the surrounding USSR countries,and the Jewish population does not need to flee.What would the Middle East look like now? France would still suck either way.
i think any time anything drastic occurs that upends the sociopolitical status quo, war is always a possiblt result. world war I it was an assassination. world war II hitler became fuhrer and he started claiming land for germany. some of it was given to him, he tried to take the rest through war.
If England and France weren't so pissed off many they could have been a little more chill when drafting the treaty of Versailles. (But who could blame them)
yeah i always thought that treaty was very heavy handed. but many people would argue that germany deserved that treaty.
Germany definitely deserved it but no harshness within the treat of versailles no hitter and probably no ww2 to the scale it was at. Japan would have probably started something in the pacific but I think Europe would have sat it out.
i agree. one begat the other. no harsh treaty, no hitler.
the war in the pacific was probably going to happen. i think england would have helped us vs the japanese. but then italy would have probably started things in europe. it is fun to try to think of the what ifs?
What if Germany doesn't invade Russia? The extinction of the European jew? German is the only language in Europe?
I'll take it a step further.If the Nazis don't invade Russia and the surrounding USSR countries,and the Jewish population does not need to flee.What would the Middle East look like now? France would still suck either way.
never thought of it like that. wow. would the middle east be peaceful?
i think any time anything drastic occurs that upends the sociopolitical status quo, war is always a possiblt result. world war I it was an assassination. world war II hitler became fuhrer and he started claiming land for germany. some of it was given to him, he tried to take the rest through war.
If England and France weren't so pissed off many they could have been a little more chill when drafting the treaty of Versailles. (But who could blame them)
yeah i always thought that treaty was very heavy handed. but many people would argue that germany deserved that treaty.
Germany definitely deserved it but no harshness within the treat of versailles no hitter and probably no ww2 to the scale it was at. Japan would have probably started something in the pacific but I think Europe would have sat it out.
i agree. one begat the other. no harsh treaty, no hitler.
the war in the pacific was probably going to happen. i think england would have helped us vs the japanese. but then italy would have probably started things in europe. it is fun to try to think of the what ifs?
What if Germany doesn't invade Russia? The extinction of the European jew? German is the only language in Europe?
I'll take it a step further.If the Nazis don't invade Russia and the surrounding USSR countries,and the Jewish population does not need to flee.What would the Middle East look like now? France would still suck either way.
never thought of it like that. wow. would the middle east be peaceful?
Maybe Maybe not The issues in the Middle East were going on before WWII. The British were in control of much of the area and might not have given up their territories so soon or so easily.
That's one question.What about radicalized islam? Would it be radicalized now? Would Europe be a mess? How Would the Cold War era have been different? Would nuclear build ups be different? A lot of butterfly effect here. In reality,Hitlers actions birthed the terror climate we face today.
Comments
As harsh as his letter is/was, how blessed to have that of him, of that time. That window.
"The deaths of the president [FDR] and Ernie Pyle were shocks. The loss of both men was a real blow. I hope Truman does justice to the program. It would have been a revelation to have read what Ernie Pyle would have written after this was over, I’m quite sure. He had the picture."
If you've never heard about Ernie Pyle, check him out. This is one of his most famous columns.
http://mediaschool.indiana.edu/erniepyle/1944/01/10/the-death-of-captain-waskow/
I've also been to the National Holocaust Museum in DC, Yad Vashem in Jerusalem, in addition to other Holocausts memorials and museums in many countries. As well as multiple concentration camp sites to see where my relatives were murdered.
If you can handle it a great documentary on the repatriation of the camps was released last year. Called.... Night Will Fall.... not for the faint of heart.
It's truly sad that one or two people cannot afford even a subject like this the respect it deserves but do you know what? I can only feel sorry for people who take pleasure in upsetting others or are so lacking in compassion that they seek to cause trouble merely for their own amusement. I cannot pretend to understand such people or what they hope to gain from their behaviour but I refuse to engage with it, as they seem to merely take further encouragement from those who try to reason with them. People call them trolls but to me they'll just be the invisibles...
I'm always amazed at how young these soldiers are. I thought Band of Brothers did that so well. And how to you train people to fight and kill? Isn't that in the beginning of BoB about it paid $100 more to jump out of planes so that's why I'll do it.
Thank you for this thread. I hope it stays on a serious track.
http://www.dancarlin.com/hardcore-history-series/
late 16th cent.: from French infanterie, from Italian infanteria, from infante ‘youth, infantryman,’ from Latin infant- (see infant).
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
the war in the pacific was probably going to happen. i think england would have helped us vs the japanese. but then italy would have probably started things in europe. it is fun to try to think of the what ifs?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
France would still suck either way.
Maybe not
The issues in the Middle East were going on before WWII.
The British were in control of much of the area and might not have given up their territories so soon or so easily.
A lot of butterfly effect here.
In reality,Hitlers actions birthed the terror climate we face today.