The Debate

rr165892

It's not a hack job movie.Its a Michael Bay Blockbuster and it looks really good.Special Forces were held back when they were on Tarmac ready to deploy.Could of they made a difference? To be seen.
I'm not one who picks apart everything this admin has done.But I'm no cheerleader either.But when it comes foreign policy,it's their big week spot.Are we living in a safer world now then during last admin? No, not even close.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=4CJBuUwd0Os
Here is trailer to "13 Hours" movie

callen

Don't care to spend a trillion dollars and kill thousands for perceived safer world. I don't feel any more threatened in my neck of the woods than I did during last administration. will travel wherever I would've during last administration. Now every freakin yahoo having a gun due to gun lobby paying off politicians? Well different safety. Course we know which party plays to god and guns. Yee freak in haw.

As to movie, hell make it about the lies told to Americans to get us Into Iraq. Bengazi is nothing. But alas the only thing.

Course I don't have all the facts. I could be convinced though probably won't see this movie but look for confirmed facts. Like there weren't any fraakin WMD's.

Gern Blansten

Godfather. said:

Gern Blansten said:

Yeah he is saying what a lot of ignorant racists think but beyond that he's a laughing stock. That's why most of us are laughing at him.

I sincerely hope he gets the nomination or splits to a third party ticket. Both scenarios will guarantee a Democrat in the white house.

sure......a dem ? havent we had enough of dem's and repub's ? both of those parties have fucked us to death, so yea lets get another dem in office and he can finish running this country into the ground.....where obama left off.

Godfather.

Yeah you say that all the time too. The GOP mantra is that the country is falling apart and we need saving.

All indices say otherwise.

Gern Blansten

rr165892 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

Godfather. said:

Gern Blansten said:

Yeah he is saying what a lot of ignorant racists think but beyond that he's a laughing stock. That's why most of us are laughing at him.

I sincerely hope he gets the nomination or splits to a third party ticket. Both scenarios will guarantee a Democrat in the white house.

sure......a dem ? havent we had enough of dem's and repub's ? both of those parties have fucked us to death, so yea lets get another dem in office and he can finish running this country into the ground.....where obama left off.

Godfather.

but obama has not run the country into the ground. don't you see that?

republicans are misinformed on this for one of two reasons. 1. they are brainwashed by right wing media or 2. they realize that obama has been the president that republicans wish george w bush had been.

imagine what he could have done if he had a congress that had at least an inkling of attempting to support him in any way.

Gimme,I saw a preview for what looks like a very intense new movie that comes out this fall about Bengazi.Its not going to be a glowing recommendation to the Administrations handling of this blunder.

I fail to see the controversy with Benghazi. Five people were killed in the recruitment center shooting right here in our own county. Four people were killed halfway across the world in Benghazi in a terrorist attack and you people can't stop harping about it.

A CIA base was attacked. There was little that could be done to stop it. Multiple GOP investigations have already confirmed this.

Gern Blansten

Last-12-Exit said:

callen said:

rr165892 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

Godfather. said:

Gern Blansten said:

Yeah he is saying what a lot of ignorant racists think but beyond that he's a laughing stock. That's why most of us are laughing at him.

I sincerely hope he gets the nomination or splits to a third party ticket. Both scenarios will guarantee a Democrat in the white house.

sure......a dem ? havent we had enough of dem's and repub's ? both of those parties have fucked us to death, so yea lets get another dem in office and he can finish running this country into the ground.....where obama left off.

Godfather.

but obama has not run the country into the ground. don't you see that?

republicans are misinformed on this for one of two reasons. 1. they are brainwashed by right wing media or 2. they realize that obama has been the president that republicans wish george w bush had been.

imagine what he could have done if he had a congress that had at least an inkling of attempting to support him in any way.

Gimme,I saw a preview for what looks like a very intense new movie that comes out this fall about Bengazi.Its not going to be a glowing recommendation to the Administrations handling of this blunder.

I don't get the Blunder. Some people attacked US embasy and some Americans died. That's it. You can second guess security levels but could do that for any event where people died. Please explain the blunder.

If I'm not mistaken, those people that died were warned of an impending attack and asked the government for backup support. That request was denied. I believe that is the blunder.

Incorrect. The decision was made that sending more security would just result in more dead bodies. They didn't know what they were up against and they had little available resources to assist.

rr165892

callen said:

Don't care to spend a trillion dollars and kill thousands for perceived safer world. I don't feel any more threatened in my neck of the woods than I did during last administration. will travel wherever I would've during last administration. Now every freakin yahoo having a gun due to gun lobby paying off politicians? Well different safety. Course we know which party plays to god and guns. Yee freak in haw.

As to movie, hell make it about the lies told to Americans to get us Into Iraq. Bengazi is nothing. But alas the only thing.

Course I don't have all the facts. I could be convinced though probably won't see this movie but look for confirmed facts. Like there weren't any fraakin WMD's.

The movie about lies in Iraq was the Damon flick Green Zone.It was well done.

rr165892

Gern Blansten said:

rr165892 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

Godfather. said:

Gern Blansten said:

Yeah he is saying what a lot of ignorant racists think but beyond that he's a laughing stock. That's why most of us are laughing at him.

I sincerely hope he gets the nomination or splits to a third party ticket. Both scenarios will guarantee a Democrat in the white house.

sure......a dem ? havent we had enough of dem's and repub's ? both of those parties have fucked us to death, so yea lets get another dem in office and he can finish running this country into the ground.....where obama left off.

Godfather.

but obama has not run the country into the ground. don't you see that?

republicans are misinformed on this for one of two reasons. 1. they are brainwashed by right wing media or 2. they realize that obama has been the president that republicans wish george w bush had been.

imagine what he could have done if he had a congress that had at least an inkling of attempting to support him in any way.

Gimme,I saw a preview for what looks like a very intense new movie that comes out this fall about Bengazi.Its not going to be a glowing recommendation to the Administrations handling of this blunder.

I fail to see the controversy with Benghazi. Five people were killed in the recruitment center shooting right here in our own county. Four people were killed halfway across the world in Benghazi in a terrorist attack and you people can't stop harping about it.

A CIA base was attacked. There was little that could be done to stop it. Multiple GOP investigations have already confirmed this.

"You people can't stop harping about it" Wtf Gern?

By "you people "do you mean Americans,or independents or non democrat, kool aid drinking mother fuckers? Which is it?

I'm not ok with American sovereign ground being attacked.If 1 dies or 1000,here at home or abroad.Its not ok.Thats fine if you see no wrong here your entitled to that.But Minimizing the situation does not give this Admin a pass.

Gern Blansten

rr165892 said:

Gern Blansten said:

rr165892 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

Godfather. said:

Gern Blansten said:

Yeah he is saying what a lot of ignorant racists think but beyond that he's a laughing stock. That's why most of us are laughing at him.

I sincerely hope he gets the nomination or splits to a third party ticket. Both scenarios will guarantee a Democrat in the white house.

sure......a dem ? havent we had enough of dem's and repub's ? both of those parties have fucked us to death, so yea lets get another dem in office and he can finish running this country into the ground.....where obama left off.

Godfather.

but obama has not run the country into the ground. don't you see that?

republicans are misinformed on this for one of two reasons. 1. they are brainwashed by right wing media or 2. they realize that obama has been the president that republicans wish george w bush had been.

imagine what he could have done if he had a congress that had at least an inkling of attempting to support him in any way.

Gimme,I saw a preview for what looks like a very intense new movie that comes out this fall about Bengazi.Its not going to be a glowing recommendation to the Administrations handling of this blunder.

I fail to see the controversy with Benghazi. Five people were killed in the recruitment center shooting right here in our own county. Four people were killed halfway across the world in Benghazi in a terrorist attack and you people can't stop harping about it.

A CIA base was attacked. There was little that could be done to stop it. Multiple GOP investigations have already confirmed this.

"You people can't stop harping about it" Wtf Gern?

By "you people "do you mean Americans,or independents or non democrat, kool aid drinking mother fuckers? Which is it?

I'm not ok with American sovereign ground being attacked.If 1 dies or 1000,here at home or abroad.Its not ok.Thats fine if you see no wrong here your entitled to that.But Minimizing the situation does not give this Admin a pass.

"You people" = people who are too consumed by Faux News that they can't discern fact from fiction.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/transcript-hillary-clinton-takes-responsibility-benghazi-attack-article-1.1246025

Hillary accepted responsibility for it. Please read the link.

"That’s why Chris Stevens went to Benghazi in the first place. I asked him to go. During the beginning of the revolution against Qadhafi, we needed somebody in Benghazi who could begin to build bridges with the insurgents and to begin to demonstrate that America would stand against Qadhafi. Nobody knew the dangers or the opportunities better than Chris, first during the revolution, then during the transition. A weak Libyan Government, marauding militias, even terrorist groups; a bomb exploded in the parking lot of his hotel. He never wavered. He never asked to come home. He never said, “Let’s shut it down, quit, and go somewhere else.” Because he understood it was critical for America to be represented in that place at that pivotal time."

rr165892

I'm not a Fox News watcher,a religious whacko or a republican.I can tell fact from fiction just fine.This isn't about the why we were there,or who sent Stevens.it's about the attack and our poor response.

rr165892

I'm also aware of the shit show the neo cons were trying to fabricate.Thats not truthful either.

Godfather.

rr this place politically is as soft as a sneaker full of shit, they won't ever see the reality of anything without pointing the fickle finger somewhere else ...not all but many.

Godfather.

Last-12-Exit

I'm certainly not consumed with Fox news. In fact, I rarely watch it. But that doesn't mean I have to think what happened in Benghazi is ok. Obama and Clinton let those people die. Your version of what happened doesn't sound accurate. At best, it's minimizing what happened. But that's ok.

Gern Blansten

Last-12-Exit said:

I'm certainly not consumed with Fox news. In fact, I rarely watch it. But that doesn't mean I have to think what happened in Benghazi is ok. Obama and Clinton let those people die. Your version of what happened doesn't sound accurate. At best, it's minimizing what happened. But that's ok.

I'm not saying it's ok. I'm saying they were casualties of terrorism that most likely couldn't have been prevented. If not for a few lucky mortar rounds there would have only been two deaths.

Is Benghazi being investigating more than similar attacks under GOP presidents?

http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/ronald-reagans-benghazi

241 killed in Beirut...was that Reagan's Benghazi? No.....

rr165892

Different time and circumstances

callen

rr165892 said:

I'm not a Fox News watcher,a religious whacko or a republican.I can tell fact from fiction just fine.This isn't about the why we were there,or who sent Stevens.it's about the attack and our poor response.

Well we weren't able to predict what may happen. Our country gets attacked all the time. It's a dangerous place. Shit happens unfortunately. This isn't a Hillary thing. Agreed?

Now as to response like to hear more.

I doubt that anyone in Obama's or hilliaries circle were malicious. Hell they care for the troops more than those that supposedly support them.

So I can't see this Bengazi thing as anything but attempting to discredit. And folks say must be a Faux thing because it appears to be a bit far fetched.

Gern Blansten

Last-12-Exit said:

I'm certainly not consumed with Fox news. In fact, I rarely watch it. But that doesn't mean I have to think what happened in Benghazi is ok. Obama and Clinton let those people die. Your version of what happened doesn't sound accurate. At best, it's minimizing what happened. But that's ok.

How exactly did Obama and Clinton "let those people die?"

Last-12-Exit

Gern Blansten said:

Last-12-Exit said:

I'm certainly not consumed with Fox news. In fact, I rarely watch it. But that doesn't mean I have to think what happened in Benghazi is ok. Obama and Clinton let those people die. Your version of what happened doesn't sound accurate. At best, it's minimizing what happened. But that's ok.

How exactly did Obama and Clinton "let those people die?"

By not acting on the request for reinforcements or support when they knew an attack was imminent.

rr165892

That is also my issue

rr165892

callen said:

rr165892 said:

I'm not a Fox News watcher,a religious whacko or a republican.I can tell fact from fiction just fine.This isn't about the why we were there,or who sent Stevens.it's about the attack and our poor response.

Well we weren't able to predict what may happen. Our country gets attacked all the time. It's a dangerous place. Shit happens unfortunately. This isn't a Hillary thing. Agreed?

Now as to response like to hear more.

I doubt that anyone in Obama's or hilliaries circle were malicious. Hell they care for the troops more than those that supposedly support them.

So I can't see this Bengazi thing as anything but attempting to discredit. And folks say must be a Faux thing because it appears to be a bit far fetched.

I'm not blaming Hillary directly.Im lumping the entire admin as neglectful in this matter.They new problems were imminent,and failed to properly adjust to threat.

Gern Blansten

Last-12-Exit said:

Gern Blansten said:

Last-12-Exit said:

I'm certainly not consumed with Fox news. In fact, I rarely watch it. But that doesn't mean I have to think what happened in Benghazi is ok. Obama and Clinton let those people die. Your version of what happened doesn't sound accurate. At best, it's minimizing what happened. But that's ok.

How exactly did Obama and Clinton "let those people die?"

By not acting on the request for reinforcements or support when they knew an attack was imminent.

And what is your source for that? What information did they have that told them an attack was imminent?

JUST A GIRL

You guys actually watch this mindless crap? Serious question - Why?

Ill be voting for Trump. He's the only one that's real, at all. The rest are just empty shells.

rgambs

JUST A GIRL said:

You guys actually watch this mindless crap? Serious question - Why?

Ill be voting for Trump. He's the only one that's real, at all. The rest are just empty shells.

Most of us watched it for entertainment and information, obviously...

Wait a minute, you are saying the ex-reality TV star who was a Democrat a few years ago and is now a Republican is the one who's real??

Godfather.

JUST A GIRL said:

You guys actually watch this mindless crap? Serious question - Why?

Ill be voting for Trump. He's the only one that's real, at all. The rest are just empty shells.

what ?????? how can this be possible ????? someone (JUST A GIRL) with an opinion that is different from the train norm ????? and that picture is just classic !....I'm getting dizzy, if I wake up tomorrow and all this was just a dream I'm going to be pissed.
wecome aboard JUST A GIRL !

Godfather.

jeffbr

JUST A GIRL said:

You guys actually watch this mindless crap? Serious question - Why?

Ill be voting for Trump. He's the only one that's real, at all. The rest are just empty shells.

Why? A few reasons. One is entertainment value - it makes for a good drinking game. The second is to see what issues they talk about. It gives some indication about where their focus is. I also like to see how they perform under pressure, and whether they have the demeanor I'd want in a leader who will be negotiating with our own congress, and with foreign leaders.

On that last point, Trump fails. Arrogant, boisterous, and absolutely no diplomatic skills. As far as being real, perhaps you have more insight into the real Donald than I do. I see the same guy in the WWE clip as I do on the Celebrity Apprentice show, who is no different than how he acts in the debates. So was the WWE clip real?

hedonist

rgambs said:

Most of us watched it for entertainment and information, obviously...

Ya think, gambo? Surely it can't be that simple.

(anyway, I caught a nice buzz in the process )

I want to hear all of the candidates state their views, see whether or not they speak and act with grace and candor, understand where their (in)tolerances lie, among other things.

Baaaa!

Godfather.

hedonist said:

rgambs said:

Most of us watched it for entertainment and information, obviously...

Ya think, gambo? Surely it can't be that simple.

(anyway, I caught a nice buzz in the process )

I want to hear all of the candidates state their views, see whether or not they speak and act with grace and candor, understand where their (in)tolerances lie, among other things.

Baaaa!

HAHHAHHHAHAHAHA your my new super hero HAHHAHHAHHAHHA (A NICE BUZZZ) !!!!!

Godfather.

Last-12-Exit

Gern Blansten said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Gern Blansten said:

Last-12-Exit said:

I'm certainly not consumed with Fox news. In fact, I rarely watch it. But that doesn't mean I have to think what happened in Benghazi is ok. Obama and Clinton let those people die. Your version of what happened doesn't sound accurate. At best, it's minimizing what happened. But that's ok.

How exactly did Obama and Clinton "let those people die?"

By not acting on the request for reinforcements or support when they knew an attack was imminent.

And what is your source for that? What information did they have that told them an attack was imminent?

U.S. security officer, Eric Nordstrom, twice requested additional security for the mission in Benghazi from his superiors at the State Department. His requests were denied. According to Nordstrom, State Department official, Charlene Lamb, wanted to keep the security presence in Benghazi "artificially low".[63]

On December 30, 2012, the United States Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs released a report, “Flashing Red: A Special Report on the Terrorist Attack at Benghazi,” wherein it was determined:

In the months [between February 2011 and September 11, 2012] leading up to the attack on the Temporary Mission Facility in Benghazi, there was a large amount of evidence gathered by the U.S. Intelligence Community (IC) and from open sources that Benghazi was increasingly dangerous and unstable, and that a significant attack against American personnel there was becoming much more likely. While this intelligence was effectively shared within the Intelligence Community (IC) and with key officials at the Department of State, it did not lead to a commensurate increase in security at Benghazi nor to a decision to close the American mission there, either of which would have been more than justified by the intelligence presented. ... The RSO [Regional Security Officer] in Libya compiled a list of 234 security incidents in Libya between June 2011 and July 2012, 50 of which took place in Benghazi.[64]

The desire of Hillary Clinton's State Department to maintain a low profile in Benghazi has been cited as the reason why the State Department circumvented their own Overseas Security Policy Board (OSPB) standards for diplomatic security.[65]:74-75 In the aftermath, Secretary of State Clinton sought to take responsibility for the security lapses at Benghazi and expressed personal regret.[66] However, in her January 2013 testimony before Congress, Secretary Clinton claimed security decisions at the Benghazi compound had been made by others, stating, "The specific security requests pertaining to Benghazi ... were handled by the security professionals in the [State] Department. I didn't see those requests, I didn't approve them, I didn't deny them."


http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/12/politics/fact-check-benghazi-security/
On Wednesday, the State Department's former point man on security in Libya told the House Oversight Committee that he asked for additional security help for the Benghazi facility months before the attack, but was denied.

Various communications dating back a year asked for three to five diplomatic security agents, according to testimony at Wednesday's hearing. But Eric Nordstrom, the one-time regional security officer, said he verbally asked for 12 agents.

Gern Blansten

ok..."imminent" means about to happen. What your source is describing isn't an imminent attack. Someone saying that the environment was growing hostile is different than someone saying an attack is "imminent."

Hillary took responsibility for what you are sourcing.

I'm pretty sure that ambassador Stevens refused the additional security as well.

Gern Blansten

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/05/15/official-amb-stevens-refused-additional-security.html

Stevens refused it twice.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/05/report-stevens-declined-security-91406.html

Last-12-Exit

You got me on semantics. One unnamed "official" is saying Stevens turned down extra security twice. Has this been confirmed by anyone else other than this unnamed official? I'm not a fan of Lindsay Graham, but he makes a good point in the second article you posted.

"One of the most outspoken critics, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), told McClatchy that he found it “odd” that Stevens wouldn’t want additional military assets.

“That is odd to me because Stevens requested from the State Department additional security four times, and there was an 18-person special forces security team headed by Lt. Col. Wood that Gen. Ham signed off on that the State Department said no to,” Graham told McClatchy.