ok so....what if the people asking for help are in bed with the US already, and the conditions are part of the plan? What if asking for help has nothing to do with the will of the people? And if it always turns around to bite us....why do it? There has to be a reason, right? Care to take a shot at what those reasons are?
But more importantly....with statements like yours....how can you see your 'help' as anything but self-serving? Since when does helping someone come with a price tag, with the cost paid by those you're helping? Is your intent to help, or to be paid thugs? Makes it all pretty clear.
this is how politics and the world work...nothing is free and the US is not the only country that dose business this way, and will of the people ? I wish !..Im not saying any of this right or justifide because I don't know what happens behind closed political doors and niether do the rest of us but the outcome pops up on the news and on the internet all the time.
Godfather.
GF giving advice on how the world works?? I must have been gone for a very very long time.
Crimes against humanity work both ways, Decimating a village with high incinderay explosives, dropped from an F16 and beheading, or shooting groups of people with hands tied behind their back has the same result on the local population.
This notion that America is there to somehow help is delusional at best, at worst, downright deceitful. These events are not localised, but are the result of the mess that has been created over there, and to be fair, the apathy of many Americans.
But go on thinking Muslims are all blood thirsty head choppers, I'm sure there are many young children of Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Pakistan etc... might have the same opinion of your armed forces.
i agree. i was just thinking this as i was reading through the thread.
the notion that somehow the united states can claim moral high ground on indiscriminate killing is laughable.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
Yeah,yeah,yeah we get it that past indiscretions by the West and the USA may have led to some of this crap.And yes some of our military campaigns in the region are absolutely horrible.No argument.But dismissing What "The Blood Thirsty Head Choppers" are doing because of our past actions is Crazy talk.Besides these same places get in line with their hands out for whatever aid they can squeeze out of the evil empire. War and violence are a way of life over there.Not just at our hands.Cmon.Be realistic.I know it sounds brash but those children(including the ones handed guns to kill or are taught to hate westerners and Jews and Christians from an early age) have to grow up in societies based on hate and violence.When these countries clean up their own mess then they(u) can point the fingers back at us.It is the mindset of people over there that breed this hate.
We sat on the sidelines and saw this group brutally take over 1/3 of Iraq in the last year with a full head of steam and people question why the US and most of the world is over there dropping bombs?
Yeah,yeah,yeah we get it that past indiscretions by the West and the USA may have led to some of this crap.And yes some of our military campaigns in the region are absolutely horrible.No argument.But dismissing What "The Blood Thirsty Head Choppers" are doing because of our past actions is Crazy talk.Besides these same places get in line with their hands out for whatever aid they can squeeze out of the evil empire. War and violence are a way of life over there.Not just at our hands.Cmon.Be realistic.I know it sounds brash but those children(including the ones handed guns to kill or are taught to hate westerners and Jews and Christians from an early age) have to grow up in societies based on hate and violence.When these countries clean up their own mess then they(u) can point the fingers back at us.It is the mindset of people over there that breed this hate.
When those countries clean up their own mess?? Um sorry to say but America has a big hand in the clean up job if that's the case.
As for violent society, pot and kettle. I think it's fair to say other countries may get a skewed view from media outlets as to the state of the American nation: White christian kids shooting up their classmates, a political system so polarized no one can agree on the color of the sky.
War and violence are as much a tenant of American society as it is anywhere else in the world.
When you bomb a shopping district, destroy social outlets, impose sanctions on whole towns and cities, it becomes a little nasty to then criticise the locals for lining up for handouts.
Whatever Moonpig.You're right it's Americas fault .All of it.How dare we try to cast blame on those Loveable IsIs members or Boko Haram or the throngs of disillusioned Muslim youth who think joining in theFundamentalist fun is sexy.(like the 3 stupid UK 15 year old girls who ran off today for Syria) I wish we would leave the area also .maybe all the Idiots would kill themselves and each other if we did.That would do the world a favor.That would keep us out of it.If somehow we could get those countries to remove their lips from weening on Americas huge supple teet.But that's not going to happen is it.So let's talk about how we the west fucked the middle east and all are just poor victims of our actions like there was no violence or ass backwards suppressions of human rights.Fuck that.Dont cast blame.
We sat on the sidelines and saw this group brutally take over 1/3 of Iraq in the last year with a full head of steam and people question why the US and most of the world is over there dropping bombs?
Whatever Moonpig.You're right it's Americas fault .All of it.How dare we try to cast blame on those Loveable IsIs members or Boko Haram or the throngs of disillusioned Muslim youth who think joining in theFundamentalist fun is sexy.(like the 3 stupid UK 15 year old girls who ran off today for Syria) I wish we would leave the area also .maybe all the Idiots would kill themselves and each other if we did.That would do the world a favor.That would keep us out of it.If somehow we could get those countries to remove their lips from weening on Americas huge supple teet.But that's not going to happen is it.So let's talk about how we the west fucked the middle east and all are just poor victims of our actions like there was no violence or ass backwards suppressions of human rights.Fuck that.Dont cast blame.
who has their lips on america's teet? certainly nobody in the middle east.
last i checked, we were over there in their region for one reason.
oil.
we have rigged elections, overthrown elected regimes, sided with countries like israel because we need a foothold in the region. all because they have oil, and we need oil. ergo, we meddle over there to make sure that our interests are not harmed.
let us not pretend that it is any other way, please.
Post edited by gimmesometruth27 on
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
How accurate is the following statement: when the Iraqi army was disbanded and soldiers were left with nothing other than their weapons, IS was born.
i don't think it is that simple. i think that is a part of it, but i think when the iraqi army was disbanded in 2003 i think most of those fighters went to fight for al queda. from what i have read there were a multitude of factors that led to the birth of isis.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
Whatever Moonpig.You're right it's Americas fault .All of it.How dare we try to cast blame on those Loveable IsIs members or Boko Haram or the throngs of disillusioned Muslim youth who think joining in theFundamentalist fun is sexy.(like the 3 stupid UK 15 year old girls who ran off today for Syria) I wish we would leave the area also .maybe all the Idiots would kill themselves and each other if we did.That would do the world a favor.That would keep us out of it.If somehow we could get those countries to remove their lips from weening on Americas huge supple teet.But that's not going to happen is it.So let's talk about how we the west fucked the middle east and all are just poor victims of our actions like there was no violence or ass backwards suppressions of human rights.Fuck that.Dont cast blame.
who has their lips on america's teet? certainly nobody in the middle east.
last i checked, we were over there in their region for one reason.
oil.
we have rigged elections, overthrown elected regimes, sided with countries like israel because we need a foothold in the region. all because they have oil, and we need oil. ergo, we meddle over there to make sure that our interests are not harmed.
let us not pretend that it is any other way, please.
Rod put down the bong,I think you're trippin balls here . just a few of the numbers.And yes it's a shit load of lady liberties breast milk
Egypt-2billion Pakistan-2.3 billion Iraq-1.6 billion Egypt-1.5 billion Afghan -2.4 billion Israel 3 billion Just a few.
Yeah,yeah,yeah we get it that past indiscretions by the West and the USA may have led to some of this crap.And yes some of our military campaigns in the region are absolutely horrible.No argument.But dismissing What "The Blood Thirsty Head Choppers" are doing because of our past actions is Crazy talk.Besides these same places get in line with their hands out for whatever aid they can squeeze out of the evil empire. War and violence are a way of life over there.Not just at our hands.Cmon.Be realistic.I know it sounds brash but those children(including the ones handed guns to kill or are taught to hate westerners and Jews and Christians from an early age) have to grow up in societies based on hate and violence.When these countries clean up their own mess then they(u) can point the fingers back at us.It is the mindset of people over there that breed this hate.
If you want to talk about a violent society and way of life, no country in the middle east can compare to the US. Never mind the gun stats that support my statement…but culturally and as a social construct… American children are taught to hate muslims at an early age – did you know there is an actual islamphobia industry in the US? People funding that agenda? Look at the increase in hate crimes against muslims since 9/11, then since Hebdo. Look at the number of countries the US has been involved in military actions in, compared to middle eastern countries fighting beyond their borders. Your post is American exceptionalism defined. How much influence do middle eastern countries have on the violence here, compared to our influence on violence there? It’s not even close. Your society is as based on hate and violence as any in the world…..War is a way of life in America more than ANY country in the world, by FAR. Just because you don’t see tanks and jets outside your window doesn’t mean it isn’t so; it just allows you the comfortable illusion of moral superiority. And no, there is no difference between collateral damage and random attacks on soft targets…Collateral damage is all about minimizing deaths on ‘our’ side while still achieving our goal – keeping our soldiers out of harm’s way at the cost of civilian lives on the other side. Attacking soft targets is pretty much doing the same thing.
Whatever Moonpig.You're right it's Americas fault .All of it.How dare we try to cast blame on those Loveable IsIs members or Boko Haram or the throngs of disillusioned Muslim youth who think joining in theFundamentalist fun is sexy.(like the 3 stupid UK 15 year old girls who ran off today for Syria) I wish we would leave the area also .maybe all the Idiots would kill themselves and each other if we did.That would do the world a favor.That would keep us out of it.If somehow we could get those countries to remove their lips from weening on Americas huge supple teet.But that's not going to happen is it.So let's talk about how we the west fucked the middle east and all are just poor victims of our actions like there was no violence or ass backwards suppressions of human rights.Fuck that.Dont cast blame.
who has their lips on america's teet? certainly nobody in the middle east.
last i checked, we were over there in their region for one reason.
oil.
we have rigged elections, overthrown elected regimes, sided with countries like israel because we need a foothold in the region. all because they have oil, and we need oil. ergo, we meddle over there to make sure that our interests are not harmed.
let us not pretend that it is any other way, please.
Rod put down the bong,I think you're trippin balls here . just a few of the numbers.And yes it's a shit load of lady liberties breast milk
Egypt-2billion Pakistan-2.3 billion Iraq-1.6 billion Egypt-1.5 billion Afghan -2.4 billion Israel 3 billion Just a few.
do you have any earthly idea why we are paying those countries so much money?
are they really on our teat, or are we paying them just enough money for them to let us have our way in the middle east?
in all honesty though that is just a drop in the bucket of what we pay corporations in the defense industry.
your statement of what we give israel is actually on the low end. we have given them 4 billion in money and military equipment for a few years now.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
Drowned cmon man."American Children are taught to hate Muslims at an early age"Are you fucking serious with this nonsense? I mean WTF are you talking about.Youre just so wrong it's scary. And while we are talking about kids raised to hate........................Have you seen some of the(Clearing my throat)"Schools" in the Middle East and Northern Africa? Lots of good ole fashioned hatred being taught there.no? We are not perfect as a society or a super power but who is.At least we don't lop off heads of people with a dissenting opinion. Btw.I don't recall the last time every dude (not women of course)in my town gathered to jump around and burn flags of Muslim countries and pictures of Muslim people.You know fun fake hanging and burnings and things.Maybe pass out candy to the children to "Celebrate" the hate.Shoot guns in the air.
Drowned cmon man."American Children are taught to hate Muslims at an early age"Are you fucking serious with this nonsense? I mean WTF are you talking about.Youre just so wrong it's scary. And while we are talking about kids raised to hate........................Have you seen some of the(Clearing my throat)"Schools" in the Middle East and Northern Africa? Lots of good ole fashioned hatred being taught there.no? We are not perfect as a society or a super power but who is.At least we don't lop off heads of people with a dissenting opinion.
so you are saying that christian schools in the south are not teaching kids to hate muslims?
we don't lop heads off, we just blow them up with depleted uranium and white phosphorus so that we not only kill everybody in the area but make the land toxic as well.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
This is ludicrous. Why are we discussing who is worse than who? Can we not grow up and admit fault from more than one party? Hatred for hatred's sake is going to have to be abolished for a long-lasting peace. Justice for justice's sake is going to have to be served for a long-lasting peace. Both sides (i.e. the Western regions and the region of the Middle East) have hated, been victims of hatred. Both sides have suffered injustices, both have caused them. Both sides have some that wish to perpetuate the injustice and hatred, and the opposite.
The only time we should look backwards is if it's necessary to determine the feasibility of a future plan. These past occurrences should be context for the debate, and not the debate itself.
Post edited by benjs on
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EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
This is ludicrous. Why are we discussing who is worse than who? Can we not grow up and admit fault from more than one party? Hatred for hatred's sake is going to have to be abolished for a long-lasting peace. Justice for justice's sake is going to have to be served for a long-lasting peace. Both sides (i.e. the Western regions and the region of the Middle East) have hated, been victims of hatred. Both sides have suffered injustices, both have caused them. Both sides have some that wish to perpetuate the injustice and hatred, and the opposite.
The only time we should look backwards is if it's necessary to determine the feasibility of a future plan. These past occurrences should be context for the debate, and not the debate itself.
i agree. but in a country where the media is owned by corporations who shill for other corporations have a financial stake in war, which is a result of hatred. all we hear about in the us is how terrible isil is, yet our media does not talk about why isil exists. it completely absolves the us of any possible fault. people do not like hearing about their faults. until that changes, there can never be accountability and there can never be peace.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
Drowned cmon man."American Children are taught to hate Muslims at an early age"Are you fucking serious with this nonsense? I mean WTF are you talking about.Youre just so wrong it's scary. And while we are talking about kids raised to hate........................Have you seen some of the(Clearing my throat)"Schools" in the Middle East and Northern Africa? Lots of good ole fashioned hatred being taught there.no? We are not perfect as a society or a super power but who is.At least we don't lop off heads of people with a dissenting opinion.
so you are saying that christian schools in the south are not teaching kids to hate muslims?
we don't lop heads off, we just blow them up with depleted uranium and white phosphorus so that we not only kill everybody in the area but make the land toxic as well.
No,Gimme I have never seen a Christian school teach hate.Im sure you can find a rascist asshole hear or there but As parents who the hell would put up with hate being taught to our children?Thats just crazy talk.We as a country with faults and all are basically filled with good people.I think there may be some biases here or there butI know we are not all about hate.
Drowned cmon man."American Children are taught to hate Muslims at an early age"Are you fucking serious with this nonsense? I mean WTF are you talking about.Youre just so wrong it's scary. And while we are talking about kids raised to hate........................Have you seen some of the(Clearing my throat)"Schools" in the Middle East and Northern Africa? Lots of good ole fashioned hatred being taught there.no? We are not perfect as a society or a super power but who is.At least we don't lop off heads of people with a dissenting opinion. Btw.I don't recall the last time every dude (not women of course)in my town gathered to jump around and burn flags of Muslim countries and pictures of Muslim people.You know fun fake hanging and burnings and things.Maybe pass out candy to the children to "Celebrate" the hate.Shoot guns in the air.
RR we brainwash our kids from an early age and continue through adulthood so that the machine has willing members willing to sacrifice their lives for Freedom. Pledge of FUCKING ALLEGIANCE. HOW FUCKED UP IS HAVING OUR KIDS Pledge TO A FUCKING FLAG. Military hardware flyovers. Always amazed how Americans are critical of North Korean brainwashing yet we do the same. All carefully orchestrated. And worst part!!!!!!! It's for corporate gain. Dick patriotism. Fuck sacrificing your INE life for fucking Halliburton.
Drowned cmon man."American Children are taught to hate Muslims at an early age"Are you fucking serious with this nonsense? I mean WTF are you talking about.Youre just so wrong it's scary. And while we are talking about kids raised to hate........................Have you seen some of the(Clearing my throat)"Schools" in the Middle East and Northern Africa? Lots of good ole fashioned hatred being taught there.no? We are not perfect as a society or a super power but who is.At least we don't lop off heads of people with a dissenting opinion.
so you are saying that christian schools in the south are not teaching kids to hate muslims?
we don't lop heads off, we just blow them up with depleted uranium and white phosphorus so that we not only kill everybody in the area but make the land toxic as well.
No,Gimme I have never seen a Christian school teach hate.Im sure you can find a rascist asshole hear or there but As parents who the hell would put up with hate being taught to our children?Thats just crazy talk.We as a country with faults and all are basically filled with good people.I think there may be some biases here or there butI know we are not all about hate.
what about the ones in the south who claim christianity yet preach white supremacy?
what about the ones who preach jews are bad because they killed jesus?
what about the ones who advocate burning of the koran?
just because the majority of christian schools do not teach this does mean that it doesn't happen.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
Gimme,that's just ignorant assholes and they are in the STL just like here in Fl.Painting with a very wide brush.Some dance with fucking Rattlesnakes and talk in tounges.Def fringe stuff.Im not a Christian and my kid went to a Christian school(for the sports).He didnt have a problem or every see rascist shit.So I see what your saying,But in general We as Americans teach inclusion and diversity not secular exclusion.
Drowned cmon man."American Children are taught to hate Muslims at an early age"Are you fucking serious with this nonsense? I mean WTF are you talking about.Youre just so wrong it's scary. And while we are talking about kids raised to hate........................Have you seen some of the(Clearing my throat)"Schools" in the Middle East and Northern Africa? Lots of good ole fashioned hatred being taught there.no? We are not perfect as a society or a super power but who is.At least we don't lop off heads of people with a dissenting opinion. Btw.I don't recall the last time every dude (not women of course)in my town gathered to jump around and burn flags of Muslim countries and pictures of Muslim people.You know fun fake hanging and burnings and things.Maybe pass out candy to the children to "Celebrate" the hate.Shoot guns in the air.
RR we brainwash our kids from an early age and continue through adulthood so that the machine has willing members willing to sacrifice their lives for Freedom. Pledge of FUCKING ALLEGIANCE. HOW FUCKED UP IS HAVING OUR KIDS Pledge TO A FUCKING FLAG. Military hardware flyovers. Always amazed how Americans are critical of North Korean brainwashing yet we do the same. All carefully orchestrated. And worst part!!!!!!! It's for corporate gain. Dick patriotism. Fuck sacrificing your INE life for fucking Halliburton.
Ahhhhh feel better now.
Ok,take a breath go grab a drink.relax a bit.I blew off the Gym for an early Happy hour so this is getting a little heavy for a Friday afternoon.
You know I agree with many of your posts.On this one I do but I don't.I understand what your saying but I think your looking to deep.I see where the pledge seems silly.But in retrospect Patriotism is a great thing.Espescially when we live in country as wonderful as we do.We are blessed with freedoms and choices and any opportunity we want to work hard for is achievable.Shit our melting pot diversity and culture and spice make this place unique and beautiful.I feel blessed every day to live in a democracy that's free for anything we choose.That freedom is worth recognizing and celebrating.Again we are far from perfect,but compared to most around the world I think we are doing damn good. Flyovers I don't look at as propaganda.I see that more as a salute to the folks who work their tale off,risking life and limb for shit money to protect those freedoms I mentioned.That Deserves a tip of the hat.Total respect for those folks.If we brought 10 k soldiers walking lock step with nukes down Main Street like in N.Korea scaring folks and trying to show how big our dick was,that would be a different story.But when I go to NFL game and get helicopter or bomber fly over that's just cool.
People keep making excuses for inaction while the world burns
People keep mistaking inaction for contemplation, investigation, and long-term analysis. Sometimes, this process of due diligence suggests "stay out" . Just because logic dictates that the best action is something besides immediate action doesn't make it inexcusable inaction - it makes it a logical decision.
As for the second half of your statement - our inevitable destiny is to die at the hands of each other, because we as a species are self-serving, self-absorbed, uncaring, and overall despicable. Fighting our impulses (i.e. the impulse to think of 'me' before 'the greater good') might be the only way to change that, but I'm not counting on that happening any time soon. Hell, at this point there are many of us here more than willing to ignore the horrific results of past impulsive American interventionist campaigns, only to suggest we go right back at it again.
BS, we couldn't be further apart on the topic of Western interventionism. I base my opinion on this topic on historical trends, because support and faith in leadership decisions should not be given blindly - they should be earned. If you feel America has earned that support and faith, that's your prerogative. I don't.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Drowned cmon man."American Children are taught to hate Muslims at an early age"Are you fucking serious with this nonsense? I mean WTF are you talking about.Youre just so wrong it's scary. And while we are talking about kids raised to hate........................Have you seen some of the(Clearing my throat)"Schools" in the Middle East and Northern Africa? Lots of good ole fashioned hatred being taught there.no? We are not perfect as a society or a super power but who is.At least we don't lop off heads of people with a dissenting opinion. Btw.I don't recall the last time every dude (not women of course)in my town gathered to jump around and burn flags of Muslim countries and pictures of Muslim people.You know fun fake hanging and burnings and things.Maybe pass out candy to the children to "Celebrate" the hate.Shoot guns in the air.
RR we brainwash our kids from an early age and continue through adulthood so that the machine has willing members willing to sacrifice their lives for Freedom. Pledge of FUCKING ALLEGIANCE. HOW FUCKED UP IS HAVING OUR KIDS Pledge TO A FUCKING FLAG. Military hardware flyovers. Always amazed how Americans are critical of North Korean brainwashing yet we do the same. All carefully orchestrated. And worst part!!!!!!! It's for corporate gain. Dick patriotism. Fuck sacrificing your INE life for fucking Halliburton.
Ahhhhh feel better now.
Ok,take a breath go grab a drink.relax a bit.I blew off the Gym for an early Happy hour so this is getting a little heavy for a Friday afternoon.
You know I agree with many of your posts.On this one I do but I don't.I understand what your saying but I think your looking to deep.I see where the pledge seems silly.But in retrospect Patriotism is a great thing.Espescially when we live in country as wonderful as we do.We are blessed with freedoms and choices and any opportunity we want to work hard for is achievable.Shit our melting pot diversity and culture and spice make this place unique and beautiful.I feel blessed every day to live in a democracy that's free for anything we choose.That freedom is worth recognizing and celebrating.Again we are far from perfect,but compared to most around the world I think we are doing damn good. Flyovers I don't look at as propaganda.I see that more as a salute to the folks who work their tale off,risking life and limb for shit money to protect those freedoms I mentioned.That Deserves a tip of the hat.Total respect for those folks.If we brought 10 k soldiers walking lock step with nukes down Main Street like in N.Korea scaring folks and trying to show how big our dick was,that would be a different story.But when I go to NFL game and get helicopter or bomber fly over that's just cool.
It's all propaganda. It's all rallying around Our Team. Fly byes are exactly that. We look up and see how great our team is. Ever wonder why the religious have big churches. Egyptian and Mayan leaders built great temples, how Kim in NK and Russians roll out their hardware during parades. All propaganda and humans just fall for it all. Well most. Can't go to nascar race and have ability (Daytona ) to do so as it's hard to watch all the BS. Goes back to Supporting the Troops BS. Your (not you) not supporting shit.
AND the pledge is anything but silly. It's brainwashing just as what the Evildoers do. We are no better. Reality bites.
Comments
the notion that somehow the united states can claim moral high ground on indiscriminate killing is laughable.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
War and violence are a way of life over there.Not just at our hands.Cmon.Be realistic.I know it sounds brash but those children(including the ones handed guns to kill or are taught to hate westerners and Jews and Christians from an early age) have to grow up in societies based on hate and violence.When these countries clean up their own mess then they(u) can point the fingers back at us.It is the mindset of people over there that breed this hate.
Theories and connecting of the dots be damned.
As for violent society, pot and kettle. I think it's fair to say other countries may get a skewed view from media outlets as to the state of the American nation: White christian kids shooting up their classmates, a political system so polarized no one can agree on the color of the sky.
War and violence are as much a tenant of American society as it is anywhere else in the world.
When you bomb a shopping district, destroy social outlets, impose sanctions on whole towns and cities, it becomes a little nasty to then criticise the locals for lining up for handouts.
I wish we would leave the area also .maybe all the Idiots would kill themselves and each other if we did.That would do the world a favor.That would keep us out of it.If somehow we could get those countries to remove their lips from weening on Americas huge supple teet.But that's not going to happen is it.So let's talk about how we the west fucked the middle east and all are just poor victims of our actions like there was no violence or ass backwards suppressions of human rights.Fuck that.Dont cast blame.
last i checked, we were over there in their region for one reason.
oil.
we have rigged elections, overthrown elected regimes, sided with countries like israel because we need a foothold in the region. all because they have oil, and we need oil. ergo, we meddle over there to make sure that our interests are not harmed.
let us not pretend that it is any other way, please.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Egypt-2billion
Pakistan-2.3 billion
Iraq-1.6 billion
Egypt-1.5 billion
Afghan -2.4 billion
Israel 3 billion
Just a few.
American children are taught to hate muslims at an early age – did you know there is an actual islamphobia industry in the US? People funding that agenda? Look at the increase in hate crimes against muslims since 9/11, then since Hebdo. Look at the number of countries the US has been involved in military actions in, compared to middle eastern countries fighting beyond their borders. Your post is American exceptionalism defined. How much influence do middle eastern countries have on the violence here, compared to our influence on violence there? It’s not even close. Your society is as based on hate and violence as any in the world…..War is a way of life in America more than ANY country in the world, by FAR. Just because you don’t see tanks and jets outside your window doesn’t mean it isn’t so; it just allows you the comfortable illusion of moral superiority.
And no, there is no difference between collateral damage and random attacks on soft targets…Collateral damage is all about minimizing deaths on ‘our’ side while still achieving our goal – keeping our soldiers out of harm’s way at the cost of civilian lives on the other side. Attacking soft targets is pretty much doing the same thing.
are they really on our teat, or are we paying them just enough money for them to let us have our way in the middle east?
in all honesty though that is just a drop in the bucket of what we pay corporations in the defense industry.
your statement of what we give israel is actually on the low end. we have given them 4 billion in money and military equipment for a few years now.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
And while we are talking about kids raised to hate........................Have you seen some of the(Clearing my throat)"Schools" in the Middle East and Northern Africa? Lots of good ole fashioned hatred being taught there.no?
We are not perfect as a society or a super power but who is.At least we don't lop off heads of people with a dissenting opinion.
Btw.I don't recall the last time every dude (not women of course)in my town gathered to jump around and burn flags of Muslim countries and pictures of Muslim people.You know fun fake hanging and burnings and things.Maybe pass out candy to the children to "Celebrate" the hate.Shoot guns in the air.
we don't lop heads off, we just blow them up with depleted uranium and white phosphorus so that we not only kill everybody in the area but make the land toxic as well.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
The only time we should look backwards is if it's necessary to determine the feasibility of a future plan. These past occurrences should be context for the debate, and not the debate itself.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Ahhhhh feel better now.
what about the ones who preach jews are bad because they killed jesus?
what about the ones who advocate burning of the koran?
just because the majority of christian schools do not teach this does mean that it doesn't happen.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
You know I agree with many of your posts.On this one I do but I don't.I understand what your saying but I think your looking to deep.I see where the pledge seems silly.But in retrospect Patriotism is a great thing.Espescially when we live in country as wonderful as we do.We are blessed with freedoms and choices and any opportunity we want to work hard for is achievable.Shit our melting pot diversity and culture and spice make this place unique and beautiful.I feel blessed every day to live in a democracy that's free for anything we choose.That freedom is worth recognizing and celebrating.Again we are far from perfect,but compared to most around the world I think we are doing damn good.
Flyovers I don't look at as propaganda.I see that more as a salute to the folks who work their tale off,risking life and limb for shit money to protect those freedoms I mentioned.That Deserves a tip of the hat.Total respect for those folks.If we brought 10 k soldiers walking lock step with nukes down Main Street like in N.Korea scaring folks and trying to show how big our dick was,that would be a different story.But when I go to NFL game and get helicopter or bomber fly over that's just cool.
As for the second half of your statement - our inevitable destiny is to die at the hands of each other, because we as a species are self-serving, self-absorbed, uncaring, and overall despicable. Fighting our impulses (i.e. the impulse to think of 'me' before 'the greater good') might be the only way to change that, but I'm not counting on that happening any time soon. Hell, at this point there are many of us here more than willing to ignore the horrific results of past impulsive American interventionist campaigns, only to suggest we go right back at it again.
BS, we couldn't be further apart on the topic of Western interventionism. I base my opinion on this topic on historical trends, because support and faith in leadership decisions should not be given blindly - they should be earned. If you feel America has earned that support and faith, that's your prerogative. I don't.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
AND the pledge is anything but silly. It's brainwashing just as what the Evildoers do. We are no better. Reality bites.