Beheaded by ISIS

Godfather.

benjs said:

Godfather. said:

benjs said:

Godfather. said:

benjs said:

Godfather. said:

wipe em all out I'm tired of reading about thier shit

chadwick said:

or if not by isis how about beheaded by whackjob meat processing plant worker in oklahoma

who happens to be a muslim and an isis supporter......


Godfather.

rgambs said:

benjs said:

rgambs said:

How does byrnzie get banned for sticking up for himself and godfather can come in here literally calling for genocide?

I wish I knew.

Me too. It's sad, blatant racism and homophobia are allowed to exist alongside calls for murder of innocent children, because it is labelled as an opinion, or someone's "feelings", but if you debate aggressively and respond to a troll harshly you are out.

The bolded part above particularly blows me away. That's not even masked. Thank you Godfather, for sharing your bigotry you consider enlightenment and, go figure, without an ounce of supporting evidence.

evidence ?...really ? good grief man just watch any news source or even social media ...... :-t


Godfather.

Yes, I am asking you to provide adequate evidence that suggests we should "wipe them all out" in spite of the civilian casualties that intervention would cause. And evidence that suggests that when we "wipe them all out" (assuming "we" could exclusively kill each and every member of IS), another brutal extremist group wouldn't come right back fighting for the right to ownership of their own territory and resources without intervention from the largest militaristic superpower who happens to reside a ten hours' flight away. If you are asking for IS to justify their actions or be condemned when their actions involve killing, why not hold the US (the noble, democratic utopia that it is) to the same standards?

if I said go jump off a bridge would you do it ? or do you have enough common sense to realize I was not serious...and even better you finally got to use the B (bigotry) word and that in it self must be a real hum-dinger to a super crime fighter like yourself so run like the wind super hero ) and go catch those nasty homophobic GENOcidel biggoted blog nastys...
then take it ez for a while.


Godfather.

Godfather, if you told me to jump off a bridge, I'd ask you why, and you'd proceed to walk away from the conversation laughing instead of giving me a reason as with any other of your unsubstantiated claims, opinions, or proposals for action.

Your so-called jokes, as I've pointed out to you before - are not funny. It is NOT funny to tell Muslims not to get their "head wraps in a wad". It is NOT funny to propose "wiping them all out" (and backtracking to claim you were joking doesn't make it any better). It is insensitive, and amounts to barely masked racism. It is offensive. I tell the same thing to my parents when they present their bigotry. And I tell myself the same thing whenever an unfounded thought based on prejudice creeps into my head.

My raison d'être here is to learn first and to share second (and the sharing typically is just a means to more learning). Any form of nastiness, homophobia, affection for genocide or bigotry are mere obfuscations from legitimate information gathering and sharing: and that's the exclusive reason I waste my time (and I do consider it a waste since I have yet to see a semblance of a logical statement or rebuttal from you) responding. I'd love to hear the reason you post here. Is it to teach? Is it to learn? Or is it to introduce conflict and distract from meaningful conversation?

Benjs this seems to be very important to you and I'm sorry you and I can't see these issues in the same way,we have two very different ideas and opinions on many issues but nobody's right if everybody's wrong .......yes I stole that, and I have a habbit of saying things that some people want to say but are afraid to, I and others get angry at what is going on and we don't want to read / hear excuses I / we have every right to my/our opinion just as you and others do right ?


Godfather.

Drowned Out

edit: fucking draft feature and the way this board quotes is going to get me in trouble someday. So much f'n text in the box that once I hit quote I can't tell if I have a draft mixed in. ugh.

Jason P said:

Drowned Out said:

Jason P said:

NEO Journal makes Fox News look fair and balanced.

Yawn. Care to refute anything he says, or would you prefer to attack the source? The author has written for many alt-media outlets....tho I'm sure you'd say none of them were credible either.

OK. I would not call the Syrian army shooting down a Turkish aircraft in 2012 a fabricated story.

The NEO website does give me insight on your statements of what you believe is going on in the Ukraine.

Don't remember seeing that in the article I posted.
I've said here before and will again - much of the information I get comes from globalresearch.ca
It's a consortium of journalists, bloggers, and profs, with a focus on globalization and the wars waged to continue toward that goal. The reporting there is sometimes sensational, but always backed up, often footnoted and researchable. Not bullshit sound bytes. I'm not ashamed to admit that I read alternative news sources and I think the reporting is much more accurate than the mainstream corporate media in North America. But I still read it critically.
Soooo...instead of more cheap shots at my views, and vague comments on the website - try disputing a claim. Saying you disagree and leaving it at that gives you about as much credibility as...that other guy. Let's hear WHY you think whatever you read, was wrong.

Drowned Out

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Drowned Out said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Drowned Out said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I agree with the overwhelming sentiment here that the blanket Muslim statements spun from ISIS actions are very damaging and naïve.



At its core level and among many other horrific acts... an ISIS member is taking a knife and severing someone's head. It takes a special type of person to do something like that- one certainly not beyond reproach.

(as you seem to see it) with the IS.

explain to me how someone so personally detached (physically detached might be a better way to frame it) feels the need to take up arms with ISIS in a country he had previously never set foot in and contribute to the violence they pursue?

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

callen said:

Thirty. Propaganda, same crap that aligns us to kill.

Can you show examples of posts that defend ISIS?

When a post is offered that speak to the brutality of ISIS, it is generally countered with a post that speaks to their motivation.

The optics of such dialogue seem to present an attitude that displays a level of tolerance given how ISIS has gotten to here.

I have a feeling this is going to circle the bowl pretty quickly....we're both saying the same thing to each other. You've not provided specific examples showing what you've perceived as defense of ISIS, just reinforced your 'accusation' (that word seems to strong but you know what I mean), by saying 'it's generally countered with a post that speaks to their motivation'. Again - how would you like this thread to play out? Just "I hate ISIS - see link"....and that's it? That's what MSNBC, CNN, and FOX are for. We can do better. There is nothing wrong with providing perspectives on the reasons for the proliferation of extremism, and what we feel can be done about it without stooping to the levels of violence we see from the IS and western militaries.
As for making something out of nothing - I didn't really suggest that you are legitimizing western violence....but you did separate the violence of ISIS from our violence by suggesting that it takes a special kind of person to kill someone with a knife. Your response seems to contradict your first comment.

As for people leaving to take up arms with ISIS....I've said this a few times here lately - people are tired of the US meddling in the middle east. People are tired of being sold down the war path on lies and misinformation. People are tired of feeling powerless against corrupt governments. People, even in at home, see the US as the world's biggest threat to peace, and some think the only way to end their reign is to bring them down with violence. ISIS is the enemy du jour - the only army actively working against the US at the moment. I don't know the background of the guy you're talking about....But I don't think it's really all that surprising that mentally unstable people with violent tendencies, unresolved hatred, or blind faith, would volunteer to go to war. It happens with our own militaries all the time. And this is not defending this choice of action...in fact I'm against it on both sides. But there is a difference between empathy and sympathy.

As long as meaningful discussion occurs, this thread can play out any way it might. Your point works both ways: are threads any better if everyone says "I hate the US and they are responsible for... (see link)"?

You asked for a post which provides a 'specific example of a defence of ISIS'. Then you proceed to write: As for people leaving to take up arms with ISIS....I've said this a few times here lately - people are tired of the US meddling in the middle east. People are tired of being sold down the war path on lies and misinformation. People are tired of feeling powerless against corrupt governments. People, even in at home, see the US as the world's biggest threat to peace, and some think the only way to end their reign is to bring them down with violence. ISIS is the enemy du jour - the only army actively working against the US at the moment.

Read these words. Now, I wouldn't necessarily disagree with what you have written, but these words- like many others before them- tend to leave the reader with the impression (no... not 'specific'... but an impression nonetheless) that a defence can be made for the actions of ISIS if one simply took the time to understand why they have come to this position.

More alarming to me than the beheadings is the fact that ISIS is engaged in an aggressive and hostile ethnic cleansing effort. Americans aren't the only people who have motivated this group to such levels of hostility.

you didn't provide the specific examples we asked for; instead you asked me how anyone would feel the need to fight for ISIS....then you use my answer as your example? haha...bait much?

Jason P

Drowned Out said:

edit: fucking draft feature and the way this board quotes is going to get me in trouble someday. So much f'n text in the box that once I hit quote I can't tell if I have a draft mixed in. ugh.

Jason P said:

Drowned Out said:

Jason P said:

NEO Journal makes Fox News look fair and balanced.

Yawn. Care to refute anything he says, or would you prefer to attack the source? The author has written for many alt-media outlets....tho I'm sure you'd say none of them were credible either.

OK. I would not call the Syrian army shooting down a Turkish aircraft in 2012 a fabricated story.

The NEO website does give me insight on your statements of what you believe is going on in the Ukraine.

Don't remember seeing that in the article I posted.
I've said here before and will again - much of the information I get comes from globalresearch.ca
It's a consortium of journalists, bloggers, and profs, with a focus on globalization and the wars waged to continue toward that goal. The reporting there is sometimes sensational, but always backed up, often footnoted and researchable. Not bullshit sound bytes. I'm not ashamed to admit that I read alternative news sources and I think the reporting is much more accurate than the mainstream corporate media in North America. But I still read it critically.
Soooo...instead of more cheap shots at my views, and vague comments on the website - try disputing a claim. Saying you disagree and leaving it at that gives you about as much credibility as...that other guy. Let's hear WHY you think whatever you read, was wrong.

The article stated non specific Turkish border incidents in 2012 as being fabricated. The downing of a Turkish airplane was the most significant incident of 2012, so when a journalist makes reference of significant 2012 Turkish / Syria incidents that they interpret are fabricated, they should make clear when stating if fabricated incidents include a potential war inciting incident by the shooting down of a Turkish airplane.

Drowned Out ... I appreciate your views even though half of them make my head twirl. My perspective is that your view of US policy may factor in your opinions, but I'm confused why you are so ready to back Eastern policy. I will acknowledge US policy downfall, probably 50/50 on this site (ok maybe 25% / 75%). Putin and his KGB policy are fighting a proxy war and you (I perceive) are in favor of it. I could be wrong.

Anywho, PJ rocks, you seem cool, and I'd love to hammer a beer before a PJ concert with you. If you are going to be in Minnesota in a few weeks, send me a PM.

PEACE!

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Drowned Out said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Drowned Out said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Drowned Out said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I agree with the overwhelming sentiment here that the blanket Muslim statements spun from ISIS actions are very damaging and naïve.



At its core level and among many other horrific acts... an ISIS member is taking a knife and severing someone's head. It takes a special type of person to do something like that- one certainly not beyond reproach.

(as you seem to see it) with the IS.

explain to me how someone so personally detached (physically detached might be a better way to frame it) feels the need to take up arms with ISIS in a country he had previously never set foot in and contribute to the violence they pursue?

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

callen said:

Thirty. Propaganda, same crap that aligns us to kill.

Can you show examples of posts that defend ISIS?

When a post is offered that speak to the brutality of ISIS, it is generally countered with a post that speaks to their motivation.

The optics of such dialogue seem to present an attitude that displays a level of tolerance given how ISIS has gotten to here.

I have a feeling this is going to circle the bowl pretty quickly....we're both saying the same thing to each other. You've not provided specific examples showing what you've perceived as defense of ISIS, just reinforced your 'accusation' (that word seems to strong but you know what I mean), by saying 'it's generally countered with a post that speaks to their motivation'. Again - how would you like this thread to play out? Just "I hate ISIS - see link"....and that's it? That's what MSNBC, CNN, and FOX are for. We can do better. There is nothing wrong with providing perspectives on the reasons for the proliferation of extremism, and what we feel can be done about it without stooping to the levels of violence we see from the IS and western militaries.
As for making something out of nothing - I didn't really suggest that you are legitimizing western violence....but you did separate the violence of ISIS from our violence by suggesting that it takes a special kind of person to kill someone with a knife. Your response seems to contradict your first comment.

As for people leaving to take up arms with ISIS....I've said this a few times here lately - people are tired of the US meddling in the middle east. People are tired of being sold down the war path on lies and misinformation. People are tired of feeling powerless against corrupt governments. People, even in at home, see the US as the world's biggest threat to peace, and some think the only way to end their reign is to bring them down with violence. ISIS is the enemy du jour - the only army actively working against the US at the moment. I don't know the background of the guy you're talking about....But I don't think it's really all that surprising that mentally unstable people with violent tendencies, unresolved hatred, or blind faith, would volunteer to go to war. It happens with our own militaries all the time. And this is not defending this choice of action...in fact I'm against it on both sides. But there is a difference between empathy and sympathy.

As long as meaningful discussion occurs, this thread can play out any way it might. Your point works both ways: are threads any better if everyone says "I hate the US and they are responsible for... (see link)"?

You asked for a post which provides a 'specific example of a defence of ISIS'. Then you proceed to write: As for people leaving to take up arms with ISIS....I've said this a few times here lately - people are tired of the US meddling in the middle east. People are tired of being sold down the war path on lies and misinformation. People are tired of feeling powerless against corrupt governments. People, even in at home, see the US as the world's biggest threat to peace, and some think the only way to end their reign is to bring them down with violence. ISIS is the enemy du jour - the only army actively working against the US at the moment.

Read these words. Now, I wouldn't necessarily disagree with what you have written, but these words- like many others before them- tend to leave the reader with the impression (no... not 'specific'... but an impression nonetheless) that a defence can be made for the actions of ISIS if one simply took the time to understand why they have come to this position.

More alarming to me than the beheadings is the fact that ISIS is engaged in an aggressive and hostile ethnic cleansing effort. Americans aren't the only people who have motivated this group to such levels of hostility.

you didn't provide the specific examples we asked for; instead you asked me how anyone would feel the need to fight for ISIS....then you use my answer as your example? haha...bait much?

Huh?

I consistently said there was nothing 'specific'... mentioning only the fact that there was an 'impression' left on readers that some seem to deny.

Conveniently, or ironically, you promptly provided yet another mild rationalization (for lack of better description) of the ISIS mindset for the moment. My question was not designed to solicit a response that I could use as ammunition against you. This was a serendipitous event that I took advantage of- so relax.

Unless you wish to continue with this... I like Dignin's post (ignored to this point) with his reference to our indifference towards Africa and their struggles throughout the last few decades. I had the good fortune to see Romeo Dallaire speak on the Rwandan genocide- I'm sure you recall he was the UN appointed commander to the peace-keeping operation overseeing the Rwandan crisis. Rwanda affected me greatly back in the early 90s.

He spoke to a couple of items that were very interesting and thought-provoking. In particular, he stated that 9-11 was an expression of rage and at some point in time, the world will bear witness to a profound expression of rage from Africans.

I need to look more into the Congo situation. I have read extensively on the Rwandan genocide and have studied Liberia, but- sad to say- I feel I am in the dark somewhat regarding what I read in Dignin's post. I guess I'm stating the fact that I'm a victim of mainstream media more than I'd care to admit.

Idris

on Africa/AFRICOM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY9cdVtwUhQ#t=44

Drowned Out

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Huh?

I consistently said there was nothing 'specific'... mentioning only the fact that there was an 'impression' left on readers that some seem to deny.

Conveniently, or ironically, you promptly provided yet another mild rationalization (for lack of better description) of the ISIS mindset for the moment. My question was not designed to solicit a response that I could use as ammunition against you. This was a serendipitous event that I took advantage of- so relax.

Unless you wish to continue with this...

I'm relaxed man...not sure why you think I was fired up...aside from my bitching about the drafts/quotes here. that does piss me off lol
I think maybe the impression you mention might be more of a personal thing than a common attitude amongst the readers here. or maybe I'm misunderstood. My comments are about empathy, as I mentioned before...not sympathy. Seems a bit of a common theme in your capital punishment threads as well...trying to gain insight to crime is portayed (non-specifically) as sympathy. This implication stifles discussion - makes it about the author's beliefs. You even say you don't disagree with me, so what is your point? As ben mentioned earlier, examining causality is an important and often under-emphasized part of effecting change.

Jason P said:

The article stated non specific Turkish border incidents in 2012 as being fabricated. The downing of a Turkish airplane was the most significant incident of 2012, so when a journalist makes reference of significant 2012 Turkish / Syria incidents that they interpret are fabricated, they should make clear when stating if fabricated incidents include a potential war inciting incident by the shooting down of a Turkish airplane.

Drowned Out ... I appreciate your views even though half of them make my head twirl. My perspective is that your view of US policy may factor in your opinions, but I'm confused why you are so ready to back Eastern policy. I will acknowledge US policy downfall, probably 50/50 on this site (ok maybe 25% / 75%). Putin and his KGB policy are fighting a proxy war and you (I perceive) are in favor of it. I could be wrong.

Anywho, PJ rocks, you seem cool, and I'd love to hammer a beer before a PJ concert with you. If you are going to be in Minnesota in a few weeks, send me a PM.

PEACE!

Hey...there is so much disinformation in the world that to believe something without a TON of research is folly.....but I admit to getting off on the head-twirling....if I can make yours stop twirling at 75%/25% once in a hundred spins, I'm happy )
I don't back Eastern policy...but I can see why you'd think that based on my news sources. They are definitely critical of western policy moreso than eastern. But you can't tell me that western policy is not a bazillion times more invasive, pervasive, and aggressive than eastern. As I've mentioned before, Russia's military disputes in recent history have almost exclusively dealt with Soviet satellite states, and countering NATO encroachment into their historical territories. I've admitted in the Ukraine threads that yes, I have zero doubt that Russia is involved in a proxy war there, and that it would be beyond naïve to think they are being 100% honest about their intentions and actions. But we've been provided a smoking gun to confirm the US backed the coup in an important, traditionally Russian-heritage state that borders and feeds Russia proper, and provides the main shipping corridors to Europe for their resources....and I perceive that you are in favour of that. For what reason? I think you alluded at some point to something about the brutality and/or their subservience to Moscow of the previous government? Well there have been a ton of reports of war crimes - mass graves etc, from the new government. Anyway - we're off topic now.

Now -the Turkish military plane thing. While I agree that it is a pretty big omission - one that I missed when reading the article (thanks for pointing it out), I can understand why the author chose to omit it if he believes it was a fabrication or a setup. It would have been a huge tangent to explain why he believes this. I took some time to read up on the incident the other night because I had only a vague recollection of it, and you called it the most significant story of 2012 (!?)...first - this was one in a series of events that happened between Turkey and Syria in the lead up to a Syrian civil war that Turkey has had it's hands all over. It wasn't an isolated provocation by Syria...there were a series of incidents on both sides that had people concerned about all-out war between the two states. Turkey essentially hijacked a Syrian commercial airliner a couple months later....forced it down with fighters and stole it's cargo. I read a series of measured responses to the downing of the Turkish military plane from most of the world....and then there was the US - calling for Assad to be ousted in retaliation. Keep in mind that they have been working to sell the world on regime change in Syria for years, and 2012 was when it kicked into hyper drive. The US media consistently omitted and obfuscated the fact that the plane was shot down over Syrian air space, after 'coming in low and fast' (later justified as a radar systems test.....lol), and we should be asking why they would omit that. Kind of crucial to the story. By this standard, the recent downing of the two Syrian military jets over occupied Golan should be the most significant story of 2014; a huge international scandal worthy of demanding Nettanyahu's head over, no?

Anyway - my point to all of this is not to try to always be right, because I have no idea if I am half the time ) I try to provide different perspectives to the news in the west is all. globalresearch provides that in spades. Although it does link to articles by RT, PressTV, and other outlets from 'the other side'....the majority of their contributors are western-based. They also take the time to compare their stance to those provided in western media. They pick apart mainstream articles in their analysis. Never do you hear the Eastern side of world events in our mainstream media, let alone a thorough examination of it.

Enjoy your show(s?) Jason - wish I could tip a few with ya (would like that), but it's looking like 2013 will be my first PJ-less year since 07 :( cheers!

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Drowned out... Matts made the initial post that referred to the 'impression' that was left on him after reading various posts. I concurred that this 'impression' was left upon me as well after reading the same posts.

That's as much as I want to get into this- it's become a petty argument now (one that I have helped build). It's unfortunate that we couldn't teletransport to a location to discuss these things sometimes. I feel much is lost in translation that wouldn't be if one could see facial expressions, read body language, and not infer as much.

Drowned Out

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Drowned out... Matts made the initial post that referred to the 'impression' that was left on him after reading various posts. I concurred that this 'impression' was left upon me as well after reading the same posts.

That's as much as I want to get into this- it's become a petty argument now (one that I have helped build). It's unfortunate that we couldn't teletransport to a location to discuss these things sometimes. I feel much is lost in translation that wouldn't be if one could see facial expressions, read body language, and not infer as much.

word! I agree man. Tho I would be exposed as a dumb-ass fraud without google at my fingertips

Jason P

Obama's approval rating has went up 8% since we started dropping bombs.

Idris

Jason P said:

Obama's approval rating has went up 8% since we started dropping bombs.

Is that true?

Drowned Out

smh....guess he's a STRONG president now. makes me sick.

rgambs

Drowned Out said:

smh....guess he's a STRONG president now. makes me sick.

Exactly.

rgambs

I'm surprised sometimes that the American populace hasn't voted the pissing contest as our national sport and lobbied it into the Olympics.

Jason P

Idris said:

Jason P said:

Obama's approval rating has went up 8% since we started dropping bombs.

Is that true?

I wasn't totally clear. The approval rating of his military handling of ISIS has gone up 8 points. Not sure if his overall approval rating has changed.

thefiscaltimes.com/2014/10/02/Obama-s-Approval-Rating-Climbs-More-We-Bomb-ISIS

Bear in mind I know of no one who has ever taken part in any of these so-called polls.

Drowned Out

Jason P said:

Idris said:

Jason P said:

Obama's approval rating has went up 8% since we started dropping bombs.

Is that true?

I wasn't totally clear. The approval rating of his military handling of ISIS has gone up 8 points. Not sure if his overall approval rating has changed.

thefiscaltimes.com/2014/10/02/Obama-s-Approval-Rating-Climbs-More-We-Bomb-ISIS

Bear in mind I know of no one who has ever taken part in any of these so-called polls.

good point. everyone jump on the bandwagon.

mattsl1983

Again, and after reading the responses to my post, it's a sad world. Self appointed know it also still justify Isis. Whether they realize it or not, they are. Blame this, blame that. It's not their fault right? Wouldn't you react the same way? Some of you may not realize that you are justifying their actions with saying "but" or "in the past". Let's get over that and face the world for what it is?

badbrains

mattsl1983 said:

Again, and after reading the responses to my post, it's a sad world. Self appointed know it also still justify Isis. Whether they realize it or not, they are. Blame this, blame that. It's not their fault right? Wouldn't you react the same way? Some of you may not realize that you are justifying their actions with saying "but" or "in the past". Let's get over that and face the world for what it is?

Maybe you mite need to face the world for what it REALLY is.

benjs

mattsl1983 said:

Again, and after reading the responses to my post, it's a sad world. Self appointed know it also still justify Isis. Whether they realize it or not, they are. Blame this, blame that. It's not their fault right? Wouldn't you react the same way? Some of you may not realize that you are justifying their actions with saying "but" or "in the past". Let's get over that and face the world for what it is?

In regards to IS, I think you need to zoom out a little bit and look at the bigger picture here.
Let's get a few premises straight here:

1) IS is disgusting in their actions, and their actions are worthy of strong and unwavering global condemnation.
2) IS ought to be be destroyed.

And this is where we reach the divide.

Interventionist premises include:

1) America is a humanitarian force with the capability of destroying great evil.
2) "With great power comes great responsibility" (Yes, I do believe Obama's foreign affairs policy is largely inspired by Spiderman).

Anti-Western Interventionist premises include:

1) Interventionism has been demonstrated historically to reset cycles of extremism
2) Dealing with a byproduct (or effect) instead of the trigger (or cause) in a problem ensures it will repeat, and not gradually extinguish over time.

By the way, you have done several things worth bringing to your and everyone else's attention here:
1) "It's a sad world". In this, you have expressed a bleakness of the world we all live in, with an attempt of presenting a dour and hopeless global landscape. "It's a sad world" should not affect whether I take an interventionist or non-interventionist approach to this particular political situation.
2) It is a fallacious attack on people to call them "self-appointed know-it-alls" when they go out of their way to share others' opinions from a litany of sources, express their own opinions and allow themselves to be swayed when alternative logic (i.e. with evidence) is presented. Honestly, this far, all I've seen you do here is actually condemn people for that reason. Maybe looking critically at yourself is something that you might want to try, at least in parallel to looking critically of everyone else (if not way before).
3) "Whether they realize it, they are". In this sentence, you present the majority of the board here as not only indoctrinated, but unaware of this fact. By using "they", you pigeon-hole everyone who isn't you into this group, and by effect, place yourself on a moral pedestal because everyone else is now lower and "out of control" of our thought process.
4) "It's not their fault right? Wouldn't you react the same way?" In these sentences, you mock the notion of empathy when applied to people who you disagree with. This is only my opinion, but I practice empathy to even the most disgusting of human beings. Very few sane people kill just for killing's sake, if only for the reason that we typically bow down to the almighty dollar, and a killing for killing's sake doesn't generate profit. As for the insane people - they're typically not too concerned with the press: they're just happy to kill. Universal empathy takes you away from societal indoctrinations, and allows you to seek out an opinion without prejudice, come to conclusions, and start to recognize the causality and potential solutions with less of the fog of bias.
5) "Let's get over that and face the world for what it is". In this sentence, based on your context, you seem to be suggesting that we stop observing cause and effect relationships, and focus on destroying the effects. Also, you also introduce the notion that if we do not focus on byproducts instead of triggers, we have a skewed and deluded sense of what the world is. Again, this is fallacious: it is simply an opinion which does not mirror yours.

The irony is that in another thread (http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/238361/imagine-really-imagine-what-the-world-would-be) you seem to be presenting thought control as hugely dangerous. Then, over here, you post this, which as I've suggested up above this, is straight out of the undue and unethical indoctrination handbook, and is littered with fallacies. If you care to dispute them, here's a great site (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/pdf/FallaciesPoster16x24.pdf).

I've found: strawman, black-or-white, slippery slope, false cause, ad hominem, bandwagon, no true scotsman, appeal to emotion.

badbrains

benjs said:

mattsl1983 said:

Again, and after reading the responses to my post, it's a sad world. Self appointed know it also still justify Isis. Whether they realize it or not, they are. Blame this, blame that. It's not their fault right? Wouldn't you react the same way? Some of you may not realize that you are justifying their actions with saying "but" or "in the past". Let's get over that and face the world for what it is?

In regards to IS, I think you need to zoom out a little bit and look at the bigger picture here.
Let's get a few premises straight here:

1) IS is disgusting in their actions, and their actions are worthy of strong and unwavering global condemnation.
2) IS ought to be be destroyed.

And this is where we reach the divide.

Interventionist premises include:

1) America is a humanitarian force with the capability of destroying great evil.
2) "With great power comes great responsibility" (Yes, I do believe Obama's foreign affairs policy is largely inspired by Spiderman).

Anti-Western Interventionist premises include:

1) Interventionism has been demonstrated historically to reset cycles of extremism
2) Dealing with a byproduct (or effect) instead of the trigger (or cause) in a problem ensures it will repeat, and not gradually extinguish over time.

By the way, you have done several things worth bringing to your and everyone else's attention here:
1) "It's a sad world". In this, you have expressed a bleakness of the world we all live in, with an attempt of presenting a dour and hopeless global landscape. "It's a sad world" should not affect whether I take an interventionist or non-interventionist approach to this particular political situation.
2) It is a fallacious attack on people to call them "self-appointed know-it-alls" when they go out of their way to share others' opinions from a litany of sources, express their own opinions and allow themselves to be swayed when alternative logic (i.e. with evidence) is presented. Honestly, this far, all I've seen you do here is actually condemn people for that reason. Maybe looking critically at yourself is something that you might want to try, at least in parallel to looking critically of everyone else (if not way before).
3) "Whether they realize it, they are". In this sentence, you present the majority of the board here as not only indoctrinated, but unaware of this fact. By using "they", you pigeon-hole everyone who isn't you into this group, and by effect, place yourself on a moral pedestal because everyone else is now lower and "out of control" of our thought process.
4) "It's not their fault right? Wouldn't you react the same way?" In these sentences, you mock the notion of empathy when applied to people who you disagree with. This is only my opinion, but I practice empathy to even the most disgusting of human beings. Very few sane people kill just for killing's sake, if only for the reason that we typically bow down to the almighty dollar, and a killing for killing's sake doesn't generate profit. As for the insane people - they're typically not too concerned with the press: they're just happy to kill. Universal empathy takes you away from societal indoctrinations, and allows you to seek out an opinion without prejudice, come to conclusions, and start to recognize the causality and potential solutions with less of the fog of bias.
5) "Let's get over that and face the world for what it is". In this sentence, based on your context, you seem to be suggesting that we stop observing cause and effect relationships, and focus on destroying the effects. Also, you also introduce the notion that if we do not focus on byproducts instead of triggers, we have a skewed and deluded sense of what the world is. Again, this is fallacious: it is simply an opinion which does not mirror yours.

The irony is that in another thread (http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/238361/imagine-really-imagine-what-the-world-would-be) you seem to be presenting thought control as hugely dangerous. Then, over here, you post this, which as I've suggested up above this, is straight out of the undue and unethical indoctrination handbook, and is littered with fallacies. If you care to dispute them, here's a great site (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/pdf/FallaciesPoster16x24.pdf).

I've found: strawman, black-or-white, slippery slope, false cause, ad hominem, bandwagon, no true scotsman, appeal to emotion.

Ben, i couldn't have said it any better my friend. You're such a "know it all" hahahaha