Forgetting the many things in their religious text that make it clear that women are not equal according to Islam, that isn't even relevant since that's not reality, and the way that Islam may have been twisted as it has intertwined with culture is what actually matters. If i gave the impression that I thought it was all about pure Islamicism, I didn't mean to.... not that it helps. Remember, I am strongly anti-organized religion. I could talk about how various branches of Christianity lead to this same problem, past and present.
BTW, your point about women praying separately (and it's often not just behind them btw. It's sometimes at the back of the room in a separate walled off room) from men because they don't want the men to think about fucking them while praying? That did not make the point I think you intended. You actually made my point.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Forgetting the many things in their religious text that make it clear that women are not equal according to Islam, that isn't even relevant since that's not reality, and the way that Islam may have been twisted as it has intertwined with culture is what actually matters. If i gave the impression that I thought it was all about pure Islamicism, I didn't mean to.... not that it helps. Remember, I am strongly anti-organized religion. I could talk about how various branches of Christianity lead to this same problem, past and present.
BTW, your point about women praying separately (and it's often not just behind them btw. It's sometimes at the back of the room in a separate walled off room) from men because they don't want the men to think about fucking them while praying? That did not make the point I think you intended. You actually made my point.
I proved your point? Really? Interesting. Ok, congrats, you win. Send me your address so I can send you a cookie. B-)
Edit- it's never behind them, it's always separated.
For the record, I am not Islamophobic at all (and I don't think one could honestly reach that conclusion if they read everything I've said on the subject).
you are def outspokenly critical of many aspects of Islam...I try to keep my opinions on religion to myself, but I will say that I agree with some of your criticisms of islam in a broad sense, even if not the peripherals. Still, I find myself defending muslims all the time, which feels weird as an atheist-leaning agnostic...I pretty much never defend christianity or judaism or any other religion....But I defend islam because I think Islamophobia is right up there with apathy and ignorance as the reasons we allow our politicians and their puppet masters to wage wars. But I don't think you're islamophobic, and I'd hoped my 'at worst' was enough qualification.
You're right, I am very outspoken about certain aspects of Islam, which is largely driven by the position that Muslim women are in because of certain Islamic beliefs/practices. Of course, I'm also very outspoken about all other religions and/or cultural practices, especially if they impact equality for women or homosexuals or any other group. Theocracies also offend me, and unfortunately Islam dictates that government and religion go hand in hand. And i am also very critical of all fundamentalism and extremism... it just so happens that it's Islamic extremism is the kind that is most impacting the world right now and is most discussed here on these boards. For my opinions on the subject I am wholeheartedly unapologetic. However, I am actually generally in agreement with you and Byrnzie and fuck when it comes to ISIS and Gaza. Just because I speak out against those parts of Islam that I oppose it doesn't mean I am against Muslims any more than I am against Christians or Jews. I am universally against fundamentalism and religious extremism.
You mite be confusing "culture" with "religion". Please read this and tell me how women in "Islam" are supposed to be treated shitty.
No, I'm not confusing culture with religion. They are intertwined. Thank you, but I am already aware of the good things Islam says about women. That doesn't negate the things that are wrong.
I mean, great. Mother's are supposedly esteemed. I have read all the passages that people use to claim that Islam is not horrible for women. But I've also read all the passages that say the exact opposite. Just like other religious texts, the Koran is very contradictory. That doesn't help all the women who aren't allowed to work once they're married, are obligated to obey their husbands, the way sons are valued over daughters, the way they are all expected to marry and breed, the way they have to be segregated in mosques, aren't supposed to eat with men, have very defined roles in public license and private, the perverse focus on modesty for women... when you see any kind of protests or gatherings in the Islamic world there are almost no women anywhere at all - all men. Such things are not considered womanly concerns. And of course it gets worse, with the extremes of killing or maiming girl who try to go to school, are promised to men when they're children, can't show their faces in public, etc. Sharia law. Horrifying. Female genital mutilation. Fuck.
But yes, I've seen the attempts to make it seem like women are more equal than they really are. I see it as a smoke screen. This does not mean I think all Muslims treat women badly, nor am I saying that all Muslims support any kind of inequality between men as women. Certainly not. I have been in a relationship with a Muslim man myself and i loved him. Not once did he make me feel anything other than equal (although his parents did a poor job of hiding different feelings... they weren't so hot on the idea of their only son being with a non-Muslim white chick). I am talking in general terms.
This is pretty off topic though.... surely there is a separate thread about this specific subject?
It is off topic,
Yep, I personally think that someone (Pj Soul/badbrains) should Create (or find) another thread for the continuation of the topic, I'm sure it'll be good. I can't wait to read it.
I know I wouldn't move to a land that I felt it's policies are effecting my homeland ,,, but that's just me. Personally I think they immigrate to the west for a better life, to get away from all the violence, their bat shit crazy leaders, etc ... and not all the violence has the stamp of the west on it. Yet the terrorist and radicals insist on destroying the lives of the innocent westerners who have 0 influence into their countries policies. Personally I think the west should just get completely get out of the middle east and that includes giving any country in the middle east 1 $$$ of aid ... and guaranteed even if the west got completely out, we'd still be blamed for something and the violence would still exist.
You were fortunate enough to be born in the west. Congrats
I agree I was ... my forefathers who came to this country contributed immensely to this land, Life was not always easy in Canada. Many Canadian forefathers worked long hours providing for their family, many still work long hours in the diamond mines of the north or in the Alberta oil fields ... many leave their communities and travel thousand of kilometres for this type of work because their is very little work in their communities ... Newfoundlanders are great examples of people who travel great distances for a better life and thats within their own country.
So my question is with all the oil wealth in the middle east how come the middle hasn't been able to build thriving countries?
Really asking that question about oil with a straight face? I can't nor won't even answer that question for you. Do some research on the west and oil in the Mid East. It'll help you out for when you post about it.
Why ... our resources here in Canada has contributed to a better life for many ... I know many environmentalist don't like it ... but a great many Canadians have moved to Alberta and are working in the oil fields ... and the royalties that the governments get from oil contributes to social programs. Are you saying none of this exist in the middle eastern oil fields, the governments get no royalties, get none of the oil wealth ... or does the governments or princes or dictators or whatever ruler is in place and keeps all the monies for themselves and offers a pittance to the population? If this is the case, are you saying that western leaders are instructing middle eastern leaders to hoard the oil wealth for themselves? Screw the people ...
ok, on topic.... I meant to address this a while ago... I don't mean to sound patronizing, but you should check out Confessions of an Economic Hitman if you want to read a simple, short, book about the way our systems work. I've recommended it many times (lent it out a few times before it got double - lent and never saw it again)....It's beyond eye opening - we all know how corruption in capitalism works, but vaguely...that book spells it all out in plain english. To answer your question...basically, no....middle eastern leaders are not told to hoard oil wealth. But....a middle eastern leader who is 'for the people', will generally not be allowed to rule, period. So...shit floats. The most corrupt people end up in power, with our blessing. You acknowledge that we have no control over our own governments....so why put the onus on middle easterners to have control over theirs?....the next question would be - why would you assume that the 'leaders' of the worlds richest nations would stop at our borders when exerting their influence, esp considering globalization has grown exponentially over the past few decades? Western imperialist money influences virtually EVERY government the world over, and those that won't play are targeted for 'regime change'.
I'll check the book out ...
For the record I don't expect them to have any more control.
I just wish the west would not be involved in the middle east.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Forgetting the many things in their religious text that make it clear that women are not equal according to Islam, that isn't even relevant since that's not reality, and the way that Islam may have been twisted as it has intertwined with culture is what actually matters. If i gave the impression that I thought it was all about pure Islamicism, I didn't mean to.... not that it helps. Remember, I am strongly anti-organized religion. I could talk about how various branches of Christianity lead to this same problem, past and present.
BTW, your point about women praying separately (and it's often not just behind them btw. It's sometimes at the back of the room in a separate walled off room) from men because they don't want the men to think about fucking them while praying? That did not make the point I think you intended. You actually made my point.
I proved your point? Really? Interesting. Ok, congrats, you win. Send me your address so I can send you a cookie. B-)
Edit- it's never behind them, it's always separated.
I am not trying to win. I was just saying that the justification of praying separately from women is because the men will otherwise not be able to stop thinking about screwing the women says a lot about how women are viewed. And the prayer spaces for women are usually far inferior to the men's prayer spaces. They also have to enter through a separate entrance (usually the back entrance).
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Forgetting the many things in their religious text that make it clear that women are not equal according to Islam, that isn't even relevant since that's not reality, and the way that Islam may have been twisted as it has intertwined with culture is what actually matters. If i gave the impression that I thought it was all about pure Islamicism, I didn't mean to.... not that it helps. Remember, I am strongly anti-organized religion. I could talk about how various branches of Christianity lead to this same problem, past and present.
BTW, your point about women praying separately (and it's often not just behind them btw. It's sometimes at the back of the room in a separate walled off room) from men because they don't want the men to think about fucking them while praying? That did not make the point I think you intended. You actually made my point.
I proved your point? Really? Interesting. Ok, congrats, you win. Send me your address so I can send you a cookie. B-)
Edit- it's never behind them, it's always separated.
I am not trying to win. I was just saying that the justification of praying separately from women is because the men will otherwise not be able to stop thinking about screwing the women says a lot about how women are viewed. And the prayer spaces for women are usually far inferior to the men's prayer spaces. They also have to enter through a separate entrance (usually the back entrance).
To be fair, judaism also seperates women for the same reason. Although certain movement inside judaism (conservetive, reform...) have started to have joint prayers, the majority of jews around the world (that actually go pray) go to orthadox synogouges.
Still can't believe I met Mike Mccready at the Guggenheim and got a pic with him!!!!!
2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin
Forgetting the many things in their religious text that make it clear that women are not equal according to Islam, that isn't even relevant since that's not reality, and the way that Islam may have been twisted as it has intertwined with culture is what actually matters. If i gave the impression that I thought it was all about pure Islamicism, I didn't mean to.... not that it helps. Remember, I am strongly anti-organized religion. I could talk about how various branches of Christianity lead to this same problem, past and present.
BTW, your point about women praying separately (and it's often not just behind them btw. It's sometimes at the back of the room in a separate walled off room) from men because they don't want the men to think about fucking them while praying? That did not make the point I think you intended. You actually made my point.
I proved your point? Really? Interesting. Ok, congrats, you win. Send me your address so I can send you a cookie. B-)
Edit- it's never behind them, it's always separated.
I am not trying to win. I was just saying that the justification of praying separately from women is because the men will otherwise not be able to stop thinking about screwing the women says a lot about how women are viewed. And the prayer spaces for women are usually far inferior to the men's prayer spaces. They also have to enter through a separate entrance (usually the back entrance).
To be fair, judaism also seperates women for the same reason. Although certain movement inside judaism (conservetive, reform...) have started to have joint prayers, the majority of jews around the world (that actually go pray) go to orthadox synogouges.
Absolutely. As i said before, I do not restrict my opposition to just Islam with this topic. It's just that this thread is about IS, so that's the focus here. But Idris is right. Sorry for straying off topic (although not that far. ... a major concern of mind when it comes to IS is what them taking any power would mean for women there).
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Forgetting the many things in their religious text that make it clear that women are not equal according to Islam, that isn't even relevant since that's not reality, and the way that Islam may have been twisted as it has intertwined with culture is what actually matters. If i gave the impression that I thought it was all about pure Islamicism, I didn't mean to.... not that it helps. Remember, I am strongly anti-organized religion. I could talk about how various branches of Christianity lead to this same problem, past and present.
BTW, your point about women praying separately (and it's often not just behind them btw. It's sometimes at the back of the room in a separate walled off room) from men because they don't want the men to think about fucking them while praying? That did not make the point I think you intended. You actually made my point.
I proved your point? Really? Interesting. Ok, congrats, you win. Send me your address so I can send you a cookie. B-)
Edit- it's never behind them, it's always separated.
I am not trying to win. I was just saying that the justification of praying separately from women is because the men will otherwise not be able to stop thinking about screwing the women says a lot about how women are viewed. And the prayer spaces for women are usually far inferior to the men's prayer spaces. They also have to enter through a separate entrance (usually the back entrance).
Sorry idris, but I have to post one more response to pjsoul. I think this does a better job of explaining it then me:
Forgetting the many things in their religious text that make it clear that women are not equal according to Islam, that isn't even relevant since that's not reality, and the way that Islam may have been twisted as it has intertwined with culture is what actually matters. If i gave the impression that I thought it was all about pure Islamicism, I didn't mean to.... not that it helps. Remember, I am strongly anti-organized religion. I could talk about how various branches of Christianity lead to this same problem, past and present.
BTW, your point about women praying separately (and it's often not just behind them btw. It's sometimes at the back of the room in a separate walled off room) from men because they don't want the men to think about fucking them while praying? That did not make the point I think you intended. You actually made my point.
I proved your point? Really? Interesting. Ok, congrats, you win. Send me your address so I can send you a cookie. B-)
Edit- it's never behind them, it's always separated.
I am not trying to win. I was just saying that the justification of praying separately from women is because the men will otherwise not be able to stop thinking about screwing the women says a lot about how women are viewed. And the prayer spaces for women are usually far inferior to the men's prayer spaces. They also have to enter through a separate entrance (usually the back entrance).
Sorry idris, but I have to post one more response to pjsoul. I think this does a better job of explaining it then me:
The way I see it is, would you condemn all of America for the way that it suggested that women should support their men during wartime by working in textile factories? If you take almost ANY document and analyze it even one generation past its inception, you are almost certainly going to encounter ideas that are not timely, seen as antiquated, or irrelevant.
For example, there are theories that the original Kashruth (Kosher) laws were more to do with hygiene and safety in an era without refrigeration than animals that are "better" or "worse". Just as it is up to me to decide whether I follow those laws (here's a hint: I fucking love lobster as well as bacon cheeseburgers), it is up to the followers of Islam if they wish to accept or refute Islam's treatment of women. I don't choose to blame a document for its own antiquation, nor the religion that houses it. Plain and simple, it is a choice of followers of Islam to make whether they choose to embrace modern values and notions of equality.
Perhaps people here with more experience in Islamic nations than myself would be able to answer this, but if a woman refutes some or all Islamic laws and wishes not to participate within them, is she entitled to? I think that's a more important discussion if discussing women's rights in Islam: as a Jew, while socially one would inevitably criticized for "leaving the faith", he or she would still be within his or her rights. I believe these rights should be extended to each and every religion. Once that is applied across every religion (i.e. introducing an 'out-out' clause), religion becomes a personal choice - the way it ought to be - not out of obligation, but out of belief.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Forgetting the many things in their religious text that make it clear that women are not equal according to Islam, that isn't even relevant since that's not reality, and the way that Islam may have been twisted as it has intertwined with culture is what actually matters. If i gave the impression that I thought it was all about pure Islamicism, I didn't mean to.... not that it helps. Remember, I am strongly anti-organized religion. I could talk about how various branches of Christianity lead to this same problem, past and present.
BTW, your point about women praying separately (and it's often not just behind them btw. It's sometimes at the back of the room in a separate walled off room) from men because they don't want the men to think about fucking them while praying? That did not make the point I think you intended. You actually made my point.
I proved your point? Really? Interesting. Ok, congrats, you win. Send me your address so I can send you a cookie. B-)
Edit- it's never behind them, it's always separated.
I am not trying to win. I was just saying that the justification of praying separately from women is because the men will otherwise not be able to stop thinking about screwing the women says a lot about how women are viewed. And the prayer spaces for women are usually far inferior to the men's prayer spaces. They also have to enter through a separate entrance (usually the back entrance).
Sorry idris, but I have to post one more response to pjsoul. I think this does a better job of explaining it then me:
The articles u posted say that barriers are NOT required in Islam between men and women during prayer. The 2nd article pretty much proved it's a culture thing with the barriers. And now I'm bored with this subject. Pjsoul, your mind is made up. Although I feel that there's more to your feelings about Islam then you're telling. Like something you hold personal against Islam. Just seems to me that you have something personal against Islam. And you have every right to. I'm just telling u my feelings I've been getting from your posts. Good luck to you.
There seem to be more posts concerned about condemning Pandora rather than being concerned about getting the evil back in the 'effing box on this thread. Why defend the evil and condmn Pandora?
PJSoul's posts in the religious threads will help put context to her distaste for "Islamic culture". It is about people following disgusting old texts that seek to control peoples thoughts and behavior. It is clear from reading the texts that the Abrahamic religions seek to subjugate women and it's no big surprise that modern empowered women rankle at this. I would love to see a thread where we discuss this systematic mistreatment of women by the major religions...I have some experience directly with this, but as stated, this isn't the place for it.
Forgetting the many things in their religious text that make it clear that women are not equal according to Islam, that isn't even relevant since that's not reality, and the way that Islam may have been twisted as it has intertwined with culture is what actually matters. If i gave the impression that I thought it was all about pure Islamicism, I didn't mean to.... not that it helps. Remember, I am strongly anti-organized religion. I could talk about how various branches of Christianity lead to this same problem, past and present.
BTW, your point about women praying separately (and it's often not just behind them btw. It's sometimes at the back of the room in a separate walled off room) from men because they don't want the men to think about fucking them while praying? That did not make the point I think you intended. You actually made my point.
I proved your point? Really? Interesting. Ok, congrats, you win. Send me your address so I can send you a cookie. B-)
Edit- it's never behind them, it's always separated.
I am not trying to win. I was just saying that the justification of praying separately from women is because the men will otherwise not be able to stop thinking about screwing the women says a lot about how women are viewed. And the prayer spaces for women are usually far inferior to the men's prayer spaces. They also have to enter through a separate entrance (usually the back entrance).
Sorry idris, but I have to post one more response to pjsoul. I think this does a better job of explaining it then me:
The articles u posted say that barriers are NOT required in Islam between men and women during prayer. The 2nd article pretty much proved it's a culture thing with the barriers. And now I'm bored with this subject. Pjsoul, your mind is made up. Although I feel that there's more to your feelings about Islam then you're telling. Like something you hold personal against Islam. Just seems to me that you have something personal against Islam. And you have every right to. I'm just telling u my feelings I've been getting from your posts. Good luck to you.
To be fair, and correct me if I'm wrong PJ Soul, but if you go check out a few of the religion threads you will see that PJ Soul holds all religions in this regard. I don't feel like Islam gets any special condemnation. Islam just seems to be the focus in this discussion.
Forgetting the many things in their religious text that make it clear that women are not equal according to Islam, that isn't even relevant since that's not reality, and the way that Islam may have been twisted as it has intertwined with culture is what actually matters. If i gave the impression that I thought it was all about pure Islamicism, I didn't mean to.... not that it helps. Remember, I am strongly anti-organized religion. I could talk about how various branches of Christianity lead to this same problem, past and present.
BTW, your point about women praying separately (and it's often not just behind them btw. It's sometimes at the back of the room in a separate walled off room) from men because they don't want the men to think about fucking them while praying? That did not make the point I think you intended. You actually made my point.
I proved your point? Really? Interesting. Ok, congrats, you win. Send me your address so I can send you a cookie. B-)
Edit- it's never behind them, it's always separated.
I am not trying to win. I was just saying that the justification of praying separately from women is because the men will otherwise not be able to stop thinking about screwing the women says a lot about how women are viewed. And the prayer spaces for women are usually far inferior to the men's prayer spaces. They also have to enter through a separate entrance (usually the back entrance).
Sorry idris, but I have to post one more response to pjsoul. I think this does a better job of explaining it then me:
The articles u posted say that barriers are NOT required in Islam between men and women during prayer. The 2nd article pretty much proved it's a culture thing with the barriers. And now I'm bored with this subject. Pjsoul, your mind is made up. Although I feel that there's more to your feelings about Islam then you're telling. Like something you hold personal against Islam. Just seems to me that you have something personal against Islam. And you have every right to. I'm just telling u my feelings I've been getting from your posts. Good luck to you.
To be fair, and correct me if I'm wrong PJ Soul, but if you go check out a few of the religion threads you will see that PJ Soul holds all religions in this regard. I don't feel like Islam gets any special condemnation. Islam just seems to be the focus in this discussion.
Fair enough. I'll honestly say I haven't read them. But if so, I stand corrected.
I don't know. How many Americans think Hussein was responsible for 9/11? I wouodn't have thought it was vry many. Just a small number ifnreally stupid people. What does that have to do with anything?
It has to do with the fact that what many people think, especially in the U.S, doesn't always have any relation to reality.
I was under the impression that only factual based statements with links to back them up were allowed here.
What you wrote sounds more like an opinion than actual fact.
I don't know. How many Americans think Hussein was responsible for 9/11? I wouodn't have thought it was vry many. Just a small number ifnreally stupid people. What does that have to do with anything?
It has to do with the fact that what many people think, especially in the U.S, doesn't always have any relation to reality.
I was under the impression that only factual based statements with links to back them up were allowed here.
What you wrote sounds more like an opinion than actual fact.
I don't know. How many Americans think Hussein was responsible for 9/11? I wouodn't have thought it was vry many. Just a small number ifnreally stupid people. What does that have to do with anything?
It has to do with the fact that what many people think, especially in the U.S, doesn't always have any relation to reality.
I was under the impression that only factual based statements with links to back them up were allowed here.
What you wrote sounds more like an opinion than actual fact.
Polls from over ten years ago taken from 1,000 out of over 300,000,000 now constitute fact? Shiver me timbers.
To be fair, I just googled it to and there's NOTHING current I could find for a poll. Unless you got another search engine I could use. Nothing after 2007. Which is weird to say the least.
I don't know. How many Americans think Hussein was responsible for 9/11? I wouodn't have thought it was vry many. Just a small number ifnreally stupid people. What does that have to do with anything?
It has to do with the fact that what many people think, especially in the U.S, doesn't always have any relation to reality.
I was under the impression that only factual based statements with links to back them up were allowed here.
What you wrote sounds more like an opinion than actual fact.
It's a shame he gave up his Occupy Rap career and drug dealing to go and cut off people's heads in respect to The Spaghetti Monster (allegedly)
If this is actually the guy... I hope he's squirming right now. He was really tough with that mask on spouting his goofy gibberish, but with the understanding that he's exposed and people know him for being a scumbag... I hope he's reflecting on his follies and having some regrets while worrying for his future.
And... I await the moment when someone pursuing justice on the front line grabs him by the neck and feeds him a few straight rights to simmer him down a little bit as he resists by flailing away and crying for help.
But don't worry... we'll patch him up really good and give him a really comfy cell with some hot chocolate and cable television so he can feel better. We might even give him a nurse to rub his shoulders too.
I don't know. How many Americans think Hussein was responsible for 9/11? I wouodn't have thought it was vry many. Just a small number ifnreally stupid people. What does that have to do with anything?
It has to do with the fact that what many people think, especially in the U.S, doesn't always have any relation to reality.
I was under the impression that only factual based statements with links to back them up were allowed here.
What you wrote sounds more like an opinion than actual fact.
Polls from over ten years ago taken from 1,000 out of over 300,000,000 now constitute fact? Shiver me timbers.
To be fair, I just googled it to and there's NOTHING current I could find for a poll. Unless you got another search engine I could use. Nothing after 2007. Which is weird to say the least.
Definitely weird, badbrains. I'd say it's worth picking another argument if we can't find current and relevant polls on a topic like current conceptions. I would venture a guess that there are plenty of other examples of widespread Western delusions or misconceptions.
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EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I don't know. How many Americans think Hussein was responsible for 9/11? I wouodn't have thought it was vry many. Just a small number ifnreally stupid people. What does that have to do with anything?
It has to do with the fact that what many people think, especially in the U.S, doesn't always have any relation to reality.
I was under the impression that only factual based statements with links to back them up were allowed here.
What you wrote sounds more like an opinion than actual fact.
Polls from over ten years ago taken from 1,000 out of over 300,000,000 now constitute fact? Shiver me timbers.
To be fair, I just googled it to and there's NOTHING current I could find for a poll. Unless you got another search engine I could use. Nothing after 2007. Which is weird to say the least.
Is it though? Saddam has been gone for years. I doubt anyone is polling on that question anymore.
It's a shame he gave up his Occupy Rap career and drug dealing to go and cut off people's heads in respect to The Spaghetti Monster (allegedly)
If this is actually the guy... I hope he's squirming right now. He was really tough with that mask on spouting his goofy gibberish, but with the understanding that he's exposed and people know him for being a scumbag... I hope he's reflecting on his follies and having some regrets while worrying for his future.
And... I await the moment when someone pursuing justice on the front line grabs him by the neck and feeds him a few straight rights to simmer him down a little bit as he resists by flailing away and crying for help.
But don't worry... we'll patch him up really good and give him a really comfy cell with some hot chocolate and cable television so he can feel better. We might even give him a nurse to rub his shoulders too.
Dude....sometimes I just.... I have no problem with an opinion of support for the death penalty (tho I disagree with it), and harsher treatment of criminals....but the way you present your thoughts on it at times..... Do you really fantasize about avenging people you've never met? Doesn't seem healthy.
I saw some pretty good questions asked of this video last night... I haven't seen it (not sure I would want to), so relaying these questions assumes the person asking them isn't making shit up.
This video was not consistent with other extremist execution videos: Only one person on camera (there are usually many, in a show of force)....no religious speeches or allahu akbar chants... The video didn't show the actual beheading, but did show six cutting motions across his neck...Foley didn't struggle or react at all to the cutting, and there was no blood until the film jumps to a still shot of his head lying on his body. How was Foley so calm, if he knew what was happening? If he didn't, wouldn't he have at least struggled when being cut? If the intent was to intimidate or horrify the west....why make the video and release it without showing the actual beheading? Most of these psychos (including those who filmed Saddam's execution), don't edit out the graphic parts. Maybe there are easily explained answers to al of those questions...hardly smoking gun stuff....but it's interesting that the UK govt has issued a statement that simply viewing the video may be considered terrorism under anti-terror legislation....kinda makes it difficult to judge for yourself.
I know I wouldn't move to a land that I felt it's policies are effecting my homeland ,,, but that's just me. Personally I think they immigrate to the west for a better life, to get away from all the violence, their bat shit crazy leaders, etc ... and not all the violence has the stamp of the west on it. Yet the terrorist and radicals insist on destroying the lives of the innocent westerners who have 0 influence into their countries policies. Personally I think the west should just get completely get out of the middle east and that includes giving any country in the middle east 1 $$$ of aid ... and guaranteed even if the west got completely out, we'd still be blamed for something and the violence would still exist.
You were fortunate enough to be born in the west. Congrats
I agree I was ... my forefathers who came to this country contributed immensely to this land, Life was not always easy in Canada. Many Canadian forefathers worked long hours providing for their family, many still work long hours in the diamond mines of the north or in the Alberta oil fields ... many leave their communities and travel thousand of kilometres for this type of work because their is very little work in their communities ... Newfoundlanders are great examples of people who travel great distances for a better life and thats within their own country.
So my question is with all the oil wealth in the middle east how come the middle hasn't been able to build thriving countries?
Really asking that question about oil with a straight face? I can't nor won't even answer that question for you. Do some research on the west and oil in the Mid East. It'll help you out for when you post about it.
Why ... our resources here in Canada has contributed to a better life for many ... I know many environmentalist don't like it ... but a great many Canadians have moved to Alberta and are working in the oil fields ... and the royalties that the governments get from oil contributes to social programs. Are you saying none of this exist in the middle eastern oil fields, the governments get no royalties, get none of the oil wealth ... or does the governments or princes or dictators or whatever ruler is in place and keeps all the monies for themselves and offers a pittance to the population? If this is the case, are you saying that western leaders are instructing middle eastern leaders to hoard the oil wealth for themselves? Screw the people ...
ok, on topic.... I meant to address this a while ago... I don't mean to sound patronizing, but you should check out Confessions of an Economic Hitman if you want to read a simple, short, book about the way our systems work. I've recommended it many times (lent it out a few times before it got double - lent and never saw it again)....It's beyond eye opening - we all know how corruption in capitalism works, but vaguely...that book spells it all out in plain english. To answer your question...basically, no....middle eastern leaders are not told to hoard oil wealth. But....a middle eastern leader who is 'for the people', will generally not be allowed to rule, period. So...shit floats. The most corrupt people end up in power, with our blessing. You acknowledge that we have no control over our own governments....so why put the onus on middle easterners to have control over theirs?....the next question would be - why would you assume that the 'leaders' of the worlds richest nations would stop at our borders when exerting their influence, esp considering globalization has grown exponentially over the past few decades? Western imperialist money influences virtually EVERY government the world over, and those that won't play are targeted for 'regime change'.
I'll check the book out ...
For the record I don't expect them to have any more control.
I just wish the west would not be involved in the middle east.
I don't think we'll ever not be involved in the middle east. But being a fair trade partner would probably solve a HUGE number of issues over there. Let me know if you do check out the book I've had nothing but positive reactions from those I know who have read it.
Comments
BTW, your point about women praying separately (and it's often not just behind them btw. It's sometimes at the back of the room in a separate walled off room) from men because they don't want the men to think about fucking them while praying? That did not make the point I think you intended. You actually made my point.
Edit- it's never behind them, it's always separated.
Yep, I personally think that someone (Pj Soul/badbrains) should Create (or find) another thread for the continuation of the topic, I'm sure it'll be good. I can't wait to read it.
I'll check the book out ...
For the record I don't expect them to have any more control.
I just wish the west would not be involved in the middle east.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin
But Idris is right. Sorry for straying off topic (although not that far. ... a major concern of mind when it comes to IS is what them taking any power would mean for women there).
http://m.thenational.ae/arts-culture/ask-ali-why-mosques-have-separate-areas-for-women
Here are a couple more articles on the subject.
http://www.newvision.co.ug/news/642087-why-muslim-women-and-men-sit-separately-in-mosques.html
http://womensenews.org/story/religion/140402/mosques-relegate-womens-prayers-the-basement#.U_wnd45lBdY
For example, there are theories that the original Kashruth (Kosher) laws were more to do with hygiene and safety in an era without refrigeration than animals that are "better" or "worse". Just as it is up to me to decide whether I follow those laws (here's a hint: I fucking love lobster as well as bacon cheeseburgers), it is up to the followers of Islam if they wish to accept or refute Islam's treatment of women. I don't choose to blame a document for its own antiquation, nor the religion that houses it. Plain and simple, it is a choice of followers of Islam to make whether they choose to embrace modern values and notions of equality.
Perhaps people here with more experience in Islamic nations than myself would be able to answer this, but if a woman refutes some or all Islamic laws and wishes not to participate within them, is she entitled to? I think that's a more important discussion if discussing women's rights in Islam: as a Jew, while socially one would inevitably criticized for "leaving the faith", he or she would still be within his or her rights. I believe these rights should be extended to each and every religion. Once that is applied across every religion (i.e. introducing an 'out-out' clause), religion becomes a personal choice - the way it ought to be - not out of obligation, but out of belief.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
It is about people following disgusting old texts that seek to control peoples thoughts and behavior. It is clear from reading the texts that the Abrahamic religions seek to subjugate women and it's no big surprise that modern empowered women rankle at this. I would love to see a thread where we discuss this systematic mistreatment of women by the major religions...I have some experience directly with this, but as stated, this isn't the place for it.
Happy now?
businessinsider.com/rapper-linked-to-james-foley-killing-made-anonymous-anthem-2014-8
It's a shame he gave up his Occupy Rap career and drug dealing to go and cut off people's heads in respect to The Spaghetti Monster (allegedly)
And I take it that you don't know how polls work? That number is pretty standard.
And... I await the moment when someone pursuing justice on the front line grabs him by the neck and feeds him a few straight rights to simmer him down a little bit as he resists by flailing away and crying for help.
But don't worry... we'll patch him up really good and give him a really comfy cell with some hot chocolate and cable television so he can feel better. We might even give him a nurse to rub his shoulders too.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/25/world/meast/james-foley-killer-five-clues/index.html?c=&page=3
I have no problem with an opinion of support for the death penalty (tho I disagree with it), and harsher treatment of criminals....but the way you present your thoughts on it at times.....
Do you really fantasize about avenging people you've never met? Doesn't seem healthy.
I saw some pretty good questions asked of this video last night...
I haven't seen it (not sure I would want to), so relaying these questions assumes the person asking them isn't making shit up.
This video was not consistent with other extremist execution videos: Only one person on camera (there are usually many, in a show of force)....no religious speeches or allahu akbar chants...
The video didn't show the actual beheading, but did show six cutting motions across his neck...Foley didn't struggle or react at all to the cutting, and there was no blood until the film jumps to a still shot of his head lying on his body. How was Foley so calm, if he knew what was happening? If he didn't, wouldn't he have at least struggled when being cut? If the intent was to intimidate or horrify the west....why make the video and release it without showing the actual beheading? Most of these psychos (including those who filmed Saddam's execution), don't edit out the graphic parts.
Maybe there are easily explained answers to al of those questions...hardly smoking gun stuff....but it's interesting that the UK govt has issued a statement that simply viewing the video may be considered terrorism under anti-terror legislation....kinda makes it difficult to judge for yourself.
Let me know if you do check out the book