Beheaded by ISIS

Drowned Out

I will say something about the cartels...it is without doubt a fair analogy to the system of oppression used in the Middle East, minus the border crossing stuff. Even if they were ideologues, they would have no hope of overrunning the US...that's just silly. Esp when considering, like with so many other criminal and terror groups - the US already own them! Yes, terrorists could kill your economy, and drug cartels could do that too...so could your own bankers, corps, and politicians. They ARE doing that.

The US got more involved in the Mexican drug war by way of a $10b (think I have the numbers right) loan to fight it. That money was used by the Mexican government to favour one cartel over the other....as if the US wouldn't have green lighted this approach to use of their funding...and if you know anything about American drug policy - these moves were made to control the drug trade, not stop it....these policies resulted in tens of thousands of deaths - most of them innocent, desperate migrants forced to work or hired by the cartels. (Again, working off the top of my head here)...the whole thing started over changes in cocaine shipping routes from Columbia - the bulk of their coke never came thru Mexico until US funding and policy changes in Columbia made it happen. Those migrant workers? Mostly people who lost their jobs when nafta came into effect. I posted some lengthy articles about all of this in a thread about it when the violence was peaking, do a search if interested.

The US is the worlds biggest drug consumer (and everything else consumer), and the worlds biggest drug war enforcer. So don't try to give me some sob story about everyone being against you and how you always feel like people are blaming you for everything - that Mexico was always a shit hole or whatever. Again - it was policy funded and backed by the US that exacerbated existing problems to benefit their interests only, fuck the locals. You want to bleat on about the good you do, and your responsibility as sole super power and biggest consumer block - then own the bad with the good. Stop trying to absolve your accountability by saying everyone else is as bad, and it's always been that way. It's a straw man, and we don't know how any other system would have unfolded thru history. So don't assume things couldn't be better, even if you do see the US as only 'imperfect'.

bootlegger10 said:

Idris said:

bootlegger10 said:

Idris said:

I think I've entered the twilight zone...someone please hand me a cup of fluoridated water, I need to lower my IQ to follow whats happening right now.

You act like the USA is the reason for all of the wars and conflicts in the world., like the Middle East would be this peaceful utopia if the USA or the West never got involved. There was war and barbarism long before the USA and will be long after.

And I've drunk a shitload of tang tonight.

Sorry, but you have not read my posts properly and/or taken enough time to understand them.

I've never said that the mid east would be some Utopia without US hegemony.

It will have problems, but it will be their problems. They dont need our influence.

I've never said that the U.S is responsible for all the wars and conflicts in the world.

Now, If I have said something that is incorrect, then simply prove it, and I'll correct myself, I care about facts.

Sober up from the (orange?) tang, then come back and speak to me.

Does the US get involved in Middle East conflicts? Yep. Unfortunately, a lot of times in the Middle East there aren't a lot of good guys to support.

Hypothetical:
Look at Syria. The US can't side with Assad, so they would most likely support the rebels. Say the US sends arms to the rebels to topple Assad. The rebels are victorious. Next thing you know the rebels become worse than Assad. Now, is this the US's fault, or is it the fact that the US is forced to choose between the lesser of two evils at the moment?

So, you might say the US is at fault for the rebels gaining power, when in fact the original regime was evil too. So you are a damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator. Sure, he kept the factions in line, but he was nonetheless brutal and evil. The US created a mess in Iraq, but if we want to say everything was just fine before the US got there and villify the US for creating ISIS when it would have formed regardless in some other form is ridiculous.

The world will get cleaned up when it doesn't rely on the US to police it. For now, no one can police ISIS except the US, so we must act.

The world relies on the US to police it? Hahaha....that's funny shit. Everyone knows capitalists see conflict as opportunity, and whichever side is willing to sell the most of their country gets that support. You see these people being promoted on tv and it is always framed as victims asking for the US to bring their benevolent intervention...

Your hypothetical doesn't elaborate on the 'damned if we don't' at all....it just says we can't support Assad. No one asked you to support Assad, so that isn't 'damned if you don't'.....if You can't even see that flaw in your thinking, and you are so black and white as to say something as polarizing as that phrase, then there isn't much more to talk about. Obviously not being involved at all ( the real 'don't') isn't an option. Not because of responsibility and the heart strings your tv pulled, but because the US must maintain hegemony and the role you cherish as world police.

hedonist

brianlux said:

mickeyrat said:

badbrains said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

There have been an awful lot of beheadings and mutilations in Mexico the past decade.

Are people similarly outraged over these given the motivation is ultimately currency versus religious differences? Is one beheading more justified than another?

Fucken GREAT question Thirty!

No no no. Where else we gonna get our drugs from?

The Tang factories, of course! :-D

I've been following this thread over its course...and I apologize if inappropriate but I just love this.

Now back to our regularly-scheduled programming.

bootlegger10

brianlux said:

mickeyrat said:

badbrains said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

There have been an awful lot of beheadings and mutilations in Mexico the past decade.

Are people similarly outraged over these given the motivation is ultimately currency versus religious differences? Is one beheading more justified than another?

Fucken GREAT question Thirty!

No no no. Where else we gonna get our drugs from?

The Tang factories, of course! :-D

)

Tang is a helluva drug.

badbrains

bootlegger10 said:

brianlux said:

mickeyrat said:

badbrains said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

There have been an awful lot of beheadings and mutilations in Mexico the past decade.

Are people similarly outraged over these given the motivation is ultimately currency versus religious differences? Is one beheading more justified than another?

Fucken GREAT question Thirty!

No no no. Where else we gonna get our drugs from?

The Tang factories, of course! :-D

)

Tang is a helluva drug.

Anyone try the Valencia orange drink at Starbucks? I'm addicted to it. But I've been told it's a glorified tang drink. And u know what, it really is, but I fucken love it.

bootlegger10

badbrains said:

bootlegger10 said:

brianlux said:

mickeyrat said:

badbrains said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

There have been an awful lot of beheadings and mutilations in Mexico the past decade.

Are people similarly outraged over these given the motivation is ultimately currency versus religious differences? Is one beheading more justified than another?

Fucken GREAT question Thirty!

No no no. Where else we gonna get our drugs from?

The Tang factories, of course! :-D

)

Tang is a helluva drug.

Anyone try the Valencia orange drink at Starbucks? I'm addicted to it. But I've been told it's a glorified tang drink. And u know what, it really is, but I fucken love it.

You are into some hard shit man.

badbrains

bootlegger10 said:

badbrains said:

bootlegger10 said:

brianlux said:

mickeyrat said:

badbrains said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

There have been an awful lot of beheadings and mutilations in Mexico the past decade.

Are people similarly outraged over these given the motivation is ultimately currency versus religious differences? Is one beheading more justified than another?

Fucken GREAT question Thirty!

No no no. Where else we gonna get our drugs from?

The Tang factories, of course! :-D

)

Tang is a helluva drug.

Anyone try the Valencia orange drink at Starbucks? I'm addicted to it. But I've been told it's a glorified tang drink. And u know what, it really is, but I fucken love it.

You are into some hard shit man.

If you really only knew..... B-)

benjs

badbrains said:

mickeyrat said:

badbrains said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

There have been an awful lot of beheadings and mutilations in Mexico the past decade.

Are people similarly outraged over these given the motivation is ultimately currency versus religious differences? Is one beheading more justified than another?

Fucken GREAT question Thirty!

No no no. Where else we gonna get our drugs from?

Another great question Mickey!

badbrains, my friend, we may just be known for our weed up here, but you're always welcome here in Canada for oodles of drugs.

Annafalk

I would like to see other countries step in against these monsters, the US can't do everything. The way these fuckers are behaving, murdering and torturing innocents, kidnapping children it must be stopped. Innocent civilians should get protection wherever in the world things like this is happening. I have no good answer how but other countries should work together.

Byrnzie

Annafalk said:

I would like to see other countries step in against these monsters, the US can't do everything. The way these fuckers are behaving, murdering and torturing innocents, it must stop. Innocent civilians should get protection wherever in the world things like this is happening.

Sure, everyone but the Palestinians.

Annafalk

Byrnzie said:

Annafalk said:

I would like to see other countries step in against these monsters, the US can't do everything. The way these fuckers are behaving, murdering and torturing innocents, it must stop. Innocent civilians should get protection wherever in the world things like this is happening.

Sure, everyone but the Palestinians.

The innocent civilian palestines should also be protected, this world is so messed up.

JC29856

What's more salvage the Foley beheading or this account....too bad they didn't video it

In his book, Black Hearts: One Platoon’s Descent into Madness in Iraq’s Triangle of Death, Jim Frederick describes the 2006 extrajudicial execution of an Iraqi family of four—a father, mother and two daughters. According to Army Specialist Paul Cortez, his unit was on patrol south of Baghdad when Army Specialist James Barker suggested that they find an Iraqi woman to rape. “We’ve all killed Hadjis, but I’ve been here twice and I still never fucked one of these bitches,” Barker stated.
Having chosen their target, the soldiers entered the house and locked three members of the Janabis family in the bedroom with Private First Class Steven Green standing guard over them. Meanwhile, Cortez took the 14-year-old daughter Abeer into the living room and began raping her. According to Frederick’s account:
In the bedroom, Green was losing control of his prisoners. The woman made a run for the door. Green shot her once in the back and she fell to the floor. The man became unhinged. Green turned his own AK on him and pulled the trigger. It jammed. Panicking, as the man advanced on him, Green switched to his shotgun. The first shot blasted the top of the man’s head off. Then Green turned to the little girl, who was running for a corner. This time the AK worked. He raised the rifle and shot Hadeel in the back of the head. She fell to the ground. …
As Green was executing the family, Cortez finished raping Abeer and switched positions with Barker. Green came out of the bedroom and announced to Barker and Cortez, “They’re all dead. I killed them all.” Cortez held Abeer down and Green raped her. Then Cortez pushed a pillow over her face, still pinning her arms with his knees. Green grabbed the AK, pointed the gun at the pillow, and fired one shot, killing Abeer.

badbrains

JC29856 said:

What's more salvage the Foley beheading or this account....too bad they didn't video it

In his book, Black Hearts: One Platoon’s Descent into Madness in Iraq’s Triangle of Death, Jim Frederick describes the 2006 extrajudicial execution of an Iraqi family of four—a father, mother and two daughters. According to Army Specialist Paul Cortez, his unit was on patrol south of Baghdad when Army Specialist James Barker suggested that they find an Iraqi woman to rape. “We’ve all killed Hadjis, but I’ve been here twice and I still never fucked one of these bitches,” Barker stated.
Having chosen their target, the soldiers entered the house and locked three members of the Janabis family in the bedroom with Private First Class Steven Green standing guard over them. Meanwhile, Cortez took the 14-year-old daughter Abeer into the living room and began raping her. According to Frederick’s account:
In the bedroom, Green was losing control of his prisoners. The woman made a run for the door. Green shot her once in the back and she fell to the floor. The man became unhinged. Green turned his own AK on him and pulled the trigger. It jammed. Panicking, as the man advanced on him, Green switched to his shotgun. The first shot blasted the top of the man’s head off. Then Green turned to the little girl, who was running for a corner. This time the AK worked. He raised the rifle and shot Hadeel in the back of the head. She fell to the ground. …
As Green was executing the family, Cortez finished raping Abeer and switched positions with Barker. Green came out of the bedroom and announced to Barker and Cortez, “They’re all dead. I killed them all.” Cortez held Abeer down and Green raped her. Then Cortez pushed a pillow over her face, still pinning her arms with his knees. Green grabbed the AK, pointed the gun at the pillow, and fired one shot, killing Abeer.

I remember when this happened. I remember the rage I felt. This was such a vicious attack and what happened to that family is disturbing. The part of the story that's missing is the part he tried to burn the bodies. These American soldiers are NO BETTER then IS. And thank god one of the soldiers actually had somewhat of a soul because he actually told a priest I believe and that's what made the story come out. I wonder whatever happened to Green. Such a sad story.

JC29856

After the rape the lower part of Abeer’s body, from her stomach down to her feet, was set on fire. The fire eventually spread to the rest of the room and the smoke alerted neighbors, who were among the first to discover the scene. One recalled "The poor girl, she was so beautiful. She lay there, one leg was stretched and the other bent and her dress was lifted up to her neck."[8] They ran to tell Abu Firas Janabi, Abeer’s uncle, that the farmhouse was on fire and that dead bodies could be seen inside the burning building. Janabi and his wife rushed to the farmhouse and doused some of the flames to get inside. Upon witnessing the scene inside, Janabi went to a checkpoint guarded by Iraqi soldiers to report the crime.

JC29856

Green and the other soldiers who participated in the incident told the Iraqi Army soldiers who arrived on scene immediately after the incident that it had been perpetrated by Sunni insurgents. These Iraqi soldiers conveyed this information to Abeer's uncle, who viewed the bodies. This lie prevented the event from being recognized as a crime or widely reported amidst the widespread violence occurring in Iraq at that time.

On June 16, a checkpoint manned by soldiers in the perpetrators' unit was attacked and overrun. Specialist David Babineau was killed and Pfcs Thomas Lowell Tucker and Kristian Menchaca were captured, tortured, and killed. When Yribe heard this, he told Pfc Justin Watt that Green was a murderer.

JC29856

Gang raped shot in head and burned

badbrains

JC29856 said:

Gang raped shot in head and burned

Wow,'so young and innocent. I hope her soul is visiting Green EVERY NITE he's rotting in that so called military prison. How this happened is beyond me.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Death penalty

JC29856

What's more salvage more barbaric the Foley beheading or the above?

JimmyV

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Death penalty

One more reason why I am in favor of it.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

JC29856 said:

What's more salvage more barbaric the Foley beheading or the above?

I cant think of anything worse than the rape and murder of a child.

I'm not absolving the ISIS mutants for their lunacy, but Foley took his chances. The girl and the family had no chance. My blood boiled reading that story.

So, if you are trying to draw a parallel to westerners (Americans) pointing their fingers at ISIS and shaking their heads... they'd do well to look in the mirror before doing so. You have successfully spoke to the hypocrisy of the west and our failures to recognize our own evil deeds.

It still doesn't mean though, that we should not be disgusted with ISIS behaviour- it's sheer madness and resembles something out of an apocalyptic horror movie.