The United-States of America remains the largest exporter of conventional weapons in the world, according to the latest study by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI). The U.S account for 30% of global arms sales, or about $7 billion per year, for the period 2005-2009, SIPRI statement says. From 2005 to 2009, the U.S. sold one-third of its arm exports to South Korea (15%), Israel (13%) and the United Arab Emirates (11%).
For those that invest here,what says you about any holdings directly or indirectly(Mutual Fund) invested in corps that feed the beast?If your stats/chart project Byrnzie then this area is an investor heaven.In an other side of the coin kinda way
As a rule I don't usually post in these threads because I learned long ago that there is no point, but The stuff I have read here compels me to comment.
Let me start off by saying that I am appalled by the deaths of any civilians during a military conflict (women, children, men, elderly... does not matter to me). Furthermore I am in favor of ending this conflict as soon as possible. Now to my point: I find it ridiculous how easily the anti Israel faction here jumps on any piece of unproven rumors attacking Israel dressed up as legitimate news while simultaneously state that anything that Israel says is lies and propaganda. Around 99% of the "groundbreaking journalistic scoops" here could easily be fabricated by any 10 year old with access to a computer. I am not saying it is all lies, but how about you wait for some hard proof before believing everything you read on the internet (Not even going to go in to the fact that one of the articles posted in this thread was from 10 years ago...). After all, it has been proven time and again that many of the pictures coming out of Gaza during this conflict have been fictitious (i.e. pics actually taken from the syrian conflict which is much more of a genocide than anything going on in Gaza, yet is mostly ignored). Again, not saying that everything that Israel puts out there is 100% true. Now as far as the general atmosphere in this thread, I am Israeli (if you have not figured it out yet). I am actually one of the additional 16,000 reserve soldiers being called up (I need to report in on Monday morning). The things I see posted here (not just in this thread) disgust me. Forget about the blatant nonsense written by some members here over and over concerning the intentions of Hamas trying to depict them as some noble peaceful group, what truly bothers me is the hate. For a group of people concerned about putting a stop to military conflict, many of you are filled with hate. The only way to truly stop the violence is through dialogue and not to always look for someone to blame. Both sides share the blame for this conflict and all others before it. To place the blame on only one side is not going to make anything better.
Now I would like to specifically address Byrzine: You are without a doubt one of the most hate filled people I have ever had the displeasure of being in contact with. Each time I read one of your disgusting lies I cringe. To say (on the first page of this thread) that Hamas does not target civilians boils my blood. What exactly do you think that thousands of rockets being fired from Gaza are doing? I have seen you in recent days say that the antisemitism surging in Europe is understandable and even within reason (on the "imagine that, I am still anti war" thread). I have seen you say that the Hamas rockets are nothing more than fireworks. Last time I checked, fireworks do not send millions of civilians to bomb shelters, destroy homes, injure and kill. I am not really interested in having a debate with you because you will probably just throw links to articles you found online to make your point in hopes that I will get lost. I speak from experience as someone who actually lives here. I would gladly discuss the situation with any one else here who wants to. Shoot me a PM, I have no intention of becoming a public target for the usual crowd of hate mongers that lurk these threads.
Still can't believe I met Mike Mccready at the Guggenheim and got a pic with him!!!!!
2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin
One more quick thing. The only thing posted in this entire thread that actually helped make sense of things is what Dimitris posted. =D> You got it my friend, as long as people are making money, war will continue.
Still can't believe I met Mike Mccready at the Guggenheim and got a pic with him!!!!!
2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin
As a rule I don't usually post in these threads because I learned long ago that there is no point, but The stuff I have read here compels me to comment.
Let me start off by saying that I am appalled by the deaths of any civilians during a military conflict (women, children, men, elderly... does not matter to me). Furthermore I am in favor of ending this conflict as soon as possible. Now to my point: I find it ridiculous how easily the anti Israel faction here jumps on any piece of unproven rumors attacking Israel dressed up as legitimate news while simultaneously state that anything that Israel says is lies and propaganda. Around 99% of the "groundbreaking journalistic scoops" here could easily be fabricated by any 10 year old with access to a computer. I am not saying it is all lies, but how about you wait for some hard proof before believing everything you read on the internet (Not even going to go in to the fact that one of the articles posted in this thread was from 10 years ago...). After all, it has been proven time and again that many of the pictures coming out of Gaza during this conflict have been fictitious (i.e. pics actually taken from the syrian conflict which is much more of a genocide than anything going on in Gaza, yet is mostly ignored). Again, not saying that everything that Israel puts out there is 100% true. Now as far as the general atmosphere in this thread, I am Israeli (if you have not figured it out yet). I am actually one of the additional 16,000 reserve soldiers being called up (I need to report in on Monday morning). The things I see posted here (not just in this thread) disgust me. Forget about the blatant nonsense written by some members here over and over concerning the intentions of Hamas trying to depict them as some noble peaceful group, what truly bothers me is the hate. For a group of people concerned about putting a stop to military conflict, many of you are filled with hate. The only way to truly stop the violence is through dialogue and not to always look for someone to blame. Both sides share the blame for this conflict and all others before it. To place the blame on only one side is not going to make anything better.
Now I would like to specifically address Byrzine: You are without a doubt one of the most hate filled people I have ever had the displeasure of being in contact with. Each time I read one of your disgusting lies I cringe. To say (on the first page of this thread) that Hamas does not target civilians boils my blood. What exactly do you think that thousands of rockets being fired from Gaza are doing? I have seen you in recent days say that the antisemitism surging in Europe is understandable and even within reason (on the "imagine that, I am still anti war" thread). I have seen you say that the Hamas rockets are nothing more than fireworks. Last time I checked, fireworks do not send millions of civilians to bomb shelters, destroy homes, injure and kill. I am not really interested in having a debate with you because you will probably just throw links to articles you found online to make your point in hopes that I will get lost. I speak from experience as someone who actually lives here. I would gladly discuss the situation with any one else here who wants to. Shoot me a PM, I have no intention of becoming a public target for the usual crowd of hate mongers that lurk these threads.
Ok, have fun delivering those bombs full of "dialogue" to the Palestinians you will be sent to kill on Monday.
As a rule I don't usually post in these threads because I learned long ago that there is no point, but The stuff I have read here compels me to comment.
Let me start off by saying that I am appalled by the deaths of any civilians during a military conflict (women, children, men, elderly... does not matter to me). Furthermore I am in favor of ending this conflict as soon as possible. Now to my point: I find it ridiculous how easily the anti Israel faction here jumps on any piece of unproven rumors attacking Israel dressed up as legitimate news while simultaneously state that anything that Israel says is lies and propaganda. Around 99% of the "groundbreaking journalistic scoops" here could easily be fabricated by any 10 year old with access to a computer. I am not saying it is all lies, but how about you wait for some hard proof before believing everything you read on the internet (Not even going to go in to the fact that one of the articles posted in this thread was from 10 years ago...). After all, it has been proven time and again that many of the pictures coming out of Gaza during this conflict have been fictitious (i.e. pics actually taken from the syrian conflict which is much more of a genocide than anything going on in Gaza, yet is mostly ignored). Again, not saying that everything that Israel puts out there is 100% true. Now as far as the general atmosphere in this thread, I am Israeli (if you have not figured it out yet). I am actually one of the additional 16,000 reserve soldiers being called up (I need to report in on Monday morning). The things I see posted here (not just in this thread) disgust me. Forget about the blatant nonsense written by some members here over and over concerning the intentions of Hamas trying to depict them as some noble peaceful group, what truly bothers me is the hate. For a group of people concerned about putting a stop to military conflict, many of you are filled with hate. The only way to truly stop the violence is through dialogue and not to always look for someone to blame. Both sides share the blame for this conflict and all others before it. To place the blame on only one side is not going to make anything better. .
So after this long rant you post youtube videos in the other Gaza thread you claim is proof that hammas uses human shields. Nothing substantiated. You are guilty of the same thing you are critical of. The same unproven rumours.
As a rule I don't usually post in these threads because I learned long ago that there is no point, but The stuff I have read here compels me to comment.
Let me start off by saying that I am appalled by the deaths of any civilians during a military conflict (women, children, men, elderly... does not matter to me). Furthermore I am in favor of ending this conflict as soon as possible. Now to my point: I find it ridiculous how easily the anti Israel faction here jumps on any piece of unproven rumors attacking Israel dressed up as legitimate news while simultaneously state that anything that Israel says is lies and propaganda. Around 99% of the "groundbreaking journalistic scoops" here could easily be fabricated by any 10 year old with access to a computer. I am not saying it is all lies, but how about you wait for some hard proof before believing everything you read on the internet (Not even going to go in to the fact that one of the articles posted in this thread was from 10 years ago...). After all, it has been proven time and again that many of the pictures coming out of Gaza during this conflict have been fictitious (i.e. pics actually taken from the syrian conflict which is much more of a genocide than anything going on in Gaza, yet is mostly ignored). Again, not saying that everything that Israel puts out there is 100% true. Now as far as the general atmosphere in this thread, I am Israeli (if you have not figured it out yet). I am actually one of the additional 16,000 reserve soldiers being called up (I need to report in on Monday morning). The things I see posted here (not just in this thread) disgust me. Forget about the blatant nonsense written by some members here over and over concerning the intentions of Hamas trying to depict them as some noble peaceful group, what truly bothers me is the hate. For a group of people concerned about putting a stop to military conflict, many of you are filled with hate. The only way to truly stop the violence is through dialogue and not to always look for someone to blame. Both sides share the blame for this conflict and all others before it. To place the blame on only one side is not going to make anything better.
Now I would like to specifically address Byrzine: You are without a doubt one of the most hate filled people I have ever had the displeasure of being in contact with. Each time I read one of your disgusting lies I cringe. To say (on the first page of this thread) that Hamas does not target civilians boils my blood. What exactly do you think that thousands of rockets being fired from Gaza are doing? I have seen you in recent days say that the antisemitism surging in Europe is understandable and even within reason (on the "imagine that, I am still anti war" thread). I have seen you say that the Hamas rockets are nothing more than fireworks. Last time I checked, fireworks do not send millions of civilians to bomb shelters, destroy homes, injure and kill. I am not really interested in having a debate with you because you will probably just throw links to articles you found online to make your point in hopes that I will get lost. I speak from experience as someone who actually lives here. I would gladly discuss the situation with any one else here who wants to. Shoot me a PM, I have no intention of becoming a public target for the usual crowd of hate mongers that lurk these threads.
Ok, have fun delivering those bombs full of "dialogue" to the Palestinians you will be sent to kill on Monday.
Yep, on one hand rafie you say 'The only way to truly stop the violence is through dialogue', yet you are still ready to go serve on monday, unless those bombs truly do have "dialogue" in them, you are supporting 'violence' that you know will not solve anything. It's just hypocritical.
Hate mongers? The army you are reporting to on Monday is massacring people, and you are here calling others hate mongers, last I checked, Byrzine was not supporting destroying people, taking over others lands...
Unfortunately violence begets violence, and the US seems to be funding both sides in the conflict, Israel directly and Hamas possibly indirectly. Who wins? The arms makers. Everyone else loses. Israel certainly has the right to defend itself, but does not have the right to continually expand its borders and oppress he Palestinians, which is why Hamas even exists. If any other nation was haphazardly or intentionally killing civilians this way, there would be prompt condemnation from the international community. I do not support my tax dollars funding bombs used on civilians.
Rafie...thanks for your input. I think you represent most Israelis. Whatever you have to do for your country, i hope you can live with and of course i hope you can live.
The only way to truly stop the violence is through dialogue and not to always look for someone to blame.
They've been dialoging for 47 years. Israel has failed to engage in good-faith negotiations to end the conflict and so now should have strict sanctions imposed on it to force it to comply with it's obligations under international law. The so-called 'peace process' is nothing but a scam. http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n16/henry-siegman/the-great-middle-east-peace-process-scam A stalling tactic behind which the Israeli's can steal more land.
Now I would like to specifically address Byrzine: You are without a doubt one of the most hate filled people I have ever had the displeasure of being in contact with.
I take that as a huge compliment considering it's fro somebody who's about to go and contribute to the mass murder of Palestinian civilians.
To say (on the first page of this thread) that Hamas does not target civilians boils my blood. What exactly do you think that thousands of rockets being fired from Gaza are doing?
The majority of them are landing in fields, and other such open spaces. The rockets are largely symbolic. They symbolize the Palestinians refusal to be continue living like dogs under the boot heel of a lunatic racist state. The Hamas/Al Qassam fighters have had opportunites to attack settlers, but they haven't. They've only attacked and killed IDF soldiers. The IDF are a bunch of fucking cowards who are only capable of murdering civilians. 1,680 Palestinians have been killed so far - approx 90% of them civilians. At least 296 children have been murdered by the IDF so far, 203 of them under the age of 12.
The crappy Palestinian rockets have killed 2 Israeli civilians.
I have seen you in recent days say that the antisemitism surging in Europe is understandable and even within reason (on the "imagine that, I am still anti war" thread).
Stop lying. I said that the mass murder of civilians understandably gives rise to racism. I said nothing about any such racism being 'within reason'.
I have seen you say that the Hamas rockets are nothing more than fireworks. Last time I checked, fireworks do not send millions of civilians to bomb shelters, destroy homes, injure and kill.
They're rudimentary at best. Pin-pricks. No comparison with the fourth largest army in the World, which is supplied and funded by the Worlds only superpower. Stop pretending that there's a level playing field. You're not fooling anyone.
I am not really interested in having a debate with you because you will probably just throw links to articles you found online to make your point in hopes that I will get lost. I speak from experience as someone who actually lives here. I would gladly discuss the situation with any one else here who wants to. Shoot me a PM, I have no intention of becoming a public target for the usual crowd of hate mongers that lurk these threads.
I am Israeli (if you have not figured it out yet). I am actually one of the additional 16,000 reserve soldiers being called up (I need to report in on Monday morning). The things I see posted here (not just in this thread) disgust me.
Good luck with your call-up. Meanwhile, more conscientious Israeli's have been standing up for the human rights of the Palestinians and refusing to murder women, children and babies.
More than 50 Israeli reservists refuse to serve Jul 23, 2014
(Reuters) - More than 50 former Israeli soldiers have refused to serve in the nation's reserve force, citing regret over their part in a military they said plays a central role in oppressing Palestinians, the Washington Post reported on Wednesday.
"We found that troops who operate in the occupied territories aren’t the only ones enforcing the mechanisms of control over Palestinian lives. In truth, the entire military is implicated. For that reason, we now refuse to participate in our reserve duties, and we support all those who resist being called to service," the soldiers wrote in a petition posted online and first reported by the newspaper.
While some Israelis have refused to serve in the Palestinian territories of the West Bank, the military's structure is such that serving in any capacity forces one to play a role in the conflict, said the soldiers, most of whom are women who would have been exempted from combat.
"Many of us served in logistical and bureaucratic support roles; there, we found that the entire military helps implement the oppression of the Palestinians," they said.
...In the petition, the soldiers pointed to the army's structure and fundamental role in Israeli society as reasons for being unable to decouple any form of service from the fighting.
"The military plays a central role in every action plan and proposal discussed in the national conversation, which explains the absence of any real argument about non-military solutions to the conflicts Israel has been locked in with its neighbors," the soldiers wrote.
"To us, the current military operation and the way militarization affects Israeli society are inseparable."
Rafie...thanks for your input. I think you represent most Israelis. Whatever you have to do for your country, i hope you can live with and of course i hope you can live.
Unfortunately, yes, he does. 90% of Israeli's currently support the mass-murder of Palestinian civilians. And many have been calling for out-and-out genocide.
66 Israeli's killed - 2 of them civilians. 1,680 Palestinians killed - 90% civilians.
I.e, The IDF are child murdering cowards.
Why don't these IDF cowards take their fight to the Hamas and Al Qassam fighters instead of murdering babies? Are they afraid that they'll get their asses handed to them on a plate like they did against Hezbollah in Lebanon?
As a rule I don't usually post in these threads because I learned long ago that there is no point, but The stuff I have read here compels me to comment.
Let me start off by saying that I am appalled by the deaths of any civilians during a military conflict (women, children, men, elderly... does not matter to me). Furthermore I am in favor of ending this conflict as soon as possible. Now to my point: I find it ridiculous how easily the anti Israel faction here jumps on any piece of unproven rumors attacking Israel dressed up as legitimate news while simultaneously state that anything that Israel says is lies and propaganda. Around 99% of the "groundbreaking journalistic scoops" here could easily be fabricated by any 10 year old with access to a computer. I am not saying it is all lies, but how about you wait for some hard proof before believing everything you read on the internet (Not even going to go in to the fact that one of the articles posted in this thread was from 10 years ago...). After all, it has been proven time and again that many of the pictures coming out of Gaza during this conflict have been fictitious (i.e. pics actually taken from the syrian conflict which is much more of a genocide than anything going on in Gaza, yet is mostly ignored). Again, not saying that everything that Israel puts out there is 100% true. Now as far as the general atmosphere in this thread, I am Israeli (if you have not figured it out yet). I am actually one of the additional 16,000 reserve soldiers being called up (I need to report in on Monday morning). The things I see posted here (not just in this thread) disgust me. Forget about the blatant nonsense written by some members here over and over concerning the intentions of Hamas trying to depict them as some noble peaceful group, what truly bothers me is the hate. For a group of people concerned about putting a stop to military conflict, many of you are filled with hate. The only way to truly stop the violence is through dialogue and not to always look for someone to blame. Both sides share the blame for this conflict and all others before it. To place the blame on only one side is not going to make anything better.
Now I would like to specifically address Byrzine: You are without a doubt one of the most hate filled people I have ever had the displeasure of being in contact with. Each time I read one of your disgusting lies I cringe. To say (on the first page of this thread) that Hamas does not target civilians boils my blood. What exactly do you think that thousands of rockets being fired from Gaza are doing? I have seen you in recent days say that the antisemitism surging in Europe is understandable and even within reason (on the "imagine that, I am still anti war" thread). I have seen you say that the Hamas rockets are nothing more than fireworks. Last time I checked, fireworks do not send millions of civilians to bomb shelters, destroy homes, injure and kill. I am not really interested in having a debate with you because you will probably just throw links to articles you found online to make your point in hopes that I will get lost. I speak from experience as someone who actually lives here. I would gladly discuss the situation with any one else here who wants to. Shoot me a PM, I have no intention of becoming a public target for the usual crowd of hate mongers that lurk these threads.
Rafie, many of us here want nothing more than the shooting on both sides to stop. For now and forever. Be safe and be well. I hope to see you back on the boards soon.
Rafie, many of us here want nothing more than the shooting on both sides to stop.
Really? Is that all you want? You want nothing more than for the shooting on both sides to stop?
And what about the illegal occupation? And the continuing illegal settlement construction? And the blockade of Gaza? And the daily settler attacks against Palestinians?
Are you o.k with all of those?
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up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,892
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Rafie, many of us here want nothing more than the shooting on both sides to stop.
Really? Is that all you want? You want nothing more than for the shooting on both sides to stop?
And what about the illegal occupation? And the continuing illegal settlement construction? And the blockade of Gaza? And the daily settler attacks against Palestinians?
Are you o.k with all of those?
To start I want the shooting to stop, yes. I also want the occupation to end. At the moment though the bombs are the most pressing issue.
Rafie, many of us here want nothing more than the shooting on both sides to stop.
Really? Is that all you want? You want nothing more than for the shooting on both sides to stop?
And what about the illegal occupation? And the continuing illegal settlement construction? And the blockade of Gaza? And the daily settler attacks against Palestinians?
Are you o.k with all of those?
Byrnzie, calm down. The first thing that has to happen before anything else is that the shooting has to stop. The daily attacks, the occupation, the illegal settlement construction. He's wishing a person well before going to war. Regardless of the side. Nothing can be done while the shooting continues. Most of us agree that the Israelis are committing haneous acts and have illegally occupied Gaza for decades. You want to argue with every statement written here, weather they agree with you or not. We all get it.
Netanyahu warns US not to try to force Israel into a Gaza ceasefire
• Israel PM tells US ‘not to ever second-guess me again’ • US and UN called naive over failed ceasefire with Hamas
Associated Press in Washington theguardian.com, Saturday 2 August 2014 18.14 BST
Following the quick collapse of the ceasefire in Gaza, the Israeli prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, told the White House not to force a truce with Palestinian militants.
Sources familiar with conversations between Netanyahu and senior US officials, including the secretary of state, John Kerry, say the Israeli leader advised the Obama administration “not to ever second-guess me again” on the matter. The officials also said Netanyahu said he should be “trusted” on the issue and about the unwillingness of Hamas to enter into and follow through on ceasefire talks.
The Obama administration on Friday condemned “outrageous” violations of an internationally brokered Gaza ceasefire by Palestinian militants and called the apparent capture of an Israeli soldier a “barbaric” action.
The strong reaction came as top Israeli officials questioned the effort to forge the truce, accusing the US and the United Nations of being naive in assuming Hamas would adhere to its terms. The officials also blamed the Gulf state of Qatar for not forcing the militants to comply.
With the ceasefire in tatters less than two hours after it took effect, with an attack that killed two Israeli troops and left a third missing, President Barack Obama demanded that those responsible release the soldier.
Obama and other US officials did not directly blame Hamas for the abduction. But they made clear they hold Hamas responsible for, or having influence over, the actions of all factions in the Gaza Strip. The language was a distinct change from Thursday, when Washington was focused on the deaths of Palestinian civilians.
“If they are serious about trying to resolve this situation, that soldier needs to be unconditionally released as soon as possible,” Obama told reporters. He added that it would be difficult to revive the ceasefire without the captive’s release.
“It’s going to be very hard to put a ceasefire back together again if Israelis and the international community can’t feel confident that Hamas can follow through on a ceasefire commitment,” he said. His comment reflected uncertainty in the US and elsewhere that Hamas was actually responsible for the incident or if some other militant group was to blame.
At the same time, Obama called the situation in Gaza “heartbreaking” and repeated calls for Israel to do more to prevent Palestinian civilian casualties.
Despite the collapse of the truce, Obama credited Kerry for his work with the United Nations to forge one. He lamented criticism and “nitpicking” of Kerry’s attempts and said the effort would continue.
Kerry negotiated the truce with the UN secretary-general, Ban Ki-moon, in a marathon session of phone calls over several days while he was in India on an official visit. Kerry had spent much of the past two weeks in Egypt, Israel, the West Bank and France trying to mediate a ceasefire, with Qatar and Turkey playing a major role because of their close ties with Hamas.
Those efforts failed with Israel saying it could not trust Hamas and some Israelis and American pro-Israel groups complaining that the US was treating the group – a foreign terrorist organisation as designated by the State Department – as a friend. Late on Thursday, however, Israel accepted Kerry and Ban’s latest proposal, despite its reservations. Once the truce was violated, though, Israeli officials hit out at not only Hamas, but the US and Qatar for its failure.
An Israeli official said the Netanyahu government viewed both Hamas and Qatar as having violated the commitment given to the US and the UN and that it expected the international community to take practical steps as part of a “strong and swift response”, especially regarding the return of the abducted soldier.
In a phone call with US ambassador to Israel Dan Shapiro, Netanyahu vented his anger, according to people familiar with the call.
Netanyahu told Shapiro the Obama administration was “not to ever second-guess me again” and that Washington should trust his judgment on how to deal with Hamas, according to the people. Netanyahu added that he now “expected” the US and other countries to fully support Israel’s offensive in Gaza, according to those familiar with the call. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorised to discuss the matter by name.
They said Netanyahu made similar points to Kerry, who himself denounced the attack as “outrageous,” saying it was an affront to assurances to respect the ceasefire given to the United States and United Nations, which brokered the truce.
The cognitive dissonance of Americans: you want wars to stop, but you tell a soldier "Good luck!" before he goes off to murder more people. Shame on those who fight to prolong Israel's occupation and oppression of Palestinians. I have the utmost respect to those few Israelis who stand up and refuse to serve in the cowardly, terrorist army.
The cognitive dissonance of Americans: you want wars to stop, but you tell a soldier "Good luck!" before he goes off to murder more people. Shame on those who fight to prolong Israel's occupation and oppression of Palestinians. I have the utmost respect to those few Israelis who stand up and refuse to serve in the cowardly, terrorist army.
Dude….hes wishing a fellow PJ fan on these boards to stay safe.Nothing more, nothing less.Us stupid Americans do shit like that!!
Comments
The United-States of America remains the largest exporter of conventional weapons in the world, according to the latest study by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI). The U.S account for 30% of global arms sales, or about $7 billion per year, for the period 2005-2009, SIPRI statement says. From 2005 to 2009, the U.S. sold one-third of its arm exports to South Korea (15%), Israel (13%) and the United Arab Emirates (11%).
http://economy.money.cnn.com/2013/06/27/weapons-exports/
The United States far outpaced the pack, and is projected to hold that lead in 2021.
"In God We Trust"
Let me start off by saying that I am appalled by the deaths of any civilians during a military conflict (women, children, men, elderly... does not matter to me). Furthermore I am in favor of ending this conflict as soon as possible. Now to my point:
I find it ridiculous how easily the anti Israel faction here jumps on any piece of unproven rumors attacking Israel dressed up as legitimate news while simultaneously state that anything that Israel says is lies and propaganda. Around 99% of the "groundbreaking journalistic scoops" here could easily be fabricated by any 10 year old with access to a computer. I am not saying it is all lies, but how about you wait for some hard proof before believing everything you read on the internet (Not even going to go in to the fact that one of the articles posted in this thread was from 10 years ago...). After all, it has been proven time and again that many of the pictures coming out of Gaza during this conflict have been fictitious (i.e. pics actually taken from the syrian conflict which is much more of a genocide than anything going on in Gaza, yet is mostly ignored). Again, not saying that everything that Israel puts out there is 100% true.
Now as far as the general atmosphere in this thread, I am Israeli (if you have not figured it out yet). I am actually one of the additional 16,000 reserve soldiers being called up (I need to report in on Monday morning). The things I see posted here (not just in this thread) disgust me. Forget about the blatant nonsense written by some members here over and over concerning the intentions of Hamas trying to depict them as some noble peaceful group, what truly bothers me is the hate. For a group of people concerned about putting a stop to military conflict, many of you are filled with hate. The only way to truly stop the violence is through dialogue and not to always look for someone to blame. Both sides share the blame for this conflict and all others before it. To place the blame on only one side is not going to make anything better.
Now I would like to specifically address Byrzine: You are without a doubt one of the most hate filled people I have ever had the displeasure of being in contact with. Each time I read one of your disgusting lies I cringe. To say (on the first page of this thread) that Hamas does not target civilians boils my blood. What exactly do you think that thousands of rockets being fired from Gaza are doing? I have seen you in recent days say that the antisemitism surging in Europe is understandable and even within reason (on the "imagine that, I am still anti war" thread). I have seen you say that the Hamas rockets are nothing more than fireworks. Last time I checked, fireworks do not send millions of civilians to bomb shelters, destroy homes, injure and kill.
I am not really interested in having a debate with you because you will probably just throw links to articles you found online to make your point in hopes that I will get lost. I speak from experience as someone who actually lives here.
I would gladly discuss the situation with any one else here who wants to. Shoot me a PM, I have no intention of becoming a public target for the usual crowd of hate mongers that lurk these threads.
2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin
2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin
Hate mongers? The army you are reporting to on Monday is massacring people, and you are here calling others hate mongers, last I checked, Byrzine was not supporting destroying people, taking over others lands...
rafie... I feel badly you are going into conflict and I wish you didn't have to.
I hope you stay well and I hope you don't have to do anything awful.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
They've been dialoging for 47 years. Israel has failed to engage in good-faith negotiations to end the conflict and so now should have strict sanctions imposed on it to force it to comply with it's obligations under international law. The so-called 'peace process' is nothing but a scam. http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n16/henry-siegman/the-great-middle-east-peace-process-scam A stalling tactic behind which the Israeli's can steal more land. I take that as a huge compliment considering it's fro somebody who's about to go and contribute to the mass murder of Palestinian civilians.
Care to provide an example? No? The majority of them are landing in fields, and other such open spaces. The rockets are largely symbolic. They symbolize the Palestinians refusal to be continue living like dogs under the boot heel of a lunatic racist state. The Hamas/Al Qassam fighters have had opportunites to attack settlers, but they haven't. They've only attacked and killed IDF soldiers. The IDF are a bunch of fucking cowards who are only capable of murdering civilians. 1,680 Palestinians have been killed so far - approx 90% of them civilians. At least 296 children have been murdered by the IDF so far, 203 of them under the age of 12.
The crappy Palestinian rockets have killed 2 Israeli civilians.
Stop lying. I said that the mass murder of civilians understandably gives rise to racism. I said nothing about any such racism being 'within reason'.
They're rudimentary at best. Pin-pricks. No comparison with the fourth largest army in the World, which is supplied and funded by the Worlds only superpower.
Stop pretending that there's a level playing field. You're not fooling anyone.
Good luck with your call-up. Meanwhile, more conscientious Israeli's have been standing up for the human rights of the Palestinians and refusing to murder women, children and babies.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/23/us-mideast-gaza-israel-reservists-idUSKBN0FS1WC20140723
More than 50 Israeli reservists refuse to serve
Jul 23, 2014
(Reuters) - More than 50 former Israeli soldiers have refused to serve in the nation's reserve force, citing regret over their part in a military they said plays a central role in oppressing Palestinians, the Washington Post reported on Wednesday.
"We found that troops who operate in the occupied territories aren’t the only ones enforcing the mechanisms of control over Palestinian lives. In truth, the entire military is implicated. For that reason, we now refuse to participate in our reserve duties, and we support all those who resist being called to service," the soldiers wrote in a petition posted online and first reported by the newspaper.
While some Israelis have refused to serve in the Palestinian territories of the West Bank, the military's structure is such that serving in any capacity forces one to play a role in the conflict, said the soldiers, most of whom are women who would have been exempted from combat.
"Many of us served in logistical and bureaucratic support roles; there, we found that the entire military helps implement the oppression of the Palestinians," they said.
...In the petition, the soldiers pointed to the army's structure and fundamental role in Israeli society as reasons for being unable to decouple any form of service from the fighting.
"The military plays a central role in every action plan and proposal discussed in the national conversation, which explains the absence of any real argument about non-military solutions to the conflicts Israel has been locked in with its neighbors," the soldiers wrote.
"To us, the current military operation and the way militarization affects Israeli society are inseparable."
1,680 Palestinians killed - 90% civilians.
I.e, The IDF are child murdering cowards.
Why don't these IDF cowards take their fight to the Hamas and Al Qassam fighters instead of murdering babies? Are they afraid that they'll get their asses handed to them on a plate like they did against Hezbollah in Lebanon?
http://bayareaintifada.wordpress.com/2014/08/03/video-evidence-of-israeli-troops-executing-6-palestinians-in-a-bathroom/
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
And what about the illegal occupation? And the continuing illegal settlement construction? And the blockade of Gaza? And the daily settler attacks against Palestinians?
Are you o.k with all of those?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Netanyahu warns US not to try to force Israel into a Gaza ceasefire
• Israel PM tells US ‘not to ever second-guess me again’
• US and UN called naive over failed ceasefire with Hamas
Associated Press in Washington
theguardian.com, Saturday 2 August 2014 18.14 BST
Following the quick collapse of the ceasefire in Gaza, the Israeli prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, told the White House not to force a truce with Palestinian militants.
Sources familiar with conversations between Netanyahu and senior US officials, including the secretary of state, John Kerry, say the Israeli leader advised the Obama administration “not to ever second-guess me again” on the matter. The officials also said Netanyahu said he should be “trusted” on the issue and about the unwillingness of Hamas to enter into and follow through on ceasefire talks.
The Obama administration on Friday condemned “outrageous” violations of an internationally brokered Gaza ceasefire by Palestinian militants and called the apparent capture of an Israeli soldier a “barbaric” action.
The strong reaction came as top Israeli officials questioned the effort to forge the truce, accusing the US and the United Nations of being naive in assuming Hamas would adhere to its terms. The officials also blamed the Gulf state of Qatar for not forcing the militants to comply.
With the ceasefire in tatters less than two hours after it took effect, with an attack that killed two Israeli troops and left a third missing, President Barack Obama demanded that those responsible release the soldier.
Obama and other US officials did not directly blame Hamas for the abduction. But they made clear they hold Hamas responsible for, or having influence over, the actions of all factions in the Gaza Strip. The language was a distinct change from Thursday, when Washington was focused on the deaths of Palestinian civilians.
“If they are serious about trying to resolve this situation, that soldier needs to be unconditionally released as soon as possible,” Obama told reporters. He added that it would be difficult to revive the ceasefire without the captive’s release.
“It’s going to be very hard to put a ceasefire back together again if Israelis and the international community can’t feel confident that Hamas can follow through on a ceasefire commitment,” he said. His comment reflected uncertainty in the US and elsewhere that Hamas was actually responsible for the incident or if some other militant group was to blame.
At the same time, Obama called the situation in Gaza “heartbreaking” and repeated calls for Israel to do more to prevent Palestinian civilian casualties.
Despite the collapse of the truce, Obama credited Kerry for his work with the United Nations to forge one. He lamented criticism and “nitpicking” of Kerry’s attempts and said the effort would continue.
Kerry negotiated the truce with the UN secretary-general, Ban Ki-moon, in a marathon session of phone calls over several days while he was in India on an official visit. Kerry had spent much of the past two weeks in Egypt, Israel, the West Bank and France trying to mediate a ceasefire, with Qatar and Turkey playing a major role because of their close ties with Hamas.
Those efforts failed with Israel saying it could not trust Hamas and some Israelis and American pro-Israel groups complaining that the US was treating the group – a foreign terrorist organisation as designated by the State Department – as a friend. Late on Thursday, however, Israel accepted Kerry and Ban’s latest proposal, despite its reservations. Once the truce was violated, though, Israeli officials hit out at not only Hamas, but the US and Qatar for its failure.
An Israeli official said the Netanyahu government viewed both Hamas and Qatar as having violated the commitment given to the US and the UN and that it expected the international community to take practical steps as part of a “strong and swift response”, especially regarding the return of the abducted soldier.
In a phone call with US ambassador to Israel Dan Shapiro, Netanyahu vented his anger, according to people familiar with the call.
Netanyahu told Shapiro the Obama administration was “not to ever second-guess me again” and that Washington should trust his judgment on how to deal with Hamas, according to the people. Netanyahu added that he now “expected” the US and other countries to fully support Israel’s offensive in Gaza, according to those familiar with the call. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorised to discuss the matter by name.
They said Netanyahu made similar points to Kerry, who himself denounced the attack as “outrageous,” saying it was an affront to assurances to respect the ceasefire given to the United States and United Nations, which brokered the truce.