I think the problem is you're dehumanizing that girl cuz you can only identify with the cop. It's been mentioned here already a simple solution should've been to carry or drag the student in the desk out of the room. She did not make the choice to be tossed out of her ask and the mocroaggression of "unarmed besides possibly a bruise or two" is not okay. You're also effectively stating that a teenager should be the responsible adult in the situation if she doesn't want to get tossed around. That is not okay.
I haven't dehumanized her in any way. Get serious, man.
You're effectively excusing her belligerence. That is not okay.
So it's okay for you to excuse his belligerence, but not okay for Ident to excuse hers?
I think the problem is you're dehumanizing that girl cuz you can only identify with the cop. It's been mentioned here already a simple solution should've been to carry or drag the student in the desk out of the room. She did not make the choice to be tossed out of her ask and the mocroaggression of "unarmed besides possibly a bruise or two" is not okay. You're also effectively stating that a teenager should be the responsible adult in the situation if she doesn't want to get tossed around. That is not okay.
I haven't dehumanized her in any way. Get serious, man.
You're effectively excusing her belligerence. That is not okay.
So it's okay for you to excuse his belligerence, but not okay for Ident to excuse hers?
Yah whatever, man.
I'd prepared a little more, bit I'm not going to bother. Seriously... I have no more energy to argue this.
I think the problem is you're dehumanizing that girl cuz you can only identify with the cop. It's been mentioned here already a simple solution should've been to carry or drag the student in the desk out of the room. She did not make the choice to be tossed out of her ask and the mocroaggression of "unarmed besides possibly a bruise or two" is not okay. You're also effectively stating that a teenager should be the responsible adult in the situation if she doesn't want to get tossed around. That is not okay.
I haven't dehumanized her in any way. Get serious, man.
You're effectively excusing her belligerence. That is not okay.
So it's okay for you to excuse his belligerence, but not okay for Ident to excuse hers?
Yah whatever, man.
I'd prepared a little more, bit I'm not going to bother. Seriously... I have no more energy to argue this.
I think the problem is you're dehumanizing that girl cuz you can only identify with the cop. It's been mentioned here already a simple solution should've been to carry or drag the student in the desk out of the room. She did not make the choice to be tossed out of her ask and the mocroaggression of "unarmed besides possibly a bruise or two" is not okay. You're also effectively stating that a teenager should be the responsible adult in the situation if she doesn't want to get tossed around. That is not okay.
I haven't dehumanized her in any way. Get serious, man.
You're effectively excusing her belligerence. That is not okay.
So it's okay for you to excuse his belligerence, but not okay for Ident to excuse hers?
Yah whatever, man.
I'd prepared a little more, bit I'm not going to bother. Seriously... I have no more energy to argue this.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
This was the exchange you are commenting on:
ID (to 30): I think the problem is you're dehumanizing that girl cuz you can only identify with the cop... You're also effectively stating that a teenager should be the responsible adult in the situation if she doesn't want to get tossed around. That is not okay.
30 (response to ID): I haven't dehumanized her in any way. Get serious, man. You're effectively excusing her belligerence. That is not okay.
ID (response to 30): I'm not excusing her belligerence. I've said over and over and over that she was wrong. But her being wrong did not justify that officer's response. So much else could have been done.
30 (response to ID): There was plenty done up to that point in time. While I would agree that this could have been handled better... there were plenty of exit points for the young lady to take advantage of which she failed to- insisting on escalating the problem.
ID (response to 30): Again with the microaggressions . I think you don't even realize you are doing it, which is scary... PJSoul, you think intellect is necessary for empathy? I agree with your entire point I've just found this intriguing cuz I've never thought of it that way. I will have to reflect on this a bit.
The last post is comical. It attempts to paint me as a cold, callous individual initially. Then, likely motivated by the need to really make some form of cutting remark, essentially suggests I lack intelligence. Really clever.
So... your sloppy submission I have quoted fails to take into account who fired first. Your 'what's good for the goose is good for the gander' is appropriate... except you might have failed to note who it was more applicable to.
I'm not surprised though. Fact: every post, regardless of tact or fact, that is critical of police in any capacity glows with a golden hue in RG's world. Any post that merits consideration or stands to reason in support of the police may as well be covered in dog shit.
Fact: you're biased and exceptionally so. You are one of the people I referred to in a post (that was largely ignored) which stated there are some opponents of the police who are just as blatantly biased as the 'apologists' they make a habit of criticizing for their lack of objectivity.
How come the genius experts never came out in droves to offer the bona fide, golden classroom management tactic for that second video Musky submitted?
In that situation, the teacher did nothing- just like many suggested the teacher in the first video should have done (prior to seeking assistance from administration who subsequently sought the police). It's not a solid practice for schools to do just do nothing when presented with a never ending stream of challenges throughout the day- most of the minor variety... some escalating to the larger variety if left unchecked.
In fact, the reason why the behaviour we witnessed in that video presented itself is that there has been a systematic failure on the school's part to maintain order and discipline. Those kids acted the way they did because they can get away with acting like they did.
Recently, in this thread, ID insisted that teenagers are allowed to act like assholes. So, I'm assuming when this behaviour presented itself... the teacher in that video performed exactly as ID would hope for? That video demonstrated education performing at its peak providing an outstanding learning environment?
As a side: some of the same people wondered why there was no emergency phone so that the teacher could call for assistance when red shirt (among the rest of them) was acting like an ass. Who was she going to phone? More importantly... what was that person going to do when they got there?
I think the problem is you're dehumanizing that girl cuz you can only identify with the cop. It's been mentioned here already a simple solution should've been to carry or drag the student in the desk out of the room. She did not make the choice to be tossed out of her ask and the mocroaggression of "unarmed besides possibly a bruise or two" is not okay. You're also effectively stating that a teenager should be the responsible adult in the situation if she doesn't want to get tossed around. That is not okay.
I haven't dehumanized her in any way. Get serious, man.
You're effectively excusing her belligerence. That is not okay.
So it's okay for you to excuse his belligerence, but not okay for Ident to excuse hers?
Yah whatever, man.
I'd prepared a little more, bit I'm not going to bother. Seriously... I have no more energy to argue this.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
This was the exchange you are commenting on:
ID (to 30): I think the problem is you're dehumanizing that girl cuz you can only identify with the cop... You're also effectively stating that a teenager should be the responsible adult in the situation if she doesn't want to get tossed around. That is not okay.
30 (response to ID): I haven't dehumanized her in any way. Get serious, man. You're effectively excusing her belligerence. That is not okay.
ID (response to 30): I'm not excusing her belligerence. I've said over and over and over that she was wrong. But her being wrong did not justify that officer's response. So much else could have been done.
30 (response to ID): There was plenty done up to that point in time. While I would agree that this could have been handled better... there were plenty of exit points for the young lady to take advantage of which she failed to- insisting on escalating the problem.
ID (response to 30): Again with the microaggressions . I think you don't even realize you are doing it, which is scary... PJSoul, you think intellect is necessary for empathy? I agree with your entire point I've just found this intriguing cuz I've never thought of it that way. I will have to reflect on this a bit.
The last post is comical. It attempts to paint me as a cold, callous individual initially. Then, likely motivated by the need to really make some form of cutting remark, essentially suggests I lack intelligence. Really clever.
So... your sloppy submission I have quoted fails to take into account who fired first. Your 'what's good for the goose is good for the gander' is appropriate... except you might have failed to note who it was more applicable to.
I'm not surprised though. Fact: every post, regardless of tact or fact, that is critical of police in any capacity glows with a golden hue in RG's world. Any post that merits consideration or stands to reason in support of the police may as well be covered in dog shit.
Fact: you're biased and exceptionally so. You are one of the people I referred to in a post (that was largely ignored) which stated there are some opponents of the police who are just as blatantly biased as the 'apologists' they make a habit of criticizing for their lack of objectivity.
I only quoted the first 2 pieces of the exchange, and those were the only two I was addressing. In those 2 you accuse Ident of excusing her behavior by focusing on his, which he? was clearly not doing anyways, but you (as usual) fail to apply your logic in both directions. If you did, you would see that you are doing the exact same thing.
Sloppy submission, golden hue, and dogshit notwithstanding, I am pretty confident were any outsider to read these exchanges they would see who carries themselves with dignity and respect, and who doesn't.
I think the problem is you're dehumanizing that girl cuz you can only identify with the cop. It's been mentioned here already a simple solution should've been to carry or drag the student in the desk out of the room. She did not make the choice to be tossed out of her ask and the mocroaggression of "unarmed besides possibly a bruise or two" is not okay. You're also effectively stating that a teenager should be the responsible adult in the situation if she doesn't want to get tossed around. That is not okay.
I haven't dehumanized her in any way. Get serious, man.
You're effectively excusing her belligerence. That is not okay.
So it's okay for you to excuse his belligerence, but not okay for Ident to excuse hers?
Yah whatever, man.
I'd prepared a little more, bit I'm not going to bother. Seriously... I have no more energy to argue this.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
This was the exchange you are commenting on:
ID (to 30): I think the problem is you're dehumanizing that girl cuz you can only identify with the cop... You're also effectively stating that a teenager should be the responsible adult in the situation if she doesn't want to get tossed around. That is not okay.
30 (response to ID): I haven't dehumanized her in any way. Get serious, man. You're effectively excusing her belligerence. That is not okay.
ID (response to 30): I'm not excusing her belligerence. I've said over and over and over that she was wrong. But her being wrong did not justify that officer's response. So much else could have been done.
30 (response to ID): There was plenty done up to that point in time. While I would agree that this could have been handled better... there were plenty of exit points for the young lady to take advantage of which she failed to- insisting on escalating the problem.
ID (response to 30): Again with the microaggressions . I think you don't even realize you are doing it, which is scary... PJSoul, you think intellect is necessary for empathy? I agree with your entire point I've just found this intriguing cuz I've never thought of it that way. I will have to reflect on this a bit.
The last post is comical. It attempts to paint me as a cold, callous individual initially. Then, likely motivated by the need to really make some form of cutting remark, essentially suggests I lack intelligence. Really clever.
So... your sloppy submission I have quoted fails to take into account who fired first. Your 'what's good for the goose is good for the gander' is appropriate... except you might have failed to note who it was more applicable to.
I'm not surprised though. Fact: every post, regardless of tact or fact, that is critical of police in any capacity glows with a golden hue in RG's world. Any post that merits consideration or stands to reason in support of the police may as well be covered in dog shit.
Fact: you're biased and exceptionally so. You are one of the people I referred to in a post (that was largely ignored) which stated there are some opponents of the police who are just as blatantly biased as the 'apologists' they make a habit of criticizing for their lack of objectivity.
I only quoted the first 2 pieces of the exchange, and those were the only two I was addressing. In those 2 you accuse Ident of excusing her behavior by focusing on his, which he? was clearly not doing anyways, but you (as usual) fail to apply your logic in both directions. If you did, you would see that you are doing the exact same thing.
Sloppy submission, golden hue, and dogshit notwithstanding, I am pretty confident were any outsider to read these exchanges they would see who carries themselves with dignity and respect, and who doesn't.
This is your response?
I challenged your words and approach to this subject and you challenge my character?
I think the problem is you're dehumanizing that girl cuz you can only identify with the cop. It's been mentioned here already a simple solution should've been to carry or drag the student in the desk out of the room. She did not make the choice to be tossed out of her ask and the mocroaggression of "unarmed besides possibly a bruise or two" is not okay. You're also effectively stating that a teenager should be the responsible adult in the situation if she doesn't want to get tossed around. That is not okay.
I haven't dehumanized her in any way. Get serious, man.
You're effectively excusing her belligerence. That is not okay.
So it's okay for you to excuse his belligerence, but not okay for Ident to excuse hers?
Yah whatever, man.
I'd prepared a little more, bit I'm not going to bother. Seriously... I have no more energy to argue this.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
This was the exchange you are commenting on:
ID (to 30): I think the problem is you're dehumanizing that girl cuz you can only identify with the cop... You're also effectively stating that a teenager should be the responsible adult in the situation if she doesn't want to get tossed around. That is not okay.
30 (response to ID): I haven't dehumanized her in any way. Get serious, man. You're effectively excusing her belligerence. That is not okay.
ID (response to 30): I'm not excusing her belligerence. I've said over and over and over that she was wrong. But her being wrong did not justify that officer's response. So much else could have been done.
30 (response to ID): There was plenty done up to that point in time. While I would agree that this could have been handled better... there were plenty of exit points for the young lady to take advantage of which she failed to- insisting on escalating the problem.
ID (response to 30): Again with the microaggressions . I think you don't even realize you are doing it, which is scary... PJSoul, you think intellect is necessary for empathy? I agree with your entire point I've just found this intriguing cuz I've never thought of it that way. I will have to reflect on this a bit.
The last post is comical. It attempts to paint me as a cold, callous individual initially. Then, likely motivated by the need to really make some form of cutting remark, essentially suggests I lack intelligence. Really clever.
So... your sloppy submission I have quoted fails to take into account who fired first. Your 'what's good for the goose is good for the gander' is appropriate... except you might have failed to note who it was more applicable to.
I'm not surprised though. Fact: every post, regardless of tact or fact, that is critical of police in any capacity glows with a golden hue in RG's world. Any post that merits consideration or stands to reason in support of the police may as well be covered in dog shit.
Fact: you're biased and exceptionally so. You are one of the people I referred to in a post (that was largely ignored) which stated there are some opponents of the police who are just as blatantly biased as the 'apologists' they make a habit of criticizing for their lack of objectivity.
I only quoted the first 2 pieces of the exchange, and those were the only two I was addressing. In those 2 you accuse Ident of excusing her behavior by focusing on his, which he? was clearly not doing anyways, but you (as usual) fail to apply your logic in both directions. If you did, you would see that you are doing the exact same thing.
Sloppy submission, golden hue, and dogshit notwithstanding, I am pretty confident were any outsider to read these exchanges they would see who carries themselves with dignity and respect, and who doesn't.
This is your response?
I challenged your words and approach to this subject and you challenge my character?
I could go from here, but I think I rest my case.
Not your character, your posts. You rest your case? lol
I'm not excusing her belligerence. I've said over and over and over that she was wrong. But her being wrong did not justify that officer's response. So much else could have been done.
There was plenty done up to that point in time. While I would agree that this could have been handled better... there were plenty of exit points for the young lady to take advantage of which she failed to- insisting on escalating the problem.
Again with the microaggressions . I think you don't even realize you are doing it, which is scary. The "young lady" is a teenager. She is allowed to be an asshole. That's why adults are in charge of teenagers, to teach them not to be assholes once their brain finishes developing and their hormones even out. This particular teenager had even more cause to act like an asshole, which I'm not including in this cuz it's already been established that we don't know if the cop was aware of it or not. A teenager being an asshole (unless they're being a violent asshole) should not be met with violence from an adult authority figure. Because adults are supposed to know better than teenagers. She was not "insisting on escalating the problem" that is just outright victim blaming, and it's framing the narrative to be impossible for the adults involved to have responsibility for what occurred, because her actions dictate the situation, which should not be the case given she's the teenager.
PJSoul, you think intellect is necessary for empathy? I agree with your entire point I've just found this intriguing cuz I've never thought of it that way. I will have to reflect on this a bit.
1. You have said she was not "insisting on escalating the problem" which is interesting.
She became indignant and defiant over a modest request that fell within the learning parameters set by the school. With each new intervention aimed at fixing the problem she had created... the problem was becoming more serious. By her defiance... she allowed the problem to escalate. So, yes Ident42... she was a rather large player in this entire event's escalation to the point where police were called to handle it (a questionable tactic on the part of the school).
2. You used the term 'victim blaming' (the new buzzword around here... you've been reading!).
Well... duh... yah. I am laying the majority of responsibility for this problem on her- it's her problem. I've also expressed the officer's actions seemed excessive and that the school needed to deal with this without calling the police, but these are their problems to which they can face. Their actions don't minimize her passive aggressive, confrontational and defiant attitude towards the school's authority- something schools are losing badly in recent times.
I know there are some around here that think the schools should have no authority (or cops, or government, or...). I'm not one of these people.
3. Her situation is one that did warrant special attention. The school, understanding her unique situation, should have not called the police. They should have been more sympathetic to her emotional state and called some staff member the girl associated with in a positive way to help diffuse the situation.
But a cop was called and I think once that has been done, as I've said, the gig is up. The school went for the hammer when it could have been more gentle.
* Your veiled insult has been noted by me (it wasn't as clever as you think).
I'm sorry if you felt insulted - that was not my intent at all. I don't know which part you think was a veiled insult but I assure you I didn't mean to include any insult. The only thing we even disagree on in this incident is the weight on responsibility on the girl, and that's why I keep engaging cuz I thought it was a good discussion. My bad dude.
oh shit my bad thirty I didn't realize there was another page after that - I DID NOT in any way shape or form mean to imply that my question to PJS was about you. I don't think you lack intelligence. I was genuinely just asking her cuz of the way she said that they should try to find cops with more intellect because they will have more empathy - and that is genuinely the only time I've ever seen a correlation made between empathy and intellect. Usually when I'm talking about someone lacking empathy their intelligence isn't even on the table. So I was genuinely just intrigued by her statement. I guess I could have put it in a different post but I was posting from my phone and that shits annoying. So I assure you - it was a totally different subject and not at all directed at you. I'm not sure why you thought it was, but again, I do apologize if you felt insulted, I really was not talking about you. I think the problem is (now that I've gone back and actually read that wall of text you posted) you missed a whole lot of text between me expressing concern over your casual use of microaggressions and the question I directed at PJSoul, which I'm going to stress, again, had nothing to do with you.
Also, "victim blaming" is not a buzzword. It is a common practice in our society, and it sure as shit ain't something I learned about in a 10c forum.
The teacher in the detention video should've had access to a phone to call security to ask the rowdy kids to leave and escort them to the office so their guardians/parents could be called. That was standard practice "in my day". I do think the teacher should've gone to the doorway to see if anyone was in the hall that could help her. She was clearly out of her depth with those kids.
oh shit my bad thirty I didn't realize there was another page after that - I DID NOT in any way shape or form mean to imply that my question to PJS was about you. I don't think you lack intelligence. I was genuinely just asking her cuz of the way she said that they should try to find cops with more intellect because they will have more empathy - and that is genuinely the only time I've ever seen a correlation made between empathy and intellect. Usually when I'm talking about someone lacking empathy their intelligence isn't even on the table. So I was genuinely just intrigued by her statement. I guess I could have put it in a different post but I was posting from my phone and that shits annoying. So I assure you - it was a totally different subject and not at all directed at you. I'm not sure why you thought it was, but again, I do apologize if you felt insulted, I really was not talking about you. I think the problem is (now that I've gone back and actually read that wall of text you posted) you missed a whole lot of text between me expressing concern over your casual use of microaggressions and the question I directed at PJSoul, which I'm going to stress, again, had nothing to do with you.
Also, "victim blaming" is not a buzzword. It is a common practice in our society, and it sure as shit ain't something I learned about in a 10c forum.
The teacher in the detention video should've had access to a phone to call security to ask the rowdy kids to leave and escort them to the office so their guardians/parents could be called. That was standard practice "in my day". I do think the teacher should've gone to the doorway to see if anyone was in the hall that could help her. She was clearly out of her depth with those kids.
No problems.
I understand how phones can wreak havoc with intent on this forum.
Ident, I really should have said Intelligence rather than intellect. There is a difference..... Here is a nice quote about it from Jiddu Krishnamurti: "Intelligence comes into being when one acts in perfect harmony, both intellectually and emotionally." That is what I think a lot of cops lack these days.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Ident, I really should have said Intelligence rather than intellect. There is a difference..... Here is a nice quote about it from Jiddu Krishnamurti: "Intelligence comes into being when one acts in perfect harmony, both intellectually and emotionally." That is what I think a lot of cops lack these days.
Oh. That's disappointing. I understand what you meant now it's just not at all what I was thinking originally.
Tbh honest it has made me consider the people I know personally who lack empathy and try to figure out if they lack intellect or if I'm just being mean cuz I'm a judgemental asshole.
You seem like a fellow that cares deeply, yet you are very judgemental.
Ha. Irony TB. You just judged me and you do it often. But yes I'm guilty as well. We go at it hard BUT in spirit of debating.
Wait a second... I never have said I'm not judgemental. I am. I would like to add a qualifier to that though- I'm judgemental if one gives me good reason to be. I don't think I'm alone in these parts having said that.
Would you like to explain your thought process on that? It's OT so I don't wanna press, but I am curious as to your reasoning because I don't see it.
On topic though had this thought thinking about a young man in office that was given 4 year degree to good college, given job at top corporation recruited out of college, had strong family, never hungry or cold yet walking with him on streets of city and he made disparaging remarks on the homeless.
So thought of the student/cop confrontation and just reinforced how I saw her differently from some of my fellow train members.
I saw a minor, a female, an adolescent, in difficult environment(school), African American, likely poor (yes she had a fkn cell phone) not included in the American dream rebelling. I see her struggles and can't imagine how all that must suck. Then the man, a WHITE COP, coming in and laying his hand on her. Empathy. Using wrong definition?
Would you like to explain your thought process on that? It's OT so I don't wanna press, but I am curious as to your reasoning because I don't see it.
On topic though had this thought thinking about a young man in office that was given 4 year degree to good college, given job at top corporation recruited out of college, had strong family, never hungry or cold yet walking with him on streets of city and he made disparaging remarks on the homeless.
So thought of the student/cop confrontation and just reinforced how I saw her differently from some of my fellow train members.
I saw a minor, a female, an adolescent, in difficult environment(school), African American, likely poor (yes she had a fkn cell phone) not included in the American dream rebelling. I see her struggles and can't imagine how all that must suck. Then the man, a WHITE COP, coming in and laying his hand on her. Empathy. Using wrong definition?
The situation you depict is unfairly laid at the cop's feet.
Society is a whole is responsible for the problems you lament. The cop was being a cop. Yes... seemingly excessive... but we don't train our cops to be social workers: we train them to be problem solvers and we place upon them the most challenging problems.
He did give her one last chance before resorting to forceful tactics. As I've said... the gig was up. There was no need for her to die on the sword- she had made her point long before.
Would you like to explain your thought process on that? It's OT so I don't wanna press, but I am curious as to your reasoning because I don't see it.
On topic though had this thought thinking about a young man in office that was given 4 year degree to good college, given job at top corporation recruited out of college, had strong family, never hungry or cold yet walking with him on streets of city and he made disparaging remarks on the homeless.
So thought of the student/cop confrontation and just reinforced how I saw her differently from some of my fellow train members.
I saw a minor, a female, an adolescent, in difficult environment(school), African American, likely poor (yes she had a fkn cell phone) not included in the American dream rebelling. I see her struggles and can't imagine how all that must suck. Then the man, a WHITE COP, coming in and laying his hand on her. Empathy. Using wrong definition?
The situation you depict is unfairly laid at the cop's feet.
Society is a whole is responsible for the problems you lament. The cop was being a cop. Yes... seemingly excessive... but we don't train our cops to be social workers: we train them to be problem solvers and we place upon them the most challenging problems.
He did give her one last chance before resorting to forceful tactics. As I've said... the gig was up. There was no need for her to die on the sword- she had made her point long before.
The question at hand though is does that qualify as empathy or sympathy? The privileged man disparaging the homeless was clearly lacking empathy. But does callen's perspective of the student qualify as empathy or sympathy? I'd say it's hard to tell.
Would you like to explain your thought process on that? It's OT so I don't wanna press, but I am curious as to your reasoning because I don't see it.
On topic though had this thought thinking about a young man in office that was given 4 year degree to good college, given job at top corporation recruited out of college, had strong family, never hungry or cold yet walking with him on streets of city and he made disparaging remarks on the homeless.
So thought of the student/cop confrontation and just reinforced how I saw her differently from some of my fellow train members.
I saw a minor, a female, an adolescent, in difficult environment(school), African American, likely poor (yes she had a fkn cell phone) not included in the American dream rebelling. I see her struggles and can't imagine how all that must suck. Then the man, a WHITE COP, coming in and laying his hand on her. Empathy. Using wrong definition?
I also think you're talking about sympathy here. If it were empathy, you COULD imagine how all that must suck.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Would you like to explain your thought process on that? It's OT so I don't wanna press, but I am curious as to your reasoning because I don't see it.
On topic though had this thought thinking about a young man in office that was given 4 year degree to good college, given job at top corporation recruited out of college, had strong family, never hungry or cold yet walking with him on streets of city and he made disparaging remarks on the homeless.
So thought of the student/cop confrontation and just reinforced how I saw her differently from some of my fellow train members.
I saw a minor, a female, an adolescent, in difficult environment(school), African American, likely poor (yes she had a fkn cell phone) not included in the American dream rebelling. I see her struggles and can't imagine how all that must suck. Then the man, a WHITE COP, coming in and laying his hand on her. Empathy. Using wrong definition?
The situation you depict is unfairly laid at the cop's feet.
Society is a whole is responsible for the problems you lament. The cop was being a cop. Yes... seemingly excessive... but we don't train our cops to be social workers: we train them to be problem solvers and we place upon them the most challenging problems.
He did give her one last chance before resorting to forceful tactics. As I've said... the gig was up. There was no need for her to die on the sword- she had made her point long before.
The question at hand though is does that qualify as empathy or sympathy? The privileged man disparaging the homeless was clearly lacking empathy. But does callen's perspective of the student qualify as empathy or sympathy? I'd say it's hard to tell.
I think it's a successful blend of both.
As a side... you can empathize or sympathize with the girl and still be critical of her behaviour.
Would you like to explain your thought process on that? It's OT so I don't wanna press, but I am curious as to your reasoning because I don't see it.
On topic though had this thought thinking about a young man in office that was given 4 year degree to good college, given job at top corporation recruited out of college, had strong family, never hungry or cold yet walking with him on streets of city and he made disparaging remarks on the homeless.
So thought of the student/cop confrontation and just reinforced how I saw her differently from some of my fellow train members.
I saw a minor, a female, an adolescent, in difficult environment(school), African American, likely poor (yes she had a fkn cell phone) not included in the American dream rebelling. I see her struggles and can't imagine how all that must suck. Then the man, a WHITE COP, coming in and laying his hand on her. Empathy. Using wrong definition?
The situation you depict is unfairly laid at the cop's feet.
Society is a whole is responsible for the problems you lament. The cop was being a cop. Yes... seemingly excessive... but we don't train our cops to be social workers: we train them to be problem solvers and we place upon them the most challenging problems.
He did give her one last chance before resorting to forceful tactics. As I've said... the gig was up. There was no need for her to die on the sword- she had made her point long before.
The question at hand though is does that qualify as empathy or sympathy? The privileged man disparaging the homeless was clearly lacking empathy. But does callen's perspective of the student qualify as empathy or sympathy? I'd say it's hard to tell.
I think it's a successful blend of both.
As a side... you can empathize or sympathize with the girl and still be critical of her behaviour.
Comments
I'd prepared a little more, bit I'm not going to bother. Seriously... I have no more energy to argue this.
ID (to 30): I think the problem is you're dehumanizing that girl cuz you can only identify with the cop... You're also effectively stating that a teenager should be the responsible adult in the situation if she doesn't want to get tossed around. That is not okay.
30 (response to ID): I haven't dehumanized her in any way. Get serious, man. You're effectively excusing her belligerence. That is not okay.
ID (response to 30): I'm not excusing her belligerence. I've said over and over and over that she was wrong. But her being wrong did not justify that officer's response. So much else could have been done.
30 (response to ID): There was plenty done up to that point in time. While I would agree that this could have been handled better... there were plenty of exit points for the young lady to take advantage of which she failed to- insisting on escalating the problem.
ID (response to 30): Again with the microaggressions . I think you don't even realize you are doing it, which is scary... PJSoul, you think intellect is necessary for empathy? I agree with your entire point I've just found this intriguing cuz I've never thought of it that way. I will have to reflect on this a bit.
The last post is comical. It attempts to paint me as a cold, callous individual initially. Then, likely motivated by the need to really make some form of cutting remark, essentially suggests I lack intelligence. Really clever.
So... your sloppy submission I have quoted fails to take into account who fired first. Your 'what's good for the goose is good for the gander' is appropriate... except you might have failed to note who it was more applicable to.
I'm not surprised though. Fact: every post, regardless of tact or fact, that is critical of police in any capacity glows with a golden hue in RG's world. Any post that merits consideration or stands to reason in support of the police may as well be covered in dog shit.
Fact: you're biased and exceptionally so. You are one of the people I referred to in a post (that was largely ignored) which stated there are some opponents of the police who are just as blatantly biased as the 'apologists' they make a habit of criticizing for their lack of objectivity.
In that situation, the teacher did nothing- just like many suggested the teacher in the first video should have done (prior to seeking assistance from administration who subsequently sought the police). It's not a solid practice for schools to do just do nothing when presented with a never ending stream of challenges throughout the day- most of the minor variety... some escalating to the larger variety if left unchecked.
In fact, the reason why the behaviour we witnessed in that video presented itself is that there has been a systematic failure on the school's part to maintain order and discipline. Those kids acted the way they did because they can get away with acting like they did.
Recently, in this thread, ID insisted that teenagers are allowed to act like assholes. So, I'm assuming when this behaviour presented itself... the teacher in that video performed exactly as ID would hope for? That video demonstrated education performing at its peak providing an outstanding learning environment?
As a side: some of the same people wondered why there was no emergency phone so that the teacher could call for assistance when red shirt (among the rest of them) was acting like an ass. Who was she going to phone? More importantly... what was that person going to do when they got there?
Sloppy submission, golden hue, and dogshit notwithstanding, I am pretty confident were any outsider to read these exchanges they would see who carries themselves with dignity and respect, and who doesn't.
I challenged your words and approach to this subject and you challenge my character?
I could go from here, but I think I rest my case.
You rest your case? lol
LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435
Also, "victim blaming" is not a buzzword. It is a common practice in our society, and it sure as shit ain't something I learned about in a 10c forum.
The teacher in the detention video should've had access to a phone to call security to ask the rowdy kids to leave and escort them to the office so their guardians/parents could be called. That was standard practice "in my day". I do think the teacher should've gone to the doorway to see if anyone was in the hall that could help her. She was clearly out of her depth with those kids.
LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435
I understand how phones can wreak havoc with intent on this forum.
Thanks for taking the time to clarify.
Tbh honest it has made me consider the people I know personally who lack empathy and try to figure out if they lack intellect or if I'm just being mean cuz I'm a judgemental asshole.
LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435
You seem like a fellow that cares deeply, yet you are very judgemental.
LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435
LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/563c9b73e4b0307f2cacff0d
This is one of the strangest stories around right now.
So thought of the student/cop confrontation and just reinforced how I saw her differently from some of my fellow train members.
I saw a minor, a female, an adolescent, in difficult environment(school), African American, likely poor (yes she had a fkn cell phone) not included in the American dream rebelling. I see her struggles and can't imagine how all that must suck. Then the man, a WHITE COP, coming in and laying his hand on her. Empathy. Using wrong definition?
Society is a whole is responsible for the problems you lament. The cop was being a cop. Yes... seemingly excessive... but we don't train our cops to be social workers: we train them to be problem solvers and we place upon them the most challenging problems.
He did give her one last chance before resorting to forceful tactics. As I've said... the gig was up. There was no need for her to die on the sword- she had made her point long before.
LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435
As a side... you can empathize or sympathize with the girl and still be critical of her behaviour.