Police abuse

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  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,877
    mace1229 said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    mace1229 said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    So all the "bad cops" videos reminds me of shark attacks.  They happen all the time but they hardly get reported until it's the latest buzz. Remember when the news was reporting about shark sightings every day?

    The cop videos are all a buzz now too.  It's the "in" thing to report on.

    Something should be done but it's being sensationalized too.
    I agree with it being sensationalized. I absolutely believe they make it worse. I saw several guests on the news talk about Brown and the reason he resisted and fought was because he knew if he got handcuffed the police would kill him, so he was fighting for his life. And the anchor doesn’t dispute that, and then makes comments like it’s open season on black men.
    Something like 0.003% of police interactions with blacks are fatal  (I forget where I heard that, but seems reasonable when you consider there are tens of millions of police interactions every year and comparatively how few are fatal) . Yes, it should be 0% and yes we should make changes to improve it. But to categorize all cops as racists and that it’s open season just isn’t accurate and it creates a bigger problem when you convince an entire population they are going to die if they don’t fight back.
    The sad irony of this vilification of police is that it's going to lead to MORE incidents like George Floyd. What good person that wants to help people is going to want to a cop? They'll all get into different professions, and ten years or so from now, the entire police force coast-to-coast might be filled with Derek Chauvin-types. The "LET'S GO ON PATROL!" type of guys. Those guys aren't big into the "To Serve and Protect" form of policing. 
    Right. I would Also imagine any cop within retirement age is going to be retiring sooner than later. Leaving a shortage of cops with less funds to replace them. So the quality of candidates will go down even more 
    This should be viewed as a good thing.

    New recruits, new teachings.
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 10,039
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mace1229 said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    mace1229 said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    So all the "bad cops" videos reminds me of shark attacks.  They happen all the time but they hardly get reported until it's the latest buzz. Remember when the news was reporting about shark sightings every day?

    The cop videos are all a buzz now too.  It's the "in" thing to report on.

    Something should be done but it's being sensationalized too.
    I agree with it being sensationalized. I absolutely believe they make it worse. I saw several guests on the news talk about Brown and the reason he resisted and fought was because he knew if he got handcuffed the police would kill him, so he was fighting for his life. And the anchor doesn’t dispute that, and then makes comments like it’s open season on black men.
    Something like 0.003% of police interactions with blacks are fatal  (I forget where I heard that, but seems reasonable when you consider there are tens of millions of police interactions every year and comparatively how few are fatal) . Yes, it should be 0% and yes we should make changes to improve it. But to categorize all cops as racists and that it’s open season just isn’t accurate and it creates a bigger problem when you convince an entire population they are going to die if they don’t fight back.
    The sad irony of this vilification of police is that it's going to lead to MORE incidents like George Floyd. What good person that wants to help people is going to want to a cop? They'll all get into different professions, and ten years or so from now, the entire police force coast-to-coast might be filled with Derek Chauvin-types. The "LET'S GO ON PATROL!" type of guys. Those guys aren't big into the "To Serve and Protect" form of policing. 
    Right. I would Also imagine any cop within retirement age is going to be retiring sooner than later. Leaving a shortage of cops with less funds to replace them. So the quality of candidates will go down even more 
    This should be viewed as a good thing.

    New recruits, new teachings.
    It could be. But when I hear so many complaining about the quality of recruits being low, it’s just going to get lower with less funding and more demand
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 45,236
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mace1229 said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    mace1229 said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    So all the "bad cops" videos reminds me of shark attacks.  They happen all the time but they hardly get reported until it's the latest buzz. Remember when the news was reporting about shark sightings every day?

    The cop videos are all a buzz now too.  It's the "in" thing to report on.

    Something should be done but it's being sensationalized too.
    I agree with it being sensationalized. I absolutely believe they make it worse. I saw several guests on the news talk about Brown and the reason he resisted and fought was because he knew if he got handcuffed the police would kill him, so he was fighting for his life. And the anchor doesn’t dispute that, and then makes comments like it’s open season on black men.
    Something like 0.003% of police interactions with blacks are fatal  (I forget where I heard that, but seems reasonable when you consider there are tens of millions of police interactions every year and comparatively how few are fatal) . Yes, it should be 0% and yes we should make changes to improve it. But to categorize all cops as racists and that it’s open season just isn’t accurate and it creates a bigger problem when you convince an entire population they are going to die if they don’t fight back.
    The sad irony of this vilification of police is that it's going to lead to MORE incidents like George Floyd. What good person that wants to help people is going to want to a cop? They'll all get into different professions, and ten years or so from now, the entire police force coast-to-coast might be filled with Derek Chauvin-types. The "LET'S GO ON PATROL!" type of guys. Those guys aren't big into the "To Serve and Protect" form of policing. 
    Right. I would Also imagine any cop within retirement age is going to be retiring sooner than later. Leaving a shortage of cops with less funds to replace them. So the quality of candidates will go down even more 
    This should be viewed as a good thing.

    New recruits, new teachings.
    which only goes as far as them getting to their training officer. Chauvin was a training officer....

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  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 10,039
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mace1229 said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    mace1229 said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    So all the "bad cops" videos reminds me of shark attacks.  They happen all the time but they hardly get reported until it's the latest buzz. Remember when the news was reporting about shark sightings every day?

    The cop videos are all a buzz now too.  It's the "in" thing to report on.

    Something should be done but it's being sensationalized too.
    I agree with it being sensationalized. I absolutely believe they make it worse. I saw several guests on the news talk about Brown and the reason he resisted and fought was because he knew if he got handcuffed the police would kill him, so he was fighting for his life. And the anchor doesn’t dispute that, and then makes comments like it’s open season on black men.
    Something like 0.003% of police interactions with blacks are fatal  (I forget where I heard that, but seems reasonable when you consider there are tens of millions of police interactions every year and comparatively how few are fatal) . Yes, it should be 0% and yes we should make changes to improve it. But to categorize all cops as racists and that it’s open season just isn’t accurate and it creates a bigger problem when you convince an entire population they are going to die if they don’t fight back.
    The sad irony of this vilification of police is that it's going to lead to MORE incidents like George Floyd. What good person that wants to help people is going to want to a cop? They'll all get into different professions, and ten years or so from now, the entire police force coast-to-coast might be filled with Derek Chauvin-types. The "LET'S GO ON PATROL!" type of guys. Those guys aren't big into the "To Serve and Protect" form of policing. 
    Right. I would Also imagine any cop within retirement age is going to be retiring sooner than later. Leaving a shortage of cops with less funds to replace them. So the quality of candidates will go down even more 
    This should be viewed as a good thing.

    New recruits, new teachings.
    It could be. But when I hear so many complaining about the quality of recruits being low, it’s just going to get lower with less funding and more demand
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,877
    mickeyrat said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mace1229 said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    mace1229 said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    So all the "bad cops" videos reminds me of shark attacks.  They happen all the time but they hardly get reported until it's the latest buzz. Remember when the news was reporting about shark sightings every day?

    The cop videos are all a buzz now too.  It's the "in" thing to report on.

    Something should be done but it's being sensationalized too.
    I agree with it being sensationalized. I absolutely believe they make it worse. I saw several guests on the news talk about Brown and the reason he resisted and fought was because he knew if he got handcuffed the police would kill him, so he was fighting for his life. And the anchor doesn’t dispute that, and then makes comments like it’s open season on black men.
    Something like 0.003% of police interactions with blacks are fatal  (I forget where I heard that, but seems reasonable when you consider there are tens of millions of police interactions every year and comparatively how few are fatal) . Yes, it should be 0% and yes we should make changes to improve it. But to categorize all cops as racists and that it’s open season just isn’t accurate and it creates a bigger problem when you convince an entire population they are going to die if they don’t fight back.
    The sad irony of this vilification of police is that it's going to lead to MORE incidents like George Floyd. What good person that wants to help people is going to want to a cop? They'll all get into different professions, and ten years or so from now, the entire police force coast-to-coast might be filled with Derek Chauvin-types. The "LET'S GO ON PATROL!" type of guys. Those guys aren't big into the "To Serve and Protect" form of policing. 
    Right. I would Also imagine any cop within retirement age is going to be retiring sooner than later. Leaving a shortage of cops with less funds to replace them. So the quality of candidates will go down even more 
    This should be viewed as a good thing.

    New recruits, new teachings.
    which only goes as far as them getting to their training officer. Chauvin was a training officer....

    New teaching though.  That would help a lot.
  • nicknyr15
    nicknyr15 Posts: 9,445
    https://nypost.com/2020/06/21/why-shootings-are-soaring-across-nyc/

    Yay! FTP! 
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,877
    nicknyr15 said:
    https://nypost.com/2020/06/21/why-shootings-are-soaring-across-nyc/

    Yay! FTP! 
    I'm not buying the "stop and frisk" being stopped recently as the rise for the shootings.  Now way.
  • nicknyr15
    nicknyr15 Posts: 9,445
    tempo_n_groove said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    https://nypost.com/2020/06/21/why-shootings-are-soaring-across-nyc/

    Yay! FTP! 
    I'm not buying the "stop and frisk" being stopped recently as the rise for the shootings.  Now way.
    Whatever the reason is, it’s not good. 
  • cutz
    cutz Posts: 12,328
    edited June 2020
    cutz said:

    Post edited by cutz on
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    I’ll just say that two officers (one young, the other nearing retirement age) helped me tremendously at the hospital today. Didn’t have to but chose to. It made a difference. 
  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,666
    Good opinion piece in the Boston Globe today on accountability. This process is infuriating.

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/06/23/opinion/how-reduce-police-violence-boston/?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true


  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,666

  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,666
    Interesting. AP has a story on the same topic today with national examples.

    https://apnews.com/d098a19c1c34749d763fd57a721d9e1d?utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow
  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,210
    pjl44 said:
    Interesting. AP has a story on the same topic today with national examples.

    https://apnews.com/d098a19c1c34749d763fd57a721d9e1d?utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow
    Wow.  How are you gonna reform a system like that? Seems like it really is time to look for an alternative.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,666
    static111 said:
    pjl44 said:
    Interesting. AP has a story on the same topic today with national examples.

    https://apnews.com/d098a19c1c34749d763fd57a721d9e1d?utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow
    Wow.  How are you gonna reform a system like that? Seems like it really is time to look for an alternative.
    I could be wrong, but I think we're at a bit of an inflection point. Things have been way out of control for a while and I think there is support for big police reforms that could actually make a difference. But if the same people and same excuses continue to get in the way, I think support for blowing the whole thing up will grow.
  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,210
    pjl44 said:
    static111 said:
    pjl44 said:
    Interesting. AP has a story on the same topic today with national examples.

    https://apnews.com/d098a19c1c34749d763fd57a721d9e1d?utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow
    Wow.  How are you gonna reform a system like that? Seems like it really is time to look for an alternative.
    I could be wrong, but I think we're at a bit of an inflection point. Things have been way out of control for a while and I think there is support for big police reforms that could actually make a difference. But if the same people and same excuses continue to get in the way, I think support for blowing the whole thing up will grow.
    Which is why people are saying the hated slogan Defund The Police.  I mean how many times can you reform and reinvent etc and have it not work before people just see the word reform as dirty and ineffectual?
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,697
    static111 said:
    pjl44 said:
    static111 said:
    pjl44 said:
    Interesting. AP has a story on the same topic today with national examples.

    https://apnews.com/d098a19c1c34749d763fd57a721d9e1d?utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow
    Wow.  How are you gonna reform a system like that? Seems like it really is time to look for an alternative.
    I could be wrong, but I think we're at a bit of an inflection point. Things have been way out of control for a while and I think there is support for big police reforms that could actually make a difference. But if the same people and same excuses continue to get in the way, I think support for blowing the whole thing up will grow.
    Which is why people are saying the hated slogan Defund The Police.  I mean how many times can you reform and reinvent etc and have it not work before people just see the word reform as dirty and ineffectual?
    Yeah, it's tough.  Maybe I'm just a white guy from the suburbs, but the idea of trying to just eliminate the police (and I know that's not what "defund" is) is unsettling.  The kind of changes that I feel like are needed, though will probably take a long, long time and I understand why blacks that feel their lives are in danger every time they're near a cop don't have the patience (or trust) for long-term change.

    So everything I'm thinking about, which is a long game, I am thinking about from a position of...wait for it...it exists...privilege.  I saw an interesting stat about the sheer number of people killed by US police vs. those killed by police in other countries...and it isn't even close.  Some of those countries needed years of training (like going to college) and I was taken about by the minimal training police need here. There's a huge cultural shift that needs to be made in terms of their mentality ("enforce" vs. "protect/serve"), etc.  Changing a culture is difficult without blowing it up and starting over.  It's difficult.
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  • Ledbetterman10
    Ledbetterman10 Posts: 17,016
    edited June 2020
    Yikes. Not sure if this was posted here. But this is from last August. The bottom tweet is the incident with the cops. 





    Damn shame this didn't get any attention then. This kid would have been a much better face of all of this than George Floyd. Here's a petition to try and get them to reopen the case....

    http://chng.it/b9PGMzfnNM
    Post edited by Ledbetterman10 on
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1

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  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,210
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    Yikes. Not sure if this was posted here. But this is from last August. The bottom tweet is the incident with the cops. 





    Damn shame this didn't get any attention then. This kid would have been a much better face of all of this than George Floyd. Here's a petition to try and get them to reopen the case....

    http://chng.it/b9PGMzfnNM
    Holy fuck.  They injected him with ketamine on top of the restraining. For wearing a jacket and ski mask....and the officers still serve.  How did this not make the news when it happened?  As for George Floyd being the face of the movement I’m still fine with that.  Everyone deserves to try to do better and not be forever in debt to prior criminal charges that they have paid for.  The goal is for convicts to be reformed and it sounds like he was doing just that.  He (unfortunately for him) was the one that was there when the cameras were rolling and the tipping point was reached.  
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • Ledbetterman10
    Ledbetterman10 Posts: 17,016
    static111 said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    Yikes. Not sure if this was posted here. But this is from last August. The bottom tweet is the incident with the cops. 





    Damn shame this didn't get any attention then. This kid would have been a much better face of all of this than George Floyd. Here's a petition to try and get them to reopen the case....

    http://chng.it/b9PGMzfnNM
    Holy fuck.  They injected him with ketamine on top of the restraining. For wearing a jacket and ski mask....and the officers still serve.  How did this not make the news when it happened?  As for George Floyd being the face of the movement I’m still fine with that.  Everyone deserves to try to do better and not be forever in debt to prior criminal charges that they have paid for.  The goal is for convicts to be reformed and it sounds like he was doing just that.  He (unfortunately for him) was the one that was there when the cameras were rolling and the tipping point was reached.  
    I didn't even notice the ketamine mention on the petition site. Unbelievable. As for Floyd being the face of this, I guess Dave Chappelle said it best, "We didn't choose him. You [the cops, presumably] did."
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