The whole 'Hamas using children as shields' is a moot argument..IDF have shown this week they have no problem shooting and killing children even at play..i'll refer you to the 4 Palestinian boys killed on the beach by an IDF warship. Don't tell me they couldnt make out what they were firing at..they knew exactly what they were aiming for..
What I find interesting is that Jews think that they're so special that they even deserve their own special brand of racism.
Apparently there's racism, and then there's anti-Semitism. And we're all supposed to just nod in agreement.
None of my Jewish family feel this way.
Within this clusterfuck of a thread, I still respect so many people - you as well, though our views on some issues diverge - but that comment up there is quite misguided and to me, comes across as hateful.
I'm agnostic but born and raised Jewish, and feel I'm no more "special" than anyone else.
I dont think anyone was being singled out, Hedonist, but there are some here defending Israels actions with a blind unquestioning devotion and all the while can't answer simple questions or acknowledge that the majority of casualities and fatalities have been Palestinian children...it's appalling..
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
edited July 2014
eldarion, I don't condone blinders either - no matter who's defending whom.
And yes, this whole thing (almost feels disrespectful calling this a "thing") is beyond appalling and sad and so very divisive.
edited to address your first comment, eldarion - how it was written, seemed to expressly single out.
Arguing against antisemitism while children and innocents are being killed plays right into the hands of those that actually do have antisemitic beliefs. Israel's reputation is taking a huge hit here in the US. I don't care what the news or the polls say. I can see it happening in almost every conversation I have. These debates are hurting it even more.
I have argued against anti-Americanism before and will again, but there is a time and a place for such discussions. This is not that time. Israel and its supporters would serve themselves well to acknowledge that.
eldarion, I don't condone blinders either - no matter who's defending whom.
And yes, this whole thing (almost feels disrespectful calling this a "thing") is beyond appalling and sad and so very divisive.
edited to address your first comment, eldarion - how it was written, seemed to expressly single out.
Stephen Hawking once said that we will only forget borders, creed, all the divisions we keep, once we face an external threat, meaning aliens i presume...
but the first real sign of intelligent life in the universe, is that they dont come here...why would they? we're worse than barbaric..
eldarion, I don't condone blinders either - no matter who's defending whom.
And yes, this whole thing (almost feels disrespectful calling this a "thing") is beyond appalling and sad and so very divisive.
edited to address your first comment, eldarion - how it was written, seemed to expressly single out.
It really is so easy to get caught up in the politics here and as much as the whole mess is terrible and appalling, the message of this thread was originally about having hope for peace, ending war, spreading love.
Let's get behind those thoughts here and take the political volleys back to AMT where it is better suited.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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WhatYouTaughtMe
I have no idea what's going on right now! Posts: 4,957
eldarion, I don't condone blinders either - no matter who's defending whom.
And yes, this whole thing (almost feels disrespectful calling this a "thing") is beyond appalling and sad and so very divisive.
edited to address your first comment, eldarion - how it was written, seemed to expressly single out.
It really is so easy to get caught up in the politics here and as much as the whole mess is terrible and appalling, the message of this thread was originally about having hope for peace, ending war, spreading love.
Let's get behind those thoughts here and take the political volleys back to AMT where it is better suited.
eldarion, I don't condone blinders either - no matter who's defending whom.
And yes, this whole thing (almost feels disrespectful calling this a "thing") is beyond appalling and sad and so very divisive.
edited to address your first comment, eldarion - how it was written, seemed to expressly single out.
It really is so easy to get caught up in the politics here and as much as the whole mess is terrible and appalling, the message of this thread was originally about having hope for peace, ending war, spreading love.
Let's get behind those thoughts here and take the political volleys back to AMT where it is better suited.
I'm OK with the political debate (and I have contributed to it) but I do think Brian makes a good point. There are several appropriate threads currently running on AMT for this discussion. Maybe it is time to move it there.
I honestly believe Eddie was talking about much more than just this one conflict.
Actually, it's not a war, it's a massacre. A war is when two armies are fighting. That's not the case in Gaza. What we have in Gaza is one of the most powerful military's in the World attacking a largely defenseless civilian population.
Actually, it's not a war, it's a massacre. A war is when two armies are fighting. That's not the case in Gaza. What we have in Gaza is one of the most powerful military's in the World attacking a largely defenseless civilian population.
Exactly
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
eldarion, I don't condone blinders either - no matter who's defending whom.
And yes, this whole thing (almost feels disrespectful calling this a "thing") is beyond appalling and sad and so very divisive.
edited to address your first comment, eldarion - how it was written, seemed to expressly single out.
It really is so easy to get caught up in the politics here and as much as the whole mess is terrible and appalling, the message of this thread was originally about having hope for peace, ending war, spreading love.
Let's get behind those thoughts here and take the political volleys back to AMT where it is better suited.
Yeah... D'oh! Edited with apologies, Brian - I had typed out a response that began with the above but there was more and thought I'd saved it as a draft. Getting used to a new laptop and this mofo is challenging me! Anyway, the gist of what you said, agreed.
So where exactly is the criticism towards Hamas? I think we have the criticism towards the Israeli government covered, and it's all.very valid... so now what about discussing the other side of the problem? I have a strong impression that somehow Hamas is getting a pass while everyone protests Israel.... this seems like a dodgy road to be taking. At what point does Hamas take this ball and run with it in directions that will freak you all out?
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
So where exactly is the criticism towards Hamas? I think we have the criticism towards the Israeli government covered, and it's all.very valid... so now what about discussing the other side of the problem? I have a strong impression that somehow Hamas is getting a pass while everyone protests Israel.... this seems like a dodgy road to be taking. At what point does Hamas take this ball and run with it in directions that will freak you all out?
My point exactly. Hamas spent years building a terror tunnel network instead of bettering the lives of their own people. How does one get to peace with a partner like that?
hamas built those tunnels to sneak in much needed food and medical supplies according to some. I dont doubt that. Israel cut off their water and electricity, what do you want them to do?
is that guy serious? making a post like that at a time like this
Very serious. In the world of social media those that are only slightly paying attention will be bombarded with images of various protests. Some of the images will be the "die-in's" and "the children being told to carry signs" that you are fond of. Some images will be of protestors attacking synagogues and businesses. Other images will be of boobs. People tend to gravitate towards boobs.
hamas built those tunnels to sneak in much needed food and medical supplies according to some. I dont doubt that. Israel cut off their water and electricity, what do you want them to do?
Of course you don't doubt that. It's amazing that the Palestinians in the West Bank are surviving without a tunnel network.
Comments
http://www.channel4.com/news/the-children-of-gaza-jon-snow-video
Within this clusterfuck of a thread, I still respect so many people - you as well, though our views on some issues diverge - but that comment up there is quite misguided and to me, comes across as hateful.
I'm agnostic but born and raised Jewish, and feel I'm no more "special" than anyone else.
And yes, this whole thing (almost feels disrespectful calling this a "thing") is beyond appalling and sad and so very divisive.
edited to address your first comment, eldarion - how it was written, seemed to expressly single out.
I have argued against anti-Americanism before and will again, but there is a time and a place for such discussions. This is not that time. Israel and its supporters would serve themselves well to acknowledge that.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
but the first real sign of intelligent life in the universe, is that they dont come here...why would they? we're worse than barbaric..
please explain IDF killing 4 young boys playing soccer on a beach this week?
Let's get behind those thoughts here and take the political volleys back to AMT where it is better suited.
I honestly believe Eddie was talking about much more than just this one conflict.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Israel soldiers...
D'oh!
Edited with apologies, Brian - I had typed out a response that began with the above but there was more and thought I'd saved it as a draft. Getting used to a new laptop and this mofo is challenging me! Anyway, the gist of what you said, agreed.
https://www.facebook.com/StandingWithIDF
So seriously, do people really see stuff like this and let it affect their views on the subject? That is terrifying.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/26/world/middleeast/beneath-israel-gaza-border-tunnels-used-by-palestinian-militants-have-been-found-by-israeli-forces-since-ground-invasion.html?_r=1