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Imagine That -- I’m Still Anti-War

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    badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:
    Ya the shit happening in syria is off the wall no doubt. But you know what I noticed in those pics in the article, not a child was killed. Imagine that, a Syrian army is capable of hitting places and KILLING adult men but not kids or women. Interesting. They must have better equipment then Israel which if it is the case, better call the military complex of America and get a refund. Or that Israel is targeting women/children intentionally. Which is it???

    And just for the record, can we stop with the racist labeling. We all know byrnzie isn't an anti-Semite. He made a comment as to people feel that way towards Jews. He didn't say HE FEELS that way just that with what Israel is doing, he's stating that they shouldn't be surprised that people feel that way towards them. That's what I think he meant. I know byrnzie on here for awhile, he's not an anti-Semite or racist towards Jews. I'm sure he also has some Jewish friends. Zionism and Judaism are 2 different forms. One can have anger towards one without being a racist.
    1) The third picture from the top is a kid on a stretcher. Either way if you are suggesting children have been spared in Syria you are either a fool or a liar.

    2) Byrnzie has made multiple posts saying basically that Israel is made up of Jews and therefore Jew hatred is bound to escalate. He then goes on with the suggestion that if somewhere in the world one or two jews is attacked for being jewish why should anyone really care because look at the devastation in Gaza. So we can be completely clear on this point...THIS IS NOT OK.
    Funny, now I'm a fool or a liar. We all know syria is fucked up but that's a CIVIL fucken war not ANYTHING like gaza. And if u think it is, well sir, you're either a fool or a liar.
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    BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:
    Ya the shit happening in syria is off the wall no doubt. But you know what I noticed in those pics in the article, not a child was killed. Imagine that, a Syrian army is capable of hitting places and KILLING adult men but not kids or women. Interesting. They must have better equipment then Israel which if it is the case, better call the military complex of America and get a refund. Or that Israel is targeting women/children intentionally. Which is it???

    And just for the record, can we stop with the racist labeling. We all know byrnzie isn't an anti-Semite. He made a comment as to people feel that way towards Jews. He didn't say HE FEELS that way just that with what Israel is doing, he's stating that they shouldn't be surprised that people feel that way towards them. That's what I think he meant. I know byrnzie on here for awhile, he's not an anti-Semite or racist towards Jews. I'm sure he also has some Jewish friends. Zionism and Judaism are 2 different forms. One can have anger towards one without being a racist.
    1) The third picture from the top is a kid on a stretcher. Either way if you are suggesting children have been spared in Syria you are either a fool or a liar.

    2) Byrnzie has made multiple posts saying basically that Israel is made up of Jews and therefore Jew hatred is bound to escalate. He then goes on with the suggestion that if somewhere in the world one or two jews is attacked for being jewish why should anyone really care because look at the devastation in Gaza. So we can be completely clear on this point...THIS IS NOT OK.
    We all know syria is fucked up but that's a CIVIL fucken war not ANYTHING like gaza.
    You are right. There are about a hundred thousand more dead muslims in Syria. I guess you only storm the message boards though or sign petitions when Israel is involved. Your selective outrage is telling.
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    badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    edited July 2014
    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:
    Ya the shit happening in syria is off the wall no doubt. But you know what I noticed in those pics in the article, not a child was killed. Imagine that, a Syrian army is capable of hitting places and KILLING adult men but not kids or women. Interesting. They must have better equipment then Israel which if it is the case, better call the military complex of America and get a refund. Or that Israel is targeting women/children intentionally. Which is it???

    And just for the record, can we stop with the racist labeling. We all know byrnzie isn't an anti-Semite. He made a comment as to people feel that way towards Jews. He didn't say HE FEELS that way just that with what Israel is doing, he's stating that they shouldn't be surprised that people feel that way towards them. That's what I think he meant. I know byrnzie on here for awhile, he's not an anti-Semite or racist towards Jews. I'm sure he also has some Jewish friends. Zionism and Judaism are 2 different forms. One can have anger towards one without being a racist.
    1) The third picture from the top is a kid on a stretcher. Either way if you are suggesting children have been spared in Syria you are either a fool or a liar.

    2) Byrnzie has made multiple posts saying basically that Israel is made up of Jews and therefore Jew hatred is bound to escalate. He then goes on with the suggestion that if somewhere in the world one or two jews is attacked for being jewish why should anyone really care because look at the devastation in Gaza. So we can be completely clear on this point...THIS IS NOT OK.
    We all know syria is fucked up but that's a CIVIL fucken war not ANYTHING like gaza.
    You are right. There are about a hundred thousand more dead muslims in Syria. I guess you only storm the message boards though or sign petitions when Israel is involved. Your selective outrage is telling.
    Ya u know me well. AGAIN, 2 different kinds of situations. One is a civil war and the other, well, do we really have to go through this again? And again, my selective outrage is telling? What, you gonna label me an anti-Semite or racist to. You're a fucken joke, stop already. You're throwing that card around like 50 cent throwing Benjamins at a strip club. You labeled byrnzie, eldarion and myself "not" directly, as racists and anti-Semites. You don't even know what the fuck the word actually means. I'm done with you trolling. BS, fitting for a screen name. Fits you perfect. To think that they're are people in this world as heartless and clueless as you. BS, making Israel proud.
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    BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    dignin said:

    Luckytwn1 said:



    A survey last month by the anti-defamation league found that 26% of those polled — representing approximately 1.1 billion adults worldwide — harbor deeply anti-Semitic views. If you are searching for these people, you need look no further than the streets outside of Israeli embassies across the world, where anti-Semites disguised as humanitarians from Sydney to Boston demand an end to the imagined Gaza genocide.

    So if I protest against this "war" I'm an anti-Semite?
    Dignin, you and I and byrnzie and eldarion and Gimmie and drowned out and whoever else have chosen to speak up, are no anti-Semites.

    Debatable


    Hahahahahaha
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    EdsonNascimentoEdsonNascimento Posts: 5,507
    edited July 2014

    Hamas is offering Israel a 10-year truce if it accepts 10 conditions. The Jerusalem Post reports, based on an Israeli Channel 2 newscast.

    1. Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border.
    2. Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths.
    3. Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people.
    4. Establishing an international seaport and airport which would be under U.N. supervision.
    5. Increasing the permitted fishing zone to 10 kilometers.
    6. Internationalizing the Rafah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations.
    7. International forces on the borders.
    8. Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque.
    9. Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement.
    10. Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip.

    Are these demands unreasonable or extreme ?

    You are extraordinarily stupid if you think those mean what they do as they are written or that they are remotely reasonable based on what they would actually mean.

    Oh, and why would Israel be responsible for building an airport and seaport if they are "vacating the premises?"

    This is almost as bad as the - their bombs suck so dont use your bombs ethos. Yikes.
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
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    ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    BS44325 said:

    Let it be clear to everyone here what Byrnzie just wrote. Not anger at the State of Israel but racism against Jews.

    Yeah, let's be clear on what I said.

    "Racism against Jews is perfectly understandable at this point in time. Only a fool would believe otherwise. It's only to be expected that Jews will be subjected to racial hatred whilst the Israeli's are busy carrying out their latest spree of mass murder."

    Palestinians are being massacred in their hundreds. This is provoking hatred against Jews in some corners of the World. And we're supposed to be surprised? Really?

    And now you're gonna try and play the anti-Semitism card with me? Though I shouldn't be surprised, as I'm used to this bullshit from Israel's apologists by now.

    Meanwhile, Palestinian men, women, and children are being slaughtered...



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    ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    PJ_Soul said:

    Yep. So should we keep just assuming he's anti-Semitic at this point, or consider it a fact? I guess that comment could be interpreted in a way to excuse him from actually being racist towards Jews himself, but really just saying that anti-semitism is understandable and only fools wouldn't agree says quite a bit. (And i guess I am a fool).

    Anyone actually taking to heart the things Byrnzie says on this topic, please just bear his comment here in mind first. Take his posts with a grain or chunk of salt.

    Assume what you like. I stopped taking anything you said seriously a long time ago.

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    ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    BS44325 said:

    Byrnzie has made multiple posts saying basically that Israel is made up of Jews and therefore Jew hatred is bound to escalate. He then goes on with the suggestion that if somewhere in the world one or two jews is attacked for being jewish why should anyone really care because look at the devastation in Gaza. So we can be completely clear on this point...THIS IS NOT OK.

    Yeah, that's right. You're simply deflecting. There's a far bigger crime taking place right now, in case you haven't noticed.

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    ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited July 2014
    BS44325 said:

    Let it be clear to everyone here what Byrnzie just wrote. Not anger at the State of Israel but racism against Jews.

    Meanwhile...

    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/rania-khalek/merciless-israeli-mobs-are-hunting-palestinians

    Merciless Israeli mobs are hunting Palestinians
    07/27/2014


    All eyes are on Gaza, where the death toll from Israel’s merciless bombing campaign has topped 1,000.

    But back in Jerusalem, where sixteen-year-old Muhammad Abu Khudair was burned alive by Jewish vigilantes in a “revenge killing” incited by Israeli politicians early this month, right-wing lynch mobs continue to roam the streets in search of Arabs to attack.

    Their most recent victims are twenty-year-old Palestinians Amir Shwiki and Samer Mahfouz from the Beit Hannina neighborhood in occupied East Jerusalem. The pair were severely beaten into unconsciousness on Friday night by Israeli youths armed with iron bars and baseball bats.

    Mahfouz told the Israeli newspaper Haaretz that he and Shwiki were on their way to the light rail when they were stopped by “a man [coming] from the direction of Neve Yaakov,” an illegal Jewish-only Israeli settlement in occupied East Jerusalem.

    “He said give me a cigarette. I told him I don’t have any, and he heard [from my accent] I’m Arab and went away, coming back with his friends, maybe twelve people. They had sticks and iron bars and they hit us over the head,” Mahfouz recounted.

    Haaretz added, “According to the victims, police officers that arrived at the scene did not call an ambulance, and they were instead evacuated by passersby to receive medical treatment at a Beit Khanina [sic] clinic. They were later rushed to Hadassah University Hospital, Ein Karem in serious condition.”

    Though investigators believe the beating to be racially motivated, no one has been arrested...

    ...On Thursday night last week, police teamed up with a Jewish mob assaulting two Palestinian men while they were delivering bread to grocery markets on Jaffa Street in West Jerusalem from their van.

    The men — identified by Ma’an News Agency as twenty-year-old Amir Mazin Abu Eisha and Laith Ubeidat (age not specified) — were encircled and beaten with empty bottles by a mob of some twenty to thirty Israelis, according to their attorney, Khaldun Nijim.

    Rather than assist the men as they were being attacked, Nijim told Ma’an, “The Israeli police stopped them in their van and pointed guns at them.”

    Nijim added: “After they drove away a few meters, the police shot at them. They then stopped and were assaulted again.”

    ...Last week in Haifa, the Arab deputy mayor and his son were brutally beaten by a mob of Jewish supremacists chanting “death to Arabs” and “death to leftists” in response to a rally against the Gaza onslaught. Police did nothing to stop the assault.


    ...Israeli blogger Elizabeth Tsurkov, who has been regularly attending and live-tweeting the racist attacks against anti-war demonstrators in recent weeks, heard a new racist chant mocking the more than two hundred children slaughtered by Israel’s merciless bombing campaign in Gaza: “Tomorrow there’s no school in Gaza, they don’t have any children left.”

    Post edited by Byrnzie on
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    ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    image
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    badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    Byrnzie said:

    image

    Yup, not targeting children. Funny and sad, sub Israel or jews with those posts and Israelis would be crying anti-semitism.
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    ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited July 2014
    Yep, babies are being slaughtered, and if you understand why some idiots may be encouraged to do the Nazi salute at a demo then you must be racist.
    Funny, I was discussing how an ambulance was targeted by the IDF yesterday and 8 people killed, including four children. The person I was debating with on Twitter replied that someone at a demo in Paris gave the Nazi salute.
    Yep, that's worth taking seriously. I mean, those incidents really are on a par, right?

    I said I understand why anti-Semitic incidents would occur at this point in time. I didn't say that I support or condone them. But let's not let that stop certain people from deflecting from the real issues, and of attempting some character assassination in the process.
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    ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited July 2014
    image

    image
    Post edited by Byrnzie on
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    ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Sure, but if you criticize Israel's slaughter of Palestinians, including 218 children, two-thirds of whom were under the age of 12, then you're apparently a racist.
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    ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    image

    http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Poll-865-percent-of-Israelis-oppose-cease-fire-369064

    Survey says that should Netanyahu choose to end Gaza operation at this time, he would be confronting the overwhelming majority of the nation.


    Public opinion in Israel is solidly against ending Operation Protective Edge in the Gaza Strip, according to a poll released Sunday.

    The poll was conducted by pollster Mina Tzemach among 504 respondents, a representative sample of the Hebrew-speaking Israeli adult population. It was sponsored by strategist Roni Rimon, who once worked with Likud and Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu, but who insisted he took it at his own initiative.
    Related:

    When asking about a potential cease-fire, the poll gave two choices. The first endorsed a ceasefire because “Israel had enough achievements, soldiers have died, and it is time to stop.” The second said Israel cannot accept a cease-fire because “Hamas continues firing missiles on Israel, not all the tunnels have been found, and Hamas has not surrendered.”

    Only 9.7 percent chose option one, 86.5% option two, and 3.8% said they did not know. Men were more likely to want the operation to continue than women.

    Asked how they would rate the operation if a cease-fire happened Sunday, 2.2% said a big success, 22.6% a good result, and 47.6% a so-so result. Asked about Hamas’s gain if that should happen, 14.9% said it would be a good result for Hamas, 8.7% said a great success for Hamas, and 4% did not know.
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    my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    rssesq said:

    Remember when the President said if he had a son he would look like Trayvon.
    He might also look a little like those 4 kids blown up on a beach while playing soccer.
    Where in the hell is the NAACP, the Black Congressional Caucus, Eugene Robinson, Rev. Al Sharpton, Harold Ford, Jr., Cory Booker and/or Jesse Jackson on this issue? Is EVERYONE OF THEM ON MSNBC's payroll?

    "Mind over matter, MOUTH in motion, cant defy cuz I'll never be QUIET!" Chuck D, "A MESSAGE TO A BLACK MAN"

    Good luck with that

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    SpagsSpags Leigh-on-Sea, UK Posts: 3,001
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    dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam NINUNINOPRO Posts: 139,490
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
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    DreamyDanDreamyDan netherlands/belgium Posts: 83
    not sure if i want to throw myself into an anti-pro anything debate here {too hopelessly emotional and sensitive for that...} but i just need to say how shocked i was when i read the comments underneath the Facebook post from Rolling Stone Mag, where people were calling Ed all sorts of horrible, just because he dared to speak out against war?!! not even taking sides or anything, just saying 'War hurts, no matter which side the bombs are faling on...'

    i personally concur with all he said in his letter, especially the following:
    With all the global achievements in modern technology,
    enhanced communication and information devices, cracking the
    human genome, land rovers on Mars etc., do we really have to
    resign ourselves to the devastating reality that conflict will be
    resolved with bombs, murder and acts of barbarism?

    We are such a remarkable species. Capable of creating beauty.
    Capable of awe-inspiring advancements. We must be capable of
    resolving conflicts without bloodshed.


    beautiful words coming from a beautiful person...
     
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    JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 18,998
    DreamyDan said:

    not sure if i want to throw myself into an anti-pro anything debate here {too hopelessly emotional and sensitive for that...} but i just need to say how shocked i was when i read the comments underneath the Facebook post from Rolling Stone Mag, where people were calling Ed all sorts of horrible, just because he dared to speak out against war?!! not even taking sides or anything, just saying 'War hurts, no matter which side the bombs are faling on...'

    i personally concur with all he said in his letter, especially the following:
    With all the global achievements in modern technology,
    enhanced communication and information devices, cracking the
    human genome, land rovers on Mars etc., do we really have to
    resign ourselves to the devastating reality that conflict will be
    resolved with bombs, murder and acts of barbarism?

    We are such a remarkable species. Capable of creating beauty.
    Capable of awe-inspiring advancements. We must be capable of
    resolving conflicts without bloodshed.


    beautiful words coming from a beautiful person...

    Couldn't agree more. Rise above any pro-this or anti-that stance. To do anything less shortchanges the point Eddie was trying to make. There is too much war, there are too many conflicts, and it needs to stop.

    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
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    ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    And you think it's gonna stop by doing nothing?

    image
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    ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited July 2014
    ....
    Post edited by Byrnzie on
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    ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/gaza-graveyard-sing-joyful-israeli-youths

    “Gaza is a graveyard,” sing joyful Israeli youths

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7qFACSfd_k

    In her latest post, my colleague Rania Khalek makes reference to “a new racist chant mocking the more than two hundred children slaughtered by Israel’s merciless bombing campaign in Gaza: ‘Tomorrow there’s no school in Gaza, they don’t have any children left.’”

    This video shows an Israeli mob actually singing in celebration of children’s deaths in the style of a soccer fans’ song: “In Gaza there’s no studying, No children are left there, Olé, olé, olé-olé-olé.”
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    DreamyDanDreamyDan netherlands/belgium Posts: 83
    edited July 2014
    Byrnzie said:

    And you think it's gonna stop by doing nothing?

    i have no idea, but so far the Going In Guns Blazing Approach doesn't appear to have done a great deal of good... in the long run... guess i'm taking the 'hippie' approach of being pro-peace, in anything...

    with JimmyV on this one..
    Rise above any pro-this or anti-that stance. To do anything less shortchanges the point Eddie was trying to make. There is too much war, there are too many conflicts, and it needs to stop.
     
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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,983
    DreamyDan said:

    Byrnzie said:

    And you think it's gonna stop by doing nothing?

    i have no idea, but so far the Going In Guns Blazing Approach doesn't appear to have done a great deal of good... in the long run... guess i'm taking the 'hippie' approach of being pro-peace, in anything...

    with JimmyV on this one..
    Rise above any pro-this or anti-that stance. To do anything less shortchanges the point Eddie was trying to make. There is too much war, there are too many conflicts, and it needs to stop.
    Ya, to my mind the whole fundamentalist, true believer, nationalistic way of thinking is what leads to war. I believe we would do well to take a stance on things we believe in and be active in promoting those beliefs but I believe even more that we would all do even better by promoting peace- I do not believe warring is the way to accomplish anything good. I sometimes ask, why is it that in today's world the idea of promoting peace get is dismissed as a "hippie thing"? Am I so naive as to think that achieving peace is a piece of cake? Something easy? Even something likely? No. Do I still believe striving for peace is a worthy, just and sensible way to think? Hell yes!

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    backseatLover12backseatLover12 Posts: 2,312
    JimmyV said:

    DreamyDan said:

    not sure if i want to throw myself into an anti-pro anything debate here {too hopelessly emotional and sensitive for that...} but i just need to say how shocked i was when i read the comments underneath the Facebook post from Rolling Stone Mag, where people were calling Ed all sorts of horrible, just because he dared to speak out against war?!! not even taking sides or anything, just saying 'War hurts, no matter which side the bombs are faling on...'

    i personally concur with all he said in his letter, especially the following:
    With all the global achievements in modern technology,
    enhanced communication and information devices, cracking the
    human genome, land rovers on Mars etc., do we really have to
    resign ourselves to the devastating reality that conflict will be
    resolved with bombs, murder and acts of barbarism?

    We are such a remarkable species. Capable of creating beauty.
    Capable of awe-inspiring advancements. We must be capable of
    resolving conflicts without bloodshed.


    beautiful words coming from a beautiful person...

    Couldn't agree more. Rise above any pro-this or anti-that stance. To do anything less shortchanges the point Eddie was trying to make. There is too much war, there are too many conflicts, and it needs to stop.

    Nasty comments on an internet board aren't just because people are against EV though. It's some kind of sick psychologically satisfying thing that makes people feel good to be angry online and put another person down, especially when it can be done anonymously, never having to take your words responsibly or being accountable for them.

    Much like this place.
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    backseatLover12backseatLover12 Posts: 2,312
    DreamyDan said:

    Byrnzie said:

    And you think it's gonna stop by doing nothing?

    i have no idea, but so far the Going In Guns Blazing Approach doesn't appear to have done a great deal of good... in the long run... guess i'm taking the 'hippie' approach of being pro-peace, in anything...

    with JimmyV on this one..
    Rise above any pro-this or anti-that stance. To do anything less shortchanges the point Eddie was trying to make. There is too much war, there are too many conflicts, and it needs to stop.
    Me, too.
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    backseatLover12backseatLover12 Posts: 2,312
    edited July 2014
    Byrnzie said:

    brianlux said:

    It really is so easy to get caught up in the politics here and as much as the whole mess is terrible and appalling, the message of this thread was originally about having hope for peace, ending war, spreading love.

    Let's get behind those thoughts here and take the political volleys back to AMT where it is better suited.

    Sorry, but your passive hippy approach solves nothing. It achieves nothing.

    Feel free to listen to John Lennon's Imagine if you wish, but people are being massacred. And passing flowers around and talking about love and peace is a fucking cop out.

    You like American Indians, right? You think the American Indian Movement just sat around smoking peace pipes and banging drums? You think Leonard Peltier sat around getting stoned and listening to John Lennon singing 'Imagine'?

    I feel that your angry, arrogant approach solves nothing and just keeps you angry.
    Post edited by backseatLover12 on
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