I don't believe his point was ever anti-Israeli in particular, simply antiwar in general.
So when he spoke of using U.S tax dollars to drop bombs on children, and told 'them' to get the fuck out of land that doesn't belong to 'them', who do you suppose he was referring to?
As I said, Israel was part of the inspiration. But is Israel the only country that receives military aid from the US? Of course not.
I was at the Hartford show which was the last time Ed went on a controversy causing political rant. That time his target was the NRA and the gun lobby...and he could not have been more specific. That didn't happen this time. If he had wanted to single out Israel, he would have.
A survey last month by the anti-defamation league found that 26% of those polled — representing approximately 1.1 billion adults worldwide — harbor deeply anti-Semitic views. If you are searching for these people, you need look no further than the streets outside of Israeli embassies across the world, where anti-Semites disguised as humanitarians from Sydney to Boston demand an end to the imagined Gaza genocide.
So if I protest against this "war" I'm an anti-Semite?
Dignin, you and I and byrnzie and eldarion and Gimmie and drowned out and whoever else have chosen to speak up, are no anti-Semites.
Debatable
How so ? please explain
Hamas hates jews, Much of the PLO hates jews, Hezbollah hates Jews, Iranian leadership hates Jews, ISIS hates jews, the Pro-Palestinian demonstrators in France that attacked synagogues and Jewish businesses clearly hate jews. I could go on. In fact everyone just listed not only want the destruction of Israel but they generally want the death of all jews.
Now I am not suggesting that Dignin, BadBrains, Byrnzie, Eldarion, Gimme and Drowned Out want the death of all jews but when it comes to supporting the palestinian resistance movement they tend to play on the same team with those that do. And there's the rub...until the peaceful palestinian supporters (which I assume they all are) counter the Jew haters in their movement there shall be no peace. Anti-semitism is unfortunately a slow growing cancer and those that truly want peace must either counter it or be consumed by it.
If anti-semitism is on the rise like a cancer in the world, maybe those who feel that way should maybe look at themselves and find out why the worlds view is growing in anger against them? Mite not like what you see, but it's a start. Just my opinion.
Ahhhh...yes...the jew must look at himself. Thank you badbrains for proving my point.
And what the fuck is wrong with that? Really? What, are they above everybody else? Now all of a sudden you can't tell someone to look at themselves without being labeled anti-Semite? Please. Run along, leave your non sense on the Israel FB page. Fucken unreal
I can handle criticism. Israel can handle criticism. We don't equate criticism with anti-semitism. However, when I mention palestinian protestors in France attacking jewish businesses and synagogues and your response is "maybe those who feel that way (that anti-semitism is on the rise) should maybe look at themselves" well I tend to look at that as a defence of violence and dare I say...anti-semitism.
Jewish immigrants never really did themselves any favours in a lot of the countries they moved into, usually becoming money lenders backed up by muscle to get 'what was owed'.
This is anti-semitism.
it is absolute fact that in the past Jewish people tended towards money lending (because it was a smart and effective way to earn a good living) and tended to become wealthy and powerful in their local area because of it
Generalization of an entire group of people. Check. Propagation of the Jews/Money narrative. Check. Anti-Semitism. Check.
A survey last month by the anti-defamation league found that 26% of those polled — representing approximately 1.1 billion adults worldwide — harbor deeply anti-Semitic views. If you are searching for these people, you need look no further than the streets outside of Israeli embassies across the world, where anti-Semites disguised as humanitarians from Sydney to Boston demand an end to the imagined Gaza genocide.
So if I protest against this "war" I'm an anti-Semite?
Dignin, you and I and byrnzie and eldarion and Gimmie and drowned out and whoever else have chosen to speak up, are no anti-Semites.
Debatable
How so ? please explain
Hamas hates jews, Much of the PLO hates jews, Hezbollah hates Jews, Iranian leadership hates Jews, ISIS hates jews, the Pro-Palestinian demonstrators in France that attacked synagogues and Jewish businesses clearly hate jews. I could go on. In fact everyone just listed not only want the destruction of Israel but they generally want the death of all jews.
Now I am not suggesting that Dignin, BadBrains, Byrnzie, Eldarion, Gimme and Drowned Out want the death of all jews but when it comes to supporting the palestinian resistance movement they tend to play on the same team with those that do. And there's the rub...until the peaceful palestinian supporters (which I assume they all are) counter the Jew haters in their movement there shall be no peace. Anti-semitism is unfortunately a slow growing cancer and those that truly want peace must either counter it or be consumed by it.
If anti-semitism is on the rise like a cancer in the world, maybe those who feel that way should maybe look at themselves and find out why the worlds view is growing in anger against them? Mite not like what you see, but it's a start. Just my opinion.
Ahhhh...yes...the jew must look at himself. Thank you badbrains for proving my point.
And what the fuck is wrong with that? Really? What, are they above everybody else? Now all of a sudden you can't tell someone to look at themselves without being labeled anti-Semite? Please. Run along, leave your non sense on the Israel FB page. Fucken unreal
I can handle criticism. Israel can handle criticism. We don't equate criticism with anti-semitism. However, when I mention palestinian protestors in France attacking jewish businesses and synagogues and your response is "maybe those who feel that way (that anti-semitism is on the rise) should maybe look at themselves" well I tend to look at that as a defence of violence and dare I say...anti-semitism.
Jewish immigrants never really did themselves any favours in a lot of the countries they moved into, usually becoming money lenders backed up by muscle to get 'what was owed'.
This is anti-semitism.
it is absolute fact that in the past Jewish people tended towards money lending (because it was a smart and effective way to earn a good living) and tended to become wealthy and powerful in their local area because of it
Generalization of an entire group of people. Check. Propagation of the Jews/Money narrative. Check. Anti-Semitism. Check.
Seriously, the antisemitism card in the wake of wholesale slaughter looks like nothing more than a deflection.
I do not believe it is ridiculous to ask for those that want peace to confront the jew haters that have co-opted their movement.
Except that's not what you said. You said Failing to confront Hamas makes someone a racist.
I said failing to confront Hamas makes someone anti-semitic. It also makes them anti-gay, anti-woman, anti-christian and anti-peace. Hamas is the enemy of progress. If you want peace they cannot lead you.
I said failing to confront Hamas makes someone anti-semitic. It also makes them anti-gay, anti-woman, anti-christian and anti-peace. Hamas is the enemy of progress. If you want peace they cannot lead you.
A survey last month by the anti-defamation league found that 26% of those polled — representing approximately 1.1 billion adults worldwide — harbor deeply anti-Semitic views. If you are searching for these people, you need look no further than the streets outside of Israeli embassies across the world, where anti-Semites disguised as humanitarians from Sydney to Boston demand an end to the imagined Gaza genocide.
So if I protest against this "war" I'm an anti-Semite?
Dignin, you and I and byrnzie and eldarion and Gimmie and drowned out and whoever else have chosen to speak up, are no anti-Semites.
Debatable
How so ? please explain
Hamas hates jews, Much of the PLO hates jews, Hezbollah hates Jews, Iranian leadership hates Jews, ISIS hates jews, the Pro-Palestinian demonstrators in France that attacked synagogues and Jewish businesses clearly hate jews. I could go on. In fact everyone just listed not only want the destruction of Israel but they generally want the death of all jews.
Now I am not suggesting that Dignin, BadBrains, Byrnzie, Eldarion, Gimme and Drowned Out want the death of all jews but when it comes to supporting the palestinian resistance movement they tend to play on the same team with those that do. And there's the rub...until the peaceful palestinian supporters (which I assume they all are) counter the Jew haters in their movement there shall be no peace. Anti-semitism is unfortunately a slow growing cancer and those that truly want peace must either counter it or be consumed by it.
If anti-semitism is on the rise like a cancer in the world, maybe those who feel that way should maybe look at themselves and find out why the worlds view is growing in anger against them? Mite not like what you see, but it's a start. Just my opinion.
Ahhhh...yes...the jew must look at himself. Thank you badbrains for proving my point.
And what the fuck is wrong with that? Really? What, are they above everybody else? Now all of a sudden you can't tell someone to look at themselves without being labeled anti-Semite? Please. Run along, leave your non sense on the Israel FB page. Fucken unreal
I can handle criticism. Israel can handle criticism. We don't equate criticism with anti-semitism. However, when I mention palestinian protestors in France attacking jewish businesses and synagogues and your response is "maybe those who feel that way (that anti-semitism is on the rise) should maybe look at themselves" well I tend to look at that as a defence of violence and dare I say...anti-semitism.
Jewish immigrants never really did themselves any favours in a lot of the countries they moved into, usually becoming money lenders backed up by muscle to get 'what was owed'.
This is anti-semitism.
it is absolute fact that in the past Jewish people tended towards money lending (because it was a smart and effective way to earn a good living) and tended to become wealthy and powerful in their local area because of it
Generalization of an entire group of people. Check. Propagation of the Jews/Money narrative. Check. Anti-Semitism. Check.
Seriously, the antisemitism card in the wake of wholesale slaughter looks like nothing more than a deflection.
Two separate arguments. I have not tried to deflect or dodge any criticism of Israeli military action. This is a thread on being anti-war. The question is how do we get there. I want Israeli military action to end. I want it to end now. To ask for the end of jew hatred should not be considered an outrageous request.
He didn't express rage at the gross injustice befalling the Palestinians. He expressed rage at the victims of war world wide (including Israel and Palestine). What you are doing is called projection.
He said that U.S tax dollars shouldn't be used to drop bombs on babies. He also told them to get the fuck out of land that doesn't belong to them.
I said failing to confront Hamas makes someone anti-semitic. It also makes them anti-gay, anti-woman, anti-christian and anti-peace. Hamas is the enemy of progress. If you want peace they cannot lead you.
You need to watch less T.V.
Do you have any idea at all how ridiculous you sound?
Two separate arguments. I have not tried to deflect or dodge any criticism of Israeli military action. This is a thread on being anti-war. The question is how do we get there. I want Israeli military action to end. I want it to end now. To ask for the end of jew hatred should not be considered an outrageous request.
Does it really surprise you that there's 'Jew hatred' in the World whilst the Israeli's are going about their latest round of mass murder?
A survey last month by the anti-defamation league found that 26% of those polled — representing approximately 1.1 billion adults worldwide — harbor deeply anti-Semitic views. If you are searching for these people, you need look no further than the streets outside of Israeli embassies across the world, where anti-Semites disguised as humanitarians from Sydney to Boston demand an end to the imagined Gaza genocide.
So if I protest against this "war" I'm an anti-Semite?
Dignin, you and I and byrnzie and eldarion and Gimmie and drowned out and whoever else have chosen to speak up, are no anti-Semites.
Debatable
How so ? please explain
Hamas hates jews, Much of the PLO hates jews, Hezbollah hates Jews, Iranian leadership hates Jews, ISIS hates jews, the Pro-Palestinian demonstrators in France that attacked synagogues and Jewish businesses clearly hate jews. I could go on. In fact everyone just listed not only want the destruction of Israel but they generally want the death of all jews.
Now I am not suggesting that Dignin, BadBrains, Byrnzie, Eldarion, Gimme and Drowned Out want the death of all jews but when it comes to supporting the palestinian resistance movement they tend to play on the same team with those that do. And there's the rub...until the peaceful palestinian supporters (which I assume they all are) counter the Jew haters in their movement there shall be no peace. Anti-semitism is unfortunately a slow growing cancer and those that truly want peace must either counter it or be consumed by it.
If anti-semitism is on the rise like a cancer in the world, maybe those who feel that way should maybe look at themselves and find out why the worlds view is growing in anger against them? Mite not like what you see, but it's a start. Just my opinion.
Ahhhh...yes...the jew must look at himself. Thank you badbrains for proving my point.
And what the fuck is wrong with that? Really? What, are they above everybody else? Now all of a sudden you can't tell someone to look at themselves without being labeled anti-Semite? Please. Run along, leave your non sense on the Israel FB page. Fucken unreal
I can handle criticism. Israel can handle criticism. We don't equate criticism with anti-semitism. However, when I mention palestinian protestors in France attacking jewish businesses and synagogues and your response is "maybe those who feel that way (that anti-semitism is on the rise) should maybe look at themselves" well I tend to look at that as a defence of violence and dare I say...anti-semitism.
Jewish immigrants never really did themselves any favours in a lot of the countries they moved into, usually becoming money lenders backed up by muscle to get 'what was owed'.
This is anti-semitism.
it is absolute fact that in the past Jewish people tended towards money lending (because it was a smart and effective way to earn a good living) and tended to become wealthy and powerful in their local area because of it
Generalization of an entire group of people. Check. Propagation of the Jews/Money narrative. Check. Anti-Semitism. Check.
Seriously, the antisemitism card in the wake of wholesale slaughter looks like nothing more than a deflection.
Two separate arguments. I have not tried to deflect or dodge any criticism of Israeli military action. This is a thread on being anti-war. The question is how do we get there. I want Israeli military action to end. I want it to end now. To ask for the end of jew hatred should not be considered an outrageous request.
If it is two separate arguments then by all means start a separate thread. An interesting discussion could be had.
I don't say that as some kind of junior mod or thread police. Its just that by inserting it into this discussion it does very much look like a deflection.
'...Suppose, for example, an Israeli rightist says that the settlements represent the pursuit of aspirations fundamental to the Jewish people, and to oppose the settlements is antisemitism. We might have to accept this claim; certainly it is difficult to refute. But we also cannot abandon the well-founded belief that the settlements strangle the Palestinian people and extinguish any hope of peace. So definitional acrobatics are all for nothing: we can only say, screw the fundamental aspirations of the Jewish people; the settlements are wrong. We must add that, since we are obliged to oppose the settlements, we are obliged to be antisemitic. Through definitional inflation, some form of ‘antisemitism’ has become morally obligatory.
It gets worse if anti-Zionism is labeled antisemitic, because the settlements, even if they do not represent fundamental aspirations of the Jewish people, are an entirely plausible extension of Zionism. To oppose them is indeed to be anti-Zionist, and therefore, by the stretched definition, antisemitic. The more antisemitism expands to include opposition to Israeli policies, the better it looks. Given the crimes to be laid at the feet of Zionism, there is another simple syllogism: anti-Zionism is a moral obligation, so, if anti-Zionism is antisemitism, antisemitism is a moral obligation.
...the real scandal today is not antisemitism but the importance it is given. Israel has committed war crimes. It has implicated Jews generally in these crimes, and Jews generally have hastened to implicate themselves. This has provoked hatred against Jews. Why not? Some of this hatred is racist, some isn’t, but who cares? Why should we pay any attention to this issue at all? Is the fact that Israel’s race war has provoked bitter anger of any importance besides the war itself? Is the remote possibility that somewhere, sometime, somehow, this hatred may in theory, possibly kill some Jews of any importance besides the brutal, actual, physical persecution of Palestinians, and the hundreds of thousands of votes for Arabs to be herded into transit camps? Oh, but I forgot. Drop everything. Someone spray-painted antisemitic slogans on a synagogue.'
He didn't express rage at the gross injustice befalling the Palestinians. He expressed rage at the victims of war world wide (including Israel and Palestine). What you are doing is called projection.
He said that U.S tax dollars shouldn't be used to drop bombs on babies. He also told them to get the fuck out of land that doesn't belong to them.
So who do you suppose he was referring to?
US tax dollars support the Hamas/PLO unity government and Israel. He doesn't want the US funding the missiles of either group.
When he talked about land he was referring to US into Iraq/Libya/Afganistan etc., Russia into Ukraine and YES Israel moving into Gaza. But just because Eddie is against war and doesn't want Israel to move into Gaza does not mean he was "Expressing rage at the gross injustice befalling Palestinians". Eddie is anti-war in total. He believes violence begets violence and that it is all so unnecessary. For you to assume anymore than that is complete projection.
US tax dollars support the Hamas/PLO unity government and Israel. He doesn't want the US funding the missiles of either group.
When he talked about land he was referring to US into Iraq/Libya/Afganistan etc., Russia into Ukraine and YES Israel moving into Gaza. But just because Eddie is against war and doesn't want Israel to move into Gaza does not mean he was "Expressing rage at the gross injustice befalling Palestinians". Eddie is anti-war in total. He believes violence begets violence and that it is all so unnecessary. For you to assume anymore than that is complete projection.
A survey last month by the anti-defamation league found that 26% of those polled — representing approximately 1.1 billion adults worldwide — harbor deeply anti-Semitic views. If you are searching for these people, you need look no further than the streets outside of Israeli embassies across the world, where anti-Semites disguised as humanitarians from Sydney to Boston demand an end to the imagined Gaza genocide.
So if I protest against this "war" I'm an anti-Semite?
Dignin, you and I and byrnzie and eldarion and Gimmie and drowned out and whoever else have chosen to speak up, are no anti-Semites.
Debatable
How so ? please explain
Hamas hates jews, Much of the PLO hates jews, Hezbollah hates Jews, Iranian leadership hates Jews, ISIS hates jews, the Pro-Palestinian demonstrators in France that attacked synagogues and Jewish businesses clearly hate jews. I could go on. In fact everyone just listed not only want the destruction of Israel but they generally want the death of all jews.
Now I am not suggesting that Dignin, BadBrains, Byrnzie, Eldarion, Gimme and Drowned Out want the death of all jews but when it comes to supporting the palestinian resistance movement they tend to play on the same team with those that do. And there's the rub...until the peaceful palestinian supporters (which I assume they all are) counter the Jew haters in their movement there shall be no peace. Anti-semitism is unfortunately a slow growing cancer and those that truly want peace must either counter it or be consumed by it.
If anti-semitism is on the rise like a cancer in the world, maybe those who feel that way should maybe look at themselves and find out why the worlds view is growing in anger against them? Mite not like what you see, but it's a start. Just my opinion.
Ahhhh...yes...the jew must look at himself. Thank you badbrains for proving my point.
And what the fuck is wrong with that? Really? What, are they above everybody else? Now all of a sudden you can't tell someone to look at themselves without being labeled anti-Semite? Please. Run along, leave your non sense on the Israel FB page. Fucken unreal
I can handle criticism. Israel can handle criticism. We don't equate criticism with anti-semitism. However, when I mention palestinian protestors in France attacking jewish businesses and synagogues and your response is "maybe those who feel that way (that anti-semitism is on the rise) should maybe look at themselves" well I tend to look at that as a defence of violence and dare I say...anti-semitism.
Jewish immigrants never really did themselves any favours in a lot of the countries they moved into, usually becoming money lenders backed up by muscle to get 'what was owed'.
This is anti-semitism.
it is absolute fact that in the past Jewish people tended towards money lending (because it was a smart and effective way to earn a good living) and tended to become wealthy and powerful in their local area because of it
Generalization of an entire group of people. Check. Propagation of the Jews/Money narrative. Check. Anti-Semitism. Check.
Seriously, the antisemitism card in the wake of wholesale slaughter looks like nothing more than a deflection.
Two separate arguments. I have not tried to deflect or dodge any criticism of Israeli military action. This is a thread on being anti-war. The question is how do we get there. I want Israeli military action to end. I want it to end now. To ask for the end of jew hatred should not be considered an outrageous request.
If it is two separate arguments then by all means start a separate thread. An interesting discussion could be had.
I don't say that as some kind of junior mod or thread police. Its just that by inserting it into this discussion it does very much look like a deflection.
This thread is about being anti-war. The end of Hamas jew hatred will be a requirement in bringing peace. That is no deflection. That is an evil we must all face.
Two separate arguments. I have not tried to deflect or dodge any criticism of Israeli military action. This is a thread on being anti-war. The question is how do we get there. I want Israeli military action to end. I want it to end now. To ask for the end of jew hatred should not be considered an outrageous request.
Does it really surprise you that there's 'Jew hatred' in the World whilst the Israeli's are going about their latest round of mass murder?
I'm never surprised by Jew hatred. I'm just always surprised that the people around me never want to confront it.
A survey last month by the anti-defamation league found that 26% of those polled — representing approximately 1.1 billion adults worldwide — harbor deeply anti-Semitic views. If you are searching for these people, you need look no further than the streets outside of Israeli embassies across the world, where anti-Semites disguised as humanitarians from Sydney to Boston demand an end to the imagined Gaza genocide.
So if I protest against this "war" I'm an anti-Semite?
Dignin, you and I and byrnzie and eldarion and Gimmie and drowned out and whoever else have chosen to speak up, are no anti-Semites.
Debatable
How so ? please explain
Hamas hates jews, Much of the PLO hates jews, Hezbollah hates Jews, Iranian leadership hates Jews, ISIS hates jews, the Pro-Palestinian demonstrators in France that attacked synagogues and Jewish businesses clearly hate jews. I could go on. In fact everyone just listed not only want the destruction of Israel but they generally want the death of all jews.
Now I am not suggesting that Dignin, BadBrains, Byrnzie, Eldarion, Gimme and Drowned Out want the death of all jews but when it comes to supporting the palestinian resistance movement they tend to play on the same team with those that do. And there's the rub...until the peaceful palestinian supporters (which I assume they all are) counter the Jew haters in their movement there shall be no peace. Anti-semitism is unfortunately a slow growing cancer and those that truly want peace must either counter it or be consumed by it.
If anti-semitism is on the rise like a cancer in the world, maybe those who feel that way should maybe look at themselves and find out why the worlds view is growing in anger against them? Mite not like what you see, but it's a start. Just my opinion.
Ahhhh...yes...the jew must look at himself. Thank you badbrains for proving my point.
And what the fuck is wrong with that? Really? What, are they above everybody else? Now all of a sudden you can't tell someone to look at themselves without being labeled anti-Semite? Please. Run along, leave your non sense on the Israel FB page. Fucken unreal
I can handle criticism. Israel can handle criticism. We don't equate criticism with anti-semitism. However, when I mention palestinian protestors in France attacking jewish businesses and synagogues and your response is "maybe those who feel that way (that anti-semitism is on the rise) should maybe look at themselves" well I tend to look at that as a defence of violence and dare I say...anti-semitism.
Jewish immigrants never really did themselves any favours in a lot of the countries they moved into, usually becoming money lenders backed up by muscle to get 'what was owed'.
This is anti-semitism.
it is absolute fact that in the past Jewish people tended towards money lending (because it was a smart and effective way to earn a good living) and tended to become wealthy and powerful in their local area because of it
Generalization of an entire group of people. Check. Propagation of the Jews/Money narrative. Check. Anti-Semitism. Check.
Seriously, the antisemitism card in the wake of wholesale slaughter looks like nothing more than a deflection.
Two separate arguments. I have not tried to deflect or dodge any criticism of Israeli military action. This is a thread on being anti-war. The question is how do we get there. I want Israeli military action to end. I want it to end now. To ask for the end of jew hatred should not be considered an outrageous request.
If it is two separate arguments then by all means start a separate thread. An interesting discussion could be had.
I don't say that as some kind of junior mod or thread police. Its just that by inserting it into this discussion it does very much look like a deflection.
This thread is about being anti-war. The end of Hamas jew hatred will be a requirement in bringing peace. That is no deflection. That is an evil we must all face.
But you aren't addressing Hamas in this thread. You are addressing other ten club members who all have valid points.
This has provoked hatred against Jews. Why not? Some of this hatred is racist, some isn’t, but who cares?
I care. You should care. You can care about Palestinians and be against hatred of Jews at the same time. These things are not mutually exclusive. If what you just quoted are your true feelings then you are not a partner for peace.
A survey last month by the anti-defamation league found that 26% of those polled — representing approximately 1.1 billion adults worldwide — harbor deeply anti-Semitic views. If you are searching for these people, you need look no further than the streets outside of Israeli embassies across the world, where anti-Semites disguised as humanitarians from Sydney to Boston demand an end to the imagined Gaza genocide.
So if I protest against this "war" I'm an anti-Semite?
Dignin, you and I and byrnzie and eldarion and Gimmie and drowned out and whoever else have chosen to speak up, are no anti-Semites.
Debatable
How so ? please explain
Hamas hates jews, Much of the PLO hates jews, Hezbollah hates Jews, Iranian leadership hates Jews, ISIS hates jews, the Pro-Palestinian demonstrators in France that attacked synagogues and Jewish businesses clearly hate jews. I could go on. In fact everyone just listed not only want the destruction of Israel but they generally want the death of all jews.
Now I am not suggesting that Dignin, BadBrains, Byrnzie, Eldarion, Gimme and Drowned Out want the death of all jews but when it comes to supporting the palestinian resistance movement they tend to play on the same team with those that do. And there's the rub...until the peaceful palestinian supporters (which I assume they all are) counter the Jew haters in their movement there shall be no peace. Anti-semitism is unfortunately a slow growing cancer and those that truly want peace must either counter it or be consumed by it.
If anti-semitism is on the rise like a cancer in the world, maybe those who feel that way should maybe look at themselves and find out why the worlds view is growing in anger against them? Mite not like what you see, but it's a start. Just my opinion.
Ahhhh...yes...the jew must look at himself. Thank you badbrains for proving my point.
And what the fuck is wrong with that? Really? What, are they above everybody else? Now all of a sudden you can't tell someone to look at themselves without being labeled anti-Semite? Please. Run along, leave your non sense on the Israel FB page. Fucken unreal
I can handle criticism. Israel can handle criticism. We don't equate criticism with anti-semitism. However, when I mention palestinian protestors in France attacking jewish businesses and synagogues and your response is "maybe those who feel that way (that anti-semitism is on the rise) should maybe look at themselves" well I tend to look at that as a defence of violence and dare I say...anti-semitism.
Jewish immigrants never really did themselves any favours in a lot of the countries they moved into, usually becoming money lenders backed up by muscle to get 'what was owed'.
This is anti-semitism.
it is absolute fact that in the past Jewish people tended towards money lending (because it was a smart and effective way to earn a good living) and tended to become wealthy and powerful in their local area because of it
Generalization of an entire group of people. Check. Propagation of the Jews/Money narrative. Check. Anti-Semitism. Check.
Seriously, the antisemitism card in the wake of wholesale slaughter looks like nothing more than a deflection.
Two separate arguments. I have not tried to deflect or dodge any criticism of Israeli military action. This is a thread on being anti-war. The question is how do we get there. I want Israeli military action to end. I want it to end now. To ask for the end of jew hatred should not be considered an outrageous request.
If it is two separate arguments then by all means start a separate thread. An interesting discussion could be had.
I don't say that as some kind of junior mod or thread police. Its just that by inserting it into this discussion it does very much look like a deflection.
This thread is about being anti-war. The end of Hamas jew hatred will be a requirement in bringing peace. That is no deflection. That is an evil we must all face.
But you aren't addressing Hamas in this thread. You are addressing other ten club members who all have valid points.
They do have valid points. Every single one of them. Asking me to leave Hamas out of the equation on an anti-war thread however seems to be a little one-sided. This is an anti-war thread isn't it? Last time I checked there seemed to be two sides fighting.
I don't believe his point was ever anti-Israeli in particular, simply antiwar in general.
So when he spoke of using U.S tax dollars to drop bombs on children, and told 'them' to get the fuck out of land that doesn't belong to 'them', who do you suppose he was referring to?
As I said, Israel was part of the inspiration. But is Israel the only country that receives military aid from the US? Of course not.
I was at the Hartford show which was the last time Ed went on a controversy causing political rant. That time his target was the NRA and the gun lobby...and he could not have been more specific. That didn't happen this time. If he had wanted to single out Israel, he would have.
Good Point but really we all know who He was talking about...But having said that He's statement can be Directed at any War and Conflict.
US tax dollars support the Hamas/PLO unity government and Israel. He doesn't want the US funding the missiles of either group.
When he talked about land he was referring to US into Iraq/Libya/Afganistan etc., Russia into Ukraine and YES Israel moving into Gaza. But just because Eddie is against war and doesn't want Israel to move into Gaza does not mean he was "Expressing rage at the gross injustice befalling Palestinians". Eddie is anti-war in total. He believes violence begets violence and that it is all so unnecessary. For you to assume anymore than that is complete projection.
Sorry, but this is bullshit, with a capital B.
No. You projected. The Jerusalem Post was wrong and so are you. Eddie's statement at the top of this thread says it all. Deal with it.
A survey last month by the anti-defamation league found that 26% of those polled — representing approximately 1.1 billion adults worldwide — harbor deeply anti-Semitic views. If you are searching for these people, you need look no further than the streets outside of Israeli embassies across the world, where anti-Semites disguised as humanitarians from Sydney to Boston demand an end to the imagined Gaza genocide.
So if I protest against this "war" I'm an anti-Semite?
Dignin, you and I and byrnzie and eldarion and Gimmie and drowned out and whoever else have chosen to speak up, are no anti-Semites.
Debatable
How so ? please explain
Hamas hates jews, Much of the PLO hates jews, Hezbollah hates Jews, Iranian leadership hates Jews, ISIS hates jews, the Pro-Palestinian demonstrators in France that attacked synagogues and Jewish businesses clearly hate jews. I could go on. In fact everyone just listed not only want the destruction of Israel but they generally want the death of all jews.
Now I am not suggesting that Dignin, BadBrains, Byrnzie, Eldarion, Gimme and Drowned Out want the death of all jews but when it comes to supporting the palestinian resistance movement they tend to play on the same team with those that do. And there's the rub...until the peaceful palestinian supporters (which I assume they all are) counter the Jew haters in their movement there shall be no peace. Anti-semitism is unfortunately a slow growing cancer and those that truly want peace must either counter it or be consumed by it.
If anti-semitism is on the rise like a cancer in the world, maybe those who feel that way should maybe look at themselves and find out why the worlds view is growing in anger against them? Mite not like what you see, but it's a start. Just my opinion.
Ahhhh...yes...the jew must look at himself. Thank you badbrains for proving my point.
And what the fuck is wrong with that? Really? What, are they above everybody else? Now all of a sudden you can't tell someone to look at themselves without being labeled anti-Semite? Please. Run along, leave your non sense on the Israel FB page. Fucken unreal
I can handle criticism. Israel can handle criticism. We don't equate criticism with anti-semitism. However, when I mention palestinian protestors in France attacking jewish businesses and synagogues and your response is "maybe those who feel that way (that anti-semitism is on the rise) should maybe look at themselves" well I tend to look at that as a defence of violence and dare I say...anti-semitism.
Jewish immigrants never really did themselves any favours in a lot of the countries they moved into, usually becoming money lenders backed up by muscle to get 'what was owed'.
This is anti-semitism.
it is absolute fact that in the past Jewish people tended towards money lending (because it was a smart and effective way to earn a good living) and tended to become wealthy and powerful in their local area because of it
Generalization of an entire group of people. Check. Propagation of the Jews/Money narrative. Check. Anti-Semitism. Check.
Of COURSE it's a generalization. But that generalization is how anti-semitism grew. That's my whole point. Dude, just talking about anti-semitism doesn't make a person an anti-Semite, lol. It's actually a really serious accusation for you to be throwing around. You should think a lot harder before you do that.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Two separate arguments. I have not tried to deflect or dodge any criticism of Israeli military action. This is a thread on being anti-war. The question is how do we get there. I want Israeli military action to end. I want it to end now. To ask for the end of jew hatred should not be considered an outrageous request.
Does it really surprise you that there's 'Jew hatred' in the World whilst the Israeli's are going about their latest round of mass murder?
I'm never surprised by Jew hatred. I'm just always surprised that the people around me never want to confront it.
I am completely shocked by it myself, every time I hear about those those sentiments being a reality for someone. I have never understood how or why anti-Semites can justify their hatred of Jews. Any reason I've ever heard for it makes absolutely nonsense to me whatsoever. Not talking about the Israeli government's actions here. I consider those two totally different issues (and there Andre a whole lot of Jewish people who don't live in Israel, obviously).
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
This is an anti-war thread isn't it? Last time I checked there seemed to be two sides fighting.
Actually, it's not a war, it's a massacre. A war is when two armies are fighting. That's not the case in Gaza. What we have in Gaza is one of the most powerful military's in the World attacking a largely defenseless civilian population.
If what you just quoted are your true feelings then you are not a partner for peace.
When have the Israeli's ever been interested in peace? Go on, see if you can answer that one.
When have they ever been interested in a just peace? Never.
And your trumpeting of the racism card is just a blatant deflection.
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n16/henry-siegman/the-great-middle-east-peace-process-scam '...all previous peace initiatives have got nowhere for a reason that neither Bush nor the EU has had the political courage to acknowledge. That reason is the consensus reached long ago by Israel’s decision-making elites that Israel will never allow the emergence of a Palestinian state which denies it effective military and economic control of the West Bank. To be sure, Israel would allow – indeed, it would insist on – the creation of a number of isolated enclaves that Palestinians could call a state, but only in order to prevent the creation of a binational state in which Palestinians would be the majority.
The Middle East peace process may well be the most spectacular deception in modern diplomatic history. Since the failed Camp David summit of 2000, and actually well before it, Israel’s interest in a peace process – other than for the purpose of obtaining Palestinian and international acceptance of the status quo – has been a fiction that has served primarily to provide cover for its systematic confiscation of Palestinian land and an occupation whose goal, according to the former IDF chief of staff Moshe Ya’alon, is ‘to sear deep into the consciousness of Palestinians that they are a defeated people’.
A survey last month by the anti-defamation league found that 26% of those polled — representing approximately 1.1 billion adults worldwide — harbor deeply anti-Semitic views. If you are searching for these people, you need look no further than the streets outside of Israeli embassies across the world, where anti-Semites disguised as humanitarians from Sydney to Boston demand an end to the imagined Gaza genocide.
So if I protest against this "war" I'm an anti-Semite?
Dignin, you and I and byrnzie and eldarion and Gimmie and drowned out and whoever else have chosen to speak up, are no anti-Semites.
Debatable
How so ? please explain
Hamas hates jews, Much of the PLO hates jews, Hezbollah hates Jews, Iranian leadership hates Jews, ISIS hates jews, the Pro-Palestinian demonstrators in France that attacked synagogues and Jewish businesses clearly hate jews. I could go on. In fact everyone just listed not only want the destruction of Israel but they generally want the death of all jews.
Now I am not suggesting that Dignin, BadBrains, Byrnzie, Eldarion, Gimme and Drowned Out want the death of all jews but when it comes to supporting the palestinian resistance movement they tend to play on the same team with those that do. And there's the rub...until the peaceful palestinian supporters (which I assume they all are) counter the Jew haters in their movement there shall be no peace. Anti-semitism is unfortunately a slow growing cancer and those that truly want peace must either counter it or be consumed by it.
If anti-semitism is on the rise like a cancer in the world, maybe those who feel that way should maybe look at themselves and find out why the worlds view is growing in anger against them? Mite not like what you see, but it's a start. Just my opinion.
Ahhhh...yes...the jew must look at himself. Thank you badbrains for proving my point.
And what the fuck is wrong with that? Really? What, are they above everybody else? Now all of a sudden you can't tell someone to look at themselves without being labeled anti-Semite? Please. Run along, leave your non sense on the Israel FB page. Fucken unreal
I can handle criticism. Israel can handle criticism. We don't equate criticism with anti-semitism. However, when I mention palestinian protestors in France attacking jewish businesses and synagogues and your response is "maybe those who feel that way (that anti-semitism is on the rise) should maybe look at themselves" well I tend to look at that as a defence of violence and dare I say...anti-semitism.
Jewish immigrants never really did themselves any favours in a lot of the countries they moved into, usually becoming money lenders backed up by muscle to get 'what was owed'.
This is anti-semitism.
it is absolute fact that in the past Jewish people tended towards money lending (because it was a smart and effective way to earn a good living) and tended to become wealthy and powerful in their local area because of it
Generalization of an entire group of people. Check. Propagation of the Jews/Money narrative. Check. Anti-Semitism. Check.
Of COURSE it's a generalization. But that generalization is how anti-semitism grew. That's my whole point. Dude, just talking about anti-semitism doesn't make a person an anti-Semite, lol. It's actually a really serious accusation for you to be throwing around. You should think a lot harder before you do that.
Fair enough and my apologies. To clarify I am not calling you an anti-semite. The guy before you said "Hey...Jewish people never did themselves any favours through all their money lending." I called that anti-semitism as it propagates a narrative on to an entire group of people and insinuates that any backlash jews suffer is of their own making.
Nine Palestinians killed in protests across West Bank 07/25/2014
As Palestinians in Gaza buried the dozens killed during the eighteenth consecutive day of Israel’s relentless military assault by air, land and sea, Israeli fire killed at least seven during protests in the occupied West Bank.
At least ten Palestinians have been killed by the Israeli army and by Israeli civilians in the West Bank since the beginning of the Gaza assault on 7 July as Palestinians in the West Bank and present-day Israel rise up in solidarity with Gaza, where at least 843 Palestinians have been killed since the beginning of the onslaught.
Approximately thirty Palestinians have been killed by Israeli fire in the West Bank so far this year, about three times as many killed during the same period last year, according to data from the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs.
Teenager Mohammad al-Araj was buried in Qalandiya refugee camp near the West Bank city of Ramallah today after being shot with live fire by the Israeli military during a march from al-Amari camp to the Qalandiya military checkpoint which severs Ramallah from Jerusalem.
The youth was slain on his seventeenth birthday, according to Al-Jazeera. Qalandiya refugee camp residents told Al-Jazeera that “the boy was a well-mannered teenager, who had been hoping to study hotel and restaurant management.”
...Sixteen-year-old Nasri Mahmoud Taqataqa was shot dead by Israeli forces during a protest in Beit Fajjar village near Bethlehem and Bassem Safi Sadeq Abu Rob, of Qabatiya village (age unreported at time of publication) was shot during confrontations with Israeli soldiers at Jalameh checkpoint north of the city of Jenin, the Ma’an News Agency reported.
A survey last month by the anti-defamation league found that 26% of those polled — representing approximately 1.1 billion adults worldwide — harbor deeply anti-Semitic views. If you are searching for these people, you need look no further than the streets outside of Israeli embassies across the world, where anti-Semites disguised as humanitarians from Sydney to Boston demand an end to the imagined Gaza genocide.
So if I protest against this "war" I'm an anti-Semite?
Dignin, you and I and byrnzie and eldarion and Gimmie and drowned out and whoever else have chosen to speak up, are no anti-Semites.
Debatable
How so ? please explain
Hamas hates jews, Much of the PLO hates jews, Hezbollah hates Jews, Iranian leadership hates Jews, ISIS hates jews, the Pro-Palestinian demonstrators in France that attacked synagogues and Jewish businesses clearly hate jews. I could go on. In fact everyone just listed not only want the destruction of Israel but they generally want the death of all jews.
Now I am not suggesting that Dignin, BadBrains, Byrnzie, Eldarion, Gimme and Drowned Out want the death of all jews but when it comes to supporting the palestinian resistance movement they tend to play on the same team with those that do. And there's the rub...until the peaceful palestinian supporters (which I assume they all are) counter the Jew haters in their movement there shall be no peace. Anti-semitism is unfortunately a slow growing cancer and those that truly want peace must either counter it or be consumed by it.
If anti-semitism is on the rise like a cancer in the world, maybe those who feel that way should maybe look at themselves and find out why the worlds view is growing in anger against them? Mite not like what you see, but it's a start. Just my opinion.
Ahhhh...yes...the jew must look at himself. Thank you badbrains for proving my point.
And what the fuck is wrong with that? Really? What, are they above everybody else? Now all of a sudden you can't tell someone to look at themselves without being labeled anti-Semite? Please. Run along, leave your non sense on the Israel FB page. Fucken unreal
I can handle criticism. Israel can handle criticism. We don't equate criticism with anti-semitism. However, when I mention palestinian protestors in France attacking jewish businesses and synagogues and your response is "maybe those who feel that way (that anti-semitism is on the rise) should maybe look at themselves" well I tend to look at that as a defence of violence and dare I say...anti-semitism.
Jewish immigrants never really did themselves any favours in a lot of the countries they moved into, usually becoming money lenders backed up by muscle to get 'what was owed'.
This is anti-semitism.
it is absolute fact that in the past Jewish people tended towards money lending (because it was a smart and effective way to earn a good living) and tended to become wealthy and powerful in their local area because of it
Generalization of an entire group of people. Check. Propagation of the Jews/Money narrative. Check. Anti-Semitism. Check.
Of COURSE it's a generalization. But that generalization is how anti-semitism grew. That's my whole point. Dude, just talking about anti-semitism doesn't make a person an anti-Semite, lol. It's actually a really serious accusation for you to be throwing around. You should think a lot harder before you do that.
Fair enough and my apologies. To clarify I am not calling you an anti-semite. The guy before you said "Hey...Jewish people never did themselves any favours through all their money lending." I called that anti-semitism as it propagates a narrative on to an entire group of people and insinuates that any backlash jews suffer is of their own making.
Thank you, and I'm sorry if I misunderstood.... and yes, I agree that the "never did themselves any favors" thing is a questionable thing to say.... as though anti-semitism is their fault and anti-Semites are justified. Not cool.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
Apparently there's racism, and then there's anti-Semitism. And we're all supposed to just nod in agreement.
I was at the Hartford show which was the last time Ed went on a controversy causing political rant. That time his target was the NRA and the gun lobby...and he could not have been more specific. That didn't happen this time. If he had wanted to single out Israel, he would have.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
So who do you suppose he was referring to?
I don't say that as some kind of junior mod or thread police. Its just that by inserting it into this discussion it does very much look like a deflection.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
What Is Antisemitism?
by Michael Neumann
'...Suppose, for example, an Israeli rightist says that the settlements represent the pursuit of aspirations fundamental to the Jewish people, and to oppose the settlements is antisemitism. We might have to accept this claim; certainly it is difficult to refute. But we also cannot abandon the well-founded belief that the settlements strangle the Palestinian people and extinguish any hope of peace. So definitional acrobatics are all for nothing: we can only say, screw the fundamental aspirations of the Jewish people; the settlements are wrong. We must add that, since we are obliged to oppose the settlements, we are obliged to be antisemitic. Through definitional inflation, some form of ‘antisemitism’ has become morally obligatory.
It gets worse if anti-Zionism is labeled antisemitic, because the settlements, even if they do not represent fundamental aspirations of the Jewish people, are an entirely plausible extension of Zionism. To oppose them is indeed to be anti-Zionist, and therefore, by the stretched definition, antisemitic. The more antisemitism expands to include opposition to Israeli policies, the better it looks. Given the crimes to be laid at the feet of Zionism, there is another simple syllogism: anti-Zionism is a moral obligation, so, if anti-Zionism is antisemitism, antisemitism is a moral obligation.
...the real scandal today is not antisemitism but the importance it is given. Israel has committed war crimes. It has implicated Jews generally in these crimes, and Jews generally have hastened to implicate themselves. This has provoked hatred against Jews. Why not? Some of this hatred is racist, some isn’t, but who cares? Why should we pay any attention to this issue at all? Is the fact that Israel’s race war has provoked bitter anger of any importance besides the war itself? Is the remote possibility that somewhere, sometime, somehow, this hatred may in theory, possibly kill some Jews of any importance besides the brutal, actual, physical persecution of Palestinians, and the hundreds of thousands of votes for Arabs to be herded into transit camps? Oh, but I forgot. Drop everything. Someone spray-painted antisemitic slogans on a synagogue.'
When he talked about land he was referring to US into Iraq/Libya/Afganistan etc., Russia into Ukraine and YES Israel moving into Gaza. But just because Eddie is against war and doesn't want Israel to move into Gaza does not mean he was "Expressing rage at the gross injustice befalling Palestinians". Eddie is anti-war in total. He believes violence begets violence and that it is all so unnecessary. For you to assume anymore than that is complete projection.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
When have they ever been interested in a just peace? Never.
And your trumpeting of the racism card is just a blatant deflection.
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n16/henry-siegman/the-great-middle-east-peace-process-scam
'...all previous peace initiatives have got nowhere for a reason that neither Bush nor the EU has had the political courage to acknowledge. That reason is the consensus reached long ago by Israel’s decision-making elites that Israel will never allow the emergence of a Palestinian state which denies it effective military and economic control of the West Bank. To be sure, Israel would allow – indeed, it would insist on – the creation of a number of isolated enclaves that Palestinians could call a state, but only in order to prevent the creation of a binational state in which Palestinians would be the majority.
The Middle East peace process may well be the most spectacular deception in modern diplomatic history. Since the failed Camp David summit of 2000, and actually well before it, Israel’s interest in a peace process – other than for the purpose of obtaining Palestinian and international acceptance of the status quo – has been a fiction that has served primarily to provide cover for its systematic confiscation of Palestinian land and an occupation whose goal, according to the former IDF chief of staff Moshe Ya’alon, is ‘to sear deep into the consciousness of Palestinians that they are a defeated people’.
http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/maureen-clare-murphy/nine-palestinians-killed-protests-across-west-bank
Nine Palestinians killed in protests across West Bank
07/25/2014
As Palestinians in Gaza buried the dozens killed during the eighteenth consecutive day of Israel’s relentless military assault by air, land and sea, Israeli fire killed at least seven during protests in the occupied West Bank.
At least ten Palestinians have been killed by the Israeli army and by Israeli civilians in the West Bank since the beginning of the Gaza assault on 7 July as Palestinians in the West Bank and present-day Israel rise up in solidarity with Gaza, where at least 843 Palestinians have been killed since the beginning of the onslaught.
Approximately thirty Palestinians have been killed by Israeli fire in the West Bank so far this year, about three times as many killed during the same period last year, according to data from the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs.
Teenager Mohammad al-Araj was buried in Qalandiya refugee camp near the West Bank city of Ramallah today after being shot with live fire by the Israeli military during a march from al-Amari camp to the Qalandiya military checkpoint which severs Ramallah from Jerusalem.
The youth was slain on his seventeenth birthday, according to Al-Jazeera. Qalandiya refugee camp residents told Al-Jazeera that “the boy was a well-mannered teenager, who had been hoping to study hotel and restaurant management.”
...Sixteen-year-old Nasri Mahmoud Taqataqa was shot dead by Israeli forces during a protest in Beit Fajjar village near Bethlehem and Bassem Safi Sadeq Abu Rob, of Qabatiya village (age unreported at time of publication) was shot during confrontations with Israeli soldiers at Jalameh checkpoint north of the city of Jenin, the Ma’an News Agency reported.