Iraq

njnancy

Byrnzie said:

njnancy said:

I began a response several times until I realized that there was nothing I could say that would matter. Wow.

Why? You don't think there are Americans more worthy of admiration than it's politicians?

Why put the heads of politicians on Mount Rushmore? (By the way, that monument was created by a racist and a member of the Ku Klux Klan, and was built on land stolen from the Lakota Sioux).

Many people are deluded in thinking that change comes from above - top-down. It doesn't. It almost always come from below. You think Lincoln was solely responsible for ending slavery? The abolitionist movement deserves more credit. Put the head of Frederick Douglas up on Mount Rushmore instead - or better still, pick a different place - one that isn't Indian sacred land.

You want the head of a great American carved into a rock face? How about carving the head of Walt Whitman instead?

I can believe without a doubt that the land was stolen from Native Americans, sadly. Change always comes from the people; important change. Equal rights for many groups wouldn't have had a mere foothold if it weren't for the activists who protested, marched, died for long periods of time. There has been talk about putting Reagan on Mount Rushmore - @-) . Not gonna happen.
I was trying to think of what great American I would choose; I can't make those decisions easily, I'll think on it.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Uh, Byrnzie, it was just an interesting article based on discussion points that some people made about who the worst presidents are. It was not putting them on a pedestal. Generalizing an entire group like that (calling all politicians scumbags) is kinda like being racist.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Byrnzie said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

You sound shrill. What's up? Should we degenerate into familial clans like Iraq? What's the ideal society to you?

Peace

The ideal society? No idea. But maybe it'd be one that wasn't driven primarily by money and war, and whose leaders weren't driven solely by greed and lies.

Maybe we can compare it to a country like, say, Finland?

Though personally, my idea of an 'ideal society' would probably look more like a tribal - or semi-tribal - society that still lives in some sort of respectful relationship with it's environment. I recently watched a documentary called 'South Pacific' and they showed a society of people who live on an island called Anuta - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anuta
There are no politicians on Anuta.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/tribe/tribes/anuta/
'Concern for others is the backbone of Anutan philosophy. 'Aropa' is a concept for giving and sharing, roughly translated as compassion, love and affection. Aropa informs the way Anutans treat one another and it is demonstrated through the giving and sharing of material goods such as food. For example, the land on Anuta is shared among the family units so that each family can cultivate enough food to feed themselves and those around them.

...The young people of Anuta do not share all of the chiefs' opinions, but Anuta is one of the most isolated communities on earth so change happens slowly. At the moment the island is stable and balanced both socially and environmentally. The resources are sufficient to satisfy the population, and the attitude that the Anutans share for one another, aropa, promotes co-operation and sustainability.

...Due to its remote geographical location, Anuta's environment, traditions and culture have been well preserved. The Anutans value their traditional practices such as travelling in their hand-carved outriggers. The island provides an abundance of crops, fish, and a high quality water source from a natural spring; Anuta has successfully supported the dense population for centuries and will hopefully continue to do so.'


Or maybe the Sng'oi of Malaysia - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0892818662/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The current social structure of the Anuta people began when the chief, his two brothers, and a brother in law, murdered the rest of the male population. Yeah, sounds so peaceful and ideal. Kinda reminds you of something else, doesn't it?

callen

Yeah our political system sucks sometimes but looking back at history of human civilization not that bad. Right now I can get in my car drive to local buffet and stuff my gullet for 8 bucks. There will be families living close to poverty level sitting at table next to me having a great time. 80 different pre made dishes to eat till stuffed Then I can go to store and get some decent cold beer and drink it on my back porch listening to pearl jam.

Think it's very easy to put down our political system and how it's so fucking corrupt but all in all this is a great country and run decently. The system mostly works.

njnancy

The United States,when compared to the rest of the world, is an infant. We are close to 240 years old, that would take up a page or two if reading about the political, economic, cultural history of almost any other country. We are still experiencing growing pains and it will continue for a long time. We are supposed to be a democracy; but we really aren't (or else the popular vote would elect the President instead of the electoral....that would have avoided this whole Iraq mess & we'd be much further along on climate change, but I digress).
There are bits and pieces I would 'take' from other countries, but I am quite happy to live in this social experiment that is my home. Just think of all the amendments that have been created, it is part of the continuing attempt to create a 'more perfect union'. Currently, Washington DC is a mess. The Republican party obstructs and tries to make the Tea Party happy (which inevitably has made the presidential candidate unelectable in the general election, but has interfered with jobs bills, infrastructure spending, immigration reform and caused ridiculous obsession with women's reproductive systems (i can never understand how the party of 'keep the government out my business' can reconcile this mantra with their interest in my uterus & i don't see anyone refusing Medicare or SSI). Soap Box put away.. We have expanded civil rights, started a national healthcare system, began to undo the draconian laws that mandated sentences for drug possession, ended DADT & DOMA, passed laws to begin to give women the ability to make the same wage as a man in the same job, to name just a few of new rights. These will have to be worked on and changed and fine tuned - esp. TACA, but this is a fight that has been attempted for decades (i could look up when it first was attempted, but i need to get in the shower and go out).
My point, we're a work in progress and I'm not giving up my American citizenship any time in the foreseeable future.

Byrnzie

Hugh Freaking Dillon said:

The current social structure of the Anuta people began when the chief, his two brothers, and a brother in law, murdered the rest of the male population. Yeah, sounds so peaceful and ideal. Kinda reminds you of something else, doesn't it?

Yeah, it reminds me of the founding of the U.S, except Anuta has a population of 300. Not sure what the population was 'ten generations ago' (at least 200 years ago).

Last-12-Exit

Since its been derailed, that precious land stolen from the Indians isn't so precious. It's a big rock. I know, if it was mine I wouldn't want it stolen. But come on......

badbrains

https://twitter.com/thenation/status/481994009821192193

A little comic strip by tom tomorrow.

Godfather.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/06/30/sunni-militants-declare-islamic-state-in-iraq-and-syria/

it never ends.....

Godfather.

Byrnzie

Godfather. said:

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/06/30/sunni-militants-declare-islamic-state-in-iraq-and-syria/

it never ends.....

Godfather.

Says an American.

On the subject of trying to take over the World, here's a book you'll find interesting: http://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Economic-Hit-John-Perkins/dp/0452287081/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1404131447&sr=8-1&keywords=confessions+of+an+economic+hitman

Jason P

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lIaStcriBA8

Godfather.

viva la France: http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/01/world/europe/france-burqa-ban/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

CNN) -- The European Court of Human Rights on Tuesday rejected a claim by a young Muslim woman that France's ban on the wearing of burqas and niqabs in public violates her rights.

The French law banning the burqa, a full-body covering that includes a mesh over the face, and the niqab, a full-face veil with an opening for the eyes, went into effect in April 2011.

It has pitted religious freedom advocates against those who say the Islamic veil is demeaning to women and inconsistent with France's rigorously enforced secularism.

A 24-year-old French woman brought the case to Europe's top rights court in Strasbourg because she says the ban infringes on her ability to live according to her religious faith, culture and personal convictions.

But the court said Tuesday that it found that the French law doesn't breach the European Convention on Human Rights.



Godfather.

gimmesometruth27

^^ be that as it may, with all due respect, there is no high court or supreme court that sides with a person's religious freedom, only that of corporations.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

So you are ok with a government telling you what is ok or not ok to wear in public?? Or just as long as it is against "them" and not "us", right?

gimmesometruth27

Hugh Freaking Dillon said:

So you are ok with a government telling you what is ok or not ok to wear in public?? Or just as long as it is against "them" and not "us", right?

i am against any government dictating how one CAN NOT dress. especially in the case of something as personal as a religion.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

gimmesometruth27 said:

Hugh Freaking Dillon said:

So you are ok with a government telling you what is ok or not ok to wear in public?? Or just as long as it is against "them" and not "us", right?

i am against any government dictating how one CAN NOT dress. especially in the case of something as personal as a religion.

While I can appreciate the underlying reasoning for dissallowing it (protecting those against forceable oppression), making it law is not the way to go.

Godfather.

well try walking into a bank with a ski mask on....just tell em it your right to do so. LOL!!

Godfather.

Byrnzie

Hugh Freaking Dillon said:

While I can appreciate the underlying reasoning for dissallowing it (protecting those against forceable oppression), making it law is not the way to go.

What makes you think it's a form of forced oppression? Provide me one example of a Muslim claiming that they were forced into wearing the burqa.

Meanwhile, on the subject of oppression and indoctrination, last I heard, there are a lot of fundamentalist religious schools operating in the U.S that subject their 'followers' to some pretty extreme shit. So where's the outrage about that?

Drowned Out

Godfather. said:

viva la France: http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/01/world/europe/france-burqa-ban/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

CNN) -- The European Court of Human Rights on Tuesday rejected a claim by a young Muslim woman that France's ban on the wearing of burqas and niqabs in public violates her rights.

The French law banning the burqa, a full-body covering that includes a mesh over the face, and the niqab, a full-face veil with an opening for the eyes, went into effect in April 2011.

It has pitted religious freedom advocates against those who say the Islamic veil is demeaning to women and inconsistent with France's rigorously enforced secularism.

A 24-year-old French woman brought the case to Europe's top rights court in Strasbourg because she says the ban infringes on her ability to live according to her religious faith, culture and personal convictions.

But the court said Tuesday that it found that the French law doesn't breach the European Convention on Human Rights.



Godfather.

Did this thread just seem like a good place for some good ol' fashioned muslim bashin? Just a little off topic.
Since you ignored the recommendation - I'll second it. I'd be interested to hear your take on Confessions of an Economic Hitman. Check it out - it's a quick, easy, eye-opening read.

badbrains

Drowned Out said:

Godfather. said:

viva la France: http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/01/world/europe/france-burqa-ban/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

CNN) -- The European Court of Human Rights on Tuesday rejected a claim by a young Muslim woman that France's ban on the wearing of burqas and niqabs in public violates her rights.

The French law banning the burqa, a full-body covering that includes a mesh over the face, and the niqab, a full-face veil with an opening for the eyes, went into effect in April 2011.

It has pitted religious freedom advocates against those who say the Islamic veil is demeaning to women and inconsistent with France's rigorously enforced secularism.

A 24-year-old French woman brought the case to Europe's top rights court in Strasbourg because she says the ban infringes on her ability to live according to her religious faith, culture and personal convictions.

But the court said Tuesday that it found that the French law doesn't breach the European Convention on Human Rights.



Godfather.

Did this thread just seem like a good place for some good ol' fashioned muslim bashin? Just a little off topic.
Since you ignored the recommendation - I'll second it. I'd be interested to hear your take on Confessions of an Economic Hitman. Check it out - it's a quick, easy, eye-opening read.

Yup, anything for GF to bash Muslims. He's the first one to post ANYTHING BAD by Muslims yet he's shockingly quiet in other threads where there is bad things happening to muslims. He's NEVER in any threads where unjust things are happening to Muslims (Israel threads) . He sits at home drooling for articles that paint us Muslims as bad devil worshippers. And every time I see one of his hatred filled posts, I always wonder to myself, what would Jesus do........ ^:)^