Iraq

gimmesometruth27

i am surprised nobody has posted anything about this. the country is in serious trouble right now. so many of the cities that the "coalition" fought so hard to secure have been taken back by extremist groups and militants.

i thought for sure people would be on here bashing obama about it, but i am really surprised nobody here is saying anything about it.

we said it back in 2003. invading is a terrible idea. and as soon as we leave, everything those brave men and women fought so hard for will be lost.

so yeah, we really screwed the pooch on this one. thank you neocons and all of your amazing wisdom. history will judge you even more harshly than i do.

unsung

Saddam wasn't so bad after all.

gimmesometruth27

unsung said:

Saddam wasn't so bad after all.

exactly.

tikrit, his hometown, fell a few days ago.

at least with saddam, sometimes you are better off with the devil that you know versus the devil that you don't.

i just hope we learn a lesson from this, but knowing our government, we won't.

brianlux

What do you see happening with all this, gimme, anybody? Will we try to be the heroes that save the day? Will we bomb someone... and if so who? Will there be civil war? How does oil tie in? Another very complex situation. What next?

mattsl1983

gimmesometruth27 said:

unsung said:

Saddam wasn't so bad after all.

exactly.

tikrit, his hometown, fell a few days ago.

at least with saddam, sometimes you are better off with the devil that you know versus the devil that you don't.

i just hope we learn a lesson from this, but knowing our government, we won't.

I think that is such a backseat driver looking in the rear view mirror mentality. You are okay with a dictator that carried out multiple mass murders, but it's okay because we can deal with him as opposed to dealing with what might happen? The facts are we (United States) removed him of power. We left two years ago. We've allowed this to happen. The easy thing is let's look in hindsight and blame The previous administration. Hindsight is always 20/20, the question now is will we just sit back and let Iraq fall into whatever disparity it may, or are we going to do something about it? This is now on the current administrations hands. Let's get past the blame game and start dealing with what's going on. I am also curious Gimme, do you support taking no action, or do you support taking action?

Byrnzie

gimmesometruth27 said:

everything those brave men and women fought so hard for will be lost.

Can you remind me what is was they fought for?

Godfather.

as horrible as this may sound........yes we tried to fix it last time and when we did we (the U.S) was and still is hated by the general populis over there,they burn our flags and terrorist still hide there for a safe haven, and obama's list of screw up's just keeps growing (I didn't vote for him) and I think the U.S people are so tired of having to read ,hear and see the acts of terrorism commited by people from the middle east that they really just don't care,this kind of thing has been going on for thousands of years with no end in sight and no matter how many times our military goes in to help one side or the other we always end up being the bad guy so mabe this is the preverbial "fuck it who cares let em kill each other"
I realize some or many of the people over there don't war's and death on their streets but they seem to be o.k with bashing the U.S in the name of islam or burning our flag and defending the terrorist that attack people and places of countries other than their own..... please forgive me and my rant for the morning

Godfather.

Byrnzie

mattsl1983 said:

You are okay with a dictator that carried out multiple mass murders

The U.S government has a long history of being perfectly o.k with supporting dictators that carried out mass murders, such as Suharto, Pinochet http://www.workers.org/articles/2013/09/09/pinochet-suharto-u-s-supported-dictators-killed-people/ the Guatemalan dictator Efraín Ríos Montt http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2013/05/19/what-guilt-does-the-us-bear-in-guatemala/guatemalan-slaughter-was-part-of-reagans-hard-line who was responsible for genocide, and Sadaam Hussein during his worst crimes http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1223-11.htm to name but a few.

The U.S supported Sadaam when he was busy murdering Iranians and Kurds, and sold him the chemical weapons that he allegedly used upon civilians. And the U.S government continued supporting him up until 1991.

So why did you single out Sadaam? Because your government and media told you to?

Godfather.

this is an e-mail I happened to get this morning, when the shit hits the fan they want the help of the American people to help no matter what faith they are.

Godfather.

from: united for iraq in Berkly Ca.


My Son Shahram Ahmadi has been sentenced to death. His case will be reviewed by the Supreme Court in the upcoming weeks. He is 26 years old and has spent the last 6 years of his life in prison. I couldn’t stop the execution of his younger brother Bahram and had a heart attack when I heard the news. The Iranian government refuses to hand over Bahram’s body. Now I need your help to stop Shahram’s execution.
Bahram, on the right in the picture above, has been executed and Shahram, on the left, can be saved.
We are Sunni and Kurd. My son Shahram like many other Sunni youths has been critical of how badly the Iranian government treats the Sunni minority. Security police arrested him in April 2009 on his way home from mosque in our town, Sanandaj. They shot, beat, and kicked my son in the face, breaking his nose and head. They took him to the Intelligence Bureau of Sanandaj and subjected him to severe torture including electric shocks and forced him to falsely confess to armed resistance. It took the authorities 10 months before they allowed us to see him.
My son's trial was unfair. The authorities kept him in detention for 4 years before charging him. The first time they allowed him to talk to his attorney was on the day of his trial. His trial lasted less than 10 minutes. Judge Mohammad Moghiseh used his coerced confession, the only evidence against him, to declare him a mohareb (enemy of God). I have no doubt that my son would have been found innocent if he had received a fair trial.
Your support could save my son. In the past international pressure has been instrumental in protecting individuals who had been unfairly prosecuted in Iran. A recent example is Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani who in 2006 was sentenced to stoning. Due to international pressure her sentence was later reduced to 10 years in prison and in March of this year, the Iranian judiciary announced that she has been released.
Shahram is not the only one at risk. Dozens of other Kurds have been unfairly sentenced to death. Most of their cases are waiting review by the Supreme Court. We do not have much time. Please help me save my son and the other Kurds' lives by asking Iranian officials to halt their executions and grant them fair trials.

Godfather.

btw the e-mail was sent by "change.org" guess who that is......


Godfather.

rgambs

mattsl1983
you ask many snarky questions on this board and i am seeing that you avoid answering the snarky questions that are asked of you so why dont you tell us, without hindsight or blaming EITHER administration what solution you would offer? How many lives is it worth to you to be the Middle East Police...if its just a humanitarian urge, without media/political influence, dont you think we could save more lives for less money if we went to the Sudan with our aid?

Byrnzie

Godfather. said:

this is an e-mail I happened to get this morning, when the shit hits the fan they want the help of the American people to help no matter what faith they are.

Yeah, what a fucking cheek these people have!

By the way, they're not asking for help solely from the American people. This website has an international base:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Change.org
Change.org is a website operated by Change.org, Inc., an American certified B Corporation[1] incorporated in Delaware that provides a free petition tool for 65 million users[2] and hosts sponsored campaigns for organizations.

Nonprofits and political campaigns, including Amnesty International and the Humane Society, pay the site to host their petitions.[3] Change.org's stated mission is to "empower people everywhere to create the change they want to see."[4] Popular topics of Change.org petitions are economic and criminal justice, human rights, education, the environment, animals, health, and sustainable food.

rgambs

what is the connection to iraq? I must be missing something

know1

gimmesometruth27 said:

i am surprised nobody has posted anything about this. the country is in serious trouble right now. so many of the cities that the "coalition" fought so hard to secure have been taken back by extremist groups and militants.

i thought for sure people would be on here bashing obama about it, but i am really surprised nobody here is saying anything about it.

we said it back in 2003. invading is a terrible idea. and as soon as we leave, everything those brave men and women fought so hard for will be lost.

so yeah, we really screwed the pooch on this one. thank you neocons and all of your amazing wisdom. history will judge you even more harshly than i do.

We only bash Republican Presidents on issues of the military.

Byrnzie

rgambs said:

what is the connection to iraq? I must be missing something

They have the same coloured skin.

Gern Blansten

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDw-zFFhFgc

yep....brown

rgambs

carlins ghost for president, 2016!!

Godfather.

rgambs said:

mattsl1983
you ask many snarky questions on this board and i am seeing that you avoid answering the snarky questions that are asked of you so why dont you tell us, without hindsight or blaming EITHER administration what solution you would offer? How many lives is it worth to you to be the Middle East Police...if its just a humanitarian urge, without media/political influence, dont you think we could save more lives for less money if we went to the Sudan with our aid?

I wish we were not involved at all, one life is too many, we should not act until acted upon. no aid to any middle eastern country.

Godfather.

rgambs

Godfather. said:

rgambs said:

mattsl1983
you ask many snarky questions on this board and i am seeing that you avoid answering the snarky questions that are asked of you so why dont you tell us, without hindsight or blaming EITHER administration what solution you would offer? How many lives is it worth to you to be the Middle East Police...if its just a humanitarian urge, without media/political influence, dont you think we could save more lives for less money if we went to the Sudan with our aid?

I wish we were not involved at all, one life is too many, we should not act until acted upon. no aid to any middle eastern country.

Godfather.

i would say the same with military aid but humanitarian aid is different

Godfather.

rgambs said:

Godfather. said:

rgambs said:

mattsl1983
you ask many snarky questions on this board and i am seeing that you avoid answering the snarky questions that are asked of you so why dont you tell us, without hindsight or blaming EITHER administration what solution you would offer? How many lives is it worth to you to be the Middle East Police...if its just a humanitarian urge, without media/political influence, dont you think we could save more lives for less money if we went to the Sudan with our aid?

I wish we were not involved at all, one life is too many, we should not act until acted upon. no aid to any middle eastern country.

Godfather.

i would say the same with military aid but humanitarian aid is different

I would like to end both, if humanitarian aid equates to dollers it always ends up being used aginst us in the form of weapons or terrorism so it all goes back to military eventually.


Godfather.

Byrnzie

Godfather. said:

if humanitarian aid equates to dollers it always ends up being used aginst us in the form of weapons or terrorism

No it doesn't.