"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,912
How do people do these things? How the hell do some people's minds get so polluted that they can do things things? How does one soul become so foul that it becomes possible to engage in such heinous acts?
Yeah, I know someone will say we support this or that because we vote for him or her or buy this or that. No, I'm talking about the actual brutal acts. I don't get that and I never will.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Sorry I didn't answer your question. I'd say I read it in an article.Or I read it in a paper . And know I will have to watch Idiocracy.
Lol...ok, football analogies from now on. I was making a specific list...but ya the word 'papers' prob would have sufficed ) . I'm sure you've noticed I'm a thesaurus lovin, wordy mofo... And yes...watch idiocracy, it's some seriously funny social commentary.
I am no Irak expert but I think that it's good that the Kurds (peshmerga soldiers) are getting support from the US. to fight against these Isis monsters. I hope more help organizations will turn up to help all the refugees? This situation is beyond horrible. Isis wants to delete all Christians and others with another religion than Islam. Finally my country is sending down planes with aid at least.
This new military intervention was based on a massive humanitarian crisis that needed attention, That massive humanitarian crisis does not seem to exist, that came from U.S. Advisors.
That's the point.
Yet we are still gunning for Iraq because at the end, its about protecting our imperialistic ways/interests.
That is probably why the author said that "just seems grateful" cause it gave them an excuse to do what they've apparently wanted to do for a while.
end of story.
Not only did the exaggerated threat come from US advisors, the threat itself came from the US! These people were getting training from the US in Jordan as long as three years ago. Why does everyone assume they are no longer western imperialist assets? I mean...we've posthumously admitted to using these extremist groups in Afghanistan, Libya, Ukraine, Syria, and now Iraq...and that's just recent history.....but it's always past tense, right?
Why do we keep believing that these people 'betray' us, then go back to the same plan the next time we don't want to 'get our hands dirty'? Because eventually the public will call for us to get our hands dirty! Works every time. No one wants to believe their country could be involved with these people, but it's almost to the point we need to assume they're still taking orders from Langley and our regional allied intelligence apparatus.
The IS overrunning Iraq is beneficial to western hegemony - it ensures sectarian strife and will likely, eventually result in the balkanization of the country...smaller states with less resources and less means to gain power in the region. If things work out according to the designs of some US military planners, we will see this supposedly fearsome (but planned for) caliphate rise up (this is the IS's goal), leaving new, sectarian border lines across the region....guess who will control a large amount of the resources under these new borders? The Kurds....you know, the ones recently being promoted as the region's only hope. The ones Obama saved with air strikes when the IS began advancing on The oil hub of erbil (but not before letting them gain a foothold in Iraq). That's my take on it. This whole thing is playing out in a way that will put control of resources and transport corridors in the hands of compliant dictators, something western imperialist powers have been doing by various means for centuries now.
People who fall for the 'religious extremist/ancient sectarian strife' angle to this are being played. Using these whack jobs to do our dirty work is what makes it easy to sell support for war.
Sorry I didn't answer your question. I'd say I read it in an article.Or I read it in a paper . And know I will have to watch Idiocracy.
Lol...ok, football analogies from now on. I was making a specific list...but ya the word 'papers' prob would have sufficed ) . I'm sure you've noticed I'm a thesaurus lovin, wordy mofo... And yes...watch idiocracy, it's some seriously funny social commentary.
I am no Irak expert but I think that it's good that the Kurds (peshmerga soldiers) are getting support from the US. to fight against these Isis monsters. I hope more help organizations will turn up to help all the refugees? This situation is beyond horrible. Isis wants to delete all Christians and others with another religion than Islam. Finally my country is sending down planes with aid at least.
This new military intervention was based on a massive humanitarian crisis that needed attention, That massive humanitarian crisis does not seem to exist, that came from U.S. Advisors.
That's the point.
Yet we are still gunning for Iraq because at the end, its about protecting our imperialistic ways/interests.
That is probably why the author said that "just seems grateful" cause it gave them an excuse to do what they've apparently wanted to do for a while.
end of story.
Not only did the exaggerated threat come from US advisors, the threat itself came from the US! These people were getting training from the US in Jordan as long as three years ago. Why does everyone assume they are no longer western imperialist assets? I mean...we've posthumously admitted to using these extremist groups in Afghanistan, Libya, Ukraine, Syria, and now Iraq...and that's just recent history.....but it's always past tense, right?
Why do we keep believing that these people 'betray' us, then go back to the same plan the next time we don't want to 'get our hands dirty'? Because eventually the public will call for us to get our hands dirty! Works every time. No one wants to believe their country could be involved with these people, but it's almost to the point we need to assume they're still taking orders from Langley and our regional allied intelligence apparatus.
The IS overrunning Iraq is beneficial to western hegemony - it ensures sectarian strife and will likely, eventually result in the balkanization of the country...smaller states with less resources and less means to gain power in the region. If things work out according to the designs of some US military planners, we will see this supposedly fearsome (but planned for) caliphate rise up (this is the IS's goal), leaving new, sectarian border lines across the region....guess who will control a large amount of the resources under these new borders? The Kurds....you know, the ones recently being promoted as the region's only hope. The ones Obama saved with air strikes when the IS began advancing on The oil hub of erbil (but not before letting them gain a foothold in Iraq). That's my take on it. This whole thing is playing out in a way that will put control of resources and transport corridors in the hands of compliant dictators, something western imperialist powers have been doing by various means for centuries now.
People who fall for the 'religious extremist/ancient sectarian strife' angle to this are being played. Using these whack jobs to do our dirty work is what makes it easy to sell support for war.
I don't disagree with the take on the Kurds/oil/resources etc,and the "balkanizing" of the region but I do think Iran may have some issue with a new border threat from a new IS neighbor.
Did anyone ever come across a better source than the antiwar.com article backing the claim that the humanitarian crisis did not exist or was greatly exaggerated?
Sorry I didn't answer your question. I'd say I read it in an article.Or I read it in a paper . And know I will have to watch Idiocracy.
Lol...ok, football analogies from now on. I was making a specific list...but ya the word 'papers' prob would have sufficed ) . I'm sure you've noticed I'm a thesaurus lovin, wordy mofo... And yes...watch idiocracy, it's some seriously funny social commentary.
I am no Irak expert but I think that it's good that the Kurds (peshmerga soldiers) are getting support from the US. to fight against these Isis monsters. I hope more help organizations will turn up to help all the refugees? This situation is beyond horrible. Isis wants to delete all Christians and others with another religion than Islam. Finally my country is sending down planes with aid at least.
This new military intervention was based on a massive humanitarian crisis that needed attention, That massive humanitarian crisis does not seem to exist, that came from U.S. Advisors.
That's the point.
Yet we are still gunning for Iraq because at the end, its about protecting our imperialistic ways/interests.
That is probably why the author said that "just seems grateful" cause it gave them an excuse to do what they've apparently wanted to do for a while.
end of story.
Not only did the exaggerated threat come from US advisors, the threat itself came from the US! These people were getting training from the US in Jordan as long as three years ago. Why does everyone assume they are no longer western imperialist assets? I mean...we've posthumously admitted to using these extremist groups in Afghanistan, Libya, Ukraine, Syria, and now Iraq...and that's just recent history.....but it's always past tense, right?
Why do we keep believing that these people 'betray' us, then go back to the same plan the next time we don't want to 'get our hands dirty'? Because eventually the public will call for us to get our hands dirty! Works every time. No one wants to believe their country could be involved with these people, but it's almost to the point we need to assume they're still taking orders from Langley and our regional allied intelligence apparatus.
The IS overrunning Iraq is beneficial to western hegemony - it ensures sectarian strife and will likely, eventually result in the balkanization of the country...smaller states with less resources and less means to gain power in the region. If things work out according to the designs of some US military planners, we will see this supposedly fearsome (but planned for) caliphate rise up (this is the IS's goal), leaving new, sectarian border lines across the region....guess who will control a large amount of the resources under these new borders? The Kurds....you know, the ones recently being promoted as the region's only hope. The ones Obama saved with air strikes when the IS began advancing on The oil hub of erbil (but not before letting them gain a foothold in Iraq). That's my take on it. This whole thing is playing out in a way that will put control of resources and transport corridors in the hands of compliant dictators, something western imperialist powers have been doing by various means for centuries now.
People who fall for the 'religious extremist/ancient sectarian strife' angle to this are being played. Using these whack jobs to do our dirty work is what makes it easy to sell support for war.
As a southerner I have to agree...football does dominate the mindset when it comes to leisure activities and entertainment.
As for the serious shit going on, Drowned Out you are right on the mark. Our government/military has been doing this shit forever in S America, Middle East and Europe. It is a fucking shame that more people don't realize it and that innocent people have to die for the rich to secure their land/power/oil interests.
It doesn't change the fact that I think these zealots should be eliminated.... however I would like something to come out similar to Iran/Contra to expose these "Masters of War" behind the scenes. Then again, I don't know if the general apathetic American would even give a fuck.
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
Sorry I didn't answer your question. I'd say I read it in an article.Or I read it in a paper . And know I will have to watch Idiocracy.
Lol...ok, football analogies from now on. I was making a specific list...but ya the word 'papers' prob would have sufficed ) . I'm sure you've noticed I'm a thesaurus lovin, wordy mofo... And yes...watch idiocracy, it's some seriously funny social commentary.
I am no Irak expert but I think that it's good that the Kurds (peshmerga soldiers) are getting support from the US. to fight against these Isis monsters. I hope more help organizations will turn up to help all the refugees? This situation is beyond horrible. Isis wants to delete all Christians and others with another religion than Islam. Finally my country is sending down planes with aid at least.
This new military intervention was based on a massive humanitarian crisis that needed attention, That massive humanitarian crisis does not seem to exist, that came from U.S. Advisors.
That's the point.
Yet we are still gunning for Iraq because at the end, its about protecting our imperialistic ways/interests.
That is probably why the author said that "just seems grateful" cause it gave them an excuse to do what they've apparently wanted to do for a while.
end of story.
Not only did the exaggerated threat come from US advisors, the threat itself came from the US! These people were getting training from the US in Jordan as long as three years ago. Why does everyone assume they are no longer western imperialist assets? I mean...we've posthumously admitted to using these extremist groups in Afghanistan, Libya, Ukraine, Syria, and now Iraq...and that's just recent history.....but it's always past tense, right?
Why do we keep believing that these people 'betray' us, then go back to the same plan the next time we don't want to 'get our hands dirty'? Because eventually the public will call for us to get our hands dirty! Works every time. No one wants to believe their country could be involved with these people, but it's almost to the point we need to assume they're still taking orders from Langley and our regional allied intelligence apparatus.
The IS overrunning Iraq is beneficial to western hegemony - it ensures sectarian strife and will likely, eventually result in the balkanization of the country...smaller states with less resources and less means to gain power in the region. If things work out according to the designs of some US military planners, we will see this supposedly fearsome (but planned for) caliphate rise up (this is the IS's goal), leaving new, sectarian border lines across the region....guess who will control a large amount of the resources under these new borders? The Kurds....you know, the ones recently being promoted as the region's only hope. The ones Obama saved with air strikes when the IS began advancing on The oil hub of erbil (but not before letting them gain a foothold in Iraq). That's my take on it. This whole thing is playing out in a way that will put control of resources and transport corridors in the hands of compliant dictators, something western imperialist powers have been doing by various means for centuries now.
People who fall for the 'religious extremist/ancient sectarian strife' angle to this are being played. Using these whack jobs to do our dirty work is what makes it easy to sell support for war.
As a southerner I have to agree...football does dominate the mindset when it comes to leisure activities and entertainment.
As for the serious shit going on, Drowned Out you are right on the mark. Our government/military has been doing this shit forever in S America, Middle East and Europe. It is a fucking shame that more people don't realize it and that innocent people have to die for the rich to secure their land/power/oil interests.
It doesn't change the fact that I think these zealots should be eliminated.... however I would like something to come out similar to Iran/Contra to expose these "Masters of War" behind the scenes. Then again, I don't know if the general apathetic American would even give a fuck.
Sorry I didn't answer your question. I'd say I read it in an article.Or I read it in a paper . And know I will have to watch Idiocracy.
Lol...ok, football analogies from now on. I was making a specific list...but ya the word 'papers' prob would have sufficed ) . I'm sure you've noticed I'm a thesaurus lovin, wordy mofo... And yes...watch idiocracy, it's some seriously funny social commentary.
I am no Irak expert but I think that it's good that the Kurds (peshmerga soldiers) are getting support from the US. to fight against these Isis monsters. I hope more help organizations will turn up to help all the refugees? This situation is beyond horrible. Isis wants to delete all Christians and others with another religion than Islam. Finally my country is sending down planes with aid at least.
This new military intervention was based on a massive humanitarian crisis that needed attention, That massive humanitarian crisis does not seem to exist, that came from U.S. Advisors.
That's the point.
Yet we are still gunning for Iraq because at the end, its about protecting our imperialistic ways/interests.
That is probably why the author said that "just seems grateful" cause it gave them an excuse to do what they've apparently wanted to do for a while.
end of story.
Not only did the exaggerated threat come from US advisors, the threat itself came from the US! These people were getting training from the US in Jordan as long as three years ago. Why does everyone assume they are no longer western imperialist assets? I mean...we've posthumously admitted to using these extremist groups in Afghanistan, Libya, Ukraine, Syria, and now Iraq...and that's just recent history.....but it's always past tense, right?
Why do we keep believing that these people 'betray' us, then go back to the same plan the next time we don't want to 'get our hands dirty'? Because eventually the public will call for us to get our hands dirty! Works every time. No one wants to believe their country could be involved with these people, but it's almost to the point we need to assume they're still taking orders from Langley and our regional allied intelligence apparatus.
The IS overrunning Iraq is beneficial to western hegemony - it ensures sectarian strife and will likely, eventually result in the balkanization of the country...smaller states with less resources and less means to gain power in the region. If things work out according to the designs of some US military planners, we will see this supposedly fearsome (but planned for) caliphate rise up (this is the IS's goal), leaving new, sectarian border lines across the region....guess who will control a large amount of the resources under these new borders? The Kurds....you know, the ones recently being promoted as the region's only hope. The ones Obama saved with air strikes when the IS began advancing on The oil hub of erbil (but not before letting them gain a foothold in Iraq). That's my take on it. This whole thing is playing out in a way that will put control of resources and transport corridors in the hands of compliant dictators, something western imperialist powers have been doing by various means for centuries now.
People who fall for the 'religious extremist/ancient sectarian strife' angle to this are being played. Using these whack jobs to do our dirty work is what makes it easy to sell support for war.
As a southerner I have to agree...football does dominate the mindset when it comes to leisure activities and entertainment.
As for the serious shit going on, Drowned Out you are right on the mark. Our government/military has been doing this shit forever in S America, Middle East and Europe. It is a fucking shame that more people don't realize it and that innocent people have to die for the rich to secure their land/power/oil interests.
It doesn't change the fact that I think these zealots should be eliminated.... however I would like something to come out similar to Iran/Contra to expose these "Masters of War" behind the scenes. Then again, I don't know if the general apathetic American would even give a fuck.
Do we have an Ollie North sighting?
I hope not. I remember seeing that tool on Fox News around 2000/2001. That is the last time I could even "humour" that stupid channel.
we need to find the "new" Ollie North and put his ass on trial.
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
Did anyone ever come across a better source than the antiwar.com article backing the claim that the humanitarian crisis did not exist or was greatly exaggerated?
I spent some time checking this, and it appears that this story is widely corroborated - the hyperbole really only came from one sentence in the antiwar article - "But a funny thing happened when the US “advisers” got to Mount Sinjar. There weren’t 40,000 starving Yazidis stranded there. In fact, the indications are that there never were, and the Pentagon quickly dropped the “rescue” plan".
Inferring that they were never there is the possibly misleading part of the report. I haven't been able to confirm that statement....but I would tend to believe that the numbers were probably inflated, and residents counted as fleeing refugees, in an effort to sell the crisis.
The point remains that this was completely blown out of proportion to build support for military action...and it worked. We were led to believe these people were dead if we didn't send in troops and launch air strikes. But a group of Kurdish fighters with much less weaponry than the US were able to give them safe passage without a huge amount of bloodshed? Also, as always with misleading reporting / government propaganda....the initial story is the one people remember, and the one that gets all the press....the back pedalling and fact checking get much less play. This story succeeded in framing the Kurds as good guys who deserve guns guns guns, and rightfully horrified people at the actions of the IS....but without context.
Did anyone ever come across a better source than the antiwar.com article backing the claim that the humanitarian crisis did not exist or was greatly exaggerated?
It came directly from the pentagon(?), do a search, (which u could've just done, instead of asking here, as u said yourself, do your own research)
The " Tens of Thousands" of trapped people was a gross exaggeration, and many of the people on the mountain wanted to be on the mountain and in fact had food and water and were not stuck.
All of which were excuses used by The U.S. To hit at our hearts to support military action.
'Far fewer' stranded on Iraq mountain than feared, US says
An American assessment team found "far fewer" Yazidis trapped in northern Iraq than expected, making an evacuation mission less likely, as the flight of minority groups from advancing jihadists showed no let-up Thursday.
But the Pentagon said that -- based on a firsthand assessment by a small party of US military personnel -- the plight of those on the mountain was not as bad as had been feared, and an evacuation mission was therefore "far less likely".
Did anyone ever come across a better source than the antiwar.com article backing the claim that the humanitarian crisis did not exist or was greatly exaggerated?
It came directly from the pentagon(?), do a search, (which u could've just done rather then ask here)
The " Tens of Thousands" of trapped people was a gross exaggeration, and many of the people on the mountain wanted to be on the mountain and in fact had food and water and were not stuck.
All of which were excuses used by The U.S. To hit at our hearts to support military action.
Why the question mark after pentagon?
Why the attitude in your post? This is a message board. People discuss things and often ask questions of each other.
I asked the question here because the article was posted here, without any further collaboration to that point, and accepted by some here to be entirely factual. I asked here because I was curious if anyone had seen it reported elsewhere and was more informed than I. Not at all out of bounds.
and the ? mark was because when I quickly posted the reply, I could not remember 100% if it did come from the pentagon, so thats why I added the '?' (in brackets)
Did anyone ever come across a better source than the antiwar.com article backing the claim that the humanitarian crisis did not exist or was greatly exaggerated?
I spent some time checking this, and it appears that this story is widely corroborated - the hyperbole really only came from one sentence in the antiwar article - "But a funny thing happened when the US “advisers” got to Mount Sinjar. There weren’t 40,000 starving Yazidis stranded there. In fact, the indications are that there never were, and the Pentagon quickly dropped the “rescue” plan".
Inferring that they were never there is the possibly misleading part of the report. I haven't been able to confirm that statement....but I would tend to believe that the numbers were probably inflated, and residents counted as fleeing refugees, in an effort to sell the crisis.
The point remains that this was completely blown out of proportion to build support for military action...and it worked. We were led to believe these people were dead if we didn't send in troops and launch air strikes. But a group of Kurdish fighters with much less weaponry than the US were able to give them safe passage without a huge amount of bloodshed? Also, as always with misleading reporting / government propaganda....the initial story is the one people remember, and the one that gets all the press....the back pedalling and fact checking get much less play. This story succeeded in framing the Kurds as good guys who deserve guns guns guns, and rightfully horrified people at the actions of the IS....but without context.
True, the initial story will always be the one people remember.
I would disagree that was the only questionable sentence in that article. (If I recall correctly, there was something along the lines of "reigniting a war this administration seems to be chomping at the bit for.") But so be it.
I think the story succeeded in demonstrating that IS needed to be stopped, and that the Kurds were trying to do that. Beheading journalists, strangling women, cutting children into pieces...this is what the Yazidi were fleeing, and this is what faced them if they came down off that mountain. I think when we pretend there was no humanitarian crisis there we minimize the atrocities being committed. Perhaps it was exaggerated. If so, to what extent remains a valid question. But it did exist and that is important to remember. Alos, it isn't quite accurate to say that the Kurds were able to give them safe passage without a huge amount of bloodshed. That happened only after ISIS was hit with airstrikes. We don't know that result would have been the same without the air support.
'Far fewer' stranded on Iraq mountain than feared, US says
An American assessment team found "far fewer" Yazidis trapped in northern Iraq than expected, making an evacuation mission less likely, as the flight of minority groups from advancing jihadists showed no let-up Thursday.
But the Pentagon said that -- based on a firsthand assessment by a small party of US military personnel -- the plight of those on the mountain was not as bad as had been feared, and an evacuation mission was therefore "far less likely".
Interesting read. Thanks for posting. Thought this quote was telling, and kind of negates the idea that the crisis was overblown from the beginning
"The team has assessed that there are far fewer Yazidis on Mount Sinjar than previously feared, in part because of the success of humanitarian air drops, air strikes on (IS) targets, the efforts of the (Kurdish forces) and the ability of thousands of Yazidis to evacuate from the mountain each night over the last several days," he said.
"The Yazidis who remain are in better condition than previously believed and continue to have access to the food and water that we have dropped."
Food and water improved the situation on the mountain top and the air strikes opened a corridor for people to escape through. That those efforts mitigated the need for a large-scale rescue operation doesn't indicate to me that such an operation was never seen as a possible necessity. People were trapped on the mountain and they needed help.
The U.S. is backing governments and groups that are responsible for slaughtering innocent people in Africa, yet we care about innocent people in Iraq. Only cause it's in our own interest to do so.
The U.S. is backing governments and groups that are responsible for slaughtering innocent people in Africa, yet we care about innocent people in Iraq. Only cause it's in our own interest to do so.
Let's not forget Gaza either! Ya, I agree, funny how we're selectively mad at certain groups but yet others are ok to slaughter innocents.
'Far fewer' stranded on Iraq mountain than feared, US says
An American assessment team found "far fewer" Yazidis trapped in northern Iraq than expected, making an evacuation mission less likely, as the flight of minority groups from advancing jihadists showed no let-up Thursday.
But the Pentagon said that -- based on a firsthand assessment by a small party of US military personnel -- the plight of those on the mountain was not as bad as had been feared, and an evacuation mission was therefore "far less likely".
Interesting read. Thanks for posting. Thought this quote was telling, and kind of negates the idea that the crisis was overblown from the beginning
"The team has assessed that there are far fewer Yazidis on Mount Sinjar than previously feared, in part because of the success of humanitarian air drops, air strikes on (IS) targets, the efforts of the (Kurdish forces) and the ability of thousands of Yazidis to evacuate from the mountain each night over the last several days," he said.
"The Yazidis who remain are in better condition than previously believed and continue to have access to the food and water that we have dropped."
Food and water improved the situation on the mountain top and the air strikes opened a corridor for people to escape through. That those efforts mitigated the need for a large-scale rescue operation doesn't indicate to me that such an operation was never seen as a possible necessity. People were trapped on the mountain and they needed help.
Can you verify that the airstrikes were to open a corridor for escape? Because the reports I've read were that the airstrikes were defending Erbil (or Arbil or Irbil....damn translations) - the Kurdish capital and oil hub for the region, from IS advance. Erbil is 250km east of the Sinjar mountains....although some US officials were quick to take credit, all reports I've seen say that it was the Kurdish fighters who helped the people off the mountain, with the US air dropping only food and water in the area. When US advisors landed, they were already gone. I can't say for sure, but I think the convolution of where and when between the two separate issues is intentional....bring up a humanitarian crisis and promote the shit out of it while you drop bombs to protect oil interests elsewhere.....westerners have never been good with foreign geography, we wouldn't be expected to pick up on that.
The U.S. is backing governments and groups that are responsible for slaughtering innocent people in Africa, yet we care about innocent people in Iraq. Only cause it's in our own interest to do so.
'Far fewer' stranded on Iraq mountain than feared, US says
An American assessment team found "far fewer" Yazidis trapped in northern Iraq than expected, making an evacuation mission less likely, as the flight of minority groups from advancing jihadists showed no let-up Thursday.
But the Pentagon said that -- based on a firsthand assessment by a small party of US military personnel -- the plight of those on the mountain was not as bad as had been feared, and an evacuation mission was therefore "far less likely".
Interesting read. Thanks for posting. Thought this quote was telling, and kind of negates the idea that the crisis was overblown from the beginning
"The team has assessed that there are far fewer Yazidis on Mount Sinjar than previously feared, in part because of the success of humanitarian air drops, air strikes on (IS) targets, the efforts of the (Kurdish forces) and the ability of thousands of Yazidis to evacuate from the mountain each night over the last several days," he said.
"The Yazidis who remain are in better condition than previously believed and continue to have access to the food and water that we have dropped."
Food and water improved the situation on the mountain top and the air strikes opened a corridor for people to escape through. That those efforts mitigated the need for a large-scale rescue operation doesn't indicate to me that such an operation was never seen as a possible necessity. People were trapped on the mountain and they needed help.
Can you verify that the airstrikes were to open a corridor for escape? Because the reports I've read were that the airstrikes were defending Erbil (or Arbil or Irbil....damn translations) - the Kurdish capital and oil hub for the region, from IS advance. Erbil is 250km east of the Sinjar mountains....although some US officials were quick to take credit, all reports I've seen say that it was the Kurdish fighters who helped the people off the mountain, with the US air dropping only food and water in the area. I can't say for sure, but I think the convolution of where and when between the two separate issues is intentional....bring up a humanitarian crisis and promote the shit out of it while you drop bombs to protect oil interests elsewhere.....westerners have never been good with foreign geography, it's no surprise that we wouldn't be expected to pick up on that.
I hear you about the translations. Also, I don't know when ISIS became IS but the second one is easier to type so I'll go with it. :-)
Off the top of my head I can't verify that airstrikes opened that corridor but I will look around for more info.
The U.S. is backing governments and groups that are responsible for slaughtering innocent people in Africa, yet we care about innocent people in Iraq. Only cause it's in our own interest to do so.
'Far fewer' stranded on Iraq mountain than feared, US says
An American assessment team found "far fewer" Yazidis trapped in northern Iraq than expected, making an evacuation mission less likely, as the flight of minority groups from advancing jihadists showed no let-up Thursday.
But the Pentagon said that -- based on a firsthand assessment by a small party of US military personnel -- the plight of those on the mountain was not as bad as had been feared, and an evacuation mission was therefore "far less likely".
Interesting read. Thanks for posting. Thought this quote was telling, and kind of negates the idea that the crisis was overblown from the beginning
"The team has assessed that there are far fewer Yazidis on Mount Sinjar than previously feared, in part because of the success of humanitarian air drops, air strikes on (IS) targets, the efforts of the (Kurdish forces) and the ability of thousands of Yazidis to evacuate from the mountain each night over the last several days," he said.
"The Yazidis who remain are in better condition than previously believed and continue to have access to the food and water that we have dropped."
Food and water improved the situation on the mountain top and the air strikes opened a corridor for people to escape through. That those efforts mitigated the need for a large-scale rescue operation doesn't indicate to me that such an operation was never seen as a possible necessity. People were trapped on the mountain and they needed help.
Can you verify that the airstrikes were to open a corridor for escape? Because the reports I've read were that the airstrikes were defending Erbil (or Arbil or Irbil....damn translations) - the Kurdish capital and oil hub for the region, from IS advance. Erbil is 250km east of the Sinjar mountains....although some US officials were quick to take credit, all reports I've seen say that it was the Kurdish fighters who helped the people off the mountain, with the US air dropping only food and water in the area. I can't say for sure, but I think the convolution of where and when between the two separate issues is intentional....bring up a humanitarian crisis and promote the shit out of it while you drop bombs to protect oil interests elsewhere.....westerners have never been good with foreign geography, it's no surprise that we wouldn't be expected to pick up on that.
I hear you about the translations. Also, I don't know when ISIS became IS but the second one is easier to type so I'll go with it. :-)
Off the top of my head I can't verify that airstrikes opened that corridor but I will look around for more info.
They've gone from ISIL to ISIS and now to IS...I think they changed it to the Islamic State just a week or so ago. Easier branding
The U.S. is backing governments and groups that are responsible for slaughtering innocent people in Africa, yet we care about innocent people in Iraq. Only cause it's in our own interest to do so.
Let's not forget Gaza either! Ya, I agree, funny how we're selectively mad at certain groups but yet others are ok to slaughter innocents.
The U.S. is backing governments and groups that are responsible for slaughtering innocent people in Africa, yet we care about innocent people in Iraq. Only cause it's in our own interest to do so.
'Far fewer' stranded on Iraq mountain than feared, US says
An American assessment team found "far fewer" Yazidis trapped in northern Iraq than expected, making an evacuation mission less likely, as the flight of minority groups from advancing jihadists showed no let-up Thursday.
But the Pentagon said that -- based on a firsthand assessment by a small party of US military personnel -- the plight of those on the mountain was not as bad as had been feared, and an evacuation mission was therefore "far less likely".
Interesting read. Thanks for posting. Thought this quote was telling, and kind of negates the idea that the crisis was overblown from the beginning
"The team has assessed that there are far fewer Yazidis on Mount Sinjar than previously feared, in part because of the success of humanitarian air drops, air strikes on (IS) targets, the efforts of the (Kurdish forces) and the ability of thousands of Yazidis to evacuate from the mountain each night over the last several days," he said.
"The Yazidis who remain are in better condition than previously believed and continue to have access to the food and water that we have dropped."
Food and water improved the situation on the mountain top and the air strikes opened a corridor for people to escape through. That those efforts mitigated the need for a large-scale rescue operation doesn't indicate to me that such an operation was never seen as a possible necessity. People were trapped on the mountain and they needed help.
Can you verify that the airstrikes were to open a corridor for escape? Because the reports I've read were that the airstrikes were defending Erbil (or Arbil or Irbil....damn translations) - the Kurdish capital and oil hub for the region, from IS advance. Erbil is 250km east of the Sinjar mountains....although some US officials were quick to take credit, all reports I've seen say that it was the Kurdish fighters who helped the people off the mountain, with the US air dropping only food and water in the area. I can't say for sure, but I think the convolution of where and when between the two separate issues is intentional....bring up a humanitarian crisis and promote the shit out of it while you drop bombs to protect oil interests elsewhere.....westerners have never been good with foreign geography, it's no surprise that we wouldn't be expected to pick up on that.
I hear you about the translations. Also, I don't know when ISIS became IS but the second one is easier to type so I'll go with it. :-)
Off the top of my head I can't verify that airstrikes opened that corridor but I will look around for more info.
They've gone from ISIL to ISIS and now to IS...I think they changed it to the Islamic State just a week or so ago. Easier branding
The U.S. is backing governments and groups that are responsible for slaughtering innocent people in Africa, yet we care about innocent people in Iraq. Only cause it's in our own interest to do so.
'Far fewer' stranded on Iraq mountain than feared, US says
An American assessment team found "far fewer" Yazidis trapped in northern Iraq than expected, making an evacuation mission less likely, as the flight of minority groups from advancing jihadists showed no let-up Thursday.
But the Pentagon said that -- based on a firsthand assessment by a small party of US military personnel -- the plight of those on the mountain was not as bad as had been feared, and an evacuation mission was therefore "far less likely".
Interesting read. Thanks for posting. Thought this quote was telling, and kind of negates the idea that the crisis was overblown from the beginning
"The team has assessed that there are far fewer Yazidis on Mount Sinjar than previously feared, in part because of the success of humanitarian air drops, air strikes on (IS) targets, the efforts of the (Kurdish forces) and the ability of thousands of Yazidis to evacuate from the mountain each night over the last several days," he said.
"The Yazidis who remain are in better condition than previously believed and continue to have access to the food and water that we have dropped."
Food and water improved the situation on the mountain top and the air strikes opened a corridor for people to escape through. That those efforts mitigated the need for a large-scale rescue operation doesn't indicate to me that such an operation was never seen as a possible necessity. People were trapped on the mountain and they needed help.
Can you verify that the airstrikes were to open a corridor for escape? Because the reports I've read were that the airstrikes were defending Erbil (or Arbil or Irbil....damn translations) - the Kurdish capital and oil hub for the region, from IS advance. Erbil is 250km east of the Sinjar mountains....although some US officials were quick to take credit, all reports I've seen say that it was the Kurdish fighters who helped the people off the mountain, with the US air dropping only food and water in the area. I can't say for sure, but I think the convolution of where and when between the two separate issues is intentional....bring up a humanitarian crisis and promote the shit out of it while you drop bombs to protect oil interests elsewhere.....westerners have never been good with foreign geography, it's no surprise that we wouldn't be expected to pick up on that.
I hear you about the translations. Also, I don't know when ISIS became IS but the second one is easier to type so I'll go with it. :-)
Off the top of my head I can't verify that airstrikes opened that corridor but I will look around for more info.
They've gone from ISIL to ISIS and now to IS...I think they changed it to the Islamic State just a week or so ago. Easier branding
It's all about the marketing
It is! (all about the branding/marketing)
I can't wait for 'Hamas' to change it's name to 'Hummus', Since hummus is sooo popular right now in the west.
The U.S. is backing governments and groups that are responsible for slaughtering innocent people in Africa, yet we care about innocent people in Iraq. Only cause it's in our own interest to do so.
'Far fewer' stranded on Iraq mountain than feared, US says
An American assessment team found "far fewer" Yazidis trapped in northern Iraq than expected, making an evacuation mission less likely, as the flight of minority groups from advancing jihadists showed no let-up Thursday.
But the Pentagon said that -- based on a firsthand assessment by a small party of US military personnel -- the plight of those on the mountain was not as bad as had been feared, and an evacuation mission was therefore "far less likely".
Interesting read. Thanks for posting. Thought this quote was telling, and kind of negates the idea that the crisis was overblown from the beginning
"The team has assessed that there are far fewer Yazidis on Mount Sinjar than previously feared, in part because of the success of humanitarian air drops, air strikes on (IS) targets, the efforts of the (Kurdish forces) and the ability of thousands of Yazidis to evacuate from the mountain each night over the last several days," he said.
"The Yazidis who remain are in better condition than previously believed and continue to have access to the food and water that we have dropped."
Food and water improved the situation on the mountain top and the air strikes opened a corridor for people to escape through. That those efforts mitigated the need for a large-scale rescue operation doesn't indicate to me that such an operation was never seen as a possible necessity. People were trapped on the mountain and they needed help.
Can you verify that the airstrikes were to open a corridor for escape? Because the reports I've read were that the airstrikes were defending Erbil (or Arbil or Irbil....damn translations) - the Kurdish capital and oil hub for the region, from IS advance. Erbil is 250km east of the Sinjar mountains....although some US officials were quick to take credit, all reports I've seen say that it was the Kurdish fighters who helped the people off the mountain, with the US air dropping only food and water in the area. I can't say for sure, but I think the convolution of where and when between the two separate issues is intentional....bring up a humanitarian crisis and promote the shit out of it while you drop bombs to protect oil interests elsewhere.....westerners have never been good with foreign geography, it's no surprise that we wouldn't be expected to pick up on that.
I hear you about the translations. Also, I don't know when ISIS became IS but the second one is easier to type so I'll go with it. :-)
Off the top of my head I can't verify that airstrikes opened that corridor but I will look around for more info.
They've gone from ISIL to ISIS and now to IS...I think they changed it to the Islamic State just a week or so ago. Easier branding
It's all about the marketing
It is! (all about the branding/marketing)
I can't wait for 'Hamas' to change it's name to 'Hummus', Since hummus is sooo popular right now in the west.
You may be on to something.Who Dosent enjoy a nice little hummus schmear on veggie or cracker.It really diffuses the negative.Maybe get like a chic pea mascot something like that.Down side-Publix will see a decline in sales.lol
you just made me think about George Carlin selling and branding Christianity in the movie Dogma.wasnt it the "Christianity Now" campaign?
Ah ya, the thumbs up Jesus from Dogma, - Yep, Publix sales will decline, whole foods sales will increase (cause of all the hipster terrorist's buying into it)
oh, 'Fatah' changes name to 'falafel' and when the two come together (again) it'll make a great political sandwich, food the way to the hearts of the American populace.
That's how they get Americans to support Palestine.
oh, 'Fatah' changes name to 'falafel' and when the two come together (again) it'll make a great political sandwich, food the way to the hearts of the American populace.
That's how they get Americans to support Palestine.
Or just do a little rebranding.Instead of Palestine the new name to help with western support is Palestandia.We should also drop the Gaza from Gaza Strip and it can be a new fresh vacation hotspot called "The Strip" or Keep Gaza,drop the strip and add in coast."The Gaza Coast" has a nice beachy vibe to it.
Comments
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Yeah, I know someone will say we support this or that because we vote for him or her or buy this or that. No, I'm talking about the actual brutal acts. I don't get that and I never will.
And yes...watch idiocracy, it's some seriously funny social commentary. Not only did the exaggerated threat come from US advisors, the threat itself came from the US! These people were getting training from the US in Jordan as long as three years ago.
Why does everyone assume they are no longer western imperialist assets?
I mean...we've posthumously admitted to using these extremist groups in Afghanistan, Libya, Ukraine, Syria, and now Iraq...and that's just recent history.....but it's always past tense, right?
Why do we keep believing that these people 'betray' us, then go back to the same plan the next time we don't want to 'get our hands dirty'? Because eventually the public will call for us to get our hands dirty! Works every time. No one wants to believe their country could be involved with these people, but it's almost to the point we need to assume they're still taking orders from Langley and our regional allied intelligence apparatus.
The IS overrunning Iraq is beneficial to western hegemony - it ensures sectarian strife and will likely, eventually result in the balkanization of the country...smaller states with less resources and less means to gain power in the region. If things work out according to the designs of some US military planners, we will see this supposedly fearsome (but planned for) caliphate rise up (this is the IS's goal), leaving new, sectarian border lines across the region....guess who will control a large amount of the resources under these new borders? The Kurds....you know, the ones recently being promoted as the region's only hope. The ones Obama saved with air strikes when the IS began advancing on The oil hub of erbil (but not before letting them gain a foothold in Iraq).
That's my take on it. This whole thing is playing out in a way that will put control of resources and transport corridors in the hands of compliant dictators, something western imperialist powers have been doing by various means for centuries now.
People who fall for the 'religious extremist/ancient sectarian strife' angle to this are being played. Using these whack jobs to do our dirty work is what makes it easy to sell support for war.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
As for the serious shit going on, Drowned Out you are right on the mark.
Our government/military has been doing this shit forever in S America, Middle East and Europe.
It is a fucking shame that more people don't realize it and that innocent people have to die for the rich to secure their land/power/oil interests.
It doesn't change the fact that I think these zealots should be eliminated.... however I would like something to come out similar to Iran/Contra to expose these "Masters of War" behind the scenes.
Then again, I don't know if the general apathetic American would even give a fuck.
livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=446
1995- New Orleans, LA : New Orleans, LA
1996- Charleston, SC
1998- Atlanta, GA: Birmingham, AL: Greenville, SC: Knoxville, TN
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
2017- ED VED- Louisville, KY
2018- Chicago, IL x2, Boston, MA x2
2020- Nashville, TN
2022- Smashville
2023- Austin, TX x2
2024- Baltimore
That is the last time I could even "humour" that stupid channel.
we need to find the "new" Ollie North and put his ass on trial.
or just indict Dick Cheney.
livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=446
1995- New Orleans, LA : New Orleans, LA
1996- Charleston, SC
1998- Atlanta, GA: Birmingham, AL: Greenville, SC: Knoxville, TN
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
2017- ED VED- Louisville, KY
2018- Chicago, IL x2, Boston, MA x2
2020- Nashville, TN
2022- Smashville
2023- Austin, TX x2
2024- Baltimore
Inferring that they were never there is the possibly misleading part of the report. I haven't been able to confirm that statement....but I would tend to believe that the numbers were probably inflated, and residents counted as fleeing refugees, in an effort to sell the crisis.
The point remains that this was completely blown out of proportion to build support for military action...and it worked. We were led to believe these people were dead if we didn't send in troops and launch air strikes. But a group of Kurdish fighters with much less weaponry than the US were able to give them safe passage without a huge amount of bloodshed?
Also, as always with misleading reporting / government propaganda....the initial story is the one people remember, and the one that gets all the press....the back pedalling and fact checking get much less play. This story succeeded in framing the Kurds as good guys who deserve guns guns guns, and rightfully horrified people at the actions of the IS....but without context.
The " Tens of Thousands" of trapped people was a gross exaggeration, and many of the people on the mountain wanted to be on the mountain and in fact had food and water and were not stuck.
All of which were excuses used by The U.S. To hit at our hearts to support military action.
An American assessment team found "far fewer" Yazidis trapped in northern Iraq than expected, making an evacuation mission less likely, as the flight of minority groups from advancing jihadists showed no let-up Thursday.
But the Pentagon said that -- based on a firsthand assessment by a small party of US military personnel -- the plight of those on the mountain was not as bad as had been feared, and an evacuation mission was therefore "far less likely".
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/us-forces-headed-iraq-mountain-kurdish-spokesman-191034538.html#eQDltCw
Why the attitude in your post? This is a message board. People discuss things and often ask questions of each other.
I asked the question here because the article was posted here, without any further collaboration to that point, and accepted by some here to be entirely factual. I asked here because I was curious if anyone had seen it reported elsewhere and was more informed than I. Not at all out of bounds.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
and the ? mark was because when I quickly posted the reply, I could not remember 100% if it did come from the pentagon, so thats why I added the '?' (in brackets)
I would disagree that was the only questionable sentence in that article. (If I recall correctly, there was something along the lines of "reigniting a war this administration seems to be chomping at the bit for.") But so be it.
I think the story succeeded in demonstrating that IS needed to be stopped, and that the Kurds were trying to do that. Beheading journalists, strangling women, cutting children into pieces...this is what the Yazidi were fleeing, and this is what faced them if they came down off that mountain. I think when we pretend there was no humanitarian crisis there we minimize the atrocities being committed. Perhaps it was exaggerated. If so, to what extent remains a valid question. But it did exist and that is important to remember. Alos, it isn't quite accurate to say that the Kurds were able to give them safe passage without a huge amount of bloodshed. That happened only after ISIS was hit with airstrikes. We don't know that result would have been the same without the air support.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"The team has assessed that there are far fewer Yazidis on Mount Sinjar than previously feared, in part because of the success of humanitarian air drops, air strikes on (IS) targets, the efforts of the (Kurdish forces) and the ability of thousands of Yazidis to evacuate from the mountain each night over the last several days," he said.
"The Yazidis who remain are in better condition than previously believed and continue to have access to the food and water that we have dropped."
Food and water improved the situation on the mountain top and the air strikes opened a corridor for people to escape through. That those efforts mitigated the need for a large-scale rescue operation doesn't indicate to me that such an operation was never seen as a possible necessity. People were trapped on the mountain and they needed help.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
I can't say for sure, but I think the convolution of where and when between the two separate issues is intentional....bring up a humanitarian crisis and promote the shit out of it while you drop bombs to protect oil interests elsewhere.....westerners have never been good with foreign geography, we wouldn't be expected to pick up on that.
Off the top of my head I can't verify that airstrikes opened that corridor but I will look around for more info.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
I can't wait for 'Hamas' to change it's name to 'Hummus', Since hummus is sooo popular right now in the west.
you just made me think about George Carlin selling and branding Christianity in the movie Dogma.wasnt it the "Christianity Now" campaign?
-
Yep, Publix sales will decline, whole foods sales will increase (cause of all the hipster terrorist's buying into it)
That's how they get Americans to support Palestine.
Palestandia.We should also drop the Gaza from Gaza Strip and it can be a new fresh vacation hotspot called "The Strip" or Keep Gaza,drop the strip and add in coast."The Gaza Coast" has a nice beachy vibe to it.