whatever its worth, these ISIS ISIL what the fuck ever , are hardcore. They are clear in their objective and appear to have the strength of will to do whatever is necessary to achieve that goal. Rules of engagement do not apply for them and as such rules of engagement shouldnt apply in dealing with them.
If some of the baddest of the bad are saying these guys are fucked up even for them , then acting with extreme prejudice is the only option. Just wonder who will have the fucking balls to do it? I would prefer some other group of Arabs clean up their own backyard. These guys arent gonna stop with just Iraq.
Well-said, mickey. Watching the news just now on this, my fucking god.
Whose fucking god, no fucking god?
Shawshank, earlier my husband said (well, shouted in anger) essentially the same as you. Totally agree.
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,357
Absolutely merit in that. I'm for greater involvement/leadership from Europe and elsewhere in things that have been traditionally dumped in our lap(or taken on without being asked).
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I agree about no longer playing puppet master, but what is done is done. The fact remains, this horror in Iraq has festered in a power vacuum that we created. We do bare responsibility.
We have no business there even though it's mostly our fault that it's happening.
True,and I get the hands off let them deal with it stance.But I really think this is one mess we created that we have to clean up.This situation could have a more far reaching ramifications.I also really want to see our Commander and Chief show some backbone on this matter and really bring the heat.
whatever its worth, these ISIS ISIL what the fuck ever , are hardcore. They are clear in their objective and appear to have the strength of will to do whatever is necessary to achieve that goal. Rules of engagement do not apply for them and as such rules of engagement shouldnt apply in dealing with them.
If some of the baddest of the bad are saying these guys are fucked up even for them , then acting with extreme prejudice is the only option. Just wonder who will have the fucking balls to do it? I would prefer some other group of Arabs clean up their own backyard. These guys arent gonna stop with just Iraq.
Well-said, mickey. Watching the news just now on this, my fucking god.
Whose fucking god, no fucking god?
Shawshank, earlier my husband said (well, shouted in anger) essentially the same as you. Totally agree.
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Obama ready to bomb Iraq...? To get those 'evil' guys, cause those/these evil guys, are even more 'evil', more 'dangerous' than the previous set of, evil, dangerous people, we bombed, that's our excuse now?
and if/when we kill more innocent people with our involvement, what happens? Surely we create the next generation of 'evil' guys, no doubt being 'worse' than before, perpetual war.
We should close that mega base we have in Iraq, pack our bags and walk away.
Outside of World War II, I never understood why America has to go half way around the globe to settle conflicts. Why dont the neighboring countries and countries in close proximity police their areas? If something was to happen in Canada or Mexico, America is not going to wait for France, Germany, or Australia to come take care of it. With that being said, America is invested not only financially but with the blood of dead soldiers and contractors in Iraq. To sit back and let a radical militia tear through the country and commit atrocities is unacceptable. I'm not going to pretend like I have the answer, but there is a need for action.
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
Once again, I look at it from the side of the innocent kids in this, we can't ignore this because we(USA) are responsible. We fucked with this country (whether justified or not) and now it is in just as bad shape as before.
but we can't allow these religious zealots to run rampant and murder kids just because they happened to be born to parents who are Christian, jewish, muslim, Buddhist...fill in the blank.
unacceptable to stand by and let this happen. violence is the only thing these fucks(ISIS) understand, so unfortunately it is how you have to deal with them.
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What do you do with them? This is a calamity that is rapidly spiralling way out of control.
The U.S. or Isis? - We deal with ISIS, then who deals with us? (the U.S.)
You know, the U.S., the country that invades, bombs, destroys, supports the worst people in the world.
The U.S., the country that dropped Depleted Uranium (DU) in Iraq, causing congenital birth defects,cancers, total immune system collapse.
That was us, we did that, evil? No? Destroying the lives of babies, yet to be born, can it get more 'evil'? What position are we (the U.S.) in to go around talking about how Evil other people are.
and the real kicker, many of these people/groups were created directly or indirectly by U.S. actions around the world.
It's us, we are the bad ones, someone needs to do something about us.
What do you do with them? This is a calamity that is rapidly spiralling way out of control.
The U.S. or Isis? - We deal with ISIS, then who deals with us? (the U.S.)
You know, the U.S., the country that invades, bombs, destroys, supports the worst people in the world.
The U.S., the country that dropped Depleted Uranium (DU) in Iraq, causing congenital birth defects,cancers, total immune system collapse.
That was us, we did that, evil? No? Destroying the lives of babies, yet to be born, can it get more 'evil'? What position are we (the U.S.) in to go around talking about how Evil other people are.
and the real kicker, many of these people/groups were created directly or indirectly by U.S. actions around the world.
It's us, we are the bad ones, someone needs to do something about us.
I was talking about Isis. The US is far from perfect- I`ll give you that.
What do you do with them? This is a calamity that is rapidly spiralling way out of control.
The U.S. or Isis? - We deal with ISIS, then who deals with us? (the U.S.)
You know, the U.S., the country that invades, bombs, destroys, supports the worst people in the world.
The U.S., the country that dropped Depleted Uranium (DU) in Iraq, causing congenital birth defects,cancers, total immune system collapse.
That was us, we did that, evil? No? Destroying the lives of babies, yet to be born, can it get more 'evil'? What position are we (the U.S.) in to go around talking about how Evil other people are.
and the real kicker, many of these people/groups were created directly or indirectly by U.S. actions around the world.
It's us, we are the bad ones, someone needs to do something about us.
Really Idris??Are you fucking kidding me ? You with good conscience how can you even think ISIS and the US are on the same level.Thats just asinine. We are far from perfect,and criticizing our foreign policy and involvement around the world is not only your right but your duty.But those same freedoms that give you the right to do that freely is also one of the big differences that separate us from those lowlife piece of shit terrorist scum bags.They CUT KIDS IN HALF,PUT HEADS ON STICKS and slaughter without remorse just for not being the right type of fundamentalist Muslim.These are some sick fuckers.Dont even try to think we as a country are even close to that kind of filth.Like I said earlier,we are not without our share of mistakes and or faults,but we also do a hell of a lot of good around the world and you better keep that in mind while throwing your own country under the bus.To many of our Brothers and sisters ,children and family have died trying to fight scum like this.You should really check your priorities,they seem out of whack.
Countries who are helping those poor humans yazidiens and other minorities being slaughtered are heroes. Have you seen the videos taken from that area, it's heart breaking.
Countries who are helping those poor humans yazidiens and other minorities being slaughtered are heroes. Have you seen the videos taken from that area, it's heart breaking.
Agreed,but some on here want you to think otherwise.
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
What do you do with them? This is a calamity that is rapidly spiralling way out of control.
The U.S. or Isis? - We deal with ISIS, then who deals with us? (the U.S.)
You know, the U.S., the country that invades, bombs, destroys, supports the worst people in the world.
The U.S., the country that dropped Depleted Uranium (DU) in Iraq, causing congenital birth defects,cancers, total immune system collapse.
That was us, we did that, evil? No? Destroying the lives of babies, yet to be born, can it get more 'evil'? What position are we (the U.S.) in to go around talking about how Evil other people are.
and the real kicker, many of these people/groups were created directly or indirectly by U.S. actions around the world.
It's us, we are the bad ones, someone needs to do something about us.
Really Idris??Are you fucking kidding me ? You with good conscience how can you even think ISIS and the US are on the same level.Thats just asinine. We are far from perfect,and criticizing our foreign policy and involvement around the world is not only your right but your duty.But those same freedoms that give you the right to do that freely is also one of the big differences that separate us from those lowlife piece of shit terrorist scum bags.They CUT KIDS IN HALF,PUT HEADS ON STICKS and slaughter without remorse just for not being the right type of fundamentalist Muslim.These are some sick fuckers.Dont even try to think we as a country are even close to that kind of filth.Like I said earlier,we are not without our share of mistakes and or faults,but we also do a hell of a lot of good around the world and you better keep that in mind while throwing your own country under the bus.To many of our Brothers and sisters ,children and family have died trying to fight scum like this.You should really check your priorities,they seem out of whack.
This is why I supported Ron Paul.
He firmly believes in a non-intervention policy, his critics from both sides were quick to label him as an isolationist. Our interventionist policies are the cause of much of the problems around the world, including having a large hand in what happens in the middle east.
We arm one country with planes to attack another country that we gave tanks to. We arm "rebels" in countries like Libya and Syria, but then when they use those weapons to attack our "friends" we call them terrorists. Our politicians steal from people in this country via the taxation system to send the funds to essentially arm these groups while it directly harms innocent people.
So yeah, I am very strongly saying that we should have never stuck our f-ing noses in it to begin with.
What do you do with them? This is a calamity that is rapidly spiralling way out of control.
The U.S. or Isis? - We deal with ISIS, then who deals with us? (the U.S.)
You know, the U.S., the country that invades, bombs, destroys, supports the worst people in the world.
The U.S., the country that dropped Depleted Uranium (DU) in Iraq, causing congenital birth defects,cancers, total immune system collapse.
That was us, we did that, evil? No? Destroying the lives of babies, yet to be born, can it get more 'evil'? What position are we (the U.S.) in to go around talking about how Evil other people are.
and the real kicker, many of these people/groups were created directly or indirectly by U.S. actions around the world.
It's us, we are the bad ones, someone needs to do something about us.
Really Idris??Are you fucking kidding me ? You with good conscience how can you even think ISIS and the US are on the same level.Thats just asinine. We are far from perfect,and criticizing our foreign policy and involvement around the world is not only your right but your duty.But those same freedoms that give you the right to do that freely is also one of the big differences that separate us from those lowlife piece of shit terrorist scum bags.They CUT KIDS IN HALF,PUT HEADS ON STICKS and slaughter without remorse just for not being the right type of fundamentalist Muslim.These are some sick fuckers.Dont even try to think we as a country are even close to that kind of filth.Like I said earlier,we are not without our share of mistakes and or faults,but we also do a hell of a lot of good around the world and you better keep that in mind while throwing your own country under the bus.To many of our Brothers and sisters ,children and family have died trying to fight scum like this.You should really check your priorities,they seem out of whack.
This is why I supported Ron Paul.
He firmly believes in a non-intervention policy, his critics from both sides were quick to label him as an isolationist. Our interventionist policies are the cause of much of the problems around the world, including having a large hand in what happens in the middle east.
We arm one country with planes to attack another country that we gave tanks to. We arm "rebels" in countries like Libya and Syria, but then when they use those weapons to attack our "friends" we call them terrorists. Our politicians steal from people in this country via the taxation system to send the funds to essentially arm these groups while it directly harms innocent people.
So yeah, I am very strongly saying that we should have never stuck our f-ing noses in it to begin with.
Can't unspill the milk.It now needs cleaning regardless who made the mess.Just doing nothing does not fit with our benevolent moral compass.(this situation I'm referencing only)
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
Ok, then at what point can we walk away for good? What will it take?
Ok, then at what point can we walk away for good? What will it take?
This is the question that I don't believe has an answer. It didn't in 2003 and it doesn't today. I couldn't agree more with you and with Ron Paul that we should not have gone in, but we did. I don't know when we can walk away or what it should look like when we do.
Ok, then at what point can we walk away for good? What will it take?
This is the question that I don't believe has an answer. It didn't in 2003 and it doesn't today. I couldn't agree more with you and with Ron Paul that we should not have gone in, but we did. I don't know when we can walk away or what it should look like when we do.
What do you do with them? This is a calamity that is rapidly spiralling way out of control.
The U.S. or Isis? - We deal with ISIS, then who deals with us? (the U.S.)
You know, the U.S., the country that invades, bombs, destroys, supports the worst people in the world.
The U.S., the country that dropped Depleted Uranium (DU) in Iraq, causing congenital birth defects,cancers, total immune system collapse.
That was us, we did that, evil? No? Destroying the lives of babies, yet to be born, can it get more 'evil'? What position are we (the U.S.) in to go around talking about how Evil other people are.
and the real kicker, many of these people/groups were created directly or indirectly by U.S. actions around the world.
It's us, we are the bad ones, someone needs to do something about us.
Really Idris??Are you fucking kidding me ? You with good conscience how can you even think ISIS and the US are on the same level.Thats just asinine. We are far from perfect,and criticizing our foreign policy and involvement around the world is not only your right but your duty.But those same freedoms that give you the right to do that freely is also one of the big differences that separate us from those lowlife piece of shit terrorist scum bags.They CUT KIDS IN HALF,PUT HEADS ON STICKS and slaughter without remorse just for not being the right type of fundamentalist Muslim.These are some sick fuckers.Dont even try to think we as a country are even close to that kind of filth.Like I said earlier,we are not without our share of mistakes and or faults,but we also do a hell of a lot of good around the world and you better keep that in mind while throwing your own country under the bus.To many of our Brothers and sisters ,children and family have died trying to fight scum like this.You should really check your priorities,they seem out of whack.
This is why I supported Ron Paul.
He firmly believes in a non-intervention policy, his critics from both sides were quick to label him as an isolationist. Our interventionist policies are the cause of much of the problems around the world, including having a large hand in what happens in the middle east.
We arm one country with planes to attack another country that we gave tanks to. We arm "rebels" in countries like Libya and Syria, but then when they use those weapons to attack our "friends" we call them terrorists. Our politicians steal from people in this country via the taxation system to send the funds to essentially arm these groups while it directly harms innocent people.
So yeah, I am very strongly saying that we should have never stuck our f-ing noses in it to begin with.
Here is a question for you: Let's say the US never went to war in Iraq. The US had no hand in the power vacuum in Iraq. Would you support the US's involvement in helping those civilians stuck in the mountains?
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
If we had never got ourselves involved with other issues, Libya/Syria, where we armed these people it probably wouldn't be happening in the first place.
If we had never got ourselves involved with other issues, Libya/Syria, where we armed these people it probably wouldn't be happening in the first place.
You missed the point of the question. I'll just make it a hypothetical.
Facts: 1) A rebel group is going town to town killing and has trapped refugees in the mountains 2) US has no direct or indirect involvement in conflict 3) It is clear cut (100% agreement from all nations) that the rebels are the bad guys and the refugees are the good guys 4) The country involved has asked for US assistance 5) US has the ability to bomb the rebel group and send food and aid to the refugees
With these facts, would your foreign policy views allow for the US to help?
Ok, then at what point can we walk away for good? What will it take?
Great question.I think once we can help prop up a new puppet government,that actually can take care of its own affairs in matters like this for starters. I think "boots on the ground" we can see more hands off in the near future,but our money and silent support for another 50 years at least.As long as we want the oil,and strategic positioning in the region its going to be Avery long time before we quit breast feeding the Iraqi government.
I do think that regardless we would still be involved in this situation on a humanitarian level anyway
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
You missed the point of the question. I'll just make it a hypothetical.
Facts: 1) A rebel group is going town to town killing and has trapped refugees in the mountains 2) US has no direct or indirect involvement in conflict 3) It is clear cut (100% agreement from all nations) that the rebels are the bad guys and the refugees are the good guys 4) The country involved has asked for US assistance 5) US has the ability to bomb the rebel group and send food and aid to the refugees
With these facts, would your foreign policy views allow for the US to help?
I would support humanitarian aid but that is it. No military involvement.
And no, I did not miss the point. Your question wasn't asking about a hypothetical situation. The FACTS are that our involvement in that region of the globe creates radicals. It is more than just Iraq, or are you saying that these violators are Iraqis?
And also there are countries with better logistics that could provide support, the US doesn't hold the patent on humanitarian efforts.
Call me naive, but I wish that, rather than committing to an interventionist vs. isolationist stance, governments could treat these the way they really should: case by case, ruled by logic. Intervention is sometimes good, and sometimes devastatingly bad, but I often wonder if actions of the government are all based on an adherence to the goals promised at the time of electoral campaigning, out of fear of perceived 'flip-flopping'.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Comments
Whose fucking god, no fucking god?
Shawshank, earlier my husband said (well, shouted in anger) essentially the same as you. Totally agree.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
and if/when we kill more innocent people with our involvement, what happens? Surely we create the next generation of 'evil' guys, no doubt being 'worse' than before, perpetual war.
We should close that mega base we have in Iraq, pack our bags and walk away.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
That's not our problem. Of course because the banks, oil, and the MIC run this country nothing will change. 24 years now in Iraq.
we can't ignore this because we(USA) are responsible.
We fucked with this country (whether justified or not) and now it is in just as bad shape as before.
but we can't allow these religious zealots to run rampant and murder kids just because they happened to be born to parents who are Christian, jewish, muslim, Buddhist...fill in the blank.
unacceptable to stand by and let this happen. violence is the only thing these fucks(ISIS) understand, so unfortunately it is how you have to deal with them.
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2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
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2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
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2014- Cincinnati, OH
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What do you do with them? This is a calamity that is rapidly spiralling way out of control.
-
We deal with ISIS, then who deals with us? (the U.S.)
You know, the U.S., the country that invades, bombs, destroys, supports the worst people in the world.
The U.S., the country that dropped Depleted Uranium (DU) in Iraq, causing congenital birth defects,cancers, total immune system collapse.
That was us, we did that, evil? No? Destroying the lives of babies, yet to be born, can it get more 'evil'? What position are we (the U.S.) in to go around talking about how Evil other people are.
and the real kicker, many of these people/groups were created directly or indirectly by U.S. actions around the world.
It's us, we are the bad ones, someone needs to do something about us.
For the record... I`m Canadian.
We are far from perfect,and criticizing our foreign policy and involvement around the world is not only your right but your duty.But those same freedoms that give you the right to do that freely is also one of the big differences that separate us from those lowlife piece of shit terrorist scum bags.They CUT KIDS IN HALF,PUT HEADS ON STICKS and slaughter without remorse just for not being the right type of fundamentalist Muslim.These are some sick fuckers.Dont even try to think we as a country are even close to that kind of filth.Like I said earlier,we are not without our share of mistakes and or faults,but we also do a hell of a lot of good around the world and you better keep that in mind while throwing your own country under the bus.To many of our Brothers and sisters ,children and family have died trying to fight scum like this.You should really check your priorities,they seem out of whack.
This is why I supported Ron Paul.
He firmly believes in a non-intervention policy, his critics from both sides were quick to label him as an isolationist. Our interventionist policies are the cause of much of the problems around the world, including having a large hand in what happens in the middle east.
We arm one country with planes to attack another country that we gave tanks to. We arm "rebels" in countries like Libya and Syria, but then when they use those weapons to attack our "friends" we call them terrorists. Our politicians steal from people in this country via the taxation system to send the funds to essentially arm these groups while it directly harms innocent people.
So yeah, I am very strongly saying that we should have never stuck our f-ing noses in it to begin with.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Facts:
1) A rebel group is going town to town killing and has trapped refugees in the mountains
2) US has no direct or indirect involvement in conflict
3) It is clear cut (100% agreement from all nations) that the rebels are the bad guys and the refugees are the good guys
4) The country involved has asked for US assistance
5) US has the ability to bomb the rebel group and send food and aid to the refugees
With these facts, would your foreign policy views allow for the US to help?
I think "boots on the ground" we can see more hands off in the near future,but our money and silent support for another 50 years at least.As long as we want the oil,and strategic positioning in the region its going to be Avery long time before we quit breast feeding the Iraqi government.
I do think that regardless we would still be involved in this situation on a humanitarian level anyway
I would support humanitarian aid but that is it. No military involvement.
And no, I did not miss the point. Your question wasn't asking about a hypothetical situation. The FACTS are that our involvement in that region of the globe creates radicals. It is more than just Iraq, or are you saying that these violators are Iraqis?
And also there are countries with better logistics that could provide support, the US doesn't hold the patent on humanitarian efforts.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1