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PHILLY (Loosely Related to The Philadelphia Phillies)

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    pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,243
    Bastardo drives me crazy. the type of guy we would send somewhere else and would become dominate.

    still waiting for Cole to have a dominating year some year. if not for those 5 games in oct. 2008...

    got to love this bench. nix, mayberry, galvis - awesome stuff there.
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    The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,364
    The above Cole Hamels comment.....eh, yeah, par for the course I guess

    Jesus...
    chinese-happy.jpg
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    Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,622

    The above Cole Hamels comment.....eh, yeah, par for the course I guess

    Jesus...

    And the best part is that he thinks Ryan Howard is gods gift to philly.
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    Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 16,814

    The above Cole Hamels comment.....eh, yeah, par for the course I guess

    Jesus...

    And the best part is that he thinks Ryan Howard is gods gift to philly.
    And even better - the hypocrisy that we take Howard for granted. Also, on his logic it's ok to take Hamels for granted for winning us a title, but we cannot take Andy Reid for granted?

    It is alll so, so rich. I love it.
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    pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,243
    edited May 2014
    hey guys i swear i didn't write this article but feel free to take shots at this guy too.

    http://www.csnphilly.com/baseball-philadelphia-phillies/cole-hamels-not-living-massive-contract

    Hamels is a very good pitcher but has never been a top 5 pitcher in the league and has never come close to the level of Lee or Halladay in their primes. sorry if you guys don't like those facts.

    and before you guys misunderstand my point i don't give a fuck about his contract but the fact that his era is 44th in the league since signing it doesn't bode real well for him being a dominating pitcher. people act like he is on Lee or Halladay's level and he really never has been other than the 2008 playof run.
    Post edited by pjhawks on
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    WobbieWobbie Posts: 29,560
    pjhawks said:

    hey guys i swear i didn't write this article but feel free to take shots at this guy too.

    http://www.csnphilly.com/baseball-philadelphia-phillies/cole-hamels-not-living-massive-contract

    Hamels is a very good pitcher but has never been a top 5 pitcher in the league and has never come close to the level of Lee or Halladay in their primes. sorry if you guys don't like those facts.

    and before you guys misunderstand my point i don't give a fuck about his contract but the fact that his era is 44th in the league since signing it doesn't bode real well for him being a dominating pitcher. people act like he is on Lee or Halladay's level and he really never has been other than the 2008 playof run.

    I tried to tell you, way back when, that Jonathan Sanchez was just as good :))
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
    Denver 22
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    The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,364
    This just might be the dumbest argument anyone has made in any of these threads.
    chinese-happy.jpg
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    pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,243
    imalive said:

    pjhawks said:

    hey guys i swear i didn't write this article but feel free to take shots at this guy too.

    http://www.csnphilly.com/baseball-philadelphia-phillies/cole-hamels-not-living-massive-contract

    Hamels is a very good pitcher but has never been a top 5 pitcher in the league and has never come close to the level of Lee or Halladay in their primes. sorry if you guys don't like those facts.

    and before you guys misunderstand my point i don't give a fuck about his contract but the fact that his era is 44th in the league since signing it doesn't bode real well for him being a dominating pitcher. people act like he is on Lee or Halladay's level and he really never has been other than the 2008 playof run.

    I tried to tell you, way back when, that Jonathan Sanchez was just as good :))
    uh oh you might have pissed off the hipsters now since you don't agree with them. you could be next on their target list. :-j
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    Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,622
    edited May 2014
    pjhawks said:

    imalive said:

    pjhawks said:

    hey guys i swear i didn't write this article but feel free to take shots at this guy too.

    http://www.csnphilly.com/baseball-philadelphia-phillies/cole-hamels-not-living-massive-contract

    Hamels is a very good pitcher but has never been a top 5 pitcher in the league and has never come close to the level of Lee or Halladay in their primes. sorry if you guys don't like those facts.

    and before you guys misunderstand my point i don't give a fuck about his contract but the fact that his era is 44th in the league since signing it doesn't bode real well for him being a dominating pitcher. people act like he is on Lee or Halladay's level and he really never has been other than the 2008 playof run.

    I tried to tell you, way back when, that Jonathan Sanchez was just as good :))
    uh oh you might have pissed off the hipsters now since you don't agree with them. you could be next on their target list. :-j
    I find it comical someone thinks I am a hipster.

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    pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,243

    This just might be the dumbest argument anyone has made in any of these threads.

    I hope you are referring to Sanchez vs. Hamels and not what I posted. surely you don't think Hamels is as good as Lee or Halladay was in his prime. either way I got a few off the top of my head that are far away worse.

    philly traffic vs. dc traffic?
    Ross Gload over Ryan Howard?
    Eagles defense better than Super Bowl Champs Giants Defense?


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    Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,622
    pjhawks said:

    This just might be the dumbest argument anyone has made in any of these threads.

    I hope you are referring to Sanchez vs. Hamels and not what I posted. surely you don't think Hamels is as good as Lee or Halladay was in his prime. either way I got a few off the top of my head that are far away worse.

    philly traffic vs. dc traffic?
    Ross Gload over Ryan Howard?
    Eagles defense better than Super Bowl Champs Giants Defense?


    Ryan Howard over Ted Williams
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    The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,364
    pjhawks said:

    This just might be the dumbest argument anyone has made in any of these threads.

    I hope you are referring to Sanchez vs. Hamels and not what I posted. surely you don't think Hamels is as good as Lee or Halladay was in his prime. either way I got a few off the top of my head that are far away worse.

    philly traffic vs. dc traffic?
    Ross Gload over Ryan Howard?
    Eagles defense better than Super Bowl Champs Giants Defense?


    huh?
    chinese-happy.jpg
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    JK_LivinJK_Livin South Jersey Posts: 7,364
    X_X
    Alright, alright, alright!
    Tom O.
    "I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
    -The Writer
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    jamminpearlsjamminpearls Posts: 7,078
    Hamels was never worth the deal he got. Ruben gambled and lost once again. He had no other choice but to sign him. Just like the Werth situation. If Ruben pays them the year before,he would have gotten both at much less rates. He gambled and loss just like the Ravens owner did with Flacco. Hamels is a legit #2 pitcher,imo he's not an ACE(ie Verlander,King)
    Go Birds!!!!
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    Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 16,814

    pjhawks said:

    imalive said:

    pjhawks said:

    hey guys i swear i didn't write this article but feel free to take shots at this guy too.

    http://www.csnphilly.com/baseball-philadelphia-phillies/cole-hamels-not-living-massive-contract

    Hamels is a very good pitcher but has never been a top 5 pitcher in the league and has never come close to the level of Lee or Halladay in their primes. sorry if you guys don't like those facts.

    and before you guys misunderstand my point i don't give a fuck about his contract but the fact that his era is 44th in the league since signing it doesn't bode real well for him being a dominating pitcher. people act like he is on Lee or Halladay's level and he really never has been other than the 2008 playof run.

    I tried to tell you, way back when, that Jonathan Sanchez was just as good :))
    uh oh you might have pissed off the hipsters now since you don't agree with them. you could be next on their target list. :-j
    I find it comical someone thinks I am a hipster.

    Same here. I swear this dude has to be one of the precious elite of philly.comments.
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    The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,364
    He's ranked in the top 10 of just about every statistical category that matters for a starting pitcher year in, year out.

    I guess I'm missing something here...
    chinese-happy.jpg
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    JK_LivinJK_Livin South Jersey Posts: 7,364
    This is getting bad.
    Alright, alright, alright!
    Tom O.
    "I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
    -The Writer
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    pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,243

    He's ranked in the top 10 of just about every statistical category that matters for a starting pitcher year in, year out.

    I guess I'm missing something here...

    of course you are. you missed the part of the story i posted where he is 44th in era since signing his contract.
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    The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,364
    edited May 2014
    pjhawks said:

    He's ranked in the top 10 of just about every statistical category that matters for a starting pitcher year in, year out.

    I guess I'm missing something here...

    of course you are. you missed the part of the story i posted where he is 44th in era since signing his contract.
    the crux of your argument was that he has never had a dominating year. i'm pointing out that he is consistently one of the top 10 pitchers in the game year in, year out. he struggled a bit last year, obviously but so did a lot of high priced players on this team.

    i don't get how people can under appreciate that kind of production.
    Post edited by The Juggler on
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    pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,243

    pjhawks said:

    He's ranked in the top 10 of just about every statistical category that matters for a starting pitcher year in, year out.

    I guess I'm missing something here...

    of course you are. you missed the part of the story i posted where he is 44th in era since signing his contract.
    the crux of your argument was that he has never had a dominating year. i'm pointing out that he is consistently one of the top 10 pitchers in the game year in, year out. he struggled a bit last year, obviously but so did a lot of high priced players on this team.

    i don't get how people can under appreciate that kind of production.
    I called him a 'very good pitcher' above. not sure how that is considered under appreciating him. can you pick a year where he has been dominant? his highest cy young rank has been 5th. he hasn't been dominant or better than a top 5 pitcher in the NL for a full season and probably never top 10 in the majors. not a rip on him just a legitimate observation. very good starting pitcher just below the elite. some people like to put him elite because of the 2008 playoffs.

    do you like Ben Revere too or is it ok to criticize him? have you ever seen a starting center fielder misread more fly balls than this guy? it's not really as hard as he makes it seem.
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    The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,364
    he's been pretty damn dominant for 5 of his full 7 years in the league. and his rookie year, was one of the best in franchise history....

    again--- a top 10 pitcher year in, year out, don't see the need to even bring this up. the guy starts off slow ever year. and every year people like you talk about this nonsense.

    top 10 era--4 times
    top 10 wins--3 times
    top 10 whip---4 times...lead league in 08
    top 10 hits per 9---4 times
    top 10 walks per 9 ---4 times
    top 10 ko's per 9--3 times
    top 10 innings pitched---4 times
    top 10 strikeouts---6 times
    top 10 complete games---4 times
    top 10 shutouts---3 times....lead league in 09
    top 10 strikeout/walk ratio---7 times....his entire career, minus rookie season

    and he's only 30 and right in the prime of his career. the fact that the phils have had 2 other pitchers who are considered among the best of their generation should not alter your perception of just how great cole hamels has been over his career.



    chinese-happy.jpg
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    pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,243

    he's been pretty damn dominant for 5 of his full 7 years in the league. and his rookie year, was one of the best in franchise history....

    again--- a top 10 pitcher year in, year out, don't see the need to even bring this up. the guy starts off slow ever year. and every year people like you talk about this nonsense.

    top 10 era--4 times
    top 10 wins--3 times
    top 10 whip---4 times...lead league in 08
    top 10 hits per 9---4 times
    top 10 walks per 9 ---4 times
    top 10 ko's per 9--3 times
    top 10 innings pitched---4 times
    top 10 strikeouts---6 times
    top 10 complete games---4 times
    top 10 shutouts---3 times....lead league in 09
    top 10 strikeout/walk ratio---7 times....his entire career, minus rookie season

    and he's only 30 and right in the prime of his career. the fact that the phils have had 2 other pitchers who are considered among the best of their generation should not alter your perception of just how great cole hamels has been over his career.



    YEAR▲ W▼ L▼ ERA▼ GS▼CG▼SHO▼IP▼ SO▼WHIP▼
    2007 15 5 3.39 28 28 2 0 183.1 177 1.12
    2008 14 10 3.09 33 33 2 2 227.1 196 1.08
    2009 10 11 4.32 32 32 2 2 193.2 168 1.29
    2010 12 11 3.06 33 33 1 0 208.2 211 1.18
    2011 14 9 2.79 32 31 3 0 216 194 0.99
    2012 17 6 3.05 31 31 2 2 215.1 216 1.12
    2013 8 14 3.60 33 33 1 0 220 202 1.16

    can you tell me which of the 5 seasons above you consider dominating? he has had only one season with an era under 3.05 which 9 guys had last year in the NL. was Shelby Miller a dominating pitcher last year? he was 15-9 with an era of 3.06 and a whip of 1.21.

    maybe our definitions are just different but those numbers above to me scream very good but never (or maybe once) dominate.
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    Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 16,814
    Jeags -

    Why in God's name you humor this mouth breather is beyond me.

    Though, hilarious.
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    The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,364

    Jeags -

    Why in God's name you humor this mouth breather is beyond me.

    Though, hilarious.

    Haha

    I don't know...boredom, I guess.
    chinese-happy.jpg
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    jamminpearlsjamminpearls Posts: 7,078

    Jeags -

    Why in God's name you humor this mouth breather is beyond me.

    Though, hilarious.

    Haha

    I don't know...boredom, I guess.
    Is Hamels a full blown ace Jeags? I personally think Cole is in the 2nd tier. The top tier would be King,Verlander,Scherzer,Jose Fernandez,Wainwright,Grienke,Kershaw,Darvish,Tanaka,Harvey,Lee. Being a 2nd tier pitcher means your damn good. But does it mean your worth 25 a year?
    Go Birds!!!!
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    pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,243

    Jeags -

    Why in God's name you humor this mouth breather is beyond me.

    Though, hilarious.

    Haha

    I don't know...boredom, I guess.
    Is Hamels a full blown ace Jeags? I personally think Cole is in the 2nd tier. The top tier would be King,Verlander,Scherzer,Jose Fernandez,Wainwright,Grienke,Kershaw,Darvish,Tanaka,Harvey,Lee. Being a 2nd tier pitcher means your damn good. But does it mean your worth 25 a year?
    well he didn't answer my simple question about which of Cole's 5 seasons he considers dominate so i imagine he won't answer your question either.

    i agree with pretty much all those you list although Tanaka I'd say to be determined. I also think Gio Gonzalez might be better than him now as well.
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    Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 16,814
    Both of these knuckleheads are arguing apples to oranges without considering how much pitching is paid at an extremely exorbitant premium.
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    pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,243

    Both of these knuckleheads are arguing apples to oranges without considering how much pitching is paid at an extremely exorbitant premium.

    clearly you missed the part where i said i didn't a fuck about his contract.

    so do you think he is better than any of those pitchers listed above? and do you think Juggler was right in saying he has been dominate for 5 years?

    pretty simple yes/no questions. ill wait for your answers although i'm still waiting on Juggler to tell me which of the 5 years he thinks were 'dominate'.


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    JK_LivinJK_Livin South Jersey Posts: 7,364
    I wish Trout was here on a weekend.
    Alright, alright, alright!
    Tom O.
    "I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
    -The Writer
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    pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,243
    JK_Livin said:

    I wish Trout was here on a weekend.

    i'm heading down to the wednesday afternoon game. hopefully weather will be good. kind of a screwed up schedule with only 2 games and one being a mid-week afternoon.
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