Agreed about CPS. Interesting though what you say about "not the safest place for family entertainment". That's clearly true, but just like everything in life it's about looking realistically at the risks. Much of my comfort in taking my kids to shows comes from a couple of prior decades of going to shows without kids. As a woman, I dislike at shows all the same things I'd want to protect my kids from: excessive noise (I always have earplugs), open drug use (which, after 1,000+ shows (no not exaggerating) I can honestly say I've only seen in the open like 5 times beyond weed smoke, and since I had kids I rarely am in a bldg where smoking is allowed anyway); belligerent obnoxious people (some high/drunk, some not); and fighting. I have easily been able to avoid/ move away from al of those when encountered, but more importantly. I don't encounter them often at all. Never been thrown up on or peed on, other than my kids. So if that's been my experience 97% of the time, and the other3% I've been able to ditch the annoying people and resume enjoyment of the show, where is it even likely at all anything unsafe or bad will happen with my kids?
I appreciate your opinion, just trying to get to the root of what you view as so unsafe about it?
Next time you go to a show, stop and buy a lotto ticket, b/c you've been excessively lucky when it comes to attending shows.
My experience at shows reads pretty much the opposite
Noise is a gimme.
Always clouds of weed smoke, and I almost always see a person or 10 that looks completely out of it, clearly beyond stoned and that's just the obvious people.
I higher concentration of belligerent/wanna be badasses than at about any other place I'd go, except my small town hick bar.
I haven't been peed on or puked on, but heard enough stories that I feel like I have and to realize there's a chance of it happening.
Outdoor show where you can stay away from just about anybody else, reasonable. Indoor arena show where all that concentrated into one building with 20000 other people. Seems kinda iffy.
After reading a bunch of stories about how rowdy football games get, I wouldn't take my kids to that either.
Agreed about CPS. Interesting though what you say about "not the safest place for family entertainment". That's clearly true, but just like everything in life it's about looking realistically at the risks. Much of my comfort in taking my kids to shows comes from a couple of prior decades of going to shows without kids. As a woman, I dislike at shows all the same things I'd want to protect my kids from: excessive noise (I always have earplugs), open drug use (which, after 1,000+ shows (no not exaggerating) I can honestly say I've only seen in the open like 5 times beyond weed smoke, and since I had kids I rarely am in a bldg where smoking is allowed anyway); belligerent obnoxious people (some high/drunk, some not); and fighting. I have easily been able to avoid/ move away from al of those when encountered, but more importantly. I don't encounter them often at all. Never been thrown up on or peed on, other than my kids. So if that's been my experience 97% of the time, and the other3% I've been able to ditch the annoying people and resume enjoyment of the show, where is it even likely at all anything unsafe or bad will happen with my kids?
I appreciate your opinion, just trying to get to the root of what you view as so unsafe about it?
Next time you go to a show, stop and buy a lotto ticket, b/c you've been excessively lucky when it comes to attending shows.
My experience at shows reads pretty much the opposite
Noise is a gimme.
Always clouds of weed smoke, and I almost always see a person or 10 that looks completely out of it, clearly beyond stoned and that's just the obvious people.
I higher concentration of belligerent/wanna be badasses than at about any other place I'd go, except my small town hick bar.
I haven't been peed on or puked on, but heard enough stories that I feel like I have and to realize there's a chance of it happening.
The 3 year old and his dad sat directly in front of me.
We had read his post earlier in the day and we planned to keep an eye out for them. So when they ended up in the two seats in front of us it was pretty funny. I chatted with both of them. Told him I read his post online. I admitted that my gut reaction was to immediately cast judgment on him, but as I really thought about it my opinion changed. I remember Eddie's first daughter being held side stage for much of the Canadian tour in '05. She was about the same age as this boy. I shared this with the dad.
Should Eddie's parenting choices prove you haters to be wrong? Probably, but I will also tell you this boy was very mature for his age. He told me he begged his dad to go to the show. He told me his new favorite song is Sirens (half of you will hate the 3 yr old now).
The kids highlight of the night had to be Elderly Woman. Ed turned to face us in the back. I'm pretty sure the kid was happy we weren't being subjected to Last Kiss. His dad hoisted him over his head and the boy had both hands high for the big "helloooo!".
Overall dad did a great job. He snuck the lad out 2 songs early to beat the crowd. Also while chatting pre-show he gave me some great tips on how to raise a pj fan. I have a 14 month old son and I am afraid that the inundation of "high fructose" pop music will ruin his taste in music before I can properly pollute his brain with the good stuff. He said the softer acoustic stuff is a good intro for the little ones, but the real game changer has been the dvd's of Imagine and Water on the Road (the boys favorite).
Those are the facts folks. So I guess we have a winner.
Thank you so much for posting the actual result. If I'd been sitting in front of you you would have seen much the same (except we don't have Lightning Bolt yet so they wouldn't know Sirens ).
I have seen bad parenting at some concerts. But I've seen a lot more of it at the supermarket and playground. People who know their kids and care most about them being ok, their kids will be fine at shows. Because I matter how much I may wan to hear "Immortality" or the new songs live, if my kid is having a bad time or I can't escape weed smoke (neither of which has ever happened), then I'm out. But because they enjoy it, when we can we all go.
Original poster, so glad you took your son anyway and sounds like he had a great time. If you raise happy, healthy safe kids, you rock as a parent. Don't let ANYONE tell you otherwise, especially if they can't explain specifics about why every. Single. Kid. Is allegedly in morbid danger at every. Single. Concert.
Too many people make blanket "No, never!" Comments and limit their own perspectives and views of what is possible without even realizing it. I'm totally open to hearing specific reasons/examples of why someone thinks something is a horrible idea, but pages and pages of "You suck as a parent! Don't forget to crowd surf your kid! I hope CPS gets called on you!" is useless and doesn't make any real argument for why it's supposedly so awful.
The 3 year old and his dad sat directly in front of me.
We had read his post earlier in the day and we planned to keep an eye out for them. So when they ended up in the two seats in front of us it was pretty funny. I chatted with both of them. Told him I read his post online. I admitted that my gut reaction was to immediately cast judgment on him, but as I really thought about it my opinion changed. I remember Eddie's first daughter being held side stage for much of the Canadian tour in '05. She was about the same age as this boy. I shared this with the dad.
Should Eddie's parenting choices prove you haters to be wrong? Probably, but I will also tell you this boy was very mature for his age. He told me he begged his dad to go to the show. He told me his new favorite song is Sirens (half of you will hate the 3 yr old now).
The kids highlight of the night had to be Elderly Woman. Ed turned to face us in the back. I'm pretty sure the kid was happy we weren't being subjected to Last Kiss. His dad hoisted him over his head and the boy had both hands high for the big "helloooo!".
Overall dad did a great job. He snuck the lad out 2 songs early to beat the crowd. Also while chatting pre-show he gave me some great tips on how to raise a pj fan. I have a 14 month old son and I am afraid that the inundation of "high fructose" pop music will ruin his taste in music before I can properly pollute his brain with the good stuff. He said the softer acoustic stuff is a good intro for the little ones, but the real game changer has been the dvd's of Imagine and Water on the Road (the boys favorite).
Those are the facts folks. So I guess we have a winner.
Great to hear how it all went down. A nice break from the judgmental drivel he received in this thread.
JH5066, chill the fuck out you fucken loud mouth. I made a statement about you being an idiot for taking your "baby" "child" whatever the case is and I STAND by it. Go change some diapers and buy some tampoons mr/mrs super sensitive. I give the bad brains a bad name or something to matter you said??? Well shit, you give parents a bad name. And I raised my sis since she's been a child and guess what loud mouth, I took her to her first concert at the age of 16 (the boss). And in nov she'll be going to see paramore at MSG at the age of 17. Does it make me a better parent/guardian then you, ABSOFUCKENLUTELY! You want to continue this conversation, I'll be at both Brooklyn and both Philly shows WITHOUT my sister.
I don't know why everyone's bitching about this... the kid is 3 and he knows what he likes.
Like my 4 year old loves to go to the strip clubs with me. I mean, what little kids doesn't like giant boobs, right? And it's a great way to introduce him to great classic band like AC/DC and Van Halen because they always play 'Shook Me All Night Long' an 'Hot For Teacher' about 20 times a night.
I'm thinking of taking him to the 'Lamb Of God' gig out in the desert next Summer because it's never too early to introduce him to the 'Wall of Death'.
I don't know why eveyone else is having a tizzy fit... nothing screams Rock And Roll like an OshKosh jumper that says, 'Rock The Fuck OUT!' on it.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
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I don't know why everyone's bitching about this... the kid is 3 and he knows what he likes.
Like my 4 year old loves to go to the strip clubs with me. I mean, what little kids doesn't like giant boobs, right? And it's a great way to introduce him to great classic band like AC/DC and Van Halen because they always play 'Shook Me All Night Long' an 'Hot For Teacher' about 20 times a night.
I'm thinking of taking him to the 'Lamb Of God' gig out in the desert next Summer because it's never too early to introduce him to the 'Wall of Death'.
I don't know why eveyone else is having a tizzy fit... nothing screams Rock And Roll like an OshKosh jumper that says, 'Rock The Fuck OUT!' on it.
JH5066, chill the fuck out you fucken loud mouth. I made a statement about you being an idiot for taking your "baby" "child" whatever the case is and I STAND by it. Go change some diapers and buy some tampoons mr/mrs super sensitive. I give the bad brains a bad name or something to matter you said??? Well shit, you give parents a bad name. And I raised my sis since she's been a child and guess what loud mouth, I took her to her first concert at the age of 16 (the boss). And in nov she'll be going to see paramore at MSG at the age of 17. Does it make me a better parent/guardian then you, ABSOFUCKENLUTELY! You want to continue this conversation, I'll be at both Brooklyn and both Philly shows WITHOUT my sister.
I'm not sure why, but it seems to be a trend for parents to not have 'date night' and leave the kids home. Some events are sacred for adults, I know that PJ shows are! And I know that my kid is a lot safer at home than me dragging her around to shows. I wonder if there is no one to babysit, or that some people want to look like the 'cool parent', when in reality, 'cool parents' aren't very good at parenting at all. Because being a 'friend' of your child is not parenting at all.
Well....
While I think taking a three-year-old -- any three-year-old -- to a PJ show is bad idea, I don't quite agree with what you wrote here.
We took our boys with us to Mansfield 2 2008, all four Spectrum shows, and Newark 2010. They were nine and almost-twelve at the first show. We had seen PJ in Camden, left the boys home with a sitter, and decided it was easier and cheaper to take them with us to Mansfield. Our sitter was very sweet but, no kidding, one time she was watching the boys and our house was struck by lightning, and she did not even realize what had happened. The kids were safer with us than they were at home being watched by a teenager.
I've discussed our thought process behind taking them with us before. We never would have taken our older child to a PJ show at nine -- he just was not ready. Our younger child is more mature and is a musician, so it was the right time. And we all wore ear protection (myself included). We explained that it would be very loud, people would be smoking all kinds of things and using colorful language, and it was all good.
We all had a great time and the boys got to see first-hand that getting shitfaced or using drugs makes you really stupid -- a message they have internalized, I am happy to say. The dude at Philly 1 who kept saying "Everything's covered with moss!" and needed the help of his buddies to leave the Spectrum made a lasting impression. I'd rather have an open dialogue with my kids about drinking and drugs than to just say "those are taboo." No, I am not permissive, not at all, I just believe in educating them so they can make good decisions.
This time, younger son said he'd rather not go and the older one said he'd like us to have that time to ourselves, so our teenagers are staying home.
As for taking little kids, I'm really against it. I think small children easily can be overwhelmed in such situations, and the impressions they get can be confusing. It's not even on the same scale, but my parents often took me along to the movies with them when I was little. I saw "Tommy" when it came out -- I was six years old, and that movie gave me nightmares. I was taken along to see "The Deer Hunter" in, I think, fourth grade -- front-row seats, at that. I should not have been there -- it was not educational, it was overwhelming and confusing.
I don't think 9 and 12 is that young. I think people are mostly talking about kids younger than that.
Honest question, just put of curiosity: how would the kids have been any safer with you than with the babysitter while in a house struck by lightning? The danger is sudden, unavoidable, and over quickly. Unless the babysitter's reaction was to get the kids to run outside holding metal pipes or to hide under a tall tree, or doesn't know what to do if there is a fire, I don't understand how leaving them with a babysitter increased the threat in that situation.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Maybe after the show you guys could hit up a strip club, get him a lapdance or a private show in the champagne room. When you get home, unwind with a spliff and chat about the show.
I think forced sterilisation would be a good option for you, what a fucking mook!!
You deserve to have Children's Aid/Child Services called.
As someone who has worked as a Supervisor for child protective services for years... And also as the previous poster who took her 1st kid to Coachella at 18 months, I know a lot about child welfare and about taking kids to shows. Please do tell me, what in the world is it about taking a 3 year old to 3 or 4 shows a year that actually amounts to a call to CPS? As long as the child is ok, it's not a regular occurrence, the child has ear protection, and the parents are watching their child, keeping them safe and getting them anything they need, what about this scenario amounts to child abuse or neglect in your opinion?
Seriously, for all you "Your a horrible parent!" posters, if you really think this is so bad, look up your local child welfare agency. Find a non-emergency number and call them. Tell them you have a general question about whether taking a 3 yr old to a rock concert with ear protection is considered abuse or neglect. Report back with what they say, and for anyone who says they said yes, say what city/town/county you called. I've worked for CPS in 3 states and without some other disturbing details (Dad was smoking weed, mom let the kid wander off, the kid was crying and screaming and the parents ignored them, etc) there would be nothing about this that we would screen in (send to the Investigations unit).
So what exactly do you think fits the definition of abuse and neglect?
As a psychologist with years of experience as a mandated reporter I know first hand how idiotic some operators at CPS can be an have often questioned their training over the years. I could list pages of examples of this. Just because you worked for CPS doesn't mean you're right. As someone with expertise in child development I have to hope someone working in an entry level position can make the appropriate affirmation to investigate the concern.
You're taking your 18 month old to rock concerts? Awesome. Good to know we have such highly qualified people working for CPS.
I don't know why everyone's bitching about this... the kid is 3 and he knows what he likes.
Like my 4 year old loves to go to the strip clubs with me. I mean, what little kids doesn't like giant boobs, right? And it's a great way to introduce him to great classic band like AC/DC and Van Halen because they always play 'Shook Me All Night Long' an 'Hot For Teacher' about 20 times a night.
I'm thinking of taking him to the 'Lamb Of God' gig out in the desert next Summer because it's never too early to introduce him to the 'Wall of Death'.
I don't know why eveyone else is having a tizzy fit... nothing screams Rock And Roll like an OshKosh jumper that says, 'Rock The Fuck OUT!' on it.
As many have said in different ways...there isn't a three yearl old in the world that enjoys sitting or standing in one place for 3 hours. Get a sitter.
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
Please find and read the posts about people bringing their infants and toddlers to the Wrigley Pre show merch waiting extravaganza.
There was a guy behind me(at wrigley merch lines outside) that had two babies in a stroller who were crying for 3 hours straight.. he would just tell them to shut up and stop crying.. THAT is abuse. Especially on a hot day like that... wow.
I don't think this case of bringing a willing and able kid to a show who clearly knows what is going on , is abuse. If the kid starts crying about the noise and standing, and the parent doesnt take action.. then that is when you can judge; not before.
2009: Philly Night 2
2010: MSG Night 1 and Night 2
2011: Eddie Vedder Solo in Philly, PJ20 Alpine Valley Day 1 and Day 2.
2012: Berlin Night 1(7/4)
2013: Wrigley Field, Philly 1 and 2
Glad I didnt listen to most here. My son went and had a great time! In fact, it was incredibly positive, from entering the venue, using bathroom & concessions, & most of all enjoying the show at our seats. I was very impressed with how receptive everyone was & interacted with my son. Glad most here don't represent most Pearl Jan fans.
Chances this is a complete lie? 70%.
So, snipes824, what now after my re-cap?
90 shows and counting...some of my favs: Randall's Island night 2, Milwaukee '95 night 2, Hawaii '06, St Johns '05, PJ20!
I don't know why everyone's bitching about this... the kid is 3 and he knows what he likes.
Like my 4 year old loves to go to the strip clubs with me. I mean, what little kids doesn't like giant boobs, right? And it's a great way to introduce him to great classic band like AC/DC and Van Halen because they always play 'Shook Me All Night Long' an 'Hot For Teacher' about 20 times a night.
I'm thinking of taking him to the 'Lamb Of God' gig out in the desert next Summer because it's never too early to introduce him to the 'Wall of Death'.
I don't know why eveyone else is having a tizzy fit... nothing screams Rock And Roll like an OshKosh jumper that says, 'Rock The Fuck OUT!' on it.
In whose best interest is a parent acting when they take a child under 10 to a concert like this?
Seriously, who are you indulging here?
Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!
Another thing that hasn't been talked about here (I think), is the fact that some parents bring their kids to gain attention from Eddie. We know these folks were there at the EV solo shows, who's to say they're not trying the same at PJ shows? Let's not forget those who use their kids to get some sort of recognition from the singer. I believe some parent had a terrible experience with Pete Townsend yelling at him who attempted to get his attention with his kid.
My 5 year old cried and bitched all night tonight because his brother dropped 70 on him in Xbox college football. You don't want him scoring that much, then stop him. Quit your damn crying.
Thank God neither one of those two are going to the show with me next week
I've met Rob
DEGENERATE FUK
This place is dead
"THERE ARE NO CLIQUES, ONLY THOSE WHO DON'T JOIN THE FUN" - Empty circa 2015
Just want to provide an update on my child. 2 days post show and he has not shown any signs of post-traumatic stress (see below). He has only expressed how much fun it was to family and friends with specific details about the show- telling that they played Pendulum first, along wtih MYM, DTE, Yellow Moon...Wait! I'm being somewhat dishonest...He has experienced some slight disappointment in not getting a tambourine from Eddie and for RITFW, Unthought Known, and Black not being played. But, he's handling this disappointment well, saying, "maybe next time!"
Thanks to all who have PM'd me and posted positive/supportive messages! It means MUCH more than the baseless negativity!
One of the following related to traumatic events:
•persistent avoidance of activities, places, or physical reminders
•people, conversations, or interpersonal situations that arouse recollections
•diminished interest or participation in significant activities such as play
•socially withdrawn behavior
•persistent reduction in expression of positive emotions
Two or more of the following:
•irritable, angry, or aggressive behavior, including extreme temper tantrums
•hypervigilance
•exaggerated startle response
•problems with concentration
•difficulty falling or staying asleep or restless sleep
Agreed about CPS. Interesting though what you say about "not the safest place for family entertainment". That's clearly true, but just like everything in life it's about looking realistically at the risks. Much of my comfort in taking my kids to shows comes from a couple of prior decades of going to shows without kids. As a woman, I dislike at shows all the same things I'd want to protect my kids from: excessive noise (I always have earplugs), open drug use (which, after 1,000+ shows (no not exaggerating) I can honestly say I've only seen in the open like 5 times beyond weed smoke, and since I had kids I rarely am in a bldg where smoking is allowed anyway); belligerent obnoxious people (some high/drunk, some not); and fighting. I have easily been able to avoid/ move away from al of those when encountered, but more importantly. I don't encounter them often at all. Never been thrown up on or peed on, other than my kids. So if that's been my experience 97% of the time, and the other3% I've been able to ditch the annoying people and resume enjoyment of the show, where is it even likely at all anything unsafe or bad will happen with my kids?
I appreciate your opinion, just trying to get to the root of what you view as so unsafe about it?
Next time you go to a show, stop and buy a lotto ticket, b/c you've been excessively lucky when it comes to attending shows.
My experience at shows reads pretty much the opposite
Noise is a gimme.
Always clouds of weed smoke, and I almost always see a person or 10 that looks completely out of it, clearly beyond stoned and that's just the obvious people.
I higher concentration of belligerent/wanna be badasses than at about any other place I'd go, except my small town hick bar.
I haven't been peed on or puked on, but heard enough stories that I feel like I have and to realize there's a chance of it happening.
Outdoor show where you can stay away from just about anybody else, reasonable. Indoor arena show where all that concentrated into one building with 20000 other people. Seems kinda iffy.
After reading a bunch of stories about how rowdy football games get, I wouldn't take my kids to that either.
You know, I hear what you're saying, and I might believe I have just been lucky... but the fact that I'm up to close to 1,200 shows now (I śtopped counting at 1,000 and that was years ago) tells me it's not just luck. Now it may very well have to do with WHICH rock concerts I see: every one from Van Halen and the Clash and the Stones baçk in the day to PJ, REM, Radiohead, Airborne Toxic Event and the Frames today ALL have relatively respectful audiences, with total idiots as the exception, not at all the rule. I've met so many amazing people at shows, and truly few jerks.
1,200 shows with only maybe 2 or 3 really crappy experiences (and none of then dangerous, just annoying) is pretty good odds I'd say
I'd equate a Pearl Jam concert to an R-rated movie. It's an adult experience. I think there's an age when the child has shown a certain maturity and proven they can go with an adult. My daughter has been wanting to go to a Pearl Jam show for years, but this is the first time I'm taking her, when she's going on 15.
I just can't get my head around the parenting decision or the perceived benefits of taking a child under 12.
when my now 14 year old was 7 she asked to see JET.. so I took her. it was incredibly loud and she lasted less than a handful of songs. no biggie.. however the ONLY reason I took her was cause SHE asked.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
JH5066, chill the fuck out you fucken loud mouth. I made a statement about you being an idiot for taking your "baby" "child" whatever the case is and I STAND by it. Go change some diapers and buy some tampoons mr/mrs super sensitive. I give the bad brains a bad name or something to matter you said??? Well shit, you give parents a bad name. And I raised my sis since she's been a child and guess what loud mouth, I took her to her first concert at the age of 16 (the boss). And in nov she'll be going to see paramore at MSG at the age of 17. Does it make me a better parent/guardian then you, ABSOFUCKENLUTELY! You want to continue this conversation, I'll be at both Brooklyn and both Philly shows WITHOUT my sister.
A good deal of your post is unintelligible, but from what little I can make out I gather you didn't like my response to you? I'm especially intrigued by "tampoons" - is that like a cross between a tampon and a typhoon, and if so, what the heck do you do with it after you buy it?
As for continuing this conversation, judging by the hostility of your response, I'm guessing the reason you disapprove of people taking young kids to shows so strongly is that you know how YOU act when you're hyped up, so rain check on meeting up. But I do sincerely hope you have a great time, and I mean that. Just don't do it by cursing out some parent there with their kid who has no idea why you are freaking out at them. (I'll be in Philly but not with the kids, so if you do yell at someone with kids it won't be me... Not at that show, anyway.) Enjoy!
Maybe after the show you guys could hit up a strip club, get him a lapdance or a private show in the champagne room. When you get home, unwind with a spliff and chat about the show.
I think forced sterilisation would be a good option for you, what a fucking mook!!
You deserve to have Children's Aid/Child Services called.
As someone who has worked as a Supervisor for child protective services for years... And also as the previous poster who took her 1st kid to Coachella at 18 months, I know a lot about child welfare and about taking kids to shows. Please do tell me, what in the world is it about taking a 3 year old to 3 or 4 shows a year that actually amounts to a call to CPS? As long as the child is ok, it's not a regular occurrence, the child has ear protection, and the parents are watching their child, keeping them safe and getting them anything they need, what about this scenario amounts to child abuse or neglect in your opinion?
Seriously, for all you "Your a horrible parent!" posters, if you really think this is so bad, look up your local child welfare agency. Find a non-emergency number and call them. Tell them you have a general question about whether taking a 3 yr old to a rock concert with ear protection is considered abuse or neglect. Report back with what they say, and for anyone who says they said yes, say what city/town/county you called. I've worked for CPS in 3 states and without some other disturbing details (Dad was smoking weed, mom let the kid wander off, the kid was crying and screaming and the parents ignored them, etc) there would be nothing about this that we would screen in (send to the Investigations unit).
So what exactly do you think fits the definition of abuse and neglect?
As a psychologist with years of experience as a mandated reporter I know first hand how idiotic some operators at CPS can be an have often questioned their training over the years. I could list pages of examples of this. Just because you worked for CPS doesn't mean you're right. As someone with expertise in child development I have to hope someone working in an entry level position can make the appropriate affirmation to investigate the concern.
You're taking your 18 month old to rock concerts? Awesome. Good to know we have such highly qualified people working for CPS.
FINALLY we have another professional to weigh in: an experienced psychologist with years of mandated reporter experience! Let's just cut through your petty insults and get to the point: as an experienced mandated reporter, what about the scenario originally presented, if called in to the hotline (3yr old at PJ show, with ear protection, and no other obvious negative factors like parental drug use or leaving the kid alone in the seats) meets the threshold definition for either abuse or neglect? On what basis would you screen it in, and what would your actual "highly qualified entry level person" put down in writing as the "appropriate affirmation to investigate the concern"? And last, just to make sure you're not making anything up, what jurisdiction's child welfare code are you using as your standard?
As someone who has worked as a Supervisor for child protective services for years... And also as the previous poster who took her 1st kid to Coachella at 18 months, I know a lot about child welfare and about taking kids to shows. Please do tell me, what in the world is it about taking a 3 year old to 3 or 4 shows a year that actually amounts to a call to CPS? As long as the child is ok, it's not a regular occurrence, the child has ear protection, and the parents are watching their child, keeping them safe and getting them anything they need, what about this scenario amounts to child abuse or neglect in your opinion?
Seriously, for all you "Your a horrible parent!" posters, if you really think this is so bad, look up your local child welfare agency. Find a non-emergency number and call them. Tell them you have a general question about whether taking a 3 yr old to a rock concert with ear protection is considered abuse or neglect. Report back with what they say, and for anyone who says they said yes, say what city/town/county you called. I've worked for CPS in 3 states and without some other disturbing details (Dad was smoking weed, mom let the kid wander off, the kid was crying and screaming and the parents ignored them, etc) there would be nothing about this that we would screen in (send to the Investigations unit).
So what exactly do you think fits the definition of abuse and neglect?
As a psychologist with years of experience as a mandated reporter I know first hand how idiotic some operators at CPS can be an have often questioned their training over the years. I could list pages of examples of this. Just because you worked for CPS doesn't mean you're right. As someone with expertise in child development I have to hope someone working in an entry level position can make the appropriate affirmation to investigate the concern.
You're taking your 18 month old to rock concerts? Awesome. Good to know we have such highly qualified people working for CPS.
FINALLY we have another professional to weigh in: an experienced psychologist with years of mandated reporter experience! Let's just cut through your petty insults and get to the point: as an experienced mandated reporter, what about the scenario originally presented, if called in to the hotline (3yr old at PJ show, with ear protection, and no other obvious negative factors like parental drug use or leaving the kid alone in the seats) meets the threshold definition for either abuse or neglect? On what basis would you screen it in, and what would your actual "highly qualified entry level person" put down in writing as the "appropriate affirmation to investigate the concern"? And last, just to make sure you're not making anything up, what jurisdiction's child welfare code are you using as your standard?
Looking forward to that expert answer on this... and it probably goes without saying that no response = you know it doesn't meet the definition. But you knew that, didn't you...
Any adult with a single ounce of common sense knows taking a 3 year old to a rock concert is beyond insane. I don't care what rationalizations anyone makes or what did or didn't happen to your kid that night, it still is a horrendous idea.
Also, get over your narcissistic self, your kid didn't want to go the show, you wanted your kid to go to the show.
BTW, when can we expect your kid to post a review of the show?
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Next time you go to a show, stop and buy a lotto ticket, b/c you've been excessively lucky when it comes to attending shows.
My experience at shows reads pretty much the opposite
Noise is a gimme.
Always clouds of weed smoke, and I almost always see a person or 10 that looks completely out of it, clearly beyond stoned and that's just the obvious people.
I higher concentration of belligerent/wanna be badasses than at about any other place I'd go, except my small town hick bar.
I haven't been peed on or puked on, but heard enough stories that I feel like I have and to realize there's a chance of it happening.
Outdoor show where you can stay away from just about anybody else, reasonable. Indoor arena show where all that concentrated into one building with 20000 other people. Seems kinda iffy.
After reading a bunch of stories about how rowdy football games get, I wouldn't take my kids to that either.
I've has piss splatter twice at shows. :fp:
Thank you so much for posting the actual result. If I'd been sitting in front of you you would have seen much the same (except we don't have Lightning Bolt yet so they wouldn't know Sirens
I have seen bad parenting at some concerts. But I've seen a lot more of it at the supermarket and playground. People who know their kids and care most about them being ok, their kids will be fine at shows. Because I matter how much I may wan to hear "Immortality" or the new songs live, if my kid is having a bad time or I can't escape weed smoke (neither of which has ever happened), then I'm out. But because they enjoy it, when we can we all go.
Original poster, so glad you took your son anyway and sounds like he had a great time. If you raise happy, healthy safe kids, you rock as a parent. Don't let ANYONE tell you otherwise, especially if they can't explain specifics about why every. Single. Kid. Is allegedly in morbid danger at every. Single. Concert.
Too many people make blanket "No, never!" Comments and limit their own perspectives and views of what is possible without even realizing it. I'm totally open to hearing specific reasons/examples of why someone thinks something is a horrible idea, but pages and pages of "You suck as a parent! Don't forget to crowd surf your kid! I hope CPS gets called on you!" is useless and doesn't make any real argument for why it's supposedly so awful.
Hope your son keeps enjoying live shows!
Great to hear how it all went down. A nice break from the judgmental drivel he received in this thread.
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“I think you won, but I enjoyed the fight” - EV
Like my 4 year old loves to go to the strip clubs with me. I mean, what little kids doesn't like giant boobs, right? And it's a great way to introduce him to great classic band like AC/DC and Van Halen because they always play 'Shook Me All Night Long' an 'Hot For Teacher' about 20 times a night.
I'm thinking of taking him to the 'Lamb Of God' gig out in the desert next Summer because it's never too early to introduce him to the 'Wall of Death'.
I don't know why eveyone else is having a tizzy fit... nothing screams Rock And Roll like an OshKosh jumper that says, 'Rock The Fuck OUT!' on it.
Hail, Hail!!!
Awesome post! :thumbup: :roll:
What, you dnt like the boss? Or was it paramore?
Honest question, just put of curiosity: how would the kids have been any safer with you than with the babysitter while in a house struck by lightning? The danger is sudden, unavoidable, and over quickly. Unless the babysitter's reaction was to get the kids to run outside holding metal pipes or to hide under a tall tree, or doesn't know what to do if there is a fire, I don't understand how leaving them with a babysitter increased the threat in that situation.
As a psychologist with years of experience as a mandated reporter I know first hand how idiotic some operators at CPS can be an have often questioned their training over the years. I could list pages of examples of this. Just because you worked for CPS doesn't mean you're right. As someone with expertise in child development I have to hope someone working in an entry level position can make the appropriate affirmation to investigate the concern.
You're taking your 18 month old to rock concerts? Awesome. Good to know we have such highly qualified people working for CPS.
Funniest post of this thread
Wind this thing up.
There was a guy behind me(at wrigley merch lines outside) that had two babies in a stroller who were crying for 3 hours straight.. he would just tell them to shut up and stop crying.. THAT is abuse. Especially on a hot day like that... wow.
I don't think this case of bringing a willing and able kid to a show who clearly knows what is going on , is abuse. If the kid starts crying about the noise and standing, and the parent doesnt take action.. then that is when you can judge; not before.
2010: MSG Night 1 and Night 2
2011: Eddie Vedder Solo in Philly, PJ20 Alpine Valley Day 1 and Day 2.
2012: Berlin Night 1(7/4)
2013: Wrigley Field, Philly 1 and 2
So, snipes824, what now after my re-cap?
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No shit everyone ages the only difference is PEARL FUCKING JAM is getting better with age just like fine wine ...
:thumbup:
Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!
Another thing that hasn't been talked about here (I think), is the fact that some parents bring their kids to gain attention from Eddie. We know these folks were there at the EV solo shows, who's to say they're not trying the same at PJ shows? Let's not forget those who use their kids to get some sort of recognition from the singer. I believe some parent had a terrible experience with Pete Townsend yelling at him who attempted to get his attention with his kid.
Thank God neither one of those two are going to the show with me next week
DEGENERATE FUK
This place is dead
"THERE ARE NO CLIQUES, ONLY THOSE WHO DON'T JOIN THE FUN" - Empty circa 2015
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Thanks to all who have PM'd me and posted positive/supportive messages! It means MUCH more than the baseless negativity!
One of the following related to traumatic events:
•persistent avoidance of activities, places, or physical reminders
•people, conversations, or interpersonal situations that arouse recollections
•diminished interest or participation in significant activities such as play
•socially withdrawn behavior
•persistent reduction in expression of positive emotions
Two or more of the following:
•irritable, angry, or aggressive behavior, including extreme temper tantrums
•hypervigilance
•exaggerated startle response
•problems with concentration
•difficulty falling or staying asleep or restless sleep
You know, I hear what you're saying, and I might believe I have just been lucky... but the fact that I'm up to close to 1,200 shows now (I śtopped counting at 1,000 and that was years ago) tells me it's not just luck. Now it may very well have to do with WHICH rock concerts I see: every one from Van Halen and the Clash and the Stones baçk in the day to PJ, REM, Radiohead, Airborne Toxic Event and the Frames today ALL have relatively respectful audiences, with total idiots as the exception, not at all the rule. I've met so many amazing people at shows, and truly few jerks.
1,200 shows with only maybe 2 or 3 really crappy experiences (and none of then dangerous, just annoying) is pretty good odds I'd say
when my now 14 year old was 7 she asked to see JET.. so I took her. it was incredibly loud and she lasted less than a handful of songs. no biggie.. however the ONLY reason I took her was cause SHE asked.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
A good deal of your post is unintelligible, but from what little I can make out I gather you didn't like my response to you?
As for continuing this conversation, judging by the hostility of your response, I'm guessing the reason you disapprove of people taking young kids to shows so strongly is that you know how YOU act when you're hyped up, so rain check on meeting up. But I do sincerely hope you have a great time, and I mean that. Just don't do it by cursing out some parent there with their kid who has no idea why you are freaking out at them. (I'll be in Philly but not with the kids, so if you do yell at someone with kids it won't be me... Not at that show, anyway.) Enjoy!
FINALLY we have another professional to weigh in: an experienced psychologist with years of mandated reporter experience! Let's just cut through your petty insults and get to the point: as an experienced mandated reporter, what about the scenario originally presented, if called in to the hotline (3yr old at PJ show, with ear protection, and no other obvious negative factors like parental drug use or leaving the kid alone in the seats) meets the threshold definition for either abuse or neglect? On what basis would you screen it in, and what would your actual "highly qualified entry level person" put down in writing as the "appropriate affirmation to investigate the concern"? And last, just to make sure you're not making anything up, what jurisdiction's child welfare code are you using as your standard?
Looking forward to that expert answer on this... and it probably goes without saying that no response = you know it doesn't meet the definition. But you knew that, didn't you...
Also, get over your narcissistic self, your kid didn't want to go the show, you wanted your kid to go to the show.
BTW, when can we expect your kid to post a review of the show?