confederate flag: offensive or historical?

gimmesometruth27

chadwick wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

david allen coe flies the confederate battle flag.

'nuff said.

that there is one miserable prick. ever heard his underground album or whatever it's called? frickin wow! how can something like that get published?

i never heard it, but the thought of it to me is just facepalmworthy


have you ever read any of his lyrics?

pandora

the wolf wrote:

Just so i'm clear, I'm not really talking about the people you know Pandi, I'm saying in general, that i find it hard to believe anyone could be SO into their family heritage that they give a crap about their great, great, great, great uncle or grandfather. Espeiclly enough to show "family pride", or to display a flag, ANY flag in the name of "pride" from someone that was in your family tree, but so far removed they were nothing like you in any way, other than name.

That just baffles me. I don't even know my Great grandfather's name, let alone any of their fathers.

That's sad maybe Steve, their are many who care.

I've found the culture here very different from the North.
Kinship, loyalty, family bonds, heritage all very important.
It does not mean people support slavery, not at all, they support their blood and the history.
They are not in the least racist.
Living in a little town that has a cemetery of unmarked graves, a train station from that period,
old mansions etc. makes it real. We have many reenactments in our area.
I've met wonderful people that might otherwise be judged as not, I'm afraid.

Personally I became much more whole tracing my tree. Like a full circle.
I understood more about why my parents made choices as they did.
I found much South in me too which was not so surprising.
My father got that cooking from somewhere

Try it you may like it. Start with family stories and jot them down. Collect names and birth dates.
Then try a free trial from Ancestry.com. I sent off for death and birth certificates found
the date of my grandparents marriage etc. These things matter you know, never know
who's waiting for you on the other side....
I'm gonna know them by name.

pandora

josevolution wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

the wolf wrote:

Just so i'm clear, I'm not really talking about the people you know Pandi, I'm saying in general, that i find it hard to believe anyone could be SO into their family heritage that they give a crap about their great, great, great, great uncle or grandfather. Espeiclly enough to show "family pride", or to display a flag, ANY flag in the name of "pride" from someone that was in your family tree, but so far removed they were nothing like you in any way, other than name.

That just baffles me. I don't even know my Great grandfather's name, let alone any of their fathers.

...

I don't 'personally know' any of these guys... but, yeah... this is the bulk of the reason why the Confederate Battle Flag gets such a bad rap. Hold these guys responsible for defining the flag in today's world.

Whoa yeah look at those guys they are displaying and waving hello to their great great great great great pappi look at that civil war flag all in the name of proud southern heritage

yes this a great example of what I'm talking about...

chadwick

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

chadwick wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

david allen coe flies the confederate battle flag.

'nuff said.

that there is one miserable prick. ever heard his underground album or whatever it's called? frickin wow! how can something like that get published?

i never heard it, but the thought of it to me is just facepalmworthy


have you ever read any of his lyrics?

never read his lyrics but know his music if one can call prejudice disgusting crap music... then yes I've been around his bullshit music. very very nasty. uses the N-word in a negative tone unlike some comedians who themselves are dark. david allen coe been in prison more than he been out I think

the wolf

pandora wrote:

the wolf wrote:

Just so i'm clear, I'm not really talking about the people you know Pandi, I'm saying in general, that i find it hard to believe anyone could be SO into their family heritage that they give a crap about their great, great, great, great uncle or grandfather. Espeiclly enough to show "family pride", or to display a flag, ANY flag in the name of "pride" from someone that was in your family tree, but so far removed they were nothing like you in any way, other than name.

That just baffles me. I don't even know my Great grandfather's name, let alone any of their fathers.

That's sad maybe Steve, their are many who care.

I've found the culture here very different from the North.
Kinship, loyalty, family bonds, heritage all very important.
It does not mean people support slavery, not at all, they support their blood and the history.
They are not in the least racist.
Living in a little town that has a cemetery of unmarked graves, a train station from that period,
old mansions etc. makes it real. We have many reenactments in our area.
I've met wonderful people that might otherwise be judged as not, I'm afraid.

Personally I became much more whole tracing my tree. Like a full circle.
I understood more about why my parents made choices as they did.
I found much South in me too which was not so surprising.
My father got that cooking from somewhere

Try it you may like it. Start with family stories and jot them down. Collect names and birth dates.
Then try a free trial from Ancestry.com. I sent off for death and birth certificates found
the date of my grandparents marriage etc. These things matter you know, never know
who's waiting for you on the other side....
I'm gonna know them by name.

It's not really sad to me at all. I just have no desire to learn about people that were dead before i was ever thought of, let alone breathing.

My grandparents are as far as i need to go back, and even them very little, because they had such a small impact on my life. all my grandparents were dead before i was 5.
I know of them, and appreciate that. But their parents? i really have no desire.
My parents are the one's that shaped me, my grandparents didnt even have any lasting effects on me.
So generations before them? 150 to 200 years before my time? No thanks, I'm good.

gimmesometruth27

chadwick wrote:

never read his lyrics but know his music if one can call prejudice disgusting crap music... then yes I've been around his bullshit music. very very nasty. uses the N-word in a negative tone unlike some comedians who themselves are dark. david allen coe been in prison more than he been out I think

yeah that is what i was getting at. he drops the n-bomb in his songs like i drop the f-bomb on this site.

Godfather.

Cosmo wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

all this... know it all -finger pointing-judgemental-shit talking-crap over (as someone on here had said in past threads) a flag..."it's only a flag !" now all the sudden a flag means something to "ya'll"
I guess sometimes we just don't understand each other's beliefs and feelings, I don't believe SOUTHERN PRIDE means racism but being from SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA born and raised mind ya,and seeing all kinds of good folks here and sporting flags from everywhere but the good 'ol USA.. is that o.k with you good folks ? I was at the swapmeet a few weeks ago and saw a t-shirt that said "black pride on it"..would ya'll see that as racism ?
or even a "brown pride" t-shirt..so I kept looking and looking for a "white pride" t-shirt but all I could find was dang ol' CONFEDERATE t-shirt so when I got home with my new shirt on my brown wife said ohhh that's a cute top..... :shock: so I went back and bought a "brown pride" t-shirt....



Godfather.

...
If, as you say, 'It's only a flag'... then, does that mean it IS okay to wave a Nazi Flag, too? I mean, it is only a flag, too... right?
...
Also, you might want to re-think that 'White Pride' t-shirt. Because, in order for it to be acceptable, it would mean that you are in a minority and things aren't designed in your favor. For example, it is probably perfectly acceptable to wear a 'White Pride' t-shirt... if you lived in China. Who knows, maybe one day, you'll get that 'WET' (White Entertainment Television) station you've been wishing for.
In other words, be careful what you wish for and be grateful you were born to the majority.

I guess my shot comody was ill received actually I was pointing out that when we had thread about muslims burning American flags the popular thought was that it's only a flag.

and the rest was my shot at comody...maybe I better keep my day job..
WAIT !!!!!!!! wet station isn't that FOXNEWS ?

Godfather.

pandora

JonnyPistachio wrote:

I kinda thought you might not answer. I do like that you play devils advocate a lot and try to understand people's motivations. I can respect that. The point of my question though, was that although I can respect some people doing what you claim to have experienced, I think it is a very very small percentage.

The only reason why I leap to judge is because i've known dozens of people who fit the bill. In fact, the last guy I worked with who had a confederate licence plate, and flag on his truck, got fired from his job, and we literally found dozens of KKK pictures on his computer. When its all you know, sometimes the shoe fits. And in your case, I do believe that there are some people who like to dress up and go to a field and shoot at each other, recreating the civil war, all while paying tribute to their great great great grandfather, but they are a VERY SLIM minority I'm guessing. In fact, i'd guess the folks you describe are maybe 5% of the folks who wave their confederate flag. Many of the others use it to claim their stance on race relations.

I try to answer unless I can tell someone is being antagonistic with a less than pure motive
which wouldn't be you.

Do you have Civil War Reenactments in Florida? I don't know if you do.
Have you visited the websites? seen the number of people participating?
These are just active members, consider the many others enjoying
of the same frame of mind and heart.

I do not believe it is slim at all. I believe those who hate are in slim pickings myself.
I will always believe this. I think there is a hell of a lot of negativity and assuming going on.

The nice people I know who should not be hated might be catching crap.
Some can not tell the difference nor would take the time too.
Seems strange to me to cry hate then hate yourself. You better be really sure who you are hating
and if they deserve it.

Cosmo

Here is an example where no one has a problem with the Confederate Battle Flag... because it is set in a historical context:

...
Summary: Above... okay because of historic context...
...
Not okay, because it is used to symbolize racism in our modern (i.e. not in a Civil War) society:

...
Does anyone need a simpler clarification?

pandora

the wolf wrote:

It's not really sad to me at all. I just have no desire to learn about people that were dead before i was ever thought of, let alone breathing.

My grandparents are as far as i need to go back, and even them very little, because they had such a small impact on my life. all my grandparents were dead before i was 5.
I know of them, and appreciate that. But their parents? i really have no desire.
My parents are the one's that shaped me, my grandparents didnt even have any lasting effects on me.
So generations before them? 150 to 200 years before my time? No thanks, I'm good.

You're young give it time
I didn't start tracing til I was 50 and thought Mama Loo nuts for spending so much time doing it.
She traveled the States, made 5 inch thick binders for us all. Filled with pics facts dates.
Bless her heart. She is struggling. May be a date of her own soon. This is why we do it.
For those coming next, those left behind. It's a gift like life itself.

Perhaps one day for you ... perhaps not.

chadwick

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

chadwick wrote:

never read his lyrics but know his music if one can call prejudice disgusting crap music... then yes I've been around his bullshit music. very very nasty. uses the N-word in a negative tone unlike some comedians who themselves are dark. david allen coe been in prison more than he been out I think

yeah that is what i was getting at. he drops the n-bomb in his songs like i drop the f-bomb on this site.

yes. and he is so disgusting with his vulgar hateful bullshit he even makes the hardened profanity user vomit & shiver

pandora

Cosmo wrote:

Here is an example where no one has a problem with the Confederate Battle Flag... because it is set in a historical context:

...
Summary: Above... okay because of historic context...
...
Not okay, because it is used to symbolize racism in our modern (i.e. not in a Civil War) society:

...
Does anyone need a simpler clarification?

the good the bad and the ugly...
hope everyone knows the difference

Cosmo

Godfather. wrote:

I guess my shot comody was ill received actually I was pointing out that when we had thread about muslims burning American flags the popular thought was that it's only a flag.

and the rest was my shot at comody...maybe I better keep my day job..
WAIT !!!!!!!! wet station isn't that FOXNEWS ?

Godfather.

...
Okay... I get it... I guess.
Regarding flag burning... I don't have a problem with people burning flags... American flags or Nazi flags or Confederate Flags. I'd rather have them burn flags and get placed on government watch lists than set off a fucking bomb in the middle of a shopping mall.

chadwick

some care about their old ass family members been dead 200 years others don't give a shit about it. i truly believe those who spend a lot of energy on researching their family tree business are board just filling their time with something.

I have a 2nd cousin who was writing our family tree book & he wanted like 50 bucks a copy for the book. fuck you dude! you're out of your bloody tree is exactly what we all thought. I personally never met this dude but once and he wanted my $50 for our family tree book

dudes nuts.


btw, i barely care about my modern day cousins let alone someone from the civil war time period. so supporting rebel flag waving because great great great great great triple fucking great grand papi jethro was in the civil war means i am out of my mind if i done such bullshit.

chadwick

someday a few reenactment participants may actually use lead balls with a lot of black powder. :twisted:

Cosmo

chadwick wrote:

someday a few reenactment participants may actually use lead balls with a lot of black powder. :twisted:

...
I don't knoww that they keep playing the same battles over and over again... don't they know who's going to win?
...
Also, Civil War re-enactors are the same as Live Action Role Playing (except the LARPers get to see cleavage):
This:

VS. This

hedonist

I think family history is interesting - some of it affects my life, some doesn't. Some facts I wish I didn't know and others, like discovering that my great-grandfather was the physician to the royal court in Iran, are pretty fucking cool.

I carry their blood in me, maybe even some of their traits or neuroses or mindsets that were passed on through the years. I want to know how they lived, how they struggled, how they celebrated, how they passed their time...what daily "normal" life was like so long ago.

Ever look at old OLD family photos and see yourself looking back at yourself?

Wild.

chadwick

hedonist wrote:

Ever look at old OLD family photos and see yourself looking back at yourself?

nope i sure don't

chadwick

Cosmo wrote:

chadwick wrote:

someday a few reenactment participants may actually use lead balls with a lot of black powder. :twisted:

...
I don't knoww that they keep playing the same battles over and over again... don't they know who's going to win?
...
Also, Civil War re-enactors are the same as Live Action Role Playing (except the LARPers get to see cleavage):
This:

VS. This

cleavage or a hairy bastard beating a drum? simple choice as we already know who won

hedonist

chadwick wrote:

hedonist wrote:

Ever look at old OLD family photos and see yourself looking back at yourself?

nope i sure don't

Different strokes