confederate flag: offensive or historical?

chadwick

pandora wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

pandora wrote:

Don't you want less hate Chadwick? Why do you perpetrate it then?

He's not doing anything of the sort.

Where's the photo of you and your black friends displaying the Confederate flag in public?

oh Brynizie ...

it really aint funny. it's a fact. we'd like photo proof of your confederate flag waving dark skinned friends

redrock

pandora wrote:

It got to God because the people I spoke of have God in their hearts
and base their lives on forgiveness, kindness and understanding, whatever color they are.
Something that should be addressed when we are speaking of hate groups because who is really
hating the most are those hating without knowing who they are hating. A generalized hate.

And here I was thinking we were talking about a flag, debating whether it was offensive or historical (or maybe both).. :?

(And what a convoluted 'hate' argument ....)

pandora

I think its time for some to reread the thread and see exactly what was posted
not what they thought or hoped was posted. Notice the word ALL...
when we know that is an absolute and ALL is the basis of racism.
ALL is where generalized hate begins. Not seeing the individual.
The small mindedness of ALL is what people are crying about in the hate groups
yet it seems it flourishes elsewhere as well.

How can people complain about hate yet still hate?

I see no one addressed my words that many Southerners did not own slaves
nor support slavery.That many did not support succession. Yet they fought and died for the South.

Don't be so quick to judge the flag. It honors those as well.

redrock

chadwick wrote:

less hate = burning & destroying all hate symbols & all ignorant bullshit
less hate = assassinating all pedophiles & monsters
less hate = putting a hole through mr. castro's (of ohio) skull & allowing him to rot in the street
less hate = demanding the rothschilds family to feed africa
less hate = stop getting me & others banned from this site
less hate = turning this country over to the native americans as well as mexico, central & south america all back to the natives... and canada
less hate = murdering on the spot those who murder rhinos, elephants, gorillas & the like
less hate = stringing up ted nugent & his animal murdering pals on their little safari

less hate = me. because i am a smiling happy go lucky son of bitch

I'll go with the last one

Ummm... though not sure about your assassinating, putting a hole through people's heads and murdering! Though I might let you off on the stringing up Ted Nugent!

redrock

pandora wrote:

I see no one addressed my words that many Southerners did not own slaves
nor support slavery.That many did not support succession. Yet they fought and died for the South..

I think it has been addressed....

But hey... who reads ALL the postings here, eh?

mikepegg44

so if I am understanding this correctly

the consensus is that the Confederate flag is offensive for most, but it is ok to fly it if you have black friends?

pandora

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

It got to God because the people I spoke of have God in their hearts
and base their lives on forgiveness, kindness and understanding, whatever color they are.
Something that should be addressed when we are speaking of hate groups because who is really
hating the most are those hating without knowing who they are hating. A generalized hate.

And here I was thinking we were talking about a flag, debating whether it was offensive or historical (or maybe both).. :?

(And what a convoluted 'hate' argument ....)

reread friend ... their is much hate in this thread

People believe the flag represents hate when it does not to ALL.

redrock

pandora wrote:

... their is much hate in this thread

Whose hate?

Anyway... no discussion is to be had here... Might as well ignore until we get past this 'phase' of the thread (if ever).

pandora

mikepegg44 wrote:

so if I am understanding this correctly

the consensus is that the Confederate flag is offensive for most, but it is ok to fly it if you have black friends?

here again another ALL :?
reread the thread please if you are really interested that is
and next time you see a flag don't assume the person is wrong or racist to fly it.
This pretty much the gist of my posts.

chadwick

pandora wrote:

reread friend ... their is much hate in this thread

People believe the flag represents hate when it does not to ALL.

then why isn't the flag waving in the beautiful georgia wind (and on national days of mourning at half mast) at your home & place of business?

redrock

pandora wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

so if I am understanding this correctly

the consensus is that the Confederate flag is offensive for most, but it is ok to fly it if you have black friends?

here again another ALL :?

My bad - edited my post because I did say I was going to ignore...

*but do look at words highlighted

Jeanwah

...And the baiting has done what it was meant to do: take the thread off topic and dragged through the mud.

Byrnzie

pandora wrote:

their is much hate in this thread

There is much myopia, delusions of grandeur, and egocentrism, too.

'Egocentrism is characterized by a preoccupation with one's own internal world. Egocentrics regard themselves and their own opinions or interests as being the most important or valid. Self-relevant information is seen to be more important in shaping one’s judgments than do thoughts about others and other-relevant information. Egocentric people are unable to fully understand or to cope with other people's opinions and the fact that reality can be different from what they are ready to accept.'

pandora

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

... their is much hate in this thread

Who's hate?

Anyway... no discussion is to be had here... Might as well ignore until we get past this 'phase' of the thread (if ever).

I know your heart is pure redrock

Some people so funny with the ignore thing aren't they? could that be a matter of discipline?
I mean what is the problem? And for goodness sake what could be the motive
to not ignore after expressing the desired intention? Is that a lack of willpower maybe?
I just can not fathom why the continuation and the embarrassment? I mean give it a rest
unless the spewing is somehow feeding the ego maybe? What do you say about those
who agree to ignore and can't or don't.

Oh there is plenty of hate. People hate those who hate.
They hate the flag for what it represents which they think is hate.
Reread the thread.
It's a sad state...

when actually the flag does not represent hate to ALL. Nor do ALL find it offensive.
I would think ALL would find it historical though as I and my peeps do.

Jeanwah

Should we remind Pandora how filled with hate she was in the Boston bombing threads? And her "foreign pieces of shit" comment?

Byrnzie

Well, I for one am done with this bullshit.


Carry on.

redrock

To try and get back on track, I would just like to repeat part of a previous post (no... not that I think it was an incredibly wonderful one but because the person I quoted had a couple of very relevant thoughts.

My Opa (German for "grandpa") and two of my uncles fought for Hitler. Two of my other uncles were in Hitler's youth camps. My father was not old enough to either fight or attend a youth camp. My father did, however, grow up to marry a Puerto Rican woman and work for a very nice Arab family. Am I proud of my father? Yes, I am. Yet, I wouldn't don a S.S. uniform and waltz into a synagogue proclaiming, "Nah, don't worry. I'm not an anti-Semite. I'm just proud of my ancestors and celebrating my heritage." And then act shocked and indignant when everyone does not comfortably accept my assertion. Perhaps even shed a lone tear in wonderment as to why they would possibly take offense to my action.

.................

Although you may think you are not racist by proudly waving that flag, you should at least have the decency to understand why blacks (and many non-blacks) are offended by the stigma of the flag. To stand up in public, in front of your neighborhood, and act the victim in this is pathetic, shameless, and just plain ignorant.

If you are so proud of your heritage, then you should be better acquainted with the history that your heritage represents. "

We are discussing a symbol which, I think, is both historical (obviously) but also offensive. Like other similar symbols - the most commonly know one would be as above. Question - if we accept one, then should be be OK with the other? (Note, I do know that the Swastika has other symbolic meanings in other cultures but I am concentrating on the western world). Ties in with freedom of speech? Freedom of expression? Who cares if one seriously offends a large portion of the population, it's one's right to display any flag as they wish, in the manner they wish Maybe it is - but what does that tell us?

pandora

Jeanwah wrote:

...And the baiting has done what it was meant to do: take the thread off topic and dragged through the mud.

I will say again that my life experiences have brought me to a place
where I know the Confederate flags mean something beautiful to some people.
This I embrace and enjoy and is very much on topic. I am blessed to know black and white people
who have love, forgiveness and kindness in their hearts that brings them to this place also.

That is not baiting though I guess your life experiences tell you that it is.
Is this suspiciousness that comes with that from your life experiences?
Is this mean spiritedness and vindictiveness also a result of life experiences?
Our life experiences is where we learn our opinions and how to interact with others.

You have agreed to ignore time and again...
is it these emotions and motives that won't allow you too? I would better like to undersatnd
why this continues.

pandora

Jeanwah wrote:

Should we remind Pandora how filled with hate she was in the Boston bombing threads? And her "foreign pieces of shit" comment?

I am so glad you brought this up... it is a great example of ALL.

My buddies jumped on that not as an individual hate but a racist hate ...
a generalized hate towards ALL foreigners. Ridiculous I know :fp:

I do hate those two foreign men living in my country collecting financial aid from my taxes
that hate the American people to a point they will kill an 8 year old boy
and blow the limbs off of many people. It was a cowardly act.

Some may think I'm a saint here but I do hate. Not generalized hate but specific hate,
as many do. I am working on that but sometimes passion takes me over. Like I said
trying is what I am doing. Are you Jeanwah?

JonnyPistachio

pandora wrote:

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

It got to God because the people I spoke of have God in their hearts
and base their lives on forgiveness, kindness and understanding, whatever color they are.
Something that should be addressed when we are speaking of hate groups because who is really
hating the most are those hating without knowing who they are hating. A generalized hate.

And here I was thinking we were talking about a flag, debating whether it was offensive or historical (or maybe both).. :?

(And what a convoluted 'hate' argument ....)

reread friend ... their is much hate in this thread

People believe the flag represents hate when it does not to ALL.

I havent seen too many people say they hate people who display the confederate flag. I have seen a lot of people who have had bad personal experiences with people who did display the flag with a negative purpose. My whole point, 37 bazillion pages ago, Pandora, was that even the people who you talk about (your friends) who display this flag with ZERO negative political and racial motivations, are VERY much the minority. They do exist, sure, but its the minority, and pretty uncommon. So, like myself and most of the others in this thread -- when every single instance you've come across in your life regarding that flag is a terrible, racist act, it shouldnt be a surprise that people associate it with hate/bigotry, etc and dislike it... and again, its offensive to an ENTIRE RACE. If I knew doing something was offensive to ANY race in its entirety because it represented enslaving their people, I would discontinue it, and frankly, I wouldnt tend to associate myself with people with those same motivations. You see, its ok to not like this kind of behavior.., which is the behavior of MANY, if not MOST, who display this flag.