I can see why you feel as you do... living in Minnesota
I would feel that way living anywhere...
Don't you think it is the least bit of bad taste if you are using the flag anywhere in public view that isn't a civil war reenactment?
Semiotics is an interesting area of study, but the gist of it is that symbols have no natural meaning. They get their meaning from social construction...So to fly the flag as an act of southern pride is strange to me, considering that the flag itself has come to represent a time that as a southerner I would think you aren't proud of...
I think of this often spending my first 35 years in WI. Living there very different than here.
Very different life experiences and people I know and love.
To know Southern pride is to love Southern pride and I understand how it would
be strange to you.
There is nothing strange about Southern pride. What's strange is that some want to use a racist symbol to express that pride. That is just fucked up.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I think of this often spending my first 35 years in WI. Living there very different than here.
Very different life experiences and people I know and love.
To know Southern pride is to love Southern pride and I understand how it would
be strange to you.
At no point did I say it was wrong to have southern pride...I am proud to be from fly-over country...but I don't understand why some have to display their pride with a symbol that has become synonymous with bigotry to the majority of the public.
If you know a symbol is offensive to a large section of the public, is it not inconsiderate to use that symbol for any other purpose? I think it is just a sign of respect for society as a whole to acknowledge that something's meaning has changed over time and that you won't wear/fly it anymore...
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Personally, I just don't believe you. I do not believe that you have a bunch of black friends who are fine and dandy with white people flying the confederate flag. The only way i'd believe that is if you showed me their commitment papers from the local mental hospital.
And don't say that others are quick to judge. These judgments seem anything but quick. I am not sure how you can continue to ignore all of the comparisons to the swastika. There is no doubt that the parallel is uncanny, but I don't think you've acknowledged that obvious fact, or justified your love for a similar racist and hateful symbol that can be so clearly compared to the Nazi flag...... you know, one of these days, I really hope you are capable of just backing down and admitting that maybe you're wrong. I think you really should try and reconsider your position about the confederate flag. It is very clear that it is offensive and considered a symbol of racism, yet you continue to defend it. WHY??? That isn't a kind and open-minded position. That is a close minded and callous position. So please stop giving yourself credit.
It seems utterly bizarre to me that someone who keeps preaching about love and all that shit you go on about wouldn't have the humility to admit she's wrong. I don't understand how can in conscience keep on fighting in favor of something that is hurtful and offensive to so many, for a very clear reason. You seem to say that your priorities are about acceptance and peace.... but you give a big ol FUCK YOU to everyone at the same time. You can't have it both ways! Even if you knew a black person dumb enough to be cool with this symbol, what about the other 99% who see it as a symbol of their suffering, of the racism committed against them for centuries until today? You really don't seem to give a crap about them at all. Your priorities are fucked up big time IMHO, all for the sake of a racist symbol that is honoured by white racist trash... oh, and of course by the people who like to participate in civil war reenactments. :roll:
Of course you don't believe that says it all ... rolly eyes
As I said the most offensive thing is assuming ALL who fly the flag are racist.
Generalized hate ... is that what you are doing as well?
What would be wrong of me is to assume the wonderful people God has brought to me
are not worth knowing as you seem to be insinuating. Shame on you!
I do not defend racism I guess you need to reread as well :fp:
I think of this often spending my first 35 years in WI. Living there very different than here.
Very different life experiences and people I know and love.
To know Southern pride is to love Southern pride and I understand how it would
be strange to you.
At no point did I say it was wrong to have southern pride...I am proud to be from fly-over country...but I don't understand why some have to display their pride with a symbol that has become synonymous with bigotry to the majority of the public.
If you know a symbol is offensive to a large section of the public, is it not inconsiderate to use that symbol for any other purpose? I think it is just a sign of respect for society as a whole to acknowledge that something's meaning has changed over time and that you won't wear/fly it anymore...
No, you don't understand cause your great great grand pappy didn't have his legs blown off laying in the snow dying for 48 hours while he held that flag.
You will never understand until you sit down and listen to the stories handed down.
Look into the eyes of the people today, into their hearts and know the difference
in how and why people display that flag. History is history for a reason and history is important
to some.
0
Options
hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Personally, I just don't believe you. I do not believe that you have a bunch of black friends who are fine and dandy with white people flying the confederate flag. The only way i'd believe that is if you showed me their commitment papers from the local mental hospital.
And don't say that others are quick to judge. These judgments seem anything but quick. I am not sure how you can continue to ignore all of the comparisons to the swastika. There is no doubt that the parallel is uncanny, but I don't think you've acknowledged that obvious fact, or justified your love for a similar racist and hateful symbol that can be so clearly compared to the Nazi flag...... you know, one of these days, I really hope you are capable of just backing down and admitting that maybe you're wrong. I think you really should try and reconsider your position about the confederate flag. It is very clear that it is offensive and considered a symbol of racism, yet you continue to defend it. WHY??? That isn't a kind and open-minded position. That is a close minded and callous position. So please stop giving yourself credit.
It seems utterly bizarre to me that someone who keeps preaching about love and all that shit you go on about wouldn't have the humility to admit she's wrong. I don't understand how can in conscience keep on fighting in favor of something that is hurtful and offensive to so many, for a very clear reason. You seem to say that your priorities are about acceptance and peace.... but you give a big ol FUCK YOU to everyone at the same time. You can't have it both ways! Even if you knew a black person dumb enough to be cool with this symbol, what about the other 99% who see it as a symbol of their suffering, of the racism committed against them for centuries until today? You really don't seem to give a crap about them at all. Your priorities are fucked up big time IMHO, all for the sake of a racist symbol that is honoured by white racist trash... oh, and of course by the people who like to participate in civil war reenactments. :roll:
Of course you don't believe that says it all ... rolly eyes
As I said the most offensive thing is assuming ALL who fly the flag are racist.
Generalized hate ... is that what you are doing as well?
What would be wrong of me is to assume the wonderful people God has brought to me
are not worth knowing as you seem to be insinuating. Shame on you!
I do not defend racism I guess you need to reread as well :fp:
No, don't have to reread. I did not insinuate that all who fly that flag are racist. I said that most are, and the rest are either too stupid or too insensitive to care that it is hurtful to others.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I think of this often spending my first 35 years in WI. Living there very different than here.
Very different life experiences and people I know and love.
To know Southern pride is to love Southern pride and I understand how it would
be strange to you.
At no point did I say it was wrong to have southern pride...I am proud to be from fly-over country...but I don't understand why some have to display their pride with a symbol that has become synonymous with bigotry to the majority of the public.
If you know a symbol is offensive to a large section of the public, is it not inconsiderate to use that symbol for any other purpose? I think it is just a sign of respect for society as a whole to acknowledge that something's meaning has changed over time and that you won't wear/fly it anymore...
No, you don't understand cause your great great grand pappy didn't have his legs blown off laying in the snow dying for 48 hours while he held that flag.
You will never understand until you sit down and listen to the stories handed down.
Look into the eyes of the people today, into their hearts and know the difference
in how and why people display that flag. History is history for a reason and history is important
to some.
But I don't know any Germans whose grandparent was killed in WWII who fly the Nazi flag. Do you? And if you did, would that seem fine to you? I guess it would have to, since that is pretty much what you're supporting here, just a different flag and a different war.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
No, you don't understand cause your great great grand pappy didn't have his legs blown off laying in the snow dying for 48 hours while he held that flag. You will never understand until you sit down and listen to the stories handed down.
Look into the eyes of the people today, into their hearts and know the difference
in how and why people display that flag. History is history for a reason and history is important
to some.
I don't need to physically feel drops to understand it is raining...
Like I said, I know that some don't display it because of hate, but to maybe put it into perspective for you, you were angry that a rapper got paid by a company when in his lyrics he talked about rape. That isn't offensive to some, but for many it was...They didn't use him in an endorsement deal because he raped women, but realized that Rick Ross had become a symbol of rape for many and thus no longer were going to display him as a symbol for the company...Symbols change over time, it can be drastic or slow, but they change and to not acknowledge the change is insensitive and not being a good member of society.
you don't lose your southern pride or heritage by not displaying the flag, but you might gain some respect for that pride in your heritage if you acknowledge what that flag has become and move on from it...
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Symbols change over time, it can be drastic or slow, but they change and to not acknowledge the change is insensitive and not being a good member of society.
you don't lose your southern pride or heritage by not displaying the flag, but you might gain some respect for that pride in your heritage if you acknowledge what that flag has become and move on from it...
Certainly it was something that my ancestors understood towards the end of the middle ages. Family of high nobility, land as far as the eye can see, revenue from this land and... the feudal system with all that entails. Their banner/flag and crest reflected this. Things changed and whilst this was a most honoured flag for them and those of similar status, it was a symbol of oppression for the serfs, peasants and those not so noble (sounds familiar?). The family were wise enough to understand this, adapt to the times and, whilst they kept some components of the flag (to do with the name and origin of the family), the symbols of servitude, ownership and oppression were removed. The family, as well as those working on their lands (now free and with rights) accepted this new flag as 'theirs' as well (in the surrounding villages). Had my ancestors been dead intent to continue with the 'old' banner (since their pappy, grand pappy, great grand pappy, great great grand pappy, etc. probably lay on the battle field with their leg/arm/whatever cut off and suffered immensly whilst holding this flag), it would have caused great offense and anger. And it would still in this day and age. As you say.... move on with the times.
No, don't have to reread. I did not insinuate that all who fly that flag are racist. I said that most are, and the rest are either too stupid or too insensitive to care that it is hurtful to others.
Talk about insensitivity. You need to reread because no where did I defend racism :fp:
It's nuts to want to keep this symbol as one of Southern pride. It only harms the South to bolster that attitude.
This is a hate group do you not know the difference?
So when another poster assumes everyone knows the difference I guess we'll have to point this out.
There are others.
No, don't have to reread. I did not insinuate that all who fly that flag are racist. I said that most are, and the rest are either too stupid or too insensitive to care that it is hurtful to others.
Talk about insensitivity. You need to reread because no where did I defend racism :fp:
You need to reread - I never said you did.
...Tall about insensitivity, you are supporting the flying of the confederate flag. :fp:
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
No, you don't understand cause your great great grand pappy didn't have his legs blown off laying in the snow dying for 48 hours while he held that flag. You will never understand until you sit down and listen to the stories handed down.
Look into the eyes of the people today, into their hearts and know the difference
in how and why people display that flag. History is history for a reason and history is important
to some.
I don't need to physically feel drops to understand it is raining...
Like I said, I know that some don't display it because of hate, but to maybe put it into perspective for you, you were angry that a rapper got paid by a company when in his lyrics he talked about rape. That isn't offensive to some, but for many it was...They didn't use him in an endorsement deal because he raped women, but realized that Rick Ross had become a symbol of rape for many and thus no longer were going to display him as a symbol for the company...Symbols change over time, it can be drastic or slow, but they change and to not acknowledge the change is insensitive and not being a good member of society.
you don't lose your southern pride or heritage by not displaying the flag, but you might gain some respect for that pride in your heritage if you acknowledge what that flag has become and move on from it...
The difference here is a hate group adopted a flag for their purposes, not everyones.
This flag is not a symbol of hate for everyone but a historic flag their lost loved ones fought for,
died for, it is here to stay for a reason.
Not sure how a rapper condoning drugging a girl with Molly without her knowing it and taking
her home and raping her has anything to do with a historic flag.
He was a person endorsing a product who made a very bad decision.
It's nuts to want to keep this symbol as one of Southern pride. It only harms the South to bolster that attitude.
This is a hate group do you not know the difference?
So when another poster assumes everyone knows the difference I guess we'll have to point this out.
There are others.
Uh, I know it's hate groups. That was the point. You are supporting a flag that has been taken over by hate groups. Your little Southern pride confederate flag bolster committee has lost the battle. At this point you just seem insensitive. It's over. Time to face it. The flag belings to hate groups and racist white trash now. Your attitude is the kind of attitude that is helping to maintain negative Southern stereotypes.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
No, don't have to reread. I did not insinuate that all who fly that flag are racist. I said that most are, and the rest are either too stupid or too insensitive to care that it is hurtful to others.
Talk about insensitivity. You need to reread because no where did I defend racism :fp:
You need to reread - I never said you did.
...Tall about insensitivity, you are supporting the flying of the confederate flag. :fp:
Of course I am for those who lost loved ones, who are showing Southern pride not hate.
Their motives are purer than many here actually
Yes, I enjoyed it as well. He made excellent points about why people in the south would have fought the Civil War and supported secession. However, all his points explained why they supported slavery, for religious, political, or economic reasons and in no way does this excuse someone from today for supporting the use of this flag for personal reaons. I am a lifelong resident of the south. I have family members who also believe this flag represents their southern pride. They also insist they are not racist and are not supporting the racist ideology of this war. However, they are indeed racist and do not realize that the pervasive attitudes of many within the south, especially the deep south, are racist.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
Talk about insensitivity. You need to reread because no where did I defend racism :fp:
You need to reread - I never said you did.
...Tall about insensitivity, you are supporting the flying of the confederate flag. :fp:
Of course I am for those who lost loved ones, who are showing Southern pride not hate.
Their motives are purer than many here actually
At best, the flag now represents Southern stupidity, for not getting that the Southern pride factor of this flag is dead.
(And what IS the Southern pride thing anyway?? Sometimes I get the impression that you "Southern Pride" people wouldn't much care if there was another civil war. I thought you were all supposed to be Americans! I totally vet regional pride and identity, but the Southern pride thing has a very "us vs you" thing going on, and you feel so strongly about it that you fly a flag that not only is a symbol for hate now, but also highlights the fight between the north and south in the civil war, and that you guys aren't over the fight yet (which is strange, because if the south had won slavery wouldn't have ended).
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Uh, I know it's hate groups. That was the point. You are supporting a flag that has been taken over by hate groups. Your little Southern pride confederate flag bolster committee has lost the battle. At this point you just seem insensitive. It's over. Time to face it. The flag belings to hate groups and racist white trash now. Your attitude is the kind of attitude that is helping to maintain negative Southern stereotypes.
What is insensitive is people who can not or will not differentiate between those who honor
and those who hate. It is not over for families of those lost.
Certainly not over because of haters... those as you hate and those who use the flag to hate. That would be allowing the haters to win.
Yes, I enjoyed it as well. He made excellent points about why people in the south would have fought the Civil War and supported secession. However, all his points explained why they supported slavery, for religious, political, or economic reasons and in no way does this excuse someone from today for supporting the use of this flag for personal reaons. I am a lifelong resident of the south. I have family members who also believe this flag represents their southern pride. They also insist they are not racist and are not supporting the racist ideology of this war. However, they are indeed racist and do not realize that the pervasive attitudes of many within the south, especially the deep south, are racist.
Yes, I enjoyed it as well. He made excellent points about why people in the south would have fought the Civil War and supported secession. However, all his points explained why they supported slavery, for religious, political, or economic reasons and in no way does this excuse someone from today for supporting the use of this flag for personal reaons. I am a lifelong resident of the south. I have family members who also believe this flag represents their southern pride. They also insist they are not racist and are not supporting the racist ideology of this war. However, they are indeed racist and do not realize that the pervasive attitudes of many within the south, especially the deep south, are racist.
I thought I was to ignore you... can I reply?
yes I know what he wrote was about and yes it was not to support how I feel it was to
bring a light to those who read about the times and what some Southerners faced.
You know racists, this is your life experiences, negative from what we can read.
But hopefully you realize not ALL are racist nor carry and honor the flag for that reason.
What is insensitive is people who can not or will not differentiate between those who honor
and those who hate. It is not over for families of those lost.
Certainly not over because of haters... those as you hate and those who use the flag to hate. That would be allowing the haters to win.
Don't let the haters win. Thank you Pandora, for clearly repeating what needs to be said.
Uh, I know it's hate groups. That was the point. You are supporting a flag that has been taken over by hate groups. Your little Southern pride confederate flag bolster committee has lost the battle. At this point you just seem insensitive. It's over. Time to face it. The flag belings to hate groups and racist white trash now. Your attitude is the kind of attitude that is helping to maintain negative Southern stereotypes.
What is insensitive is people who can not or will not differentiate between those who honor
and those who hate. It is not over for families of those lost.
Certainly not over because of haters... those as you hate and those who use the flag to hate. That would be allowing the haters to win.
It IS over because of haters. The haters made your flag a symbol of hate. I am not a hater for being against a symbol of hate. Nice try (not really). The issue is not that we can't diffentiate between those who hate and those who don't. That is not even the discussion that is taking place here. Focus Pandora. The argument here may as well be that I'm German and want to use the fucking Nazi flag to honour my grandparents who died in WWII. Hey, they fought bravely for the Nazis and died in battle. I'm going to fly my swastika on Remembrance day! That should go over well! :fp: That is ludicrous. And so is using the confederate flag as a symbol of honour. It is now a HATE SYMBOL. I know you don't want it to be. But it still is. Sorry, tough break!
Wow, you are so stubborn, it just defies all logic. :fp:
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I know a few lovely people who fly this flag to honor their ancestors and show their 'southern pride' (whatever that may be) and are not racist.
and/or
Due to it's history and the history of the South, the flag is a symbol of racism and oppression for a majority of people - black (especially), white, etc.. No hate involved (after all, 'hate' towards a bit of fabric is just silly. And, whilst I know the word 'haters' has been used and directed towards people, it's an asinie notion here - we are talking symbol) - but justifiable offense when it is displayed without consideration by certain people (ie perhaps arrogantly by a part of the population that still have 'certain attitudes'.
and/or
It has been taken over as a symbol for white supremacy (for obvious reasons) and it is understood as such by the large majority of people. These are the people that need to be described as haters.... not those who take offense to a symbol.
The difference here is a hate group adopted a flag for their purposes, not everyones.
This flag is not a symbol of hate for everyone but a historic flag their lost loved ones fought for,
died for, it is here to stay for a reason.
Not sure how a rapper condoning drugging a girl with Molly without her knowing it and taking
her home and raping her has anything to do with a historic flag.
He was a person endorsing a product who made a very bad decision.
Read it again, it is pretty clear. It is symbolism...Ross was a symbol of a lifestyle for Reebok...that changed when he released that song with the lyrics in question. The meaning of symbols change.
in the highlighted part above you are making a distinction without a difference Pandora. I have already acknowledged that not all who would ever look at or display the flag think of it as a symbol of racism...BUT when the majority of a society do look at it that way that is what it means for good or bad...that is what I meant by social construct earlier. It may not be fair to those who don't display it for bigotry, but Fair is where you go to buy a pig, because life ain't it.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Im glad you do too. It may balance it for you.. but not the rest of the USA. Its really too bad that so many hate groups adopted the flag really. or maybe its too bad something else with less negative implications hasnt come along to take its place, to represent pride for ones ancestry. No matter what, its a controversial symbol.. unfortunately for the few who do like it for harmless reasons.
I will agree it is too bad about hate groups adopting the flag but the way people are so quick
to generalize and hate ALL is no better than the hate groups themselves.
The hypocrisy there speaks volumes to character.
Then those who have forgiven, embraced, have love and kindness in their hearts
are called stupid and insensitive ... go figure. :fp:
I'm an 8th grade teacher in New Jersey and my class saw a segment today about a kid being suspended for wearing a shirt with the confederate flag on it. What do you guys think, is the flag offensive or is it historical? Just looking for everyone's opinion. Thanks.
Mike
The Confederate Flag is HISTORICAL.
It's a 8th grade kid wearing the shirt...
It's my opinion he had little clues as to what his shirt really meant. Or he could have been out of laundry, and that was the only clean shirt he had.
I'm sure there is a rule in the school handbook, and if it's offensive to others at the school he should be made to change his clothing.
I know a few lovely people who fly this flag to honor their ancestors and show their 'southern pride' (whatever that may be) and are not racist.
and/or
Due to it's history and the history of the South, the flag is a symbol of racism and oppression for a majority of people - black (especially), white, etc.. No hate involved (after all, 'hate' towards a bit of fabric is just silly. And, whilst I know the word 'haters' has been used and directed towards people, it's an asinie notion here - we are talking symbol) - but justifiable offense when it is displayed without consideration by certain people (ie perhaps arrogantly by a part of the population that still have 'certain attitudes'.
and/or
It has been taken over as a symbol for white supremacy (for obvious reasons) and it is understood as such by the large majority of people. These are the people that need to be described as haters.... not those who take offense to a symbol.
Take your pick....
Thank you redrock.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
At no point did I say it was wrong to have southern pride...I am proud to be from fly-over country...but I don't understand why some have to display their pride with a symbol that has become synonymous with bigotry to the majority of the public.
If you know a symbol is offensive to a large section of the public, is it not inconsiderate to use that symbol for any other purpose? I think it is just a sign of respect for society as a whole to acknowledge that something's meaning has changed over time and that you won't wear/fly it anymore...
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
As I said the most offensive thing is assuming ALL who fly the flag are racist.
Generalized hate ... is that what you are doing as well?
What would be wrong of me is to assume the wonderful people God has brought to me
are not worth knowing as you seem to be insinuating. Shame on you!
I do not defend racism I guess you need to reread as well :fp:
You will never understand until you sit down and listen to the stories handed down.
Look into the eyes of the people today, into their hearts and know the difference
in how and why people display that flag. History is history for a reason and history is important
to some.
I don't need to physically feel drops to understand it is raining...
Like I said, I know that some don't display it because of hate, but to maybe put it into perspective for you, you were angry that a rapper got paid by a company when in his lyrics he talked about rape. That isn't offensive to some, but for many it was...They didn't use him in an endorsement deal because he raped women, but realized that Rick Ross had become a symbol of rape for many and thus no longer were going to display him as a symbol for the company...Symbols change over time, it can be drastic or slow, but they change and to not acknowledge the change is insensitive and not being a good member of society.
you don't lose your southern pride or heritage by not displaying the flag, but you might gain some respect for that pride in your heritage if you acknowledge what that flag has become and move on from it...
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
It's nuts to want to keep this symbol as one of Southern pride. It only harms the South to bolster that attitude.
Certainly it was something that my ancestors understood towards the end of the middle ages. Family of high nobility, land as far as the eye can see, revenue from this land and... the feudal system with all that entails. Their banner/flag and crest reflected this. Things changed and whilst this was a most honoured flag for them and those of similar status, it was a symbol of oppression for the serfs, peasants and those not so noble (sounds familiar?). The family were wise enough to understand this, adapt to the times and, whilst they kept some components of the flag (to do with the name and origin of the family), the symbols of servitude, ownership and oppression were removed. The family, as well as those working on their lands (now free and with rights) accepted this new flag as 'theirs' as well (in the surrounding villages). Had my ancestors been dead intent to continue with the 'old' banner (since their pappy, grand pappy, great grand pappy, great great grand pappy, etc. probably lay on the battle field with their leg/arm/whatever cut off and suffered immensly whilst holding this flag), it would have caused great offense and anger. And it would still in this day and age. As you say.... move on with the times.
So when another poster assumes everyone knows the difference I guess we'll have to point this out.
There are others.
...Tall about insensitivity, you are supporting the flying of the confederate flag. :fp:
This flag is not a symbol of hate for everyone but a historic flag their lost loved ones fought for,
died for, it is here to stay for a reason.
Not sure how a rapper condoning drugging a girl with Molly without her knowing it and taking
her home and raping her has anything to do with a historic flag.
He was a person endorsing a product who made a very bad decision.
Their motives are purer than many here actually
Yes, I enjoyed it as well. He made excellent points about why people in the south would have fought the Civil War and supported secession. However, all his points explained why they supported slavery, for religious, political, or economic reasons and in no way does this excuse someone from today for supporting the use of this flag for personal reaons. I am a lifelong resident of the south. I have family members who also believe this flag represents their southern pride. They also insist they are not racist and are not supporting the racist ideology of this war. However, they are indeed racist and do not realize that the pervasive attitudes of many within the south, especially the deep south, are racist.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
(And what IS the Southern pride thing anyway?? Sometimes I get the impression that you "Southern Pride" people wouldn't much care if there was another civil war. I thought you were all supposed to be Americans! I totally vet regional pride and identity, but the Southern pride thing has a very "us vs you" thing going on, and you feel so strongly about it that you fly a flag that not only is a symbol for hate now, but also highlights the fight between the north and south in the civil war, and that you guys aren't over the fight yet (which is strange, because if the south had won slavery wouldn't have ended).
and those who hate. It is not over for families of those lost.
Certainly not over because of haters...
those as you hate and those who use the flag to hate. That would be allowing the haters to win.
Agree.
yes I know what he wrote was about and yes it was not to support how I feel it was to
bring a light to those who read about the times and what some Southerners faced.
You know racists, this is your life experiences, negative from what we can read.
But hopefully you realize not ALL are racist nor carry and honor the flag for that reason.
Don't let the haters win. Thank you Pandora, for clearly repeating what needs to be said.
Wow, you are so stubborn, it just defies all logic. :fp:
I know a few lovely people who fly this flag to honor their ancestors and show their 'southern pride' (whatever that may be) and are not racist.
and/or
Due to it's history and the history of the South, the flag is a symbol of racism and oppression for a majority of people - black (especially), white, etc.. No hate involved (after all, 'hate' towards a bit of fabric is just silly. And, whilst I know the word 'haters' has been used and directed towards people, it's an asinie notion here - we are talking symbol) - but justifiable offense when it is displayed without consideration by certain people (ie perhaps arrogantly by a part of the population that still have 'certain attitudes'.
and/or
It has been taken over as a symbol for white supremacy (for obvious reasons) and it is understood as such by the large majority of people. These are the people that need to be described as haters.... not those who take offense to a symbol.
Take your pick....
Read it again, it is pretty clear. It is symbolism...Ross was a symbol of a lifestyle for Reebok...that changed when he released that song with the lyrics in question. The meaning of symbols change.
in the highlighted part above you are making a distinction without a difference Pandora. I have already acknowledged that not all who would ever look at or display the flag think of it as a symbol of racism...BUT when the majority of a society do look at it that way that is what it means for good or bad...that is what I meant by social construct earlier. It may not be fair to those who don't display it for bigotry, but Fair is where you go to buy a pig, because life ain't it.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
to generalize and hate ALL is no better than the hate groups themselves.
The hypocrisy there speaks volumes to character.
Then those who have forgiven, embraced, have love and kindness in their hearts
are called stupid and insensitive ... go figure. :fp:
The Confederate Flag is HISTORICAL.
It's a 8th grade kid wearing the shirt...
It's my opinion he had little clues as to what his shirt really meant. Or he could have been out of laundry, and that was the only clean shirt he had.
I'm sure there is a rule in the school handbook, and if it's offensive to others at the school he should be made to change his clothing.
Of course it's historical. No argument about that (though maybe the wording of the title can be a bit confusing).
But historical doesn't preclude offensive.