confederate flag: offensive or historical?

pandora

Thanks to a wonderfully generous and knowledgable person here on the board
I received an awesome package in the mail some time back. I enjoyed the materials
and it sparked an interest in me to know more about those times we speak of.
To learn about Georgia's battles and subsequently meeting some awesome people.

History is a subject I didn't pay much attention to until I started tracing my own family tree,
silly me.Then I received my gift box and it's been a trip! I am grateful for every person
who has taken me on it.
There is no way I can look at those taking pride in the battle flag as something negative,
not after learning how they feel about it. They are some of the most positive loving people
you'd ever want to meet.

Cosmo

chadwick wrote:

quick story

i know a dude w/ a rebel flag hanging on his bedroom wall. he was meeting a lady of darker skin at his home to hook her up with a green sack. she had a problem w/ him at an earlier encounter where he used the N-word & not in a hateful manner but casually & it did not make her to thrilled but she blew it off.

once at his place he's getting her hooked up nicely when she sees the flag hanging there on his wall, without a word she slipped out the front door leaving him scratching his head with her green sack in hand.

the rebel flag is a disgusting symbol just exactly like the SS & Nazi symbols. people who are hated upon do not like these shallow ignorant people nor do they enjoy their flags & other memorabilia

...
When i was little.. like real little... I had a friend who was German. His dad served in WWII as a soldier. Their den was.. well, kind of awesome. He had a bunch of guns on the wall and a bunch of helmets and a big German (swastika) Flag. To a little kid... this was fucking cool.
We'd take some of the guns, hide them under our shirts and slipped past his stay at home mom to go outside and play army in the vacant lots. i vividly remember trying to pull the trigger of a Luger with a little swastika on the handle, but being 5 years old... not enough hand strength. I also remmeber the helmets... there were a couple we were allowed to play with... some of them had bullet holes in them.
Anyway, the point is... in this context, the display of a flag under which this man served as a soldier... I get it.
But, if he were to step outside of his house an wave it on June 6th, 2013 (even in a memorial tribute to the men who died along side him in defense of the bluffs over Omaha Beach)... it woul totally be wrong.

chadwick

pandora wrote:

Thanks to a wonderfully generous and knowledgable person here on the board
I received an awesome package in the mail some time back. I enjoyed the materials
and it sparked an interest in me to know more about those times we speak of.
To learn about Georgia's battles and subsequently meeting some awesome people.

History is a subject I didn't pay much attention to until I started tracing my own family tree,
silly me.Then I received my gift box and it's been a trip! I am grateful for every person
who has taken me on it.
There is no way I can look at those taking pride in the battle flag as something negative,
not after learning how they feel about it. They are some of the most positive loving people
you'd ever want to meet.

my family was toasted in ovens & thrown in gas chambers & starved to death. i can't bring myself to view the nazi & ss symbols as positive family heritage memorabilia. this is how dark skinned folks feel about the rebel flag, pandora.

MotoDC

drowned out wrote:

you might want to check yourself

Before I wreck myself?

pandora

Happy to report, it is an untruth that all black people view those who display
and honor the confederate flag as being antagonistic or offensive.

Perhaps I attract positive intelligent people, maybe I am just damn lucky
to know people who take the time to understand and acknowledge the good from the bad.
They do not lump those who honor the flag for the right reasons with those who don't.
Smart enough to try to know the individual behind the story, the memory, the ancestor,
the battle, the flag, and the love. I have been blessed to know and love some incredible people
with open minds and open hearts.

MotoDC

Byrnzie wrote:

pandora wrote:

Whether I agree with what happened those many years ago or not I will always stand by those
who honor others today and try to understand how they all feel and not judge them
for the flag they love.

Do you also stand by those who honour the memory of the Waffen S.S, who fought to wipe all Jews from the face of the Earth?

Do you stand by these people and try to understand how they feel, and not judge them for the flag/symbol they love?



This is the symbol they love, and the Swastika is the flag they love. My question is a serious one and not meant to be offensive. How far does this fluffy notion of yours extend? Or is it merely limited to some (the Confederates), and not others?

Anyone know the flag/symbol of the KKK?

Does your heart reach out to those who honour the memory of these Crucifix-burning gimps too?

Ok now this thread has just taken a turn for the bizarre. Byrnzie is referencing the holocaust to prove a point?

Jason P

MotoDC wrote:

drowned out wrote:

you might want to check yourself

Before I wreck myself?

They better checkity check themselves before they wreck themselves, Cotton

mikepegg44

Jason P wrote:

MotoDC wrote:

drowned out wrote:

you might want to check yourself

Before I wreck myself?

They better checkity check themselves before they wreck themselves, Cotton

there is no better authority on the subject...

MotoDC

Jason P wrote:

MotoDC wrote:

drowned out wrote:

you might want to check yourself

Before I wreck myself?

They better checkity check themselves before they wreck themselves, Cotton

I fully expected no one on a PJ forum to get that. Jason P, thank you.

PJ_Soul

Offensive.
A Nazi flag is historical too... does that mean it's okay to string it up? No. Same goes for the Confederate flag. The details of history behind it don't matter (just like if someone said they admired Hitler's economic views that were unrelated to the holocaust). The flag is a symbol of racism (whatever else it might be a symbol of is rendered inconsequential because of that fact).

chadwick

pandora wrote:

Happy to report, it is an untruth that all black people view those who display
and honor the confederate flag as being antagonistic or offensive.

Perhaps I attract positive intelligent people, maybe I am just damn lucky
to know people who take the time to understand and acknowledge the good from the bad.
They do not lump those who honor the flag for the right reasons with those who don't.
Smart enough to try to know the individual behind the story, the memory, the ancestor,
the battle, the flag, and the love. I have been blessed to know and love some incredible people
with open minds and open hearts.

and the rest of us who dislike the flag attract morons because we are unlucky for not knowing intellectual people like yourself?

Jeanwah

chadwick wrote:

pandora wrote:

Happy to report, it is an untruth that all black people view those who display
and honor the confederate flag as being antagonistic or offensive.

Perhaps I attract positive intelligent people, maybe I am just damn lucky
to know people who take the time to understand and acknowledge the good from the bad.
They do not lump those who honor the flag for the right reasons with those who don't.
Smart enough to try to know the individual behind the story, the memory, the ancestor,
the battle, the flag, and the love. I have been blessed to know and love some incredible people
with open minds and open hearts.

and the rest of us who dislike the flag attract morons because we are unlucky for not knowing intellectual people like yourself?

There's a saying that goes something like this: You can't reason with the unreasonable

Leezestarr313

chadwick wrote:

my family was toasted in ovens & thrown in gas chambers & starved to death. i can't bring myself to view the nazi & ss symbols as positive family heritage memorabilia.

I am sorry to hear about your family, chadwick. And I agree with you. I am German and seeing people "honoring" the Nazi symbols or even any kind of display of "pride and honor" in general gives me cold shivers and feelings of shame and disgust. German law outlawed the use of symbols of unconstitutional organisations. The law prohibits the distribution or public use of symbols of unconstitutional groups, in particular, flags, insignia, uniforms, slogans and forms of greeting. This concerns Nazi symbolism in particular. Germans who feel the need to display that stuff anyways usually have a distorted idea of German past or/ and their brains are washed by "political leaders" with questionable ideals and plans.

I have yet to read more about the confederate flag. I have seen it popping up, but I don't know enough about it to have a proper discussion.

I know that I am not a flag person.

chadwick

Leezestarr313 wrote:

chadwick wrote:

my family was toasted in ovens & thrown in gas chambers & starved to death. i can't bring myself to view the nazi & ss symbols as positive family heritage memorabilia.

I am sorry to hear about your family, chadwick. And I agree with you. I am German and seeing people "honoring" the Nazi symbols or even any kind of display of "pride and honor" in general gives me cold shivers and feelings of shame and disgust. German law outlawed the use of symbols of unconstitutional organisations. The law prohibits the distribution or public use of symbols of unconstitutional groups, in particular, flags, insignia, uniforms, slogans and forms of greeting. This concerns Nazi symbolism in particular. Germans who display that stuff anyways usually have a distorted idea of German past or/ and their brains are washed by "political leaders" with questionable ideals and plans.

I have yet to read more about the confederate flag. I have seen it popping up, but I don't know enough about it to have a proper discussion.

I know that I am not a flag person.

we're cool, you & i. i think you're alright. in all honesty i'd be freaked out of my mind setting foot in germany. i am working on peace & love everyday. they (the germans) only destroyed my immediate relatives. if black diamond can do it, so can i.

symbols of hate get under some people's skin.

when i see SS or Nazi signs i feel instant feelings of the following all at once: sadness, grief, dislike, contempt, scared, & so on. mostly i want to flee as quickly as i can to avoid the person or persons


but hey mom's family are viking barbarians who probably lit some folks on fire and or burnt a few villages to the ground soooooo .... the truth is all people have the ability of sucking big time not just bullshit nazis

Go Beavers

pandora wrote:

Happy to report, it is an untruth that all black people view those who display
and honor the confederate flag as being antagonistic or offensive.

Perhaps I attract positive intelligent people, maybe I am just damn lucky
to know people who take the time to understand and acknowledge the good from the bad.
They do not lump those who honor the flag for the right reasons with those who don't.
Smart enough to try to know the individual behind the story, the memory, the ancestor,
the battle, the flag, and the love. I have been blessed to know and love some incredible people
with open minds and open hearts.

Sorry, but the Confederate flag is largely seen as a symbol of racism, slavery, and hatred. Anyone who displays the flag outside of historical context know this and likely says something to themselves like "I don't give a shit" before showing their shirt, flag, or sticker. These people are either jerks, or racist jerks.

JonnyPistachio

pandora wrote:

Happy to report, it is an untruth that all black people view those who display
and honor the confederate flag as being antagonistic or offensive.

Perhaps I attract positive intelligent people, maybe I am just damn lucky
to know people who take the time to understand and acknowledge the good from the bad.
They do not lump those who honor the flag for the right reasons with those who don't.
Smart enough to try to know the individual behind the story, the memory, the ancestor,
the battle, the flag, and the love. I have been blessed to know and love some incredible people
with open minds and open hearts.

Off all the people in the USA that display the confederate flag, What do you honestly believe is the percentage of people who do so because of heritage/honoring people who died in the civil war?

the wolf

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Off all the people in the USA that display the confederate flag, What do you honestly believe is the percentage of people who do so because of heritage/honoring people who died in the civil war?

And really,... who the hell honors people in their family that are 5 grandfathers away???

I know who my dad's dad was. I have no clue who his dad's, dad was, let alone his dad's, dad's, dads, dads, dad.

At that point it's so far down the family tree that's it's not like your even related. Only in name at that point.

So i call bullshit on the "honoring family who died in the civil war".

Really? Does anyone else here really give a shit about what their great, great, great, great, great grandfather did in life???

Maybe i just have no sense of heritage? Maybe i'm alone on this?

rollings

Leezestarr313 wrote:

I am German and seeing people "honoring" the Nazi symbols or even any kind of display of "pride and honor" in general gives me cold shivers and feelings of shame and disgust.

I feel the same way as a white american with regard to slavery.

It's embarassing

callen

the wolf wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Off all the people in the USA that display the confederate flag, What do you honestly believe is the percentage of people who do so because of heritage/honoring people who died in the civil war?

And really,... who the hell honors people in their family that are 5 grandfathers away???

I know who my dad's dad was. I have no clue who his dad's, dad was, let alone his dad's, dad's, dads, dads, dad.

At that point it's so far down the family tree that's it's not like your even related. Only in name at that point.

So i call bullshit on the "honoring family who died in the civil war".

Really? Does anyone else here really give a shit about what their great, great, great, great, great grandfather did in life???

Maybe i just have no sense of heritage? Maybe i'm alone on this?

I have confederate soldiers as neighbors. Live next to cemetary and family of those solders (old area family cemetary) have confederate flags next to tombstones. None of the family members that visit, road dead ends into cemetary and I'm last house before, have pick up trucks and or sport any southern gear other than having small confederate flags on graves.

I beleive all humans want to be part of a group, be it university, country, what you drive/ride (Harley) or whatever (PJ Fans). Natural instinct so can see some having pride in the south and having this flag to identify with this pride. Now I also realize that many of the trucks I see that have confederate flags along with, "Impeach Obama" and "Take it" may not have wonderful thoughts of other races...

chadwick

the wolf wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Off all the people in the USA that display the confederate flag, What do you honestly believe is the percentage of people who do so because of heritage/honoring people who died in the civil war?

And really,... who the hell honors people in their family that are 5 grandfathers away???

I know who my dad's dad was. I have no clue who his dad's, dad was, let alone his dad's, dad's, dads, dads, dad.

At that point it's so far down the family tree that's it's not like your even related. Only in name at that point.

So i call bullshit on the "honoring family who died in the civil war".

Really? Does anyone else here really give a shit about what their great, great, great, great, great grandfather did in life???

Maybe i just have no sense of heritage? Maybe i'm alone on this?

you're not alone. it is ignorant to wave a rebel flag saying you are honoring your dead dead dead dead dead great great great great GREAT grandfather