confederate flag: offensive or historical?

rollings

Cosmo wrote:

In this case, the confederate flag is the stupid flag....and look how high they wave it!

pandora

hedonist wrote:

I think family history is interesting - some of it affects my life, some doesn't. Some facts I wish I didn't know and others, like discovering that my great-grandfather was the physician to the royal court in Iran, are pretty fucking cool.

I carry their blood in me, maybe even some of their traits or neuroses or mindsets that were passed on through the years. I want to know how they lived, how they struggled, how they celebrated, how they passed their time...what daily "normal" life was like so long ago.

Ever look at old OLD family photos and see yourself looking back at yourself?

Wild.

this is beautiful hedonist ...

I get it all and yes I have.

Cosmo

chadwick wrote:

Also, Civil War re-enactors are the same as Live Action Role Playing (except the LARPers get to see cleavage):
This:

VS. This

cleavage or a hairy bastard beating a drum? simple choice as we already know who won

...
I don't think Civil War re-enactors should make fun of LARPers... and vice versa.
But.. the LARPers do have this:

...
The downside being... LARPer dudes only complain that this armor is completely impractical... especially when encountering a 3rd degree GORT Master with a thunder force bo staff. Full dragonscale vestaments with a elf crafted chain mail vest is what you need... DUH.

chadwick

cosmo..
you're good. that cracks me up

redrock

I'm with you hedonist. Our family (on my Dad's side) has been traced back to the beginning of the 11th century. Not all a pretty history either. To a point where the family banner & crest had a couple of elements removed/changed following some 'darker' times and actions. The banner, as it stood initially, came to represent these and the local population found it quite offensive. Maybe a bit like what the confederate flag has come to represent hate and racism and is understood as a symbol of this by the large majority.

And when it comes to staring at myself on an old photo.. I have a 19th century photo of a group of people in front of a tipi. A young girl (probably in her mid teens) is my spitting image - except a bit more tanned. Eerie...

Byrnzie

pandora wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

A civil war reenactment isn't quite the same thing as someone wearing a t-shirt with it on, or as a bunch of goons driving around with the flag on their car. The flag represents racism and slavery. And though not every Confederate soldier fought for those reasons, the remembering and/or honouring of those soldiers doesn't require any flying of that flag.

The people I know wear, display, march with the flag in reenactments proudly
not based in hate or any prejudice.
But you will assume what you will because you know best about people, I guess.

Are any of those people black?

Byrnzie

mikepegg44 wrote:

Symbols meanings change over time. The swastika didn't always come with Nazis..

Yes it did. The upside down Swastika, that is.

Byrnzie

MotoDC wrote:

Ok now this thread has just taken a turn for the bizarre. Byrnzie is referencing the holocaust to prove a point?

Why is that bizarre?

Oh, I forgot...I'm a Nazi, Jew Hater, right?

Jason P

rollings wrote:

that's just a stunt general lee

ahhhhhh ..... the ol switcharoo!

Byrnzie

pandora wrote:

Hey Jonny you know me ...
I will believe based on who I know that there are many being misjudged.
I don't think the people I know are special. I think that people assume so much about
others that is negative. It seems to be always a leap to that. Not only on this subject
but so many. Why is that?

This thread is now all about one person, again.

I'm out of here.

Jeanwah

Kind of surprised a lot of people aren't into genealogy. It's quite fascinating to know the where you come from! But I resemble very few of my ancestors, as I was the odd ball that my family regarded as the mail man's kid.

But it's cool to know all the dark secrets. Unless it's a secret that's shameful, it's all really just interesting how people evolve, the whole science behind it. My aunt just received an official Native American status since family was from Labrador, Canada. We always knew we had Eskimo in us, and to find out even more history is pretty grounding. However being Eskimo and being a racist Confederate are two completely different things. (in no way insinuating that all Confederates are racist).

brianlux

Jeanwah wrote:

Kind of surprised a lot of people aren't into genealogy. It's quite fascinating to know the where you come from! But I resemble very few of my ancestors, as I was the odd ball that my family regarded as the mail man's kid.

But it's cool to know all the dark secrets. Unless it's a secret that's shameful, it's all really just interesting how people evolve, the whole science behind it. My aunt just received an official Native American status since family was from Labrador, Canada. We always knew we had Eskimo in us, and to find out even more history is pretty grounding. However being Eskimo and being a racist Confederate are two completely different things. (in no way insinuating that all Confederates are racist).

I very into genealogy, Jeanwah, and not at all ashamed of my ancestors. Here (in the middle) is my great to the 150th power grandfather and two of his cousins:

Byrnzie

brianlux wrote:

I very into genealogy, Jeanwah, and not at all ashamed of my ancestors. Here (in the middle) is my great to the 150th power grandfather and two of his cousins:

Wait a minute! That's my great to the 150th power grandfather and two of his cousins!

Byrnzie

Apparently 1 in 200 of men are direct descendents of Genghis Khan: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/ ... Y2nI0qeIdU

hedonist

pandora wrote:

this is beautiful hedonist ...

I get it all and yes I have.

Thank you.

redrock, amazing you can go back that far...and the banner / crest evolution is interesting, especially in light of the topic.

Jeanwah, when my Persian mom would go out with me when I was little (light coloring from my German father), I got the mailman thing too

brianlux

Byrnzie wrote:

brianlux wrote:

I very into genealogy, Jeanwah, and not at all ashamed of my ancestors. Here (in the middle) is my great to the 150th power grandfather and two of his cousins:

Wait a minute! That's my great to the 150th power grandfather and two of his cousins!

Well hi there, brother!

october22

I don't think the kid should get suspended for it. I believe it falls under reasonable expression. I do, however, object to the flag. How could anyone not? It represents a horrible time in our history. It doesn't represent southern pride, it represents treason. People should be challenged for wearing it or flying it. It's worse than flag burning because it's not a political protest, it represents the desire to dissolve the Union.

peacefrompaul

no suspension... I think the flag is a piece of shit, but it's your choice to fly it, where it on your shirt, etc.

JonnyPistachio

pandora wrote:

I try to answer unless I can tell someone is being antagonistic with a less than pure motive
which wouldn't be you.

Do you have Civil War Reenactments in Florida? I don't know if you do.
Have you visited the websites? seen the number of people participating?
These are just active members, consider the many others enjoying
of the same frame of mind and heart.

I do not believe it is slim at all. I believe those who hate are in slim pickings myself.
I will always believe this. I think there is a hell of a lot of negativity and assuming going on.

The nice people I know who should not be hated might be catching crap.
Some can not tell the difference nor would take the time too.
Seems strange to me to cry hate then hate yourself. You better be really sure who you are hating
and if they deserve it.

Antagonistic? No, just curious if you realized how small a percentage of people that civil war reenact era probably are when talking about the confederate flag. Asi said earlier, I've known dozens and dozens of people who display the confederat flag, and most seem to have an issue with black people. These are my experiences through south Florida, Gainesville Florida, and Jacksonville Florida. I even knew a few involved with the KKk. I had a friend whose assigned roommate in college had a confederate flag, and he went out one Friday night to "find some n#%*#rs to beat up." But I do have one friend whose grandfather does civil war reenactments. He's alright I think. But in my experiences and most I know, this is a tiny percentage of confederate flag wavers. The rest of the folks I've come across in life who display the flag, make me wanna vomit. If you can't understand where that dislike comes from, I don't know what to tell you. If you see racism and disgusting acts from people your whole life and they tend to identify with that flag,it's no surprise that it can be somewhat associated with hate. It was brought on by MOST of the people who use it to identify themselves.

chadwick

Byrnzie wrote:

Apparently 1 in 200 of men are direct descendents of Genghis Khan: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/ ... Y2nI0qeIdU

i heard that the other week ago


also i am sorry if i was a dick yesterday saying genealogy is bullshit. i can admit my wrongs. some of you bring out my amazing qualities that's all.

genghis khan is probably my favorite badass of all time.


"The greatest joy for a man is to defeat his enemies, to drive them before him, to take from them all they possess, to see those they love in tears, to ride their horses, and to hold their wives and daughters in his arms."