Choose to experience something different? I don't understand that. I CHOOSE to understand the history of both the flag and unconstitutional secession of 11 states, states that CHOSE to disregard the Constitution.
Are you only understanding that though and perhaps not how individual people feel?
I ask because of my life experience.
I might have once been this judgmental to assume no one should proudly fly that flag
then I met some folks and learned the reason they fly it.
I learned why they dress like their ancestors and walk in pride in reenactments, honoring
people not the event nor what brought it, but souls whose lives were cut short.
Whether I agree with what happened those many years ago or not I will always stand by those
who honor others today and try to understand how they all feel and not judge them
for the flag they love.
Choose to experience something different? I don't understand that. I CHOOSE to understand the history of both the flag and unconstitutional secession of 11 states, states that CHOSE to disregard the Constitution.
Are you only understanding that though and perhaps not how individual people feel?
I ask because of my life experience.
I might have once been this judgmental to assume no one should proudly fly that flag
then I met some folks and learned the reason they fly it.
I learned why they dress like their ancestors and walk in pride in reenactments, honoring
people not the event nor what brought it, but souls whose lives were cut short.
Whether I agree with what happened those many years ago or not I will always stand by those
who honor others today and try to understand how they all feel and not judge them
for the flag they love.
Kind of like you are judging me? Please put me on ignore and stop responding to my posts and I will extend you the same courtesy.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
Choose to experience something different? I don't understand that. I CHOOSE to understand the history of both the flag and unconstitutional secession of 11 states, states that CHOSE to disregard the Constitution.
Are you only understanding that though and perhaps not how individual people feel?
I ask because of my life experience.
I might have once been this judgmental to assume no one should proudly fly that flag
then I met some folks and learned the reason they fly it.
I learned why they dress like their ancestors and walk in pride in reenactments, honoring
people not the event nor what brought it, but souls whose lives were cut short.
Whether I agree with what happened those many years ago or not I will always stand by those
who honor others today and try to understand how they all feel and not judge them
for the flag they love.
Kind of like you are judging me? Please put me on ignore and stop responding to my posts and I will extend you the same courtesy.
Our life experiences, our interactions, make us who we are and give us our opinions.
Yours is very different than mine on this subject.
It appears you have made up your mind about all people who display this flag
and choose to ignore their individual motives. They should not for any reason display this flag.
I disagree is all.
We will agree to disagree and if you do not quote me in the future I will not quote you either.
That flag from the civil war represents a large group of people who hate anyone that is not a "white, male, American"
It represents ignorance at a level that has allowed politicians to convince their supporters to believe that money is more important than the life of any human being
And the confederate flag is really fucking awful, too
The whole world will be different soon... - EV
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
Whether I agree with what happened those many years ago or not I will always stand by those
who honor others today and try to understand how they all feel and not judge them
for the flag they love.
Do you also stand by those who honour the memory of the Waffen S.S, who fought to wipe all Jews from the face of the Earth?
Do you stand by these people and try to understand how they feel, and not judge them for the flag/symbol they love?
This is the symbol they love, and the Swastika is the flag they love. My question is a serious one and not meant to be offensive. How far does this fluffy notion of yours extend? Or is it merely limited to some (the Confederates), and not others?
Anyone know the flag/symbol of the KKK?
Does your heart reach out to those who honour the memory of these Crucifix-burning gimps too?
Whether I agree with what happened those many years ago or not I will always stand by those
who honor others today and try to understand how they all feel and not judge them
for the flag they love.
Do you also stand by those who honour the memory of the Waffen S.S, who fought to wipe all Jews from the face of the Earth?
Do you stand by these people and try to understand how they feel, and not judge them for the flag they love?
This is the symbol they love, and the Swastika is the flag they love. My question is a serious one. How far does this fluffy notion of yours extend? Or is it merely limited to some (the Confederates), and not others?
Anyone know the flag/symbol of the KKK?
Does your heart reach out to those who honour the memory of these Crucifix-burning gimps too?
man really ? why do you even ask and compare these two events ? this line of defense and answering questions with questions sounds like you have run out of ammo ...so to speak.
Whether I agree with what happened those many years ago or not I will always stand by those
who honor others today and try to understand how they all feel and not judge them
for the flag they love.
Do you also stand by those who honour the memory of the Waffen S.S, who fought to wipe all Jews from the face of the Earth?
Do you stand by these people and try to understand how they feel, and not judge them for the flag/symbol they love?
This is the symbol they love, and the Swastika is the flag they love. My question is a serious one and not meant to be offensive. How far does this fluffy notion of yours extend? Or is it merely limited to some (the Confederates), and not others?
Anyone know the flag/symbol of the KKK?
Does your heart reach out to those who honour the memory of these Crucifix-burning gimps too?
Would you know offensive if it slapped you upside the head :?
I think "fluffy notion" is offensive. I think it belittles my opinion, my life lessons
and the people I have met who fly the flag for loved ones lost,
that you would prejudge for doing so.
So it seems it is a fail agan for you if indeed you were attempting not to be offensive
to me and others who have known good people who walk proudly with that flag.
So it seems it is a fail agan for you if indeed you were attempting not to be offensive
to me and others who have known good people who walk proudly with that flag.
Which flag? The Confederate flag, or the Waffen S.S?
So it seems it is a fail agan for you if indeed you were attempting not to be offensive
to me and others who have known good people who walk proudly with that flag.
Which flag? The Confederate flag, or the Waffen S.S?
So it seems it is a fail agan for you if indeed you were attempting not to be offensive
to me and others who have known good people who walk proudly with that flag.
Which flag? The Confederate flag, or the Waffen S.S?
The one on topic
My point is; is their any limit at which you would refrain from standing 'by those who honor others today...and not judge them for the flag they love'? Or would you extend the same courtesy to Nazis and Klansmen?
I think the majority of people in the US associate the confederate flag with something negative. And I agree, some folks do this (such as people Pandora has met) who want to show their heritage and respect their fallen family members from 150 years ago. Yes, that's 150+ years ago.. This is a very, very minute percentage. And those folks who chose to fly this flag, do so knowing that they may be tossed in a group of folks who are considered supporters of slavery. Personally, if I was feeling the urge to respect my fallen, great, great, great, great grandfather, I think i could find another way than risk being lumped in with racists and good ol boys.
Every single person i've ever met who proudly displayed a confederate flag had a real problem with black people. Simple as that/ But that's just my experiences.
i don't know why anyone would fly a flag for an army or nation that got destroyed in a war in the first place. why fly a nazi flag? why fly the confederate flag? why, after the american revolution, would any americans fly the union jack? unless you are making some kind of statement.
to me it seems like a bunch of cubs fans who still wear the jerseys with pride given their futility over the years.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
man really ? why do you even ask and compare these two events ? this line of defense and answering questions with questions sounds like you have run out of ammo ...so to speak.
Godfather.
This is the crux of her argument: 'I will always stand by those who honor others today and try to understand how they all feel,'
I'm simply putting her theory to the test so as to see how it stands up from a wider perspective. Personally, I think it holds no water, and crumbles at the slightest scrutiny.
An interesting aside to the song which is about Paisley, in real life, getting judged for wearing a shirt with the Confederate flag on it. The song sucks but this discussion about the underlying problem with the flag itself was really interesting. It was argued that the underlying problem with this entire issue about the flag is our inability, or unwillingness, to discuss the racial tensions that still exist in this country today. Perhaps that's much of our problem within this thread is that what we are really arguing has to do with our view of people as racist or not.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
man really ? why do you even ask and compare these two events ? this line of defense and answering questions with questions sounds like you have run out of ammo ...so to speak.
Godfather.
This is the crux of her argument: 'I will always stand by those who honor others today and try to understand how they all feel,'
I'm simply putting her theory to the test so as to see how it stands up from a wider perspective. Personally, I think it holds no water, and crumbles at the slightest scrutiny.
My personal experience being here in Georgia for 22 years now has enlightened
both my heart and mind to what we are discussing. As far as your other examples to try
to crumble my theory :? why bother?...
I haven't had any life lessons with Nazi's or the KKK ...
go figure
I have had experiences with many who fly the flag for noble honorable reasons that some
may be too judgmental to recognize. It's important to keep your heart open to other's hearts
and not just assume their motives are negative.
Those who are involved in Civil War reenactments or are history buffs or have ancestors
who bravely fought and gave their lives are not motivated by hate quite the opposite.
man really ? why do you even ask and compare these two events ? this line of defense and answering questions with questions sounds like you have run out of ammo ...so to speak.
Godfather.
This is the crux of her argument: 'I will always stand by those who honor others today and try to understand how they all feel,'
I'm simply putting her theory to the test so as to see how it stands up from a wider perspective. Personally, I think it holds no water, and crumbles at the slightest scrutiny.
My personal experience being here in Georgia for 22 years now has enlightened
both my heart and mind to what we are discussing. As far as your other examples to try
to crumble my theory :? why bother?...
I haven't had any life lessons with Nazi's or the KKK ...
go figure
I have had experiences with many who fly the flag for noble honorable reasons that some
may be too judgmental to recognize. It's important to keep your heart open to other's hearts
and not just assume their motives are negative.
Those who are involved in Civil War reenactments or are history buffs or have ancestors
who bravely fought and gave their lives are not motivated by hate quite the opposite.
A civil war reenactment isn't quite the same thing as someone wearing a t-shirt with it on, or as a bunch of goons driving around with the flag on their car. The flag represents racism and slavery. And though not every Confederate soldier fought for those reasons, the remembering and/or honouring of those soldiers doesn't require any flying of that flag.
A civil war reenactment isn't quite the same thing as someone wearing a t-shirt with it on, or as a bunch of goons driving around with the flag on their car. The flag represents racism and slavery. And though not every Confederate soldier fought for those reasons, the remembering and/or honouring of those soldiers doesn't require any flying of that flag.
The people I know wear, display, march with the flag in reenactments proudly
not based in hate or any prejudice.
But you will assume what you will because you know best about people, I guess.
Symbols meanings change over time. The swastika didn't always come with Nazis. This one changed when it became synonymous with White supremacy after the civil war. This flag may have represented the south in a war, and some may still choose to look at it historically, but the symbol for many more is that it represents a feeling of superiority in one race.
The more I have thought about this, the more I realize that symbols are only given power when we choose to give it to them.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I think the majority of people in the US associate the confederate flag with something negative. And I agree, some folks do this (such as people Pandora has met) who want to show their heritage and respect their fallen family members from 150 years ago. Yes, that's 150+ years ago.. This is a very, very minute percentage. And those folks who chose to fly this flag, do so knowing that they may be tossed in a group of folks who are considered supporters of slavery. Personally, if I was feeling the urge to respect my fallen, great, great, great, great grandfather, I think i could find another way than risk being lumped in with racists and good ol boys.
Every single person i've ever met who proudly displayed a confederate flag had a real problem with black people. Simple as that/ But that's just my experiences.
fact. every single person who displays a rebel flag is a straight up moron & i would not ever call them my friend. every rebel flag waver i have ever known uses the N-word as common talk & they truly dislike dark colored folks & & & rebel flag wavers are extremely uneducated people as well. these are my experiences
rebel flag wavers are generally associated with the aryan brotherhood. maybe not every single stupid shit confederate flag waver is associated with the aryan nation but you can bet your butt 82.7% are involved with the hate group.
man really ? why do you even ask and compare these two events ? this line of defense and answering questions with questions sounds like you have run out of ammo ...so to speak.
Godfather.
...
Actually, sir... it IS consistant with the ongoing conversation.
Both are symbols that have both historical and societal interpretations. The Waffen SS DID wear this insignia on their uniforms, helmets and they had a seperate banner. That is a historical fact.
Now, on the other hand, it represents a time in human history that highlights man's ability to commit horrific acts against other men, in the name of National Pride, racism, etc... When waved today, at a political rally in the streets of a U.S. city... it takes on a completely different meaning that it did by the men who wore this symbol.
The Confederate Battle flag is no different. It represented the Confederacy during a Civil War in 1864... something with historical context. Waving the Confederate battle flag at a political rally in the streets of a U.S. city.. in 2013... takes on a completely different meaning.
...
As for the ancestors of fallen soldiers... many Germans lost their lives in defense of a way of living they wanted to endure. No one can tell me that to see the grandson of an SS officer killed in Stalingrad wearing a t-shirt with the Waffen SS insignia on it would not interpret that as 'honoring his family'.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
If you believe the people who fly the Confederate flag are doing so out of support for or reverence for or respect for the Confederate side in a war that fought for states' rights, then why don't those people fly their state flag instead?
That's a good question. You'd rarely see a Texan flying the confederate flag, for example.
i know a dude w/ a rebel flag hanging on his bedroom wall. he was meeting a lady of darker skin at his home to hook her up with a green sack. she had a problem w/ him at an earlier encounter where he used the N-word & not in a hateful manner but casually & it did not make her to thrilled but she blew it off.
once at his place he's getting her hooked up nicely when she sees the flag hanging there on his wall, without a word she slipped out the front door leaving him scratching his head with her green sack in hand.
the rebel flag is a disgusting symbol just exactly like the SS & Nazi symbols. people who are hated upon do not like these shallow ignorant people nor do they enjoy their flags & other memorabilia
Comments
I ask because of my life experience.
I might have once been this judgmental to assume no one should proudly fly that flag
then I met some folks and learned the reason they fly it.
I learned why they dress like their ancestors and walk in pride in reenactments, honoring
people not the event nor what brought it, but souls whose lives were cut short.
Whether I agree with what happened those many years ago or not I will always stand by those
who honor others today and try to understand how they all feel and not judge them
for the flag they love.
Kind of like you are judging me? Please put me on ignore and stop responding to my posts and I will extend you the same courtesy.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
Yours is very different than mine on this subject.
It appears you have made up your mind about all people who display this flag
and choose to ignore their individual motives. They should not for any reason display this flag.
I disagree is all.
We will agree to disagree and if you do not quote me in the future I will not quote you either.
It represents ignorance at a level that has allowed politicians to convince their supporters to believe that money is more important than the life of any human being
And the confederate flag is really fucking awful, too
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
Godfather.
Do you also stand by those who honour the memory of the Waffen S.S, who fought to wipe all Jews from the face of the Earth?
Do you stand by these people and try to understand how they feel, and not judge them for the flag/symbol they love?
This is the symbol they love, and the Swastika is the flag they love. My question is a serious one and not meant to be offensive. How far does this fluffy notion of yours extend? Or is it merely limited to some (the Confederates), and not others?
Anyone know the flag/symbol of the KKK?
Does your heart reach out to those who honour the memory of these Crucifix-burning gimps too?
man really ? why do you even ask and compare these two events ? this line of defense and answering questions with questions sounds like you have run out of ammo ...so to speak.
Godfather.
I think "fluffy notion" is offensive. I think it belittles my opinion, my life lessons
and the people I have met who fly the flag for loved ones lost,
that you would prejudge for doing so.
So it seems it is a fail agan for you if indeed you were attempting not to be offensive
to me and others who have known good people who walk proudly with that flag.
Which flag? The Confederate flag, or the Waffen S.S?
My point is; is their any limit at which you would refrain from standing 'by those who honor others today...and not judge them for the flag they love'? Or would you extend the same courtesy to Nazis and Klansmen?
And I would like to hear a fact-based reply, please.
if that flag does not represent those things, why do people who fly that flag allow those groups to fly it?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Every single person i've ever met who proudly displayed a confederate flag had a real problem with black people. Simple as that/ But that's just my experiences.
to me it seems like a bunch of cubs fans who still wear the jerseys with pride given their futility over the years.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
This is the crux of her argument: 'I will always stand by those who honor others today and try to understand how they all feel,'
I'm simply putting her theory to the test so as to see how it stands up from a wider perspective. Personally, I think it holds no water, and crumbles at the slightest scrutiny.
An interesting aside to the song which is about Paisley, in real life, getting judged for wearing a shirt with the Confederate flag on it. The song sucks but this discussion about the underlying problem with the flag itself was really interesting. It was argued that the underlying problem with this entire issue about the flag is our inability, or unwillingness, to discuss the racial tensions that still exist in this country today. Perhaps that's much of our problem within this thread is that what we are really arguing has to do with our view of people as racist or not.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
but to say that is what everyone is doing is so far off base.
And allow? :?
both my heart and mind to what we are discussing. As far as your other examples to try
to crumble my theory :? why bother?...
I haven't had any life lessons with Nazi's or the KKK ...
go figure
I have had experiences with many who fly the flag for noble honorable reasons that some
may be too judgmental to recognize. It's important to keep your heart open to other's hearts
and not just assume their motives are negative.
Those who are involved in Civil War reenactments or are history buffs or have ancestors
who bravely fought and gave their lives are not motivated by hate quite the opposite.
A civil war reenactment isn't quite the same thing as someone wearing a t-shirt with it on, or as a bunch of goons driving around with the flag on their car. The flag represents racism and slavery. And though not every Confederate soldier fought for those reasons, the remembering and/or honouring of those soldiers doesn't require any flying of that flag.
not based in hate or any prejudice.
But you will assume what you will because you know best about people, I guess.
Symbols meanings change over time. The swastika didn't always come with Nazis. This one changed when it became synonymous with White supremacy after the civil war. This flag may have represented the south in a war, and some may still choose to look at it historically, but the symbol for many more is that it represents a feeling of superiority in one race.
The more I have thought about this, the more I realize that symbols are only given power when we choose to give it to them.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
We saw it on cnn student news the other day. It was somehwere in missouri. But here's some others:
http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2011 ... ed_ov.html
http://www.abc57.com/home/top-stories/R ... 08393.html
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/T ... ehYyA.cspx
http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2012 ... ension.php
fact. every single person who displays a rebel flag is a straight up moron & i would not ever call them my friend. every rebel flag waver i have ever known uses the N-word as common talk & they truly dislike dark colored folks & & & rebel flag wavers are extremely uneducated people as well. these are my experiences
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Actually, sir... it IS consistant with the ongoing conversation.
Both are symbols that have both historical and societal interpretations. The Waffen SS DID wear this insignia on their uniforms, helmets and they had a seperate banner. That is a historical fact.
Now, on the other hand, it represents a time in human history that highlights man's ability to commit horrific acts against other men, in the name of National Pride, racism, etc... When waved today, at a political rally in the streets of a U.S. city... it takes on a completely different meaning that it did by the men who wore this symbol.
The Confederate Battle flag is no different. It represented the Confederacy during a Civil War in 1864... something with historical context. Waving the Confederate battle flag at a political rally in the streets of a U.S. city.. in 2013... takes on a completely different meaning.
...
As for the ancestors of fallen soldiers... many Germans lost their lives in defense of a way of living they wanted to endure. No one can tell me that to see the grandson of an SS officer killed in Stalingrad wearing a t-shirt with the Waffen SS insignia on it would not interpret that as 'honoring his family'.
Hail, Hail!!!
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
i know a dude w/ a rebel flag hanging on his bedroom wall. he was meeting a lady of darker skin at his home to hook her up with a green sack. she had a problem w/ him at an earlier encounter where he used the N-word & not in a hateful manner but casually & it did not make her to thrilled but she blew it off.
once at his place he's getting her hooked up nicely when she sees the flag hanging there on his wall, without a word she slipped out the front door leaving him scratching his head with her green sack in hand.
the rebel flag is a disgusting symbol just exactly like the SS & Nazi symbols. people who are hated upon do not like these shallow ignorant people nor do they enjoy their flags & other memorabilia
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce