confederate flag: offensive or historical?

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Comments

  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    Thanks to a wonderfully generous and knowledgable person here on the board
    I received an awesome package in the mail some time back. I enjoyed the materials
    and it sparked an interest in me to know more about those times we speak of.
    To learn about Georgia's battles and subsequently meeting some awesome people.

    History is a subject I didn't pay much attention to until I started tracing my own family tree,
    silly me.Then I received my gift box and it's been a trip! I am grateful for every person
    who has taken me on it.
    There is no way I can look at those taking pride in the battle flag as something negative,
    not after learning how they feel about it. They are some of the most positive loving people
    you'd ever want to meet.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    chadwick wrote:
    quick story

    i know a dude w/ a rebel flag hanging on his bedroom wall. he was meeting a lady of darker skin at his home to hook her up with a green sack. she had a problem w/ him at an earlier encounter where he used the N-word & not in a hateful manner but casually & it did not make her to thrilled but she blew it off.

    once at his place he's getting her hooked up nicely when she sees the flag hanging there on his wall, without a word she slipped out the front door leaving him scratching his head with her green sack in hand.

    the rebel flag is a disgusting symbol just exactly like the SS & Nazi symbols. people who are hated upon do not like these shallow ignorant people nor do they enjoy their flags & other memorabilia
    ...
    When i was little.. like real little... I had a friend who was German. His dad served in WWII as a soldier. Their den was.. well, kind of awesome. He had a bunch of guns on the wall and a bunch of helmets and a big German (swastika) Flag. To a little kid... this was fucking cool.
    We'd take some of the guns, hide them under our shirts and slipped past his stay at home mom to go outside and play army in the vacant lots. i vividly remember trying to pull the trigger of a Luger with a little swastika on the handle, but being 5 years old... not enough hand strength. I also remmeber the helmets... there were a couple we were allowed to play with... some of them had bullet holes in them.
    Anyway, the point is... in this context, the display of a flag under which this man served as a soldier... I get it.
    But, if he were to step outside of his house an wave it on June 6th, 2013 (even in a memorial tribute to the men who died along side him in defense of the bluffs over Omaha Beach)... it woul totally be wrong.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    pandora wrote:
    Thanks to a wonderfully generous and knowledgable person here on the board
    I received an awesome package in the mail some time back. I enjoyed the materials
    and it sparked an interest in me to know more about those times we speak of.
    To learn about Georgia's battles and subsequently meeting some awesome people.

    History is a subject I didn't pay much attention to until I started tracing my own family tree,
    silly me.Then I received my gift box and it's been a trip! I am grateful for every person
    who has taken me on it.
    There is no way I can look at those taking pride in the battle flag as something negative,
    not after learning how they feel about it. They are some of the most positive loving people
    you'd ever want to meet.
    my family was toasted in ovens & thrown in gas chambers & starved to death. i can't bring myself to view the nazi & ss symbols as positive family heritage memorabilia. this is how dark skinned folks feel about the rebel flag, pandora.
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • MotoDCMotoDC Posts: 947
    you might want to check yourself
    Before I wreck myself?
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    Happy to report, it is an untruth that all black people view those who display
    and honor the confederate flag as being antagonistic or offensive.

    Perhaps I attract positive intelligent people, maybe I am just damn lucky
    to know people who take the time to understand and acknowledge the good from the bad.
    They do not lump those who honor the flag for the right reasons with those who don't.
    Smart enough to try to know the individual behind the story, the memory, the ancestor,
    the battle, the flag, and the love. I have been blessed to know and love some incredible people
    with open minds and open hearts.
  • MotoDCMotoDC Posts: 947
    Byrnzie wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    Whether I agree with what happened those many years ago or not I will always stand by those
    who honor others today and try to understand how they all feel and not judge them
    for the flag they love.

    Do you also stand by those who honour the memory of the Waffen S.S, who fought to wipe all Jews from the face of the Earth?

    Do you stand by these people and try to understand how they feel, and not judge them for the flag/symbol they love?

    ss-symbol.jpg

    This is the symbol they love, and the Swastika is the flag they love. My question is a serious one and not meant to be offensive. How far does this fluffy notion of yours extend? Or is it merely limited to some (the Confederates), and not others?

    Anyone know the flag/symbol of the KKK?

    Does your heart reach out to those who honour the memory of these Crucifix-burning gimps too?
    Ok now this thread has just taken a turn for the bizarre. Byrnzie is referencing the holocaust to prove a point?
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,156
    MotoDC wrote:
    you might want to check yourself
    Before I wreck myself?
    They better checkity check themselves before they wreck themselves, Cotton
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    Jason P wrote:
    MotoDC wrote:
    you might want to check yourself
    Before I wreck myself?
    They better checkity check themselves before they wreck themselves, Cotton

    there is no better authority on the subject...
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT8GiLpmNBJlnRQa7BNVZRbsXizvs8Guz3-G5Ai8az6bgbGCBwsiA
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • MotoDCMotoDC Posts: 947
    Jason P wrote:
    MotoDC wrote:
    you might want to check yourself
    Before I wreck myself?
    They better checkity check themselves before they wreck themselves, Cotton
    I fully expected no one on a PJ forum to get that. Jason P, thank you.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,010
    edited May 2013
    Offensive.
    A Nazi flag is historical too... does that mean it's okay to string it up? No. Same goes for the Confederate flag. The details of history behind it don't matter (just like if someone said they admired Hitler's economic views that were unrelated to the holocaust). The flag is a symbol of racism (whatever else it might be a symbol of is rendered inconsequential because of that fact).
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    pandora wrote:
    Happy to report, it is an untruth that all black people view those who display
    and honor the confederate flag as being antagonistic or offensive.

    Perhaps I attract positive intelligent people, maybe I am just damn lucky
    to know people who take the time to understand and acknowledge the good from the bad.
    They do not lump those who honor the flag for the right reasons with those who don't.
    Smart enough to try to know the individual behind the story, the memory, the ancestor,
    the battle, the flag, and the love. I have been blessed to know and love some incredible people
    with open minds and open hearts.
    and the rest of us who dislike the flag attract morons because we are unlucky for not knowing intellectual people like yourself?
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • JeanwahJeanwah Posts: 6,363
    edited May 2013
    chadwick wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    Happy to report, it is an untruth that all black people view those who display
    and honor the confederate flag as being antagonistic or offensive.

    Perhaps I attract positive intelligent people, maybe I am just damn lucky
    to know people who take the time to understand and acknowledge the good from the bad.
    They do not lump those who honor the flag for the right reasons with those who don't.
    Smart enough to try to know the individual behind the story, the memory, the ancestor,
    the battle, the flag, and the love. I have been blessed to know and love some incredible people
    with open minds and open hearts.
    and the rest of us who dislike the flag attract morons because we are unlucky for not knowing intellectual people like yourself?

    There's a saying that goes something like this: You can't reason with the unreasonable
    Post edited by Jeanwah on
  • Leezestarr313Leezestarr313 Temple of the cat Posts: 14,374
    chadwick wrote:
    my family was toasted in ovens & thrown in gas chambers & starved to death. i can't bring myself to view the nazi & ss symbols as positive family heritage memorabilia.

    I am sorry to hear about your family, chadwick. And I agree with you. I am German and seeing people "honoring" the Nazi symbols or even any kind of display of "pride and honor" in general gives me cold shivers and feelings of shame and disgust. German law outlawed the use of symbols of unconstitutional organisations. The law prohibits the distribution or public use of symbols of unconstitutional groups, in particular, flags, insignia, uniforms, slogans and forms of greeting. This concerns Nazi symbolism in particular. Germans who feel the need to display that stuff anyways usually have a distorted idea of German past or/ and their brains are washed by "political leaders" with questionable ideals and plans.

    I have yet to read more about the confederate flag. I have seen it popping up, but I don't know enough about it to have a proper discussion.

    I know that I am not a flag person.
  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    chadwick wrote:
    my family was toasted in ovens & thrown in gas chambers & starved to death. i can't bring myself to view the nazi & ss symbols as positive family heritage memorabilia.

    I am sorry to hear about your family, chadwick. And I agree with you. I am German and seeing people "honoring" the Nazi symbols or even any kind of display of "pride and honor" in general gives me cold shivers and feelings of shame and disgust. German law outlawed the use of symbols of unconstitutional organisations. The law prohibits the distribution or public use of symbols of unconstitutional groups, in particular, flags, insignia, uniforms, slogans and forms of greeting. This concerns Nazi symbolism in particular. Germans who display that stuff anyways usually have a distorted idea of German past or/ and their brains are washed by "political leaders" with questionable ideals and plans.

    I have yet to read more about the confederate flag. I have seen it popping up, but I don't know enough about it to have a proper discussion.

    I know that I am not a flag person.
    we're cool, you & i. i think you're alright. in all honesty i'd be freaked out of my mind setting foot in germany. i am working on peace & love everyday. they (the germans) only destroyed my immediate relatives. if black diamond can do it, so can i.

    symbols of hate get under some people's skin.

    when i see SS or Nazi signs i feel instant feelings of the following all at once: sadness, grief, dislike, contempt, scared, & so on. mostly i want to flee as quickly as i can to avoid the person or persons


    but hey mom's family are viking barbarians who probably lit some folks on fire and or burnt a few villages to the ground soooooo .... the truth is all people have the ability of sucking big time not just bullshit nazis
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,190
    pandora wrote:
    Happy to report, it is an untruth that all black people view those who display
    and honor the confederate flag as being antagonistic or offensive.

    Perhaps I attract positive intelligent people, maybe I am just damn lucky
    to know people who take the time to understand and acknowledge the good from the bad.
    They do not lump those who honor the flag for the right reasons with those who don't.
    Smart enough to try to know the individual behind the story, the memory, the ancestor,
    the battle, the flag, and the love. I have been blessed to know and love some incredible people
    with open minds and open hearts.

    Sorry, but the Confederate flag is largely seen as a symbol of racism, slavery, and hatred. Anyone who displays the flag outside of historical context know this and likely says something to themselves like "I don't give a shit" before showing their shirt, flag, or sticker. These people are either jerks, or racist jerks.
  • JonnyPistachioJonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    pandora wrote:
    Happy to report, it is an untruth that all black people view those who display
    and honor the confederate flag as being antagonistic or offensive.

    Perhaps I attract positive intelligent people, maybe I am just damn lucky
    to know people who take the time to understand and acknowledge the good from the bad.
    They do not lump those who honor the flag for the right reasons with those who don't.
    Smart enough to try to know the individual behind the story, the memory, the ancestor,
    the battle, the flag, and the love. I have been blessed to know and love some incredible people
    with open minds and open hearts.

    Off all the people in the USA that display the confederate flag, What do you honestly believe is the percentage of people who do so because of heritage/honoring people who died in the civil war?
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • the wolfthe wolf Posts: 7,027
    Off all the people in the USA that display the confederate flag, What do you honestly believe is the percentage of people who do so because of heritage/honoring people who died in the civil war?

    And really,... who the hell honors people in their family that are 5 grandfathers away???

    I know who my dad's dad was. I have no clue who his dad's, dad was, let alone his dad's, dad's, dads, dads, dad.

    At that point it's so far down the family tree that's it's not like your even related. Only in name at that point.

    So i call bullshit on the "honoring family who died in the civil war".

    Really? Does anyone else here really give a shit about what their great, great, great, great, great grandfather did in life???

    Maybe i just have no sense of heritage? Maybe i'm alone on this?
    Peace, Love.


    "To question your government is not unpatriotic --
    to not question your government is unpatriotic."
    -- Sen. Chuck Hagel
  • rollingsrollings unknown Posts: 7,125
    I am German and seeing people "honoring" the Nazi symbols or even any kind of display of "pride and honor" in general gives me cold shivers and feelings of shame and disgust.

    I feel the same way as a white american with regard to slavery.

    It's embarassing
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    the wolf wrote:
    Off all the people in the USA that display the confederate flag, What do you honestly believe is the percentage of people who do so because of heritage/honoring people who died in the civil war?

    And really,... who the hell honors people in their family that are 5 grandfathers away???

    I know who my dad's dad was. I have no clue who his dad's, dad was, let alone his dad's, dad's, dads, dads, dad.

    At that point it's so far down the family tree that's it's not like your even related. Only in name at that point.

    So i call bullshit on the "honoring family who died in the civil war".

    Really? Does anyone else here really give a shit about what their great, great, great, great, great grandfather did in life???

    Maybe i just have no sense of heritage? Maybe i'm alone on this?

    I have confederate soldiers as neighbors. Live next to cemetary and family of those solders (old area family cemetary) have confederate flags next to tombstones. None of the family members that visit, road dead ends into cemetary and I'm last house before, have pick up trucks and or sport any southern gear other than having small confederate flags on graves.

    I beleive all humans want to be part of a group, be it university, country, what you drive/ride (Harley) or whatever (PJ Fans). Natural instinct so can see some having pride in the south and having this flag to identify with this pride. Now I also realize that many of the trucks I see that have confederate flags along with, "Impeach Obama" and "Take it" may not have wonderful thoughts of other races...
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    the wolf wrote:
    Off all the people in the USA that display the confederate flag, What do you honestly believe is the percentage of people who do so because of heritage/honoring people who died in the civil war?

    And really,... who the hell honors people in their family that are 5 grandfathers away???

    I know who my dad's dad was. I have no clue who his dad's, dad was, let alone his dad's, dad's, dads, dads, dad.

    At that point it's so far down the family tree that's it's not like your even related. Only in name at that point.

    So i call bullshit on the "honoring family who died in the civil war".

    Really? Does anyone else here really give a shit about what their great, great, great, great, great grandfather did in life???

    Maybe i just have no sense of heritage? Maybe i'm alone on this?
    you're not alone. it is ignorant to wave a rebel flag saying you are honoring your dead dead dead dead dead great great great great GREAT grandfather
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    rollings wrote:
    I am German and seeing people "honoring" the Nazi symbols or even any kind of display of "pride and honor" in general gives me cold shivers and feelings of shame and disgust.

    I feel the same way as a white american with regard to slavery.

    It's embarassing
    same here, i am embarrassed about it.
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    Go Beavers wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    Happy to report, it is an untruth that all black people view those who display
    and honor the confederate flag as being antagonistic or offensive.

    Perhaps I attract positive intelligent people, maybe I am just damn lucky
    to know people who take the time to understand and acknowledge the good from the bad.
    They do not lump those who honor the flag for the right reasons with those who don't.
    Smart enough to try to know the individual behind the story, the memory, the ancestor,
    the battle, the flag, and the love. I have been blessed to know and love some incredible people
    with open minds and open hearts.

    Sorry, but the Confederate flag is largely seen as a symbol of racism, slavery, and hatred. Anyone who displays the flag outside of historical context know this and likely says something to themselves like "I don't give a shit" before showing their shirt, flag, or sticker. These people are either jerks, or racist jerks.
    how could anyone wear a rebel flag shirt or sport a sticker of the flag on their hillbilly truck? it is only asking for trouble.
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    pandora wrote:
    Happy to report, it is an untruth that all black people view those who display
    and honor the confederate flag as being antagonistic or offensive.

    Perhaps I attract positive intelligent people, maybe I am just damn lucky
    to know people who take the time to understand and acknowledge the good from the bad.
    They do not lump those who honor the flag for the right reasons with those who don't.
    Smart enough to try to know the individual behind the story, the memory, the ancestor,
    the battle, the flag, and the love. I have been blessed to know and love some incredible people
    with open minds and open hearts.

    Off all the people in the USA that display the confederate flag, What do you honestly believe is the percentage of people who do so because of heritage/honoring people who died in the civil war?
    Hey Jonny you know me ...
    I will believe based on who I know that there are many being misjudged.
    I don't think the people I know are special. I think that people assume so much about
    others that is negative. It seems to be always a leap to that. Not only on this subject
    but so many. Why is that?
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    all this... know it all -finger pointing-judgemental-shit talking-crap over (as someone on here had said in past threads) a flag..."it's only a flag !" :lol: now all the sudden a flag means something to "ya'll" :lol:
    I guess sometimes we just don't understand each other's beliefs and feelings, I don't believe SOUTHERN PRIDE means racism but being from SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA born and raised mind ya,and seeing all kinds of good folks here and sporting flags from everywhere but the good 'ol USA.. is that o.k with you good folks ? I was at the swapmeet a few weeks ago and saw a t-shirt that said "black pride on it"..would ya'll see that as racism ?
    or even a "brown pride" t-shirt..so I kept looking and looking for a "white pride" t-shirt but all I could find was dang ol' CONFEDERATE t-shirt so when I got home with my new shirt on my brown wife said ohhh that's a cute top..... :shock: so I went back and bought a "brown pride" t-shirt....

    :lol::lol::lol::lol:

    Godfather.
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,156
    the wolf wrote:
    Maybe i just have no sense of heritage? Maybe i'm alone on this?
    As far as I know my ancestors passed out on a boat and found themselves on their way to America the next morning. The rest before that is a drunken blur.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    naïve
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    edited May 2013
    Go Beavers wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    Happy to report, it is an untruth that all black people view those who display
    and honor the confederate flag as being antagonistic or offensive.

    Perhaps I attract positive intelligent people, maybe I am just damn lucky
    to know people who take the time to understand and acknowledge the good from the bad.
    They do not lump those who honor the flag for the right reasons with those who don't.
    Smart enough to try to know the individual behind the story, the memory, the ancestor,
    the battle, the flag, and the love. I have been blessed to know and love some incredible people
    with open minds and open hearts.

    Sorry, but the Confederate flag is largely seen as a symbol of racism, slavery, and hatred. Anyone who displays the flag outside of historical context know this and likely says something to themselves like "I don't give a shit" before showing their shirt, flag, or sticker. These people are either jerks, or racist jerks.
    Do you know any one personally that displays that you would consider a racist jerk?
    Or are you putting that on them based on your opinion? I do not know anyone personally
    who is a racist jerk and that is their reason for displaying the flag. This makes my opinion
    based on admiration not hate. Of course, as I have said, I realize some people have
    motives like antagonism and to be offensive I just don't know any, I know the opposite
    so will focus on my experience.

    And are you saying historical context as in the Civil War Reenactment?
    Each of those people are individuals with their own reason for honoring the flag.
  • the wolfthe wolf Posts: 7,027
    pandora wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    Happy to report, it is an untruth that all black people view those who display
    and honor the confederate flag as being antagonistic or offensive.

    Perhaps I attract positive intelligent people, maybe I am just damn lucky
    to know people who take the time to understand and acknowledge the good from the bad.
    They do not lump those who honor the flag for the right reasons with those who don't.
    Smart enough to try to know the individual behind the story, the memory, the ancestor,
    the battle, the flag, and the love. I have been blessed to know and love some incredible people
    with open minds and open hearts.

    Off all the people in the USA that display the confederate flag, What do you honestly believe is the percentage of people who do so because of heritage/honoring people who died in the civil war?
    Hey Jonny you know me ...
    I will believe based on who I know that there are many being misjudged.
    I don't think the people I know are special. I think that people assume so much about
    others that is negative. It seems to be always a leap to that. Not only on this subject
    but so many. Why is that?

    Just so i'm clear, I'm not really talking about the people you know Pandi, I'm saying in general, that i find it hard to believe anyone could be SO into their family heritage that they give a crap about their great, great, great, great uncle or grandfather. Espeiclly enough to show "family pride", or to display a flag, ANY flag in the name of "pride" from someone that was in your family tree, but so far removed they were nothing like you in any way, other than name.

    That just baffles me. I don't even know my Great grandfather's name, let alone any of their fathers.
    Peace, Love.


    "To question your government is not unpatriotic --
    to not question your government is unpatriotic."
    -- Sen. Chuck Hagel
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Godfather. wrote:
    all this... know it all -finger pointing-judgemental-shit talking-crap over (as someone on here had said in past threads) a flag..."it's only a flag !" :lol: now all the sudden a flag means something to "ya'll" :lol:
    I guess sometimes we just don't understand each other's beliefs and feelings, I don't believe SOUTHERN PRIDE means racism but being from SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA born and raised mind ya,and seeing all kinds of good folks here and sporting flags from everywhere but the good 'ol USA.. is that o.k with you good folks ? I was at the swapmeet a few weeks ago and saw a t-shirt that said "black pride on it"..would ya'll see that as racism ?
    or even a "brown pride" t-shirt..so I kept looking and looking for a "white pride" t-shirt but all I could find was dang ol' CONFEDERATE t-shirt so when I got home with my new shirt on my brown wife said ohhh that's a cute top..... :shock: so I went back and bought a "brown pride" t-shirt....

    :lol::lol::lol::lol:

    Godfather.
    ...
    If, as you say, 'It's only a flag'... then, does that mean it IS okay to wave a Nazi Flag, too? I mean, it is only a flag, too... right?
    ...
    Also, you might want to re-think that 'White Pride' t-shirt. Because, in order for it to be acceptable, it would mean that you are in a minority and things aren't designed in your favor. For example, it is probably perfectly acceptable to wear a 'White Pride' t-shirt... if you lived in China. Who knows, maybe one day, you'll get that 'WET' (White Entertainment Television) station you've been wishing for.
    In other words, be careful what you wish for and be grateful you were born to the majority.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • rollingsrollings unknown Posts: 7,125
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR9W1TM9HSl1gy1X7er-OigrZk1GTnOnGEOLFs8HlX2jzYBsggN

    good ole' boys
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