Boston Marathon - explosion

unsung

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

yikes. so what should they have done to catch him in your eyes?

I'll ask again.......

It's not what the did to catch him, it's what they did to everyone else in the process.

Bentleyspop

unsung wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

yikes. so what should they have done to catch him in your eyes?

I'll ask again.......

It's not what the did to catch him, it's what they did to everyone else in the process.

I've watched the news reports, listend to the radio from Boston, I've read the Boston and national newspapers, and I've talked to family and friends in Boston....have yet to see or hear anyone complain...except you of course :nono:

unsung

Following the Constitution isn't popular anymore.

rearviewross

unsung wrote:

Following the Constitution isn't popular anymore.

Sorry, I must have missed something. What was done that was unconstitutional?

vant0037

A murdered child and three other people - all innocent victims - deserves justice. The guilty party deserves imprisonment, hell, maybe even death. They hopefully suffer consequences and pain and discomfort and hopefully, maybe, possibly...they find redemption somewhere down the line (religion? spirituality? a simple and genuine feeling of remorse?). People, in this thread, have said among other things that they hoped this guy got a rifle to the teeth when he was arrested. People have mentioned hoping he eats "shit sandwiches daily." People have described denying him medical care.

Now...let's imagine for a minute, that the person everyone thinks did this...didn't do it. In some alternate universe, we'll say, the evidence that's all been put out there is the same and yet somehow, it's just a colossal fuck-up and coincidence and this guy somehow didn't do it. Does he still deserve all those things?

Let me make myself perfectly fucking clear here: I do not think this guy is innocent. At the very least, he murdered a cop. At most, he murdered 3 other people and maimed tens of hundreds of people. You may look at the photos during the marathon and his actions during the manhunt, and reasonably (and rightly, probably) conclude that this guy is one-half of the bombers. He did it.

But many of us just spent the entire week bitching about how awful, misinformed and flat-out WRONG the media's reporting of this event has been. So, let's recap where the evidence has come from in this case - the very same evidence we're all using to condemn this guy. Oh that's right, the awful and misinformed media.

So why are people so willing to trade in their good sense, compassion and reason - the same we've seen from so many places in the aftermath this week - for bloodlust and hastiness, for judgment based on what the TV has shown them? It's very sad, on top of the death of four people, the injury of others, the destruction of lives, the shattering of innocence etc etc etc, to hear people who are normally so reasonable so willing to wish pain, suffering and death for an accused based on what the TV showed them.

My point is this: mob mentality is fucking scaring. Really fucking scary. Everyone is rightly shocked, saddened, depressed and eager to see justice over this horrible event. This guy most likely is exactly who he's made out to be.

But why are people so willing to dispense with the process, rush to judgment and wish pain and suffering on someone that, at this point, only appears to be guilty? Last I checked, the appearance of guilt is not the same as actual guilt. Why the fear to let the process play itself out?

I'll repeat it, just to avoid confusion: I am NOT doubting this guy's guilt. I AM questioning the motives of people who'd rather spend time wishing pain and suffering on someone than seeing that he's duly convicted through a fair and impartial process. The evidence, as it appears to exist, will most certainly condemn this guy for what he's done. If you're religious, there will be more than that. But a wholehearted, emotional and rash plea for the pain and suffering of someone before they've been tried and convicted is about as un-American an attitude as I can imagine.

dimitrispearljam

blackredyellow wrote:

[

I do disagree with the Republican rhetoric going on now about classifying him as an enemy combatant. He is an American citizen, and he deserves the same rights as the rest of us. He didn't attack the the military or the government. He attacked other citizens. In my opinion, he is no different than a mass shooter or a serial killer or those types of scumbags.

we agree to this...no question

i asked about his rights conversation ,cos i dint see anything happened yet that he lost his rights..

dimitrispearljam

unsung wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

yikes. so what should they have done to catch him in your eyes?

I'll ask again.......

It's not what the did to catch him, it's what they did to everyone else in the process.

there is no information anywhere they didnt respect his constitutional rights
you just assuming ,cos you are against the goverment..
and...from all the forum...you are the only one that "worry" about his constitutional rights ??
you support that every citizen should be like rambo,and own guns, you support a party that brought Big Brother to usa and create Guantanamo and start wars in the name of terrorism
,and you care and worry about a terrorist-murderer constitutional rights??
if this is a joke,isnt a good one,if u are serious,ill take it as a joke..

unsung

rearviewross wrote:

unsung wrote:

Following the Constitution isn't popular anymore.

Sorry, I must have missed something. What was done that was unconstitutional?

Read some back posts.

Last-12-Exit

unsung wrote:

rearviewross wrote:

unsung wrote:

Following the Constitution isn't popular anymore.

Sorry, I must have missed something. What was done that was unconstitutional?

Read some back posts.

Nothing was done unconstitutional. Unless the police forced themselves into the homes. There have been no reports of that. Everything was done legally

Thirty Bills Unpaid

vant0037 wrote:

Let me make myself perfectly fucking clear here: I do not think this guy is innocent. At the very least, he murdered a cop. At most, he murdered 3 other people and maimed tens of hundreds of people. You may look at the photos during the marathon and his actions during the manhunt, and reasonably (and rightly, probably) conclude that this guy is one-half of the bombers. He did it.

But many of us just spent the entire week bitching about how awful, misinformed and flat-out WRONG the media's reporting of this event has been. So, let's recap where the evidence has come from in this case - the very same evidence we're all using to condemn this guy. Oh that's right, the awful and misinformed media.

So why are people so willing to trade in their good sense, compassion and reason - the same we've seen from so many places in the aftermath this week - for bloodlust and hastiness, for judgment based on what the TV has shown them? It's very sad, on top of the death of four people, the injury of others, the destruction of lives, the shattering of innocence etc etc etc, to hear people who are normally so reasonable so willing to wish pain, suffering and death for an accused based on what the TV showed them.

My point is this: mob mentality is fucking scaring. Really fucking scary. Everyone is rightly shocked, saddened, depressed and eager to see justice over this horrible event. This guy most likely is exactly who he's made out to be.

But why are people so willing to dispense with the process, rush to judgment and wish pain and suffering on someone that, at this point, only appears to be guilty? Last I checked, the appearance of guilt is not the same as actual guilt. Why the fear to let the process play itself out?

I'll repeat it, just to avoid confusion: I am NOT doubting this guy's guilt. I AM questioning the motives of people who'd rather spend time wishing pain and suffering on someone than seeing that he's duly convicted through a fair and impartial process. The evidence, as it appears to exist, will most certainly condemn this guy for what he's done. If you're religious, there will be more than that. But a wholehearted, emotional and rash plea for the pain and suffering of someone before they've been tried and convicted is about as un-American an attitude as I can imagine.

I hear what you are getting at, but I think the message is misplaced. If everyone was saying that stuff about some of the people in that post that depicted all the images of the guy with the bag, the lonely looking guy with the backpack, and the other two 'suspicious' looking guys... then your message would be more timely.

People weren't saying those barbaric comments for any of those people despite the suspicion naturally raised by the photographs. In my opinion, people actually did a really good job of waiting before throwing their rocks given what seemed a fairly legitimate expose of possible bombers.

Given the intital evidence that has been presented such as: eyewitness testimony from one of the higher profile victims; damning photographs; and his conduct just prior to being arrested... I'm convinced this idiot is guilty and so are you. We're all relieved and we're all angry. The sentiments expressed are all fair given the unfair behaviour exhibited by the ghouls.

The people, such as myself, that wish the worst for this asshole care very much for humanity. They aren't as simple as you 'kind of' suggest. You have a legal background and you have bought into many of the legal philosophies that others, such as myself, haven't. This fact doesn't make yours or my opinion better than the other- it just makes them different. If these assholes had not tried to kill hundreds of innocent people- an absolute betrayal to mankind- I would be hoping for the best for them. Given what they have done... the living brother can eat shit sandwiches and die. The dead one can rot.

rearviewross

I think if he is convicted and given the death penalty we need to get creative. I say put him in a room with a replica of one of his bombs about 5-6 feet away. Same with the dick who threw grenades in the military tent. Put him in a tent and toss a couple grenades in it. Its only fair. Ricin poison letter guy, gets to eat Ricin.

That or bring on The Running Man.

vant0037

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

I hear what you are getting at, but I think the message is misplaced. If everyone was saying that stuff about some of the people in that post that depicted all the images of the guy with the bag, the lonely looking guy with the backpack, and the other two 'suspicious' looking guys... then your message would be more timely.

People weren't saying those barbaric comments for any of those people despite the suspicion naturally raised by the photographs. In my opinion, people actually did a really good job of waiting before throwing their rocks given what seemed a fairly legitimate expose of possible bombers.

Given the intital evidence that has been presented such as: eyewitness testimony from one of the higher profile victims; damning photographs; and his conduct just prior to being arrested... I'm convinced this idiot is guilty and so are you. We're all relieved and we're all angry. The sentiments expressed are all fair given the unfair behaviour exhibited by the ghouls.

The people, such as myself, that wish the worst for this asshole care very much for humanity. They aren't as simple as you 'kind of' suggest. You have a legal background and you have bought into many of the legal philosophies that others, such as myself, haven't. This fact doesn't make yours or my opinion better than the other- it just makes them different. If these assholes had not tried to kill hundreds of innocent people- an absolute betrayal to mankind- I would be hoping for the best for them. Given what they have done... the living brother can eat shit sandwiches and die. The dead one can rot.

My point wasn't about whether the conclusions people are reaching are helpful or healthy or correct. It's the fact that an accused, no matter how guilty he looks, is tried, condemned and convicted without so much as a charge, an arraignment, a lawyer, a trial and a jury.

Yes, he's very likely the guilty piece of shit we want him to be and think he is. His actions, along with the photographs and televised evidence certainly make it seem that way. That doesn't mean we should dispense with the normal processes for dealing with piece of shit murderers, and the concern - when reading the things people wish to do to an accused before he's even been charged is that sooner or later, those same sentiments are aroused in people with the power to deny those processes. Mob mentality is very scary indeed.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

unsung wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

yikes. so what should they have done to catch him in your eyes?

I'll ask again.......

It's not what the did to catch him, it's what they did to everyone else in the process.

yes, that's part of my question. they did what they had to do to other people in order to find the guy. please explain, in detail if you can, how this violated anyone else's rights, and if so, what they could have done differently that would have resulted in catching him without further casualties.

JimmyV

Too large to embed but below is a picture of a police officer bringing gallons of milk to families with small children who had run low during yesterday's search of Watertown.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos- ... 7757_n.jpg

The police performed as close to perfect as they possibly could yesterday.

DriftingByTheStorm

vant0037 wrote:

Mob mentality is very scary indeed.

agreed. some of what i'm reading in this thread is more than scary. it's disheartening. justice should be administered with compassion, even if those tried have none themselves. I'm not sure i believe in the death penalty any more, and i'm actually rather quite sure that it would be a greater sentence and harder on the guilty if they were spared their lives, and had the rest of their time to ponder how society turned the other cheek, even after their atrocities.

Some of the responses i've seen on this thread remind me of this scene from the John Adams miniseries where the tax collector is tarred and feathered.

What is the difference between the criminal and those that apprehend him if they both act out the same base, animal tendencies? What point is proved?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

vant0037 wrote:

Mob mentality is very scary indeed.

agreed. some of what i'm reading in this thread is more than scary. it's disheartening. justice should be administered with compassion, even if those tried have none themselves. I'm not sure i believe in the death penalty any more, and i'm actually rather quite sure that it would be a greater sentence and harder on the guilty if they were spared their lives, and had the rest of their time to ponder how society turned the other cheek, even after their atrocities.

Some of the responses i've seen on this thread remind me of this scene from the John Adams miniseries where the tax collector is tarred and feathered.

What is the difference between the criminal and those that apprehend him if they both act out the same base, animal tendencies? What point is proved?

Run this one by the victims. It's pretty easy to speak as an enlightened, 'big picture thinker' when one is detached from any authentic emotion or physical pain.

The difference is that these pricks initiated the whole chain of events. They knew very well that their act was going to spill blood and there was going to be some severe consequences. So... they spilled blood and now... some severe consequences. Forced to respond... what do you expect from people? A nice cup of tea and a fireside chat to figure out why the boys became so detached from humanity? Nobody asked for these two fukheads to try and kill 100s of people in cold-blooded, ruthless fashion.

And if the death penalty is truly the kinder option then have at it: works for everyone.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

JimmyV wrote:

Too large to embed but below is a picture of a police officer bringing gallons of milk to families with small children who had run low during yesterday's search of Watertown.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos- ... 7757_n.jpg

The police performed as close to perfect as they possibly could yesterday.

Yes. Impossible to dispute. Absolutely outstanding work. New chapters can be written in law enforcement manuals and textbooks.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

vant0037 wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

I hear what you are getting at, but I think the message is misplaced. If everyone was saying that stuff about some of the people in that post that depicted all the images of the guy with the bag, the lonely looking guy with the backpack, and the other two 'suspicious' looking guys... then your message would be more timely.

People weren't saying those barbaric comments for any of those people despite the suspicion naturally raised by the photographs. In my opinion, people actually did a really good job of waiting before throwing their rocks given what seemed a fairly legitimate expose of possible bombers.

Given the intital evidence that has been presented such as: eyewitness testimony from one of the higher profile victims; damning photographs; and his conduct just prior to being arrested... I'm convinced this idiot is guilty and so are you. We're all relieved and we're all angry. The sentiments expressed are all fair given the unfair behaviour exhibited by the ghouls.

The people, such as myself, that wish the worst for this asshole care very much for humanity. They aren't as simple as you 'kind of' suggest. You have a legal background and you have bought into many of the legal philosophies that others, such as myself, haven't. This fact doesn't make yours or my opinion better than the other- it just makes them different. If these assholes had not tried to kill hundreds of innocent people- an absolute betrayal to mankind- I would be hoping for the best for them. Given what they have done... the living brother can eat shit sandwiches and die. The dead one can rot.

My point wasn't about whether the conclusions people are reaching are helpful or healthy or correct. It's the fact that an accused, no matter how guilty he looks, is tried, condemned and convicted without so much as a charge, an arraignment, a lawyer, a trial and a jury.

Yes, he's very likely the guilty piece of shit we want him to be and think he is. His actions, along with the photographs and televised evidence certainly make it seem that way. That doesn't mean we should dispense with the normal processes for dealing with piece of shit murderers, and the concern - when reading the things people wish to do to an accused before he's even been charged is that sooner or later, those same sentiments are aroused in people with the power to deny those processes. Mob mentality is very scary indeed.

Van...

We're just a bunch of fools venting on a message board. The bastard will get his day in court and this is a good thing. We are all powerless with regards to this dink's fortunes and maybe this is a good thing; but for the short term... let's not be too judgemental about the mentalities people might possess trying to digest what has just happened.

The act was reprehensible. The orchestrators of the bombing are heartless, cold bastards that deserve no empathy or respect from us as this community pours all we have into the healing of the victims, survivors, and the rest of your nation. The next decade will be marked by serious levels of distrust for all those wearing backpacks. This event was massive and correspondingly, so too is the level of disdain for those shitbaggers that designed and executed it.

know1

This thread is diminishing what little faith I had left in the human race. It's sad that so many people seem to take such comfort and even pleasure in imagining and hoping for physical pain on this suspect.

What he did was terrible. I'm not defending him at all. But some of you need to take a good look at yourselves if someone else's pain brings you comfort.

unsung

dimitrispearljam wrote:

there is no information anywhere they didnt respect his constitutional rights
you just assuming ,cos you are against the goverment..
and...from all the forum...you are the only one that "worry" about his constitutional rights ??
you support that every citizen should be like rambo,and own guns, you support a party that brought Big Brother to usa and create Guantanamo and start wars in the name of terrorism
,and you care and worry about a terrorist-murderer constitutional rights??
if this is a joke,isnt a good one,if u are serious,ill take it as a joke..

Jesus. He wasn't read his Miranda rights. They are claiming they don't need to because of the previously mentioned clause of immediate concern to public safety. However the police have declared the threat over. All your other stuff is BS and has nothing to do with the discussion.

Btw, try and catch up, I'm not a Republican.