this one was close to home for me - i grew up in boston, went to high school in watertown, have friends and family living in watertown, as well as working as cops... one girl i know was one of the first on the scene at the boat... my sister lives less than a block from where the boat was, my friends run a restaurant right near the shootout location
"RCMP say they have thwarted a terror attack targeting a VIA passenger train between Toronto and New York. Authorities say 2 suspects were under surveillance for a year before being arrested this morning. RCMP say Chiheb Esseghaler from Montreal and Raed Jaser from Toronto are facing charges."
Glad they were caught sooner rather than later!
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Boston Bomb Suspect Eyed in Connection to 2011 Triple Murder
In the wake of the revelations about the violent nature of accused marathon bomber Tamerlan Tsarnaev, investigators in the Boston suburbs tell ABC News they are probing whether he may have been involved in an unsolved grisly triple homicide of a former roommate and two others. The murders took place around the tenth anniversary of the September 11 attacks.
"We are looking at a possible connection with the suspect in the marathon atrocity and this active and open homicide in Waltham,'' Stephanie Guyotte, a spokeswoman for the Middlesex County District Attorney, confirmed to ABC News.
Tsarnaev, the alleged bombing mastermind who died in a fierce gun battle with police early Friday morning, had been training with one of the 2011 murder victims in an attempt to transition from boxing into a possible career in the brutal sport of mixed-martial arts.
The victims were found in a Waltham, Massachusetts apartment. They had their throat slashed, their heads nearly decapitated. Their mutilated bodies were left covered with marijuana.
Boston Bomb Suspect Eyed in Connection to 2011 Triple Murder
In the wake of the revelations about the violent nature of accused marathon bomber Tamerlan Tsarnaev, investigators in the Boston suburbs tell ABC News they are probing whether he may have been involved in an unsolved grisly triple homicide of a former roommate and two others. The murders took place around the tenth anniversary of the September 11 attacks.
"We are looking at a possible connection with the suspect in the marathon atrocity and this active and open homicide in Waltham,'' Stephanie Guyotte, a spokeswoman for the Middlesex County District Attorney, confirmed to ABC News.
Tsarnaev, the alleged bombing mastermind who died in a fierce gun battle with police early Friday morning, had been training with one of the 2011 murder victims in an attempt to transition from boxing into a possible career in the brutal sport of mixed-martial arts.
The victims were found in a Waltham, Massachusetts apartment. They had their throat slashed, their heads nearly decapitated. Their mutilated bodies were left covered with marijuana.
My first thought was that they are saying this only because he had a murdered roommate. Could very well just be coincidence. I'l definitely wait and see with this one, rather than jumping to conclusions.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
In the last 15 minutes I've read stories about the triple murders, the toronto train bomb plot, the Chic-fil-a shooter and his plans to kill as many people and then smear the sandwiches on them, and 70+ girls getting poisened at school in Afghanistan.
I said BEAD not bullet. The bead is whats on the end of the barrel used for aiming. IE, point my gun at you, not shoot you. Point being, dont be a fucking idiot and take photos of the police from your window, or anywhere, during this situation. Especially considering the phone you are likely taking the photo with can be used as a detonation device.
I don't see anything wrong with people taking photos through their own window when there is what looks like a military column driving by their house. That seems like a totally normal thing to do IMO. So the guy turned toward them, and also happened to be holding a gun in military fashion - as far as I know, when they are in that mode, they point their gun wherever their eyes look. It doesn't mean he was thinking about shooting someone through their own window because they were taking a photo with their iphone. What's the fucking issue here?? Holy overreaction.
I think a lot of people would find an issue with it, its stupid. They weren't driving by, they were camped out in front of the house. There is obviously a tense situation outside and directly across the street. Not an over reaction considering the comment that I was responding to.
I don't see anything wrong with people taking photos through their own window when there is what looks like a military column driving by their house. That seems like a totally normal thing to do IMO. So the guy turned toward them, and also happened to be holding a gun in military fashion - as far as I know, when they are in that mode, they point their gun wherever their eyes look. It doesn't mean he was thinking about shooting someone through their own window because they were taking a photo with their iphone. What's the fucking issue here?? Holy overreaction.
I think a lot of people would find an issue with it, its stupid. They weren't driving by, they were camped out in front of the house. There is obviously a tense situation outside and directly across the street. Not an over reaction considering the comment that I was responding to.
*shrug* I think it seems like a fairly normal thing to do. Sure it's a tense situation, but those people were looking at this tense situation all day long, and they're just sitting there watching it. Boredom alone seems like a good reason to snap a pic of what was the weirdest thing that ever happened in their neighborhood.
(I wasn't talking to you directly about the overreaction btw ).
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
In the last 15 minutes I've read stories about the triple murders, the toronto train bomb plot, the Chic-fil-a shooter and his plans to kill as many people and then smear the sandwiches on them, and 70+ girls getting poisened at school in Afghanistan.
:(
I think I shall go for a walk this evening ...
The world has come undone...
Well, seems that way at times.
Crazy shit happening.
What's with the covering of bodies with weed and the one up wanting to smear his victims with sandwiches?
I think a lot of people would find an issue with it, its stupid. They weren't driving by, they were camped out in front of the house. There is obviously a tense situation outside and directly across the street. Not an over reaction considering the comment that I was responding to.
*shrug* I think it seems like a fairly normal thing to do. Sure it's a tense situation, but those people were looking at this tense situation all day long, and they're just sitting there watching it. Boredom alone seems like a good reason to snap a pic of what was the weirdest thing that ever happened in their neighborhood.
(I wasn't talking to you directly about the overreaction btw ).
In the last 15 minutes I've read stories about the triple murders, the toronto train bomb plot, the Chic-fil-a shooter and his plans to kill as many people and then smear the sandwiches on them, and 70+ girls getting poisened at school in Afghanistan.
My first thought was that they are saying this only because he had a murdered roommate. Could very well just be coincidence. I'l definitely wait and see with this one, rather than jumping to conclusions.
Well, this could explain why they didn't run or have a get-away plan ... got away once, why not twice?
9/11 anniverery + leaving the weed and money (sins) + decapitations = pretty good chance he did it.
I'm not really sure why people are confused at their lack of exit strategy. do any terrorists ever have one? isn't it all about mass casualties and eventual death?
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I'm not really sure why people are confused at their lack of exit strategy. do any terrorists ever have one? isn't it all about mass casualties and eventual death?
yeah they aren't concerned with living. they do not care if they live or die really. in many cases they wear the bomb, drive the bomb, on & on.
flying 757's into skyscrapers. globally out of control
In the last 15 minutes I've read stories about the triple murders, the toronto train bomb plot, the Chic-fil-a shooter and his plans to kill as many people and then smear the sandwiches on them, and 70+ girls getting poisened at school in Afghanistan.
:(
I think I shall go for a walk this evening ...
I do everynight when i get home take my dog and go for a long walk it seems so unreall what this world is all about when it's just me & dog so peaceful ....
"They really do absorb the feelings of the people around them."
I was going to say the exact same thing - how many tears have dampened their fur, how many hugs of pain and comfort they've received. How many faces they've licked, how many grieving eyes they've looked into.
Sweet, loving beauties they are. So glad they can bring some relief to those who need it.
Based on his track record, I wouldn't be surprised if Eric Holder tries to plea bargain the charge down to Disturbing The Peace.
But there was no way they could try him as an unlawful enemy combatant - don't understand why so many public officials tried pushing for this, you would think they would know the law.....or then again.... :-?
In another report and interview, the guy who was carjacked and had to drive these two punks around, was allowed to live and they didn't shoot him because they told him, "you don't look American." Also allegedly, they asked the guy who was carjacked while in the car, "Did you hear about the Boston explosion? I did that."
Absolute scum of the Earth people. Very happy and prideful of all the law enforcement involved who handled this situation magnificently. Very happy the city of Boston is safe now and not living in chaos.
Bristow, VA - 5.13.10
East Troy, WI - 9.3.11
East Troy, WI - 9.4.11
Atlanta, GA - 9.22.12
Las Vegas, NV - 10.31.12 (EV)
Las Vegas, NV - 11.1.12 (EV)
Chicago, IL - 7.19.13
Dallas, TX - 11.15.13
Oklahoma City, OK - 11.16.13
Seattle, WA - 12.6.13
Lincoln, NE - 10.9.14
Moline, IL - 10.17.14
St. Paul, MN - 10.19.14
Milwaukee, WI - 10.20.14
New York, NY - 5.1.16
New York, NY - 5.2.16
Boston, MA - 8.5.16
Boston, MA - 8.7.16
Chicago, IL - 8.20.16
Based on his track record, I wouldn't be surprised if Eric Holder tries to plea bargain the charge down to Disturbing The Peace.
But there was no way they could try him as an unlawful enemy combatant - don't understand why so many public officials tried pushing for this, you would think they would know the law.....or then again.... :-?
In another report and interview, the guy who was carjacked and had to drive these two punks around, was allowed to live and they didn't shoot him because they told him, "you don't look American." Also allegedly, they asked the guy who was carjacked while in the car, "Did you hear about the Boston explosion? I did that."
Absolute scum of the Earth people. Very happy and prideful of all the law enforcement involved who handled this situation magnificently. Very happy the city of Boston is safe now and not living in chaos.
Boston Marathon bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev told authorities from his hospital bed Monday that he and his brother acted alone in last week's attack, officials said.
CBS News correspondent Bob Orr reports that Tsarnaev is cooperating with authorities, who have not found evidence of ties to any major terror organizations. Injured from a gunshot wound to the neck that has rendered him unable to speak, he is communicating via writing. Two officials also told The Associated Press that evidence indicated he and the second suspect, his brother, were motivated by religion. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-575 ... ted-alone/
It's been suggested that vengeance is the justice that people are seeking in this case. I think there's an enormous body of legal theory, philosophy and psychology supporting the idea that vengeance is smallest and perhaps least important part of "justice." Ask yourselves: when did you feel relief in this case? When you heard that he was captured? Or when you heard that he was bloodied in the process? Personally, I can say without a doubt (and I think most honest people will agree) that I felt far more relief knowing that the guy was caught than I did knowing that he had been injured or shot in the process. My secondary concern after the bombings happened (primary being the people killed or injured) was: what's next? Are there others? Will more die? It was vaguely how I felt after September 11.
Our justice system, as in many civil societies, is theoretically and largely based on restoration of order, not retribution. The media focuses on the criminals, sure, because it's interesting, it draws viewers etc (and there's a whole body of theory on why that is too). But realistically and practically speaking, criminal justice is focused on taking disorder and making it orderly again. Chaos after a bomb goes off in a crowd of innocent people...into a conviction and a state-sanctioned sentence. Our dispassionate processes ensure that no one violent criminal or act can send our world into chaos and dysfunction. For so many reasons that I do not need to elaborate on, I much prefer this scenario, as opposed to chaos after a bomb...into the chaos of mob justice.
The concern with people describing what they'd like to see done to this guy or why they're glad/satisfied/OK with whatever injuries he has is that many of us, myself included, don't just limit their opinions to these messageboards. You got out. You talk with your family. You talk with your friends. You tell your co-workers. You tell your kids. You cast votes. You sit on juries.
And sooner or later, the pernicious idea that vengeance IS justice sits in the minds of people who are able to deny due process. And when that happens, sooner or later, due process is denied in a case where the defendant truly could benefit from it (i.e. the wrongfully convicted).
What I've been arguing in this thread has nothing to do with whether I think this guy is guilty and deserves severe punishment (I do). It has everything to do with what I perceive as a concerning trend among people to allow emotion and hot-bloodedness to guide the things they say and do. Even in most cruel and awful cases, dispassionate reason must be our guide. Ask yourselves: is the benefit in capturing this guy that order and peace has been restored? Or are we happier because he's been punched, shot or injured?
I implore you: don't waste your breathe and energy and good nature wishing pain and suffering on a guy like this. He will be dealt with accordingly.
Take chaos and make it orderly.
Van...
Work has gotten in the way of my MT time. I have been waiting to respond to this post. Firstly, this is a well-articulated postion. I understand exactly what you are saying and there is much wisdom in what you have offered. I do wish to speak to two points you made where I tend to think differently. Remember I am Canadian and there are legal differences between the US and Canada.
It's been suggested that vengeance is the justice that people are seeking in this case. I think there's an enormous body of legal theory, philosophy and psychology supporting the idea that vengeance is smallest and perhaps least important part of "justice."
Least significant part of justice for whom? I am of the opinion that justice should serve those who have been traumatized more than it should meet the needs of legal pundits. In most cases... this means the survivors and the victims. I can guarantee you that those with dead children and those maimed and mutilated in Boston are not thinking along the same philosophical lines as you. Given what I have stated here... these people, myself and others would argue that vengeance is not quite as trivial as you make it out to be.
Our justice system, as in many civil societies, is theoretically and largely based on restoration of order, not retribution.
Again... restoration of order for whom? While everyone not directly affected by the recurring tragedies we are inundated with tend to move on a little quicker towards order... the survivors live the rest of their lives looking at pictures of their deceased. Worse yet... they are often reminded of the crimes that altered their existence by allowing the legal process to play out. Using an example I refer to often, 'normalcy' is not the case for the survivors of David Shearing's heinous act. David murdered a family of six in a neighbouring rural community (kidnapping the two young daughters and raping them repeatedly before finishing them off). He is now eligible for parole every two years, forcing the survivors to show up at parole hearings with the petitions they have organized to keep the monster from gaining re-entry to society. Parole is legitimately feared a reality for this man because the legal system provides for the opportunity. Further... DB is married since he was imprisoned and his wife and other bleeding hearts insist he is a changed man.
So, in summary, I would like to suggest that the processes you speak of are fine in theory... but impractical at times and in my opinion fall short at times of serving justice in the manner that some seek and deserve. While we can feel good about the legal mechanisms we have in place to ensure fairness to those accused and convicted... we must admit that these same systems fail at times leaving much to be desired.
A charity foundation, The One Fund Boston, has been set up to help those people and families most affected by the bombings in Boston. You can visit the link below to make a donation to those affected. Very good cause and you can give a few bucks to help support those people and families affected by the bombings - who will without question, have a lot to go through and a long road as they recover.
Bristow, VA - 5.13.10
East Troy, WI - 9.3.11
East Troy, WI - 9.4.11
Atlanta, GA - 9.22.12
Las Vegas, NV - 10.31.12 (EV)
Las Vegas, NV - 11.1.12 (EV)
Chicago, IL - 7.19.13
Dallas, TX - 11.15.13
Oklahoma City, OK - 11.16.13
Seattle, WA - 12.6.13
Lincoln, NE - 10.9.14
Moline, IL - 10.17.14
St. Paul, MN - 10.19.14
Milwaukee, WI - 10.20.14
New York, NY - 5.1.16
New York, NY - 5.2.16
Boston, MA - 8.5.16
Boston, MA - 8.7.16
Chicago, IL - 8.20.16
when you hear the word lock-down, what do you think of?
I think of the crazy nuts who think the government is planning to lock them up in FEMA camps.
~Carter~
You can spend your time alone, redigesting past regrets, oh
or you can come to terms and realize
you're the only one who can't forgive yourself, oh
makes much more sense to live in the present tense - Present Tense
Comments
i've been off the boards due to vacation
this one was close to home for me - i grew up in boston, went to high school in watertown, have friends and family living in watertown, as well as working as cops... one girl i know was one of the first on the scene at the boat... my sister lives less than a block from where the boat was, my friends run a restaurant right near the shootout location
what a mess... thoughts go out to the victims
"RCMP say they have thwarted a terror attack targeting a VIA passenger train between Toronto and New York. Authorities say 2 suspects were under surveillance for a year before being arrested this morning. RCMP say Chiheb Esseghaler from Montreal and Raed Jaser from Toronto are facing charges."
Glad they were caught sooner rather than later!
Good lord, it just keeps piling up..
:(
I think I shall go for a walk this evening ...
I think a lot of people would find an issue with it, its stupid. They weren't driving by, they were camped out in front of the house. There is obviously a tense situation outside and directly across the street. Not an over reaction considering the comment that I was responding to.
(I wasn't talking to you directly about the overreaction btw
Well, seems that way at times.
Crazy shit happening.
What's with the covering of bodies with weed and the one up wanting to smear his victims with sandwiches?
It'd almost be funny if it weren't so fucked up.
Fair enough. Lets move on.
yeah that
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
9/11 anniverery + leaving the weed and money (sins) + decapitations = pretty good chance he did it.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
flying 757's into skyscrapers. globally out of control
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
I do everynight when i get home take my dog and go for a long walk it seems so unreall what this world is all about when it's just me & dog so peaceful ....
I was going to say the exact same thing - how many tears have dampened their fur, how many hugs of pain and comfort they've received. How many faces they've licked, how many grieving eyes they've looked into.
Sweet, loving beauties they are. So glad they can bring some relief to those who need it.
Amazing what a dog can do. Truly are mans best friend. Just Google image comfort dogs.
But there was no way they could try him as an unlawful enemy combatant - don't understand why so many public officials tried pushing for this, you would think they would know the law.....or then again.... :-?
In another report and interview, the guy who was carjacked and had to drive these two punks around, was allowed to live and they didn't shoot him because they told him, "you don't look American." Also allegedly, they asked the guy who was carjacked while in the car, "Did you hear about the Boston explosion? I did that."
Absolute scum of the Earth people. Very happy and prideful of all the law enforcement involved who handled this situation magnificently. Very happy the city of Boston is safe now and not living in chaos.
East Troy, WI - 9.3.11
East Troy, WI - 9.4.11
Atlanta, GA - 9.22.12
Las Vegas, NV - 10.31.12 (EV)
Las Vegas, NV - 11.1.12 (EV)
Chicago, IL - 7.19.13
Dallas, TX - 11.15.13
Oklahoma City, OK - 11.16.13
Seattle, WA - 12.6.13
Lincoln, NE - 10.9.14
Moline, IL - 10.17.14
St. Paul, MN - 10.19.14
Milwaukee, WI - 10.20.14
New York, NY - 5.1.16
New York, NY - 5.2.16
Boston, MA - 8.5.16
Boston, MA - 8.7.16
Chicago, IL - 8.20.16
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Sweet dogs! Thanks for posting it, Kat!
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Van...
Work has gotten in the way of my MT time. I have been waiting to respond to this post. Firstly, this is a well-articulated postion. I understand exactly what you are saying and there is much wisdom in what you have offered. I do wish to speak to two points you made where I tend to think differently. Remember I am Canadian and there are legal differences between the US and Canada.
It's been suggested that vengeance is the justice that people are seeking in this case. I think there's an enormous body of legal theory, philosophy and psychology supporting the idea that vengeance is smallest and perhaps least important part of "justice."
Least significant part of justice for whom? I am of the opinion that justice should serve those who have been traumatized more than it should meet the needs of legal pundits. In most cases... this means the survivors and the victims. I can guarantee you that those with dead children and those maimed and mutilated in Boston are not thinking along the same philosophical lines as you. Given what I have stated here... these people, myself and others would argue that vengeance is not quite as trivial as you make it out to be.
Our justice system, as in many civil societies, is theoretically and largely based on restoration of order, not retribution.
Again... restoration of order for whom? While everyone not directly affected by the recurring tragedies we are inundated with tend to move on a little quicker towards order... the survivors live the rest of their lives looking at pictures of their deceased. Worse yet... they are often reminded of the crimes that altered their existence by allowing the legal process to play out. Using an example I refer to often, 'normalcy' is not the case for the survivors of David Shearing's heinous act. David murdered a family of six in a neighbouring rural community (kidnapping the two young daughters and raping them repeatedly before finishing them off). He is now eligible for parole every two years, forcing the survivors to show up at parole hearings with the petitions they have organized to keep the monster from gaining re-entry to society. Parole is legitimately feared a reality for this man because the legal system provides for the opportunity. Further... DB is married since he was imprisoned and his wife and other bleeding hearts insist he is a changed man.
So, in summary, I would like to suggest that the processes you speak of are fine in theory... but impractical at times and in my opinion fall short at times of serving justice in the manner that some seek and deserve. While we can feel good about the legal mechanisms we have in place to ensure fairness to those accused and convicted... we must admit that these same systems fail at times leaving much to be desired.
My nomination for the 2013 Moving Train Awards 'Best Exchange of Dialogue Between Two Members'
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos- ... 5637_o.jpg
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
https://onefundboston.org/
East Troy, WI - 9.3.11
East Troy, WI - 9.4.11
Atlanta, GA - 9.22.12
Las Vegas, NV - 10.31.12 (EV)
Las Vegas, NV - 11.1.12 (EV)
Chicago, IL - 7.19.13
Dallas, TX - 11.15.13
Oklahoma City, OK - 11.16.13
Seattle, WA - 12.6.13
Lincoln, NE - 10.9.14
Moline, IL - 10.17.14
St. Paul, MN - 10.19.14
Milwaukee, WI - 10.20.14
New York, NY - 5.1.16
New York, NY - 5.2.16
Boston, MA - 8.5.16
Boston, MA - 8.7.16
Chicago, IL - 8.20.16
I think of the crazy nuts who think the government is planning to lock them up in FEMA camps.
You can spend your time alone, redigesting past regrets, oh
or you can come to terms and realize
you're the only one who can't forgive yourself, oh
makes much more sense to live in the present tense - Present Tense
"...I changed by not changing at all..."