Chicago Public School Teachers on Strike...

inlet13

kelly311 wrote:

Since the contract has not been finalized, I cannot answer that question with exact terms. However, some of the things that are on the table for all students, not just your daughter.

- lower class sizes

Reading between the lines this means more teachers, at these $70K salaries plus benefits and retirement, which means more debt for a broke city.

kelly311 wrote:

-teachers and text books in the classroom on day one (seriously this is an issue in some schools)

Are the teachers in the classroom now? They seem to be outside the classroom.

kelly311 wrote:

-more money for classroom supplies

How about you lower the pay and then add that money to supplies? Since the gov't is broke.

kelly311 wrote:

- Better Access to supplementary services, such as social work, counselors, speech, occupational, and physical therapies.

More $ the broke gov't should pay for.

kelly311 wrote:

-More arts and enrichment activities (art, library, gym, music)

More $ to pay for the $70K salaries and additional items.

kelly311 wrote:

-Safe buildings

More $.

kelly311 wrote:

-Recess and a proper lunch period

I'm fine with this one, provided it doesn't require more $.

kelly311 wrote:

Now these may not pertain to you. You may live in a more affluent area that already receives many of these things. However, in many areas of the city, students go without these things.

Yet, their teachers make on average the highest teaching salary in the nation.

kelly311

inlet13 wrote:

kelly311 wrote:

Since the contract has not been finalized, I cannot answer that question with exact terms. However, some of the things that are on the table for all students, not just your daughter.

- lower class sizes

Reading between the lines this means more teachers, at these $70K salaries plus benefits and retirement, which means more debt for a broke city.

kelly311 wrote:

-teachers and text books in the classroom on day one (seriously this is an issue in some schools)

Are the teachers in the classroom now? They seem to be outside the classroom.

kelly311 wrote:

-more money for classroom supplies

How about you lower the pay and then add that money to supplies? Since the gov't is broke.

kelly311 wrote:

- Better Access to supplementary services, such as social work, counselors, speech, occupational, and physical therapies.

More $ the broke gov't should pay for.

kelly311 wrote:

-More arts and enrichment activities (art, library, gym, music)

More $ to pay for the $70K salaries and additional items.

kelly311 wrote:

-Safe buildings

More $.

kelly311 wrote:

-Recess and a proper lunch period

I'm fine with this one, provided it doesn't require more $.

kelly311 wrote:

Now these may not pertain to you. You may live in a more affluent area that already receives many of these things. However, in many areas of the city, students go without these things.

Yet, their teachers make on average the highest teaching salary in the nation.

There is plenty of money there. For instance, the central office budget went up by 50 million dollars this year. Also, the diverted TIF money should be used for education, not the cronies of city officials. They need to use the money they get in a better way. I have no qulams with no or minimal raises, provided the money would be used for these types of things, which the schools are obligated to provide legally.

cincybearcat

kelly311 wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

kelly311 wrote:

-Recess and a proper lunch period

What does this mean?

It seems you are saying they do not have recess. Is that correct?

And for lunch, what is a "proper lunch period"?

Most CPS schools have not had recess until this year and only 20 minutes to get and eat their lunch due to an old contract. They now have 45 minutes for lunch and recess daily. I think this is great for teachers and students, even if it doesn't directly impact me.

Holy crap!!! My daughter (kindergarten) only gets about 20 minutes for lunch. I like the change to 45, a bit long, but better than 20!!!

cincybearcat

kelly311 wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

kelly311 wrote:

Since the contract has not been finalized, I cannot answer that question with exact terms. However, some of the things that are on the table for all students, not just your daughter.

- lower class sizes

Reading between the lines this means more teachers, at these $70K salaries plus benefits and retirement, which means more debt for a broke city.

kelly311 wrote:

-teachers and text books in the classroom on day one (seriously this is an issue in some schools)

Are the teachers in the classroom now? They seem to be outside the classroom.

kelly311 wrote:

-more money for classroom supplies

How about you lower the pay and then add that money to supplies? Since the gov't is broke.

kelly311 wrote:

- Better Access to supplementary services, such as social work, counselors, speech, occupational, and physical therapies.

More $ the broke gov't should pay for.

kelly311 wrote:

-More arts and enrichment activities (art, library, gym, music)

More $ to pay for the $70K salaries and additional items.

kelly311 wrote:

-Safe buildings

More $.

kelly311 wrote:

-Recess and a proper lunch period

I'm fine with this one, provided it doesn't require more $.

kelly311 wrote:

Now these may not pertain to you. You may live in a more affluent area that already receives many of these things. However, in many areas of the city, students go without these things.

Yet, their teachers make on average the highest teaching salary in the nation.

There is plenty of money there. For instance, the central office budget went up by 50 million dollars this year. Also, the diverted TIF money should be used for education, not the cronies of city officials. They need to use the money they get in a better way. I have no qulams with no or minimal raises, provided the money would be used for these types of things, which the schools are obligated to provide legally.

I see where you both are coming from. I do think some of these are more "need to do" and sveral are "nice to do's", but in an economic crisis where $ is short, those "nice to do's" gotta go.

cornnifer

inlet13 wrote:

College professor pay depends on the school. But, yes there are many that make below $60K, some even below $50K.

Well since you keep bringing it up, how much do you make?

Nonsense to be monitored? This attitude is exactly what's wrong here. The "give me more money, with no accountability and no fears of being let-go" mantra... during a fucking economic disaster that's being compounded by government debt... and oh- you're a government employee on the government payroll who wants more money, contributing to more gov't debt.

Yet, the rational of why the general public finds these things frustrating is confusing to teachers and their unions.

i make none of your business per year. Annually. suffice it to say all of your above figures are above the mark.
i didn't say there should be no monitoring or accountability. i asked how you suggest handling that because test scores is a b.s method of doing that. Comparing my students performance to the students across town is also b.s. Apples and oranges. Its an unfair means of assessment. So, how?

cincybearcat

cornnifer wrote:

i asked how you suggest handling that because test scores is a b.s method of doing that.

Why?

Now, it shouldn't be the only thing, but shouldn't it be part of it? Why are you teaching them?

81

i think only people with kids should pay for schools/teachers/admins/pensions

inlet13

kelly311 wrote:

There is plenty of money there. For instance, the central office budget went up by 50 million dollars this year. Also, the diverted TIF money should be used for education, not the cronies of city officials. They need to use the money they get in a better way. I have no qulams with no or minimal raises, provided the money would be used for these types of things, which the schools are obligated to provide legally.

Not sure I agree -

The state of IL and the city of Chicago are broke. They have $665 million deficit, which is the reason they levied property taxes at their highest rate allowable by law. The school system emptied their rainy day fund/reserves. Then there's the pensions that they can't pay for. Ratings agencies have downgraded Chicago Public Schools - which will mean higher interest rates (more debt). Fitch has claimed that this strike actually worsens problems because supervision costs.

If you want to argue on "broke" go ahead, but this strike is undoubtedly not helping matters. And I think it was you who said your goal is to ensure that students succeed.

cincybearcat

81 wrote:

i think only people with kids should pay for schools/teachers/admins/pensions

And you should pay more for each kid you have!!!!

cincybearcat

inlet13 wrote:

And I think it was you who said your goal is to ensure that students succeed.

Yes, but to be fair, it's longterm thinking versus short. You can;t argue that not being in the classroom helps the kids, but it is unfair to use that argument against the teachers as well. Especially after 1 day.

81

cincybearcat wrote:

81 wrote:

i think only people with kids should pay for schools/teachers/admins/pensions

And you should pay more for each kid you have!!!!

i'm cool with that.

cincybearcat

81 wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

81 wrote:

i think only people with kids should pay for schools/teachers/admins/pensions

And you should pay more for each kid you have!!!!

i'm cool with that.

And if your kid smokes you pay even more!!!

cincybearcat

81 wrote:

i think only people with kids should pay for schools/teachers/admins/pensions

I certainly see where you are coming from. Though, I don't think it's a bad investment in your neighborhood and can help drive your property value up.

If that is the case though, you should have to pay an extra fee as soon as your kid enters the school system...to help contribute to all that value that was created while you sat back and didn't participate. Seat license fees!!!

Cliffy6745

I just want to say, seems like there has been some pretty healthy debate in this thread today, on a pretty sensitive topic. I have enjoyed following it. I don't really have anything to add.

I do think that the educational system in this country is severly broken and we need to put more money towards fixing education than wars and the like (shit we're building schools in Afghanistan in hopes of their culture improving but closing them in Philly where we need them most for our culture to improve :crazy:) , but I also don't think the majority of the teachers in this case (not speaking for the people here) are really on strike for the benefit of the kids.

A senstive topic has gone a while without breaking down though. Might be a record.

cincybearcat

Cliffy6745 wrote:

A senstive topic has gone a while without breaking down though. Might be a record.

I had the same thought. Though, I think it could go at any moment....someone's on the edge.

inlet13

cornnifer wrote:

i make none of your business per year. Annually. suffice it to say all of your above figures are above the mark.
i didn't say there should be no monitoring or accountability. i asked how you suggest handling that because test scores is a b.s method of doing that. Comparing my students performance to the students across town is also b.s. Apples and oranges. Its an unfair means of assessment. So, how?

You were the one bringing up your salary over and over.I suppose you don't teach in Chicago.

Anywho... I think that everyone should be accountable in their work. A not perfect form of accountability is better than none whatsoever. So, I'd say anything is better than nothing.

Why not compare your class scores to your schools average? You get five shots to be at the lowest of the bunch. After five lowest ratings in the school, you're fired. No excuses. Another, each class is tested and compared against the schools average. If your class is below the average, you make a below the average salary for that school (by that exact percentage). If your class is above the average- you make above average salary. (by that exact percentage) That's two techniques I came up with off the top of my head. We could talk about 1000s of options.

The one option of - let them teach whatever and not be accountable at all sucks. It encourages awful teachers and shitty education. That's my take.

kelly311

I see where you both are coming from. I do think some of these are more "need to do" and sveral are "nice to do's", but in an economic crisis where $ is short, those "nice to do's" gotta go.[/quote]

I understand what you're saying as well. However it is a catch-22 situation, in that if a student requires nursing, occupational therapy, speech therapy, physical therapy, social work services, etc, public school systems are mandated to provide them due to IDEA 2004.

81

cincybearcat wrote:

81 wrote:

i think only people with kids should pay for schools/teachers/admins/pensions

I certainly see where you are coming from. Though, I don't think it's a bad investment in your neighborhood and can help drive your property value up.

If that is the case though, you should have to pay an extra fee as soon as your kid enters the school system...to help contribute to all that value that was created while you sat back and didn't participate. Seat license fees!!!

property value up.... my village's school system rates like shit, yet i give them a shit ton of cash every year.

in fairness, i'm cool with paying something for schools. i mean, i did take advantage of my public schools as a kid, although my folks paid for it thru their taxes. it just pisses me off how much waste is in the system, and how out of control the pension system is. yeah, that's bad grammer...sue my teachers.

81

kelly311 wrote:

IDEA 2004.

perhaps that needs to be changed.

BinauralJam

81 wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

81 wrote:

i think only people with kids should pay for schools/teachers/admins/pensions

And you should pay more for each kid you have!!!!

i'm cool with that.

Hey now, that's a thought!
Want an education kid?
Google it ya little bastard.
As long as it doesn't hit my wallet!
Usamamasan and Ds do have a point.