Chicago Public School Teachers on Strike...

Jason P

Somebody get Jim Belushi on the blower! We will have this problem solved within months.

fife

81 wrote:

seriously, if you want to fix the school system, you need to fix the parents.

now, i'm a bit screwy, maybe because i came from small town rural america where it was expected that you go to school and for the most part, parents cared if you were skipping.

i don't sense that alot of parents here care what their kids are doing.....

I agree with you somewhat. Parents do have to take a bigger interested in their children education. I think what we also have to realized is that kids don't just learn in school.

Cliffy6745

81 wrote:

seriously, if you want to fix the school system, you need to fix the parents.

now, i'm a bit screwy, maybe because i came from small town rural america where it was expected that you go to school and for the most part, parents cared if you were skipping.

i don't sense that alot of parents here care what their kids are doing.....

I come from a family of academics, so I certainly was rasied knowing the importance of education. That said...

That is exactly why I feel this country is the way it is. If you give everyone the opportunity for an equal education, people will begin to see the value of said education, they will then instill the value of education in their children and so on. Will it fix overnight? Hell no. It will take generations. But until we stop pretending we are educating our poor, how can we expect anything different out of them? How can we expect an uneducated poor person who saw no value in education to act any differently? In my opinion, fixing the school system will help to fix the parents.

Jason P

81 wrote:

seriously, if you want to fix the school system, you need to fix the parents.

now, i'm a bit screwy, maybe because i came from small town rural america where it was expected that you go to school and for the most part, parents cared if you were skipping.

i don't sense that alot of parents here care what their kids are doing.....

The Union even stated that judging their performance on standardized test scores wasn't fair because they couldn't control the child and what influences the child outside the classroom.

The root of the problem is right in our face yet we choose to ignore it.

81

hey teachers.....get the out of the loop....you are screwing with people trying to get home from work. :fp:

just got a call from the woman that shit is clogged up in the loop with teachers.....i told her to start throwing elbows.

kelly311

DS1119 wrote:

kelly311 wrote:

Well let's stop educating those who cannot afford it and see what the crime rate is then. The fact of the matter is we live in the most corrupt state in the nation. We are 49th in spending for education. The education system here and across the country is a mess. I don't think there are any easy answers or alternatives.

So giving teachers raises is the answer then? I say more police presence is the answer. Make it desirable for that kid to go to school and not hang out on a street corner. Put a cop on every corner instead of more money in teachers pockets and watch what happens to the crime rate.

I never said it was. I have stated MULTIPLE times that I am fine with little or no raises. I would rather the money be used to fix the education system responsibly. However, CPS chooses to increase adminstrative costs by 50 million dollars and often spends money wastefully. I also agree that more cops are needed. There has been a steady decrease in number on the police force over the past few years and I think our crime rates show that. That does not negate the fact that education is important.

kelly311

hedonist wrote:

81 wrote:

seriously, if you want to fix the school system, you need to fix the parents.

now, i'm a bit screwy, maybe because i came from small town rural america where it was expected that you go to school and for the most part, parents cared if you were skipping.

i don't sense that alot of parents here care what their kids are doing.....

I think that's an excellent starting place. Just one factor, but I think the most important.

And small-town has nothing to do with it! I grew up in the heart of Los Angeles and my parents had the same expectations of my sister and me.

(for the most part, we did not disappoint )

I agree with both of you. I was born and raised in the city and never had any issues in school. But I also had parents who made sure that I did my homework, got me to school every day, talked with my teachers, etc.

cornnifer

cincybearcat wrote:

cornnifer wrote:

i asked how you suggest handling that because test scores is a b.s method of doing that.

Why?

Now, it shouldn't be the only thing, but shouldn't it be part of it? Why are you teaching them?

i'm teaching them to help them become successful members of society. Certainly not to pass a test. Secondly many factors come in to play. The students at my school tend to perform horribly on the state tests and it has little to do with the efforts, hard work, dedication, skill or professionalism of myself or any other teacher in my school. Its completely unfair to assess my performance based on these test scores.

DS1119

fife wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

So what is your solution to fix it and educate our poor?

You and others can always donate your money to the educational system instead of it being mandated by ever increasing school taxes. Also educators that feel so strongly about it "being about the kids" can always donate their time.

yes that the right answer. donate your money screw robbing people of their taxes. and if you want to be a teacher then best be prepared to not get paid for your job. :roll:

People can always choose not to be teachers and if too many choose not to, simple supply and demand comes into play. But for teachers to use the fact their educational system is failing becasue they aren't paid enough? :fp:

DS1119

fife wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

kelly311 wrote:

Well let's stop educating those who cannot afford it and see what the crime rate is then. The fact of the matter is we live in the most corrupt state in the nation. We are 49th in spending for education. The education system here and across the country is a mess. I don't think there are any easy answers or alternatives.

So giving teachers raises is the answer then? I say more police presence is the answer. Make it desirable for that kid to go to school and not hang out on a street corner. Put a cop on every corner instead of more money in teachers pockets and watch what happens to the crime rate.

so you have no problem paying for more cops on the street but more teachers in the schools you say no to?

Yes. I would rahter have my tax dollars going toward a police presence then pad teacher's pockets when their system is already failing. If the teacher's want to fight for more money for resources to educate...that's one thing. But to demand pay raises when the job isn't alrady being done. How does a pay raise make them do their job any better? It won't. It's an excuse.

DS1119

cornnifer wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

cornnifer wrote:

i asked how you suggest handling that because test scores is a b.s method of doing that.

Why?

Now, it shouldn't be the only thing, but shouldn't it be part of it? Why are you teaching them?

i'm teaching them to help them become successful members of society. Certainly not to pass a test. Secondly many factors come in to play. The students at my school tend to perform horribly on the state tests and it has little to do with the efforts, hard work, dedication, skill or professionalism of myself or any other teacher in my school. Its completely unfair to assess my performance based on these test scores.

How should a teacher's perrformance be assessed then? And I'm being serious. If we're not supposed to look at graduation rates, standardized test scoring, college admission rates, etc. what should we be looking at?

Jeanwah

hedonist wrote:

81 wrote:

seriously, if you want to fix the school system, you need to fix the parents.

now, i'm a bit screwy, maybe because i came from small town rural america where it was expected that you go to school and for the most part, parents cared if you were skipping.

i don't sense that alot of parents here care what their kids are doing.....

I think that's an excellent starting place. Just one factor, but I think the most important.

And small-town has nothing to do with it! I grew up in the heart of Los Angeles and my parents had the same expectations of my sister and me.

(for the most part, we did not disappoint )

While parents are part of the problem, the real problem is the union. Kill the unions!

riotgrl

81 wrote:

kelly311 wrote:

Well let's stop educating those who cannot afford it and see what the crime rate is then. The fact of the matter is we live in the most corrupt state in the nation. We are 49th in spending for education. The education system here and across the country is a mess. I don't think there are any easy answers or alternatives.

cut 25% of the admininstrative system....and then cut pensions.

Certainly, administrative positions at the central office level, in my district at least, are severely bloated. That would be the first place to cut. In addition, I have to think some misallocation of Title I funding occurs when we have schools receiving $400,000 for professional development while other schools receive $2000. Perhaps a full audit of each district is definitely in order. Also, we have a large amount of baby boomers retiring which is going to increase pensions costs for the foreseeable future. My district does not have a pension but rather a defined benefit plan. I contribute 10% per paycheck just the same as my husband at his Fortune 500 company. I receive a percentage of my base salary based on the last 5 years of employment as a "match" by the state. I wonder how many districts around the country use this model rather than a true pension system?

Jeanwah

riotgrl wrote:

81 wrote:

kelly311 wrote:

Well let's stop educating those who cannot afford it and see what the crime rate is then. The fact of the matter is we live in the most corrupt state in the nation. We are 49th in spending for education. The education system here and across the country is a mess. I don't think there are any easy answers or alternatives.

cut 25% of the admininstrative system....and then cut pensions.

Certainly, administrative positions at the central office level, in my district at least, are severely bloated. That would be the first place to cut. In addition, I have to think some misallocation of Title I funding occurs when we have schools receiving $400,000 for professional development while other schools receive $2000. Perhaps a full audit of each district is definitely in order. Also, we have a large amount of baby boomers retiring which is going to increase pensions costs for the foreseeable future. My district does not have a pension but rather a defined benefit plan. I contribute 10% per paycheck just the same as my husband at his Fortune 500 company. I receive a percentage of my base salary based on the last 5 years of employment as a "match" by the state. I wonder how many districts around the country use this model rather than a true pension system?

The governor of NY has slashed funding for all public schools. So because of the statewide union involvement, the only things that get cut out of budgets are student programs. While my district (or rather, the tax payers) continues to pay multiple step pay raises per year for teachers in addition to hefty retirements first and foremost because of the union contracts, art and music were scrapped from the curriculum. Yeah, now remind me who is the priority of the education system again? Certainly not the students.

riotgrl

DS1119 wrote:

cornnifer wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Why?

Now, it shouldn't be the only thing, but shouldn't it be part of it? Why are you teaching them?

i'm teaching them to help them become successful members of society. Certainly not to pass a test. Secondly many factors come in to play. The students at my school tend to perform horribly on the state tests and it has little to do with the efforts, hard work, dedication, skill or professionalism of myself or any other teacher in my school. Its completely unfair to assess my performance based on these test scores.

How should a teacher's perrformance be assessed then? And I'm being serious. If we're not supposed to look at graduation rates, standardized test scoring, college admission rates, etc. what should we be looking at?

I have to agree with ds. We have to look at all those factors when assessing a teachers performance and student achievement, IMO. However, we need to create a better system of holding the kids accountable on these tests. My state initiated a new testing system last year which most teachers in my district seem to like. It is a rigorous test and actually measures what we teach and learn during the school year. However, teacher performance in regards to student performance was assessed for teacher evaluations but students were not held accountable at all. They were able to fail the test and there were no repercussions. Those students were obviously thrilled that they passed the class for the year regardless of their performance but the students who worked hard on the test (and during the year!) were pissed that they were held to the same standard as their lesser counterparts. Where is the incentive for the kid to do well when it doesn't count? This is not just a teacher problem - this is an administrative problem. And lets be real, we get directives/mandates from outside our state (i.e., No Child Left Behind and Race to the Top) which force districts to do things that are not beneficial to the kids all for the sake of money.

peacefrompaul

81 wrote:

i think only people with kids should pay for schools/teachers/admins/pensions

I agree

peacefrompaul

DS1119 wrote:

kelly311 wrote:

Well let's stop educating those who cannot afford it and see what the crime rate is then. The fact of the matter is we live in the most corrupt state in the nation. We are 49th in spending for education. The education system here and across the country is a mess. I don't think there are any easy answers or alternatives.

So giving teachers raises is the answer then? I say more police presence is the answer. Make it desirable for that kid to go to school and not hang out on a street corner. Put a cop on every corner instead of more money in teachers pockets and watch what happens to the crime rate.

That's pretty creepy, big brother.

riotgrl

Jeanwah wrote:

riotgrl wrote:

81 wrote:

cut 25% of the admininstrative system....and then cut pensions.

Certainly, administrative positions at the central office level, in my district at least, are severely bloated. That would be the first place to cut. In addition, I have to think some misallocation of Title I funding occurs when we have schools receiving $400,000 for professional development while other schools receive $2000. Perhaps a full audit of each district is definitely in order. Also, we have a large amount of baby boomers retiring which is going to increase pensions costs for the foreseeable future. My district does not have a pension but rather a defined benefit plan. I contribute 10% per paycheck just the same as my husband at his Fortune 500 company. I receive a percentage of my base salary based on the last 5 years of employment as a "match" by the state. I wonder how many districts around the country use this model rather than a true pension system?

The governor of NY has slashed funding for all public schools. So because of the statewide union involvement, the only things that get cut out of budgets are student programs. While my district (or rather, the tax payers) continues to pay multiple step pay raises per year for teachers in addition to hefty retirements first and foremost because of the union contracts, art and music were scrapped from the curriculum. Yeah, now remind me who is the priority of the education system again? Certainly not the students.

I understand that frustration. My state has also cut a great deal of funding but our union agreed to pay freezes at the administrative level and a suspension of step raises and no cost of living increase for the foreseeable future. I am ok with that because the economy sucks for everyone and I don't expect the taxpayers to fund my raise while their pay has not increased. Obviously, the union in NY sounds like they are trying to protect the teachers to the detriment of the students which is wrong. I think union support is stronger in most northern and Midwestern states which usually means that the union doesn't do what it was originally supposed to do - protect workers but not give them things that are unnecessary. However, many southern states (like mine) do not have a strong tradition of union support so we get important protections that benefit us, of course, but that are also beneficial to the kids (like lower class sizes). Too bad there can't be a compromise in states like NY so the union protects but doesn't overreach.

riotgrl

peacefrompaul wrote:

81 wrote:

i think only people with kids should pay for schools/teachers/admins/pensions

I agree

But don't we all benefit from a well educated populace? If you are a small business owner then that means you have a ready and able workforce. If you are an HR manager then you have a large work pool to chose from. If no one else benefited then I could see the rationale but there are thousands of way you benefit from other peoples children getting that education.

Jeanwah

riotgrl wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

riotgrl wrote:

Certainly, administrative positions at the central office level, in my district at least, are severely bloated. That would be the first place to cut. In addition, I have to think some misallocation of Title I funding occurs when we have schools receiving $400,000 for professional development while other schools receive $2000. Perhaps a full audit of each district is definitely in order. Also, we have a large amount of baby boomers retiring which is going to increase pensions costs for the foreseeable future. My district does not have a pension but rather a defined benefit plan. I contribute 10% per paycheck just the same as my husband at his Fortune 500 company. I receive a percentage of my base salary based on the last 5 years of employment as a "match" by the state. I wonder how many districts around the country use this model rather than a true pension system?

The governor of NY has slashed funding for all public schools. So because of the statewide union involvement, the only things that get cut out of budgets are student programs. While my district (or rather, the tax payers) continues to pay multiple step pay raises per year for teachers in addition to hefty retirements first and foremost because of the union contracts, art and music were scrapped from the curriculum. Yeah, now remind me who is the priority of the education system again? Certainly not the students.

I understand that frustration. My state has also cut a great deal of funding but our union agreed to pay freezes at the administrative level and a suspension of step raises and no cost of living increase for the foreseeable future. I am ok with that because the economy sucks for everyone and I don't expect the taxpayers to fund my raise while their pay has not increased. Obviously, the union in NY sounds like they are trying to protect the teachers to the detriment of the students which is wrong. I think union support is stronger in most northern and Midwestern states which usually means that the union doesn't do what it was originally supposed to do - protect workers but not give them things that are unnecessary. However, many southern states (like mine) do not have a strong tradition of union support so we get important protections that benefit us, of course, but that are also beneficial to the kids (like lower class sizes). Too bad there can't be a compromise in states like NY so the union protects but doesn't overreach.

Pending on the union representative, some districts agree on a concession with the teachers to pay or step freezes. But the teachers have to join forces and have majority rule on any freezes. The teachers would not jointly agree to conceding in my district for the past two years, as well as the union rep refusing to compromise neither. The kids are the ones who suffer. The only way to overhaul the education system is to get rid of unions. They were created for good reason, and did what they were created to do long ago. But times have changed, the educational quality of the country has changed and unions have not changed. Get rid of them so we can see some real reform (as well as getting rid of NCLB!) Those standardized tests don't teach the kids anything, and teachers are frozen to teach to the test simply because of No Child Left Behind. Why is it still in effect??