Chicago Public School Teachers on Strike...

peacefrompaul

For the union makes us strong.

dignin

lukin2006 wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

Its really unfair to blame the teachers...they are pawns (lemmings) doing what union leadership tells them. Sure they took a strike vote, probably most never thought a strike would happen (haven't had teachers strike in Chicago in 25 years).

How do the Chicago charter school works? people who wish to put kids in charter school given a certificate and then off the kid goes? Is this an option? Its really early in the school year so why not send your kids to a charter school?

Why do people get upset when they see the wages/benefits/perks that teachers get...really $70 000 doesn't strike me as an absurd salary.

I work in the support staff of a school board and our teachers are some very well compensated teachers. I also get to see their dedication to kids. Most not all do way more than they have to.

They shouldn't be making over $70,000 a year on average before benefits (retirement/pension) and have off in the summer. Once again, it's higher than many college professors make.That's ridiculous.

That's not to say teachers aren't good people. I know 99% are. The truth is though - they shouldnt be getting into teaching if they want to make a lot of money or have off in the summer or have a great pension or all of the above. That's not the way it should be at least in this economy. It should be they want to give back. You like to educate. You get something out of it. Sure, getting paid for it, and reasonably well... is a perk. But, $70K plus... is too high in my mind - especially with their shit results. And fighting for more is just not right.

Our government is broke. They need to back off ....

...like everyone else is. If we had no debt, I wouldn't complain about the teacher's salaries. We are broke. They are public employees.

They aren't the reason your government is broke or any government is broke. I do not begrudge teachers because they have good pay/benefits/perks...as a matter of fact we all should strive to acheive their standard of living. But instead people bitch and moan that a teachers makes a good salary etc...when so many have become slaves to the corporate machine who would rather outsource jobs and make incredible profits than make sure they have a good standard of living.

Thank you, couldn't have said it any better myself.

Jeanwah

The teachers unions were necessary in the beginning. But they are doing nothing but enabling the impossibility of education reform at this point, while ensuring that teachers get their perks. It's totally backwards, and we shouldn't be blaming teachers OR parents. The real fight is the teachers unions. Shut them down.

peacefrompaul

Jeanwah wrote:

The teachers unions were necessary in the beginning. But they are doing nothing but enabling the impossibility of education reform at this point, while ensuring that teachers get their perks. It's totally backwards, and we shouldn't be blaming teachers OR parents. The real fight is the teachers unions. Shut them down.

inlet13

lukin2006 wrote:

They aren't the reason your government is broke or any government is broke. I do not begrudge teachers because they have good pay/benefits/perks...as a matter of fact we all should strive to acheive their standard of living. But instead people bitch and moan that a teachers makes a good salary etc...when so many have become slaves to the corporate machine who would rather outsource jobs and make incredible profits than make sure they have a good standard of living.

What is the reason our government is broke? Seriously, I'm curious of your answer.

Because I think the true answer basically refutes every other point you made. The government is broke primarily because of special interests. But, it boils down to government spending more than they have. Thos who support government spending in general live in a fantasy land, like the one you painted, where gov't has the power to increase standards of living countrywide by spending money that it's taking from it's citizens to begin with (or printing and devaluing it's currency). The logic - just give group A this (at X cost), give group B that (at Y cost), give group C (at Z cost) this, etc. and take it from group M, country N and bank A - that will make people "better off". :fp: In the short run, that may "seem" to work - government will take loans and pay it out, economy may look better briefly until the debt is owed. But, in the long run, we end up here - with a large cost to the former action. Prolonged government spending above their means is exactly like prolonged corporate or personal spending above one's means. It seems great until the shit hits the fan. Government spending as the per-eminent source of a good standard of living is asinine. The entity that will grow the economy is a growth in resources or technology. That's it. Increasing welfare programs, redistribution or gov't pay doesn't do squat in the long run.... other than debt and depressions - it constrains growth. Economic growth will cause the government to have more money to work with. That's what is needed.

Like I said, teachers making great money is fantastic if:

1) It's warranted
2) It's not an economic mess
3) The government is not broke

cincybearcat

adam42381 wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

adam42381 wrote:

Coming from a teacher, asking for a 30% raise over 2 years is ridiculous. My wife is in her 9th year of teaching and I'm in my second. Combined we make right at $80,000/year. Sure, the cost of living is lower here, but it's not that much lower. Oh, and we're not union members.

So in Florida you do not have to join the teacher's union? Do you happen to know if this is true in any other states?

It is optional. We get the same pay and benefits, but don't have to pay dues. The only thing we don't get is union representation if a lawsuit is brought against us. Instead of union representation, the school district will back you as long as you aren't perceived by them to be the at fault party. I don't know for sure about all of the states, but most southern states don't have mandatory unions. My wife has taught in Virginia, North Carolina and Florida and has never been a union member.

Interesting, thanks.

kelly311

As a Chicago Public School Teacher, I feel the need to say something based solely on the amount of misinformation and ugly comments that I see here.

I make a decent wage, but as an early childhood special education teacher, I earn every penny that I make. Every teacher I know is willing to take the small raise that CPS is offering, even though they took away our contractually obligated raise last year. I'm not looking for more money, even though I spend a ridiculous amount of my salary on supplies, including basics such as kleenex. I recently received another endorsement, that will not make me anymore money, on my own dime. I am now required to be in my buidling an extra hour each day for free (add that to the hour before and hour after I already spend there). It is NOT ABOUT RAISES! It is about working and learning conditions.

Just to be clear:

We receive one week of paid vacation a year and 10 sick days. However, try using all those days and you will receive a low rating, and evetually be fired. I personally average one day a year because I know how detrimental it is for me to not be there. Any other time off is UNPAID.

Every K-8 classroom in my school has 35-40 children in it. This is in an economically depressed area, with 99% poverty rate. The children spend an average of 18-25 days per school year taking standardized tests. Track E students started school in 90-plus degree weather, with no air conditioning. Don't even get me started on special education law and reform...

Though everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I think it is ridiculous to make comments on situation that many people seem to have little first hand knowledge of. I want to work. I love teaching and I am a great teacher. I do not want to strike, but I will do what it takes to ensure that my students receive everything that they need to be successful, including safe schools, appropriate staff (clinicians, paraprofessionals, etc), and appropriate materials.

Also, FYI charter schools do not require their teachers to be certified. If teaching is so easy and pays so well, some of you should submit your resumes!

inlet13

kelly311 wrote:

We receive one week of paid vacation a year and 10 sick days. However, try using all those days and you will receive a low rating, and evetually be fired.

Do you not consider the entire summer part of your vacation?

cincybearcat

kelly311 wrote:

As a Chicago Public School Teacher, I feel the need to say something based solely on the amount of misinformation and ugly comments that I see here.

I make a decent wage, but as an early childhood special education teacher, I earn every penny that I make. Every teacher I know is willing to take the small raise that CPS is offering, even though they took away our contractually obligated raise last year. I'm not looking for more money, even though I spend a ridiculous amount of my salary on supplies, including basics such as kleenex. I recently received another endorsement, that will not make me anymore money, on my own dime. I am now required to be in my buidling an extra hour each day for free (add that to the hour before and hour after I already spend there). It is NOT ABOUT RAISES! It is about working and learning conditions.

Just to be clear:

We receive one week of paid vacation a year and 10 sick days. However, try using all those days and you will receive a low rating, and evetually be fired. I personally average one day a year because I know how detrimental it is for me to not be there. Any other time off is UNPAID.

Every K-8 classroom in my school has 35-40 children in it. This is in an economically depressed area, with 99% poverty rate. The children spend an average of 18-25 days per school year taking standardized tests. Track E students started school in 90-plus degree weather, with no air conditioning. Don't even get me started on special education law and reform...

Though everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I think it is ridiculous to make comments on situation that many people seem to have little first hand knowledge of. I want to work. I love teaching and I am a great teacher. I do not want to strike, but I will do what it takes to ensure that my students receive everything that they need to be successful, including safe schools, appropriate staff (clinicians, paraprofessionals, etc), and appropriate materials.

Also, FYI charter schools do not require their teachers to be certified. If teaching is so easy and pays so well, some of you should submit your resumes!

So is this not true?

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/10/wh ... ?hpt=hp_t1

kelly311

inlet13 wrote:

kelly311 wrote:

We receive one week of paid vacation a year and 10 sick days. However, try using all those days and you will receive a low rating, and evetually be fired.

Do you not consider the entire summer part of your vacation?

It's not paid, so why should I? Also, as a special educator, I teach extended school year for 4-6 weeks during the summer. I also spend a week or so at my school to move furniture, clean, go to inservices, again unpaid.

Like I said, I believe that a make a decent raise and am not looking for a substantial raise, as some others have alluded to. They could pay me a million dollars, but if classroom sizes continue to increase, special education violations continue to pile up, and unfounded mandates continue to be placed on me, it wouldn't be worth it.

cincybearcat

"As many as 6,000 teachers could lose their jobs under the evaluation system, according to Lewis, who called the system "unacceptable."
"This is no way to measure the effectiveness of an educator," she said Sunday. "Further, there are too many factors beyond our control which impact how well some students perform on standardized tests such as poverty, exposure to violence, homelessness, hunger and other social issues beyond our control.""

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/10/us/illino ... ?hpt=hp_t1

Wow, just wow. No way to measure the effectiveness? Really?

cincybearcat

kelly311 wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

kelly311 wrote:

We receive one week of paid vacation a year and 10 sick days. However, try using all those days and you will receive a low rating, and evetually be fired.

Do you not consider the entire summer part of your vacation?

It's not paid, so why should I? Also, as a special educator, I teach extended school year for 4-6 weeks during the summer. I also spend a week or so at my school to move furniture, clean, go to inservices, again unpaid.

Like I said, I believe that a make a decent raise and am not looking for a substantial raise, as some others have alluded to. They could pay me a million dollars, but if classroom sizes continue to increase, special education violations continue to pile up, and unfounded mandates continue to be placed on me, it wouldn't be worth it.

So, if you don;t count all that extra time off the average salary for a teacher in Chicago is actually more equal to about $90,000. Almost $80,000 for about 10 months work, right?

lukin2006

kelly311 wrote:

As a Chicago Public School Teacher, I feel the need to say something based solely on the amount of misinformation and ugly comments that I see here.

I make a decent wage, but as an early childhood special education teacher, I earn every penny that I make. Every teacher I know is willing to take the small raise that CPS is offering, even though they took away our contractually obligated raise last year. I'm not looking for more money, even though I spend a ridiculous amount of my salary on supplies, including basics such as kleenex. I recently received another endorsement, that will not make me anymore money, on my own dime. I am now required to be in my buidling an extra hour each day for free (add that to the hour before and hour after I already spend there). It is NOT ABOUT RAISES! It is about working and learning conditions.

Just to be clear:

We receive one week of paid vacation a year and 10 sick days. However, try using all those days and you will receive a low rating, and evetually be fired. I personally average one day a year because I know how detrimental it is for me to not be there. Any other time off is UNPAID.

Every K-8 classroom in my school has 35-40 children in it. This is in an economically depressed area, with 99% poverty rate. The children spend an average of 18-25 days per school year taking standardized tests. Track E students started school in 90-plus degree weather, with no air conditioning. Don't even get me started on special education law and reform...

Though everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I think it is ridiculous to make comments on situation that many people seem to have little first hand knowledge of. I want to work. I love teaching and I am a great teacher. I do not want to strike, but I will do what it takes to ensure that my students receive everything that they need to be successful, including safe schools, appropriate staff (clinicians, paraprofessionals, etc), and appropriate materials.

Also, FYI charter schools do not require their teachers to be certified. If teaching is so easy and pays so well, some of you should submit your resumes!

kelly311

cincybearcat wrote:

kelly311 wrote:

As a Chicago Public School Teacher, I feel the need to say something based solely on the amount of misinformation and ugly comments that I see here.

I make a decent wage, but as an early childhood special education teacher, I earn every penny that I make. Every teacher I know is willing to take the small raise that CPS is offering, even though they took away our contractually obligated raise last year. I'm not looking for more money, even though I spend a ridiculous amount of my salary on supplies, including basics such as kleenex. I recently received another endorsement, that will not make me anymore money, on my own dime. I am now required to be in my buidling an extra hour each day for free (add that to the hour before and hour after I already spend there). It is NOT ABOUT RAISES! It is about working and learning conditions.

Just to be clear:

We receive one week of paid vacation a year and 10 sick days. However, try using all those days and you will receive a low rating, and evetually be fired. I personally average one day a year because I know how detrimental it is for me to not be there. Any other time off is UNPAID.

Every K-8 classroom in my school has 35-40 children in it. This is in an economically depressed area, with 99% poverty rate. The children spend an average of 18-25 days per school year taking standardized tests. Track E students started school in 90-plus degree weather, with no air conditioning. Don't even get me started on special education law and reform...

Though everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I think it is ridiculous to make comments on situation that many people seem to have little first hand knowledge of. I want to work. I love teaching and I am a great teacher. I do not want to strike, but I will do what it takes to ensure that my students receive everything that they need to be successful, including safe schools, appropriate staff (clinicians, paraprofessionals, etc), and appropriate materials.

Also, FYI charter schools do not require their teachers to be certified. If teaching is so easy and pays so well, some of you should submit your resumes!

So is this not true?

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/10/wh ... ?hpt=hp_t1

Not true on what point? The CTU stated yesterday that money was not a sticking point...

kelly311

So, if you don;t count all that extra time off the average salary for a teacher in Chicago is actually more equal to about $90,000. Almost $80,000 for about 10 months work, right?[/quote]

I have been teaching for 8 years and make nowhere near that amount.

inlet13

kelly311 wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

kelly311 wrote:

We receive one week of paid vacation a year and 10 sick days. However, try using all those days and you will receive a low rating, and evetually be fired.

Do you not consider the entire summer part of your vacation?

It's not paid, so why should I? Also, as a special educator, I teach extended school year for 4-6 weeks during the summer. I also spend a week or so at my school to move furniture, clean, go to inservices, again unpaid.

Like I said, I believe that a make a decent raise and am not looking for a substantial raise, as some others have alluded to. They could pay me a million dollars, but if classroom sizes continue to increase, special education violations continue to pile up, and unfounded mandates continue to be placed on me, it wouldn't be worth it.

Seems paid to me. Unless you're trying to say the average teacher in Chicago makes $70K+ for 9/10 months work. That's kinda echoing my point. For example, I think most folks consider Christmas vacation as vacation in the private market. But, what do they know. They're all laying off people because of a recession and stuff.

Anyway, I found the line about having to pay for Kleenex funny. That must be tough.

kelly311

Anyway, I found the line about having to pay for Kleenex funny. That must be tough. [/quote]

Yeah because spending thousands of dollars of your salary each year on basic supplies is funny. I have bought tissues, toilet paper, baby wipes, diapers, winter coats, pens, pencils, markers, soap, paper towels, in addition to learning materials. I don't know of too many other jobs that require you to bring your own supplies...

cincybearcat

kelly311 wrote:

Not true on what point? The CTU stated yesterday that money was not a sticking point...

Just asking, this article makes the strike about $ (not salary, but benefits) and about ensuring they have jobs if schools close. I never saw anywhere about the stuff you wrote about...safe, good learning environments, etc. I was just wondering your thoughts on this article and whether or not it was highlighting the top reasons of the strike as it says it is.

cincybearcat

kelly311 wrote:

Anyway, I found the line about having to pay for Kleenex funny. That must be tough.

Yeah because spending thousands of dollars of your salary each year on basic supplies is funny. I have bought tissues, toilet paper, baby wipes, diapers, winter coats, pens, pencils, markers, soap, paper towels, in addition to learning materials. I don't know of too many other jobs that require you to bring your own supplies...[/quote]

I agree with you. In my kids school district the schools don't pay for that stuff either, the parents are all "asked" to "donate" it. I imagine in your school district the parents are either unable or unwilling to do so.

cincybearcat

kelly311 wrote:

So, if you don;t count all that extra time off the average salary for a teacher in Chicago is actually more equal to about $90,000. Almost $80,000 for about 10 months work, right?

I have been teaching for 8 years and make nowhere near that amount.[/quote]

But this strike isn't just about you, I;m just using the averages stated in the article.

And if you are a good teacher, you should be able to make more money then a long time terrible teacher. I think that is a travesty.