I don't think this thread is embarrassing at all. There is a reason this thread is 30 pages long so far.
don't equate a good topic with how long it goes. that's like saying Britney Spears must make awesome music because of how many cd's she sold.
I've always thought if a deaf alien showed up on earth, and looked at a Nickleback concert where there were 20,000 fans, and then looked at a Fugazi concert where there were 1,000 fans, then looked at the album charts for Nickleback and Fugazi, that I would have a hard time convincing the alien that Fugazi was the better band.
"So you are saying because less people like a band and listen to the music, it is better?"
I find it fascinating that what people didn't accept 10 years ago they freely accept now because it is affecting their pocket book now more than back then.
Pearl Jam playing to a small group of corporate millionaires doesn't affect my pocketbook at all. Because I'm not a corporate millionaire, and I won't be attending.
Though it does affect my attitude to the band, in that it forces me to ask some questions about where their heads are at.
I guess my comment wasn't necessarily geared toward accepting PJ's activities, but just the passive response from people that make it seem normal to change your views drastically over time (which can happen but I would think wouldn't on the important things). Ethics and morals shouldn't change based on your economic position.
I see what you mean, but what if someone changes their ethics and morals over time for what most of us would consider the better? Then we'd applaud. People's ethics and morals do change over time sometimes, often because of lifestyle changes, and our own ethics and morals are what dictate whether or not the change is acceptable or not. I agree that a change like that is a big deal, though, so don't get the passivity about the theory. Perspective though... it's one corporate gig. Just one or two actions don't make a person or a band. Everyone has ebs and flows when it comes to their vision of the world. I think the band deserves to be cut a break; their good deeds and consistent positive force in the world by FAR outshine this gig or few other things people might consider to be contrary to their overall beliefs.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
i like how people think that the entire audience is made up of millionaires and that they're all corporate thugs. To me this looks like a convention for everyday working people. Yes the week costs $2500 but anyone with a job on here should realize that companies send their 9-5 workers to these things for training, networking, marketing, etc. A lot of companies DEMAND that their workers go to these things. $2500 is a drop in the bucket for any business or office. Haven't you people ever heard of training budgets? How is this even news. Pearl Jam/Vedder have played corporate gigs/parties before going back 10 years or so. I better stop tho. In this community sometimes it's bad to talk about the corporate world. I'll go occupy my office now.
this was a great original post and 100% spot on. the poster should not have deleted it.
my company has sent me on plenty of training/networking events that cost my company $2500 and more. i just wasn't lucky enough to have pearl jam show up. :x
nothing else to add other than misguided hate in this thread.
I've always thought if a deaf alien showed up on earth, and looked at a Nickleback concert where there were 20,000 fans, and then looked at a Fugazi concert where there were 1,000 fans, then looked at the album charts for Nickleback and Fugazi, that I would have a hard time convincing the alien that Fugazi was the better band.
"
i really wanna know..how the hell your mind went there..
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
I guess my comment wasn't necessarily geared toward accepting PJ's activities, but just the passive response from people that make it seem normal to change your views drastically over time (which can happen but I would think wouldn't on the important things). Ethics and morals shouldn't change based on your economic position.
Actually I'm not overly peeved about them doing this gig, and my posting of 'Pull My Strings' was a bit over the top - would be cool if they played that song at this gig though
But I've thought about this corporate shindig a lot today, and no matter what way I look at it I still come back to the same conclusion: It's lame.
I guess my comment wasn't necessarily geared toward accepting PJ's activities, but just the passive response from people that make it seem normal to change your views drastically over time (which can happen but I would think wouldn't on the important things). Ethics and morals shouldn't change based on your economic position.
Actually I'm not overly peeved about them doing this gig, and my posting of 'Pull My Strings' was a bit over the top - would be cool if they played that song at this gig though
But I've thought about this corporate shindig a lot today, and no matter what way I look at it I still come back to the same conclusion: It's lame.
That it is.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I guess my comment wasn't necessarily geared toward accepting PJ's activities, but just the passive response from people that make it seem normal to change your views drastically over time (which can happen but I would think wouldn't on the important things). Ethics and morals shouldn't change based on your economic position.
Actually I'm not overly peeved about them doing this gig, and my posting of 'Pull My Strings' was a bit over the top - would be cool if they played that song at this gig though
But I've thought about this corporate shindig a lot today, and no matter what way I look at it I still come back to the same conclusion: It's lame.
That it is.
Corporate shindigs are the domain of people like Mick Hucknall, and Robbie Williams. Not Pearl Jam.
Just catching up on this news and its really put the cat amongst the pigeons. Kind of begs the question 'Will the real Pearl Jam please stand up'? Are they a group of talented free-thinking musicians with strong collective moral compass, passionate about what they preach through their music and care about their fans? Are they just the front men of a giant business, having to make compromises in order to ensure the well being of its employees and the continued success of their brand? Or are they actually greedy old men, part of a wealthy elite with access and privilege we can only imagine, selling a calculated image to ensure they and their family keeps safe what they've managed to squeeze out of the American Dream?
I expect it's probably a mix of the first two, at least that's what I choose to believe and I guess that's what it comes down to in the end. We don't really know the true motivations behind why this band does anything, but we choose to have faith in them as good decent people. If we can't rely on them, then ultimately what worth does their music have? Would it be more worthy if Ed still worked as a security guard and Mike made pizza, but on their down time they played music together and only charged ticket prices that covered costs? Or if the band quit their jobs and lived on a farm together growing their own food and making their own clothes and playing free festivals in one of their fields? Of course not, that would be silly, we live in a capitalist system after all. At times our faith is tested, and I'm aware this is all starting to sound a bit horribly religious, but how bad is playing a corporate event now and then in the grand scheme of things? Is it as bad as a priest abusing a child, clearly not. Is it as bad as Ed marrying a model after railing against the industry in a line from one of his songs (if that was how you interpreted it)? Who knows? I'm sure there are loads of instances that you could use to chip away at the group and their actions over 20 odd years if you so choose. But knowing all the good that they do, and have done, I'd have to question what your motivations are, why are you so angry? If it's as simple as you want to see them live and this has brought out that frustration then cool. I can get behind that. If it's because you are pissed that the ticket price is too high then I'd question why you'd want to see them in this type of environment in the first place. Sounds a bit like watching a porno with your parents sat next to you. But the accusations that they have 'sold out' at this time of their lives and in this world, as sad and un-idealistic as it may be, come off as a little immature and blinkered.
I admit that this is my initial reaction to the news and I've yet to look to deeply into what this corporate event actually is, just wanted to get in the mix. I've always wanted to go to SF...maybe it being the birth place of counter culture and the whole hippy thing makes this move seem even more hard to swallow? Or is the whole technology thing the 'new' hippy movement? I'm getting old.
I'd question why you'd want to see them in this type of environment in the first place. Sounds a bit like watching a porno with your parents sat next to you.
That's kind of what I thought earlier. I imagine watching them in this kind of setting would be a bit weird, and awkward. I'd rather see them in a proper venue, playing to proper fans.
if this was in the middle of a full US tour, would anyone have a problem with this?
Some still would, others like me wouldn't. But this is precisely the problem, the US shows the last couple of years have been few and far between, yet the band has the time to do a show like this?
So what's the dress code for this thing gonna be? Are PJ bow ties going to be available at the merch stand?
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
this thread is hilarious. some people have no idea what they're even commenting on regarding the oracle congress. drama queens galore in this thread.
who gives a shit if pearl jam plays at a conference? i wish they played at the conferences i went to. i never get my 2 grand's worth with a midweek gig from an international act.
Yeh I've seen Pearl Jam, too. But I can't remember the dates.
i like how people think that the entire audience is made up of millionaires and that they're all corporate thugs. To me this looks like a convention for everyday working people. Yes the week costs $2500 but anyone with a job on here should realize that companies send their 9-5 workers to these things for training, networking, marketing, etc. A lot of companies DEMAND that their workers go to these things. $2500 is a drop in the bucket for any business or office. Haven't you people ever heard of training budgets? How is this even news. Pearl Jam/Vedder have played corporate gigs/parties before going back 10 years or so. I better stop tho. In this community sometimes it's bad to talk about the corporate world. I'll go occupy my office now.
this was a great original post and 100% spot on. the poster should not have deleted it.
my company has sent me on plenty of training/networking events that cost my company $2500 and more. i just wasn't lucky enough to have pearl jam show up. :x
nothing else to add other than misguided hate in this thread.
Exactly. 30 pages in and people are either ignoring this or spouting off without looking into it at all.
One of the reasons I connect so strongly to this band is because of the music but especially the lyrics. The lyrics often echo my very own feelings about what is happening in the world or within my relationships and it has been very comforting to know that there are others (like the band but also, I've always felt that the other fans must feel the same way as well since we seem to be such a rabid bunch around here ) that feel that same way. Because of that I do feel some level of disappointment - I'm not sure that i would say selling out - but certainly this has made me take notice that there might be some level of hypocrisy or change in their attitudes over time. Of course, they are going to change because of their position and wealth and yes, they give a great deal of time and money to charity and I'll never stop being a fan of their music but I still feel a twinge of disappointment over this. Maybe it's irrational and unfair but that is how I feel.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
IT workers have it made! They sit around playing games all day, occasionally telling some stupid suit to switch his machine off and on again, then get sent on some boring weekend in SF and fucking Pearl Jam are playing there. Those guys are truly blessed.
IT workers have it made! They sit around playing games all day, occasionally telling some stupid suit to switch his machine off and on again, then get sent on some boring weekend in SF and fucking Pearl Jam are playing there. Those guys are truly blessed.
haha..great post!
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
I love this whole ideals thing and that people think PJ have changed or sold out because they've made deals with Target and now this Oracle event.
The same band that releases nearly every show its played since 2000 on cd. Yeah, cos that's not a money-maker is it?!? They've sold over 3 million bootlegs since 2000. The point is they've always been making money and are extremely wealthy. Have you ever thought there is a certain sense of irony in a rich man singing Green Disease or Soon Forget? But on the other hand, whilst they make alot of money they give to charity as well. There's there Vitalogy Foundation that benefits from ticket sales and just go look at the Activism page on here.
We don't know why they are playing this gig and it doesn't really matter why they are. Not to me anyway. I don't care, they are free to do what they want. Any band is. I'd probably do the same thing if I was in a band. They certainly shouldn't be issuing a statement saying why they are playing :roll: :roll:
Post edited by boyo79 on
2000: Manchester
2006: Dublin; Leeds; Arnhem
2007: London
2009: Manchester
2012: Manchester I & II : EV Manchester : Soundgarden Shepherds Bush
2013: Brad Manchester : Soundgarden Manchester
2014: Amsterdam I & II; Berlin; Leeds; Milton Keynes 2018: Berlin; London II; Boston II
I'm sorry but if pj playing this event doesn't bother you then you must not have been around the 90's with them. You didn't go through the whole TM debacle. This band stood for something, now I'm wondering if instead of standing for something, they just pull the ottoman up to the couch and kick there feet up.
Anybody remember the Ottawa speech Ed did regarding Halliburton??? You can get the bootleg.
Looks like pj is and has always been part of the machine......well played mr vedder. You had us fooled.
I'm sorry but if pj playing this event doesn't bother you then you must not have been around the 90's with them. You didn't go through the whole TM debacle. This band stood for something, now I'm wondering if instead of standing for something, they just pull the ottoman up to the couch and kick there feet up.
Anybody remember the Ottawa speech Ed did regarding Halliburton??? You can get the bootleg.
Looks like pj is and has always been part of the machine......well played mr vedder. You had us fooled.
What I dont understand.
All of a sudeen, because of this 1 SHOW, people are all bent out of shape over Pearl Jam and their actions? This is a band that hasnt played a total of 30-35 shows in the USA since 2006. This is a band that has attempted to sell merchandise, that would give the KISS ARMY a run for its money.... including baby clothing, shoes, jackets, hoodies, REAL UGLY baseball caps, lighters, playing cards. etc etc...This is a band, where the ONLY time anyone who works in management speaks, is when they come on HERE, selling a poster, a shirt, a jacket, etc.
And NOW you say "they are kicking up their feet?"
My question is...
Where have you people been the last 6-7 years?
Have you NOT seen what I have seen the last 6-7 years?
Take me piece by piece..... Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
I hope they sell a limited edition Pearl Jam Laptop with a stickman mouse at the show and one of you fuckers complaining about this is going to lose his life savings paying for it on ebay.
Pure class.
kinda like the rest of this thread. it's embarassing to read.
I'm sorry but if pj playing this event doesn't bother you then you must not have been around the 90's with them. You didn't go through the whole TM debacle. This band stood for something, now I'm wondering if instead of standing for something, they just pull the ottoman up to the couch and kick there feet up.
Anybody remember the Ottawa speech Ed did regarding Halliburton??? You can get the bootleg.
Looks like pj is and has always been part of the machine......well played mr vedder. You had us fooled.
What I dont understand.
All of a sudeen, because of this 1 SHOW, people are all bent out of shape over Pearl Jam and their actions? This is a band that hasnt played a total of 30-35 shows in the USA since 2006. This is a band that has attempted to sell merchandise, that would give the KISS ARMY a run for its money.... including baby clothing, shoes, jackets, hoodies, REAL UGLY baseball caps, lighters, playing cards. etc etc...This is a band, where the ONLY time anyone who works in management speaks, is when they come on HERE, selling a poster, a shirt, a jacket, etc.
And NOW you say "they are kicking up their feet?"
My question is...
Where have you people been the last 6-7 years?
Have you NOT seen what I have seen the last 6-7 years?
The baby clothes blew my mind the first time I saw them. That said, I have a great picture of my nephew sporting a Pearl Jam outfit.
I hate to say it but speedy, we probably didn't want to believe that "our" band was becoming what they/us detested. A CORPORATE BAND. You're absolutely correct speedy, they have been transforming right infront of our eyes for the past 10 years. And to think Ed once said that NO ONE should have to pay more than $20 for a show. Now days it costs more than $20 just to fucken park at the venue. Tix cost $90 ea, t shirts, fuck, $40, posters $30, etc....reality is setting in, times have changed, people have changed, guess its time to stop being in denial and except it that pj is a corporate band. Albeit a fucking killer band at that!!!! And I know speedy, you don't give a rats ass about my post!!! Hahahaha
Comments
I've always thought if a deaf alien showed up on earth, and looked at a Nickleback concert where there were 20,000 fans, and then looked at a Fugazi concert where there were 1,000 fans, then looked at the album charts for Nickleback and Fugazi, that I would have a hard time convincing the alien that Fugazi was the better band.
"So you are saying because less people like a band and listen to the music, it is better?"
this was a great original post and 100% spot on. the poster should not have deleted it.
my company has sent me on plenty of training/networking events that cost my company $2500 and more. i just wasn't lucky enough to have pearl jam show up. :x
nothing else to add other than misguided hate in this thread.
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Actually I'm not overly peeved about them doing this gig, and my posting of 'Pull My Strings' was a bit over the top - would be cool if they played that song at this gig though
But I've thought about this corporate shindig a lot today, and no matter what way I look at it I still come back to the same conclusion: It's lame.
Corporate shindigs are the domain of people like Mick Hucknall, and Robbie Williams. Not Pearl Jam.
I expect it's probably a mix of the first two, at least that's what I choose to believe and I guess that's what it comes down to in the end. We don't really know the true motivations behind why this band does anything, but we choose to have faith in them as good decent people. If we can't rely on them, then ultimately what worth does their music have? Would it be more worthy if Ed still worked as a security guard and Mike made pizza, but on their down time they played music together and only charged ticket prices that covered costs? Or if the band quit their jobs and lived on a farm together growing their own food and making their own clothes and playing free festivals in one of their fields? Of course not, that would be silly, we live in a capitalist system after all. At times our faith is tested, and I'm aware this is all starting to sound a bit horribly religious, but how bad is playing a corporate event now and then in the grand scheme of things? Is it as bad as a priest abusing a child, clearly not. Is it as bad as Ed marrying a model after railing against the industry in a line from one of his songs (if that was how you interpreted it)? Who knows? I'm sure there are loads of instances that you could use to chip away at the group and their actions over 20 odd years if you so choose. But knowing all the good that they do, and have done, I'd have to question what your motivations are, why are you so angry? If it's as simple as you want to see them live and this has brought out that frustration then cool. I can get behind that. If it's because you are pissed that the ticket price is too high then I'd question why you'd want to see them in this type of environment in the first place. Sounds a bit like watching a porno with your parents sat next to you. But the accusations that they have 'sold out' at this time of their lives and in this world, as sad and un-idealistic as it may be, come off as a little immature and blinkered.
I admit that this is my initial reaction to the news and I've yet to look to deeply into what this corporate event actually is, just wanted to get in the mix. I've always wanted to go to SF...maybe it being the birth place of counter culture and the whole hippy thing makes this move seem even more hard to swallow? Or is the whole technology thing the 'new' hippy movement? I'm getting old.
Berlin - August 15, 2009
Lisbon - July 10, 2010
Berlin - June 26, 2014
Zurich - June 23, 2022
http://www.last.fm/user/Kloddz
That's kind of what I thought earlier. I imagine watching them in this kind of setting would be a bit weird, and awkward. I'd rather see them in a proper venue, playing to proper fans.
Some still would, others like me wouldn't. But this is precisely the problem, the US shows the last couple of years have been few and far between, yet the band has the time to do a show like this?
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
:(
Fucking sad
who gives a shit if pearl jam plays at a conference? i wish they played at the conferences i went to. i never get my 2 grand's worth with a midweek gig from an international act.
Exactly. 30 pages in and people are either ignoring this or spouting off without looking into it at all.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
The same band that releases nearly every show its played since 2000 on cd. Yeah, cos that's not a money-maker is it?!?
We don't know why they are playing this gig and it doesn't really matter why they are. Not to me anyway. I don't care, they are free to do what they want. Any band is. I'd probably do the same thing if I was in a band. They certainly shouldn't be issuing a statement saying why they are playing :roll: :roll:
2006: Dublin; Leeds; Arnhem
2007: London
2009: Manchester
2012: Manchester I & II : EV Manchester : Soundgarden Shepherds Bush
2013: Brad Manchester : Soundgarden Manchester
2014: Amsterdam I & II; Berlin; Leeds; Milton Keynes
2018: Berlin; London II; Boston II
Bootleg Reviews: http://pjbootlegreviews.blogspot.com/
Why don't you ask them why they are playing Oracle?
Eddie Vedder Tribute Videos - Playlist
The EDvolution of Dance: youtu.be/-HtF3gRYHnE
eddievedderhallpass.tumblr.com
Yep.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Anybody remember the Ottawa speech Ed did regarding Halliburton??? You can get the bootleg.
Looks like pj is and has always been part of the machine......well played mr vedder. You had us fooled.
RIGHT MY BROTHERS?!
What I dont understand.
All of a sudeen, because of this 1 SHOW, people are all bent out of shape over Pearl Jam and their actions? This is a band that hasnt played a total of 30-35 shows in the USA since 2006. This is a band that has attempted to sell merchandise, that would give the KISS ARMY a run for its money.... including baby clothing, shoes, jackets, hoodies, REAL UGLY baseball caps, lighters, playing cards. etc etc...This is a band, where the ONLY time anyone who works in management speaks, is when they come on HERE, selling a poster, a shirt, a jacket, etc.
And NOW you say "they are kicking up their feet?"
My question is...
Where have you people been the last 6-7 years?
Have you NOT seen what I have seen the last 6-7 years?
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
Yeah you fit in well.
The baby clothes blew my mind the first time I saw them. That said, I have a great picture of my nephew sporting a Pearl Jam outfit.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Tell us Speedy, what have you seen.