You have no idea what you are talking about. Learn something about the conference and the people that attend before you open your mouth. :roll:
did you just tell me to shut up? :roll:
ok, explain what I have wrong, smart guy. I'm sure this conference is allll business, right?
Exclusive Party? Its open to anyone that pays for the full convention. Your ignorance on these conferences is blinding me. You have never been to one obviously and have no idea what goes on there. If you think people pay 2500 for a week of BS and partying you have, like I said, NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.
I didnt tell you to shut up, I told you you shouldn't speak about things you clearly know nothing about.
Just because the exclusive party is part of a conference doesn't make it any less exclusive. They're playing a show for people who aren't even fans, but, rather, just a bunch of IT people whose companies paid $2400 for them to go and take some workshops, stay at a nice hotel, and go to a concert. Most of them probably don't even give a flying fuck about Pearl Jam. 3/4 of the crowd at least is going to just be standing around like a bunch of trees. I'm not sure why PJ would want to play to that kind of crowd.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Just because the exclusive party is part of a conference doesn't make it any less exclusive. They're playing a show for people who aren't even fans, but, rather, just a bunch of IT people whose companies paid $2400 for them to go and take some workshops, stay at a nice hotel, and go to a concert. Most of them probably don't even give a flying fuck about Pearl Jam. 3/4 of the crowd at least is going to just be standing around like a bunch of trees. I'm not sure why PJ would want to play to that kind of crowd.
You know all these IT people arent fans? I know 3 people that were already going to this conference before hand that are now pumped. I saw another guy say he couldn't go to the Tester show because of this conference. He day was just made.
You are drawing sweeping conclusions about something you know nothing about, The deal and the bands motivations for doing this.
"They MUST be a bunch of money grubbing aholes to do this gig!" :fp: "I mean its not like they dont donate to charities everywhere they go" Oh wait...
And its not just companies paying for people to go, yes that happens but people pay out of pocket for these things to further their career. If anyone has any idea what good IT education costs in the Bay Area than you'll know $2500 is nothing...
You have no idea what you are talking about. Learn something about the conference and the people that attend before you open your mouth. :roll:
No, it's true ... most of those conferences are basically a free vacation for most of those people, with some workshops thrown in for good measure. Especially the ones where Pearl Jam is playing for them! I and DO know what I'm talking about. I work with the people who attend those conferences.
My wife puts these on for Intel all over the world. Yeah they have parties and eat at nice restaurants but to think nothing of any substance goes on at these things is again showing you have no idea what you are talking about.
"Its just a big party" :fp:
I never said nothing of substance ever goes on. I mentioned the workshops; never claimed they were useless - of course they're not. But those conferences are infinitely more easy and fun than work, and now they're getting a Pearl Jam concert too!
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Wow, thank you for educating all us stupid fucking idiots oh wise one.... You really have a way of phrasing things!
I never called anyone a stupid fucking idiot, dont put words in my mouth.
But in this thread? There are a ton people that think they know, and they have NO IDEA. Educate yourself people. Learn how the world works. People dont live in the 90s anymore. We are on the edge of a global financial collapse. PJ should be grabbing all the money they can and buying gold with it.
People feel different things for different reasons - at least respect their feelings, even if you aren't reacting the same way to the whole thing.
Feelings are for pussies :P
Okay, I'm totally joking. I'm still stuck somewhere between mildly disappointed and "this feels really really weird" but I don't think the band owes me an explanation. I will still love and support them, but maybe next time Ed goes off about big corporations at a show, I might roll my eyes. If he's not looking. And maybe down the road if they do more things that make me feel like this, I may not be so inclined to fly to Europe for six shows. Or maybe I still will. Who knows? I do whatever feels right.
As a long-time fan, I am entitled to form an opinion, just as the rest of you are. It may be different than what other people think, doesn't mean I love the band any more or less than them and it certainly doesn't make me a bad person. The fact that we can have such an emotional reaction to this is a privilege, there are people out in the world who are worrying about more serious things like clean water and feeding their kids.
Just because the exclusive party is part of a conference doesn't make it any less exclusive. They're playing a show for people who aren't even fans, but, rather, just a bunch of IT people whose companies paid $2400 for them to go and take some workshops, stay at a nice hotel, and go to a concert. Most of them probably don't even give a flying fuck about Pearl Jam. 3/4 of the crowd at least is going to just be standing around like a bunch of trees. I'm not sure why PJ would want to play to that kind of crowd.
You know all these IT people arent fans? I know 3 people that were already going to this conference before hand that are now pumped. I saw another guy say he couldn't go to the Tester show because of this conference. He day was just made.
You are drawing sweeping conclusions about something you know nothing about, The deal and the bands motivations for doing this.
"They MUST be a bunch of money grubbing aholes to do this gig!" :fp: "I mean its not like they dont donate to charities everywhere they go" Oh wait...
And its not just companies paying for people to go, yes that happens but people pay out of pocket for these things to further their career. If anyone has any idea what good IT education costs in the Bay Area than you'll know $2500 is nothing...
You really think that more than one quarter of these people Pearl Jam fans? If so, I think you're wrong. Meaning that I think that perhaps one quarter of them are fans. So please don't twist my words - same request you just made of me.
You are speaking as though you have specific inside knowledge of this gig, since you are telling me and just about everyone else that we have no clue what we're talking about. So if you do have inside knowledge, how about enlightening us fools? If you don't have specific inside knowledge, and the only edge you think you have is understand how an IT conference works, then you don't have an edge at all. I work for Online Education - I am fully aware of what IT conferences are all about.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Yeah, and the world is a very different place, the money party is over.
Intentions in the present?
HOW ABOUT PROVIDING FOR YOUR EMPLOYEES AND MAKING SURE YOUR FAMILY IS TAKEN CARE OF AFTER YOU ARE GONE.
You're pretty worked up arent ya, sunshine?
I'm sure Pj's families are going to be in line for foodstamps without this show.
I'm sure they have no other means of raising money to keep their employees paid.
As for the conference....you talk like the attendees are paying $2500 for this out of pocket, and are there solely to learn....c'mon man. Anyone who pays this out of pocket is a biz owner who is writing it off, or they're so loaded they don't give a shit how much it costs. You KNOW the average attendee was offered a trip to this thing as a perk, not as a way to further their career, or learn about the latest software. Do you work in the IT industry? I don't....but I know how it is in my industry, and every other industry that I know people in. it's a free vacation with a work veil. But keep looking down your nose with your superior worldview, telling everyone else they don't know what they're talking about....since apparently you are (sorry, your wife is) the only person who knows what goes on at biz conferences.
I'm not calling anyone money-grubbing assholes...my issue is that the band doesnt' seem to care about the optics of playing this gig...which sends a message that they don't care about their fans opinions at all. Which is fine, but like I said...the risk is losing long time fans over a one-time payday. Their prerogative.
Wow, thank you for educating all us stupid fucking idiots oh wise one.... You really have a way of phrasing things!
I never called anyone a stupid fucking idiot, dont put words in my mouth.
But in this thread? There are a ton people that think they know, and they have NO IDEA. Educate yourself people. Learn how the world works. People dont live in the 90s anymore. We are on the edge of a global financial collapse. PJ should be grabbing all the money they can and buying gold with it.
The PJ way they've always preached: "Grab all they money you can!"
Good lord.
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
Wow, thank you for educating all us stupid fucking idiots oh wise one.... You really have a way of phrasing things!
I never called anyone a stupid fucking idiot, dont put words in my mouth.
But in this thread? There are a ton people that think they know, and they have NO IDEA. Educate yourself people. Learn how the world works. People dont live in the 90s anymore. We are on the edge of a global financial collapse. PJ should be grabbing all the money they can and buying gold with it.
YOu honestly think people on this thread don't know how the world works??? That they aren't educated about such matters? That they think it's still the 90s? That they don't understand the financial situation in the world? Come on man... stop being so arrogant (sorry, I can't think of a nicer word for your comment - not trying to start a fight or be aggressive). We know and understand - give us some credit. We know, and STILL have feelings about this choice of PJ's. Thinking in greys - it's a good thing. You are entitled to be totally in support of this gig. But I do wish you'd stop assuming we don't agree just because we don't understand anything. And yeah... PJ should just become massive money grubbers, ripping people off wherever they can manage, even? So they can hoard money and gold as they get ready for the collapse? Really?
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
The Institute for Policy Studies, a self-described "progressive multi-issue think tank," analyzed the link between tax loopholes and excessive executive compensation and concluded that the loopholes created an "uneven playing field" between large companies and small businesses and led to lost tax revenue.
The latest edition of the institute's annual Executive Excess compensation study found that in 2011, 26 CEOs received more in compensation than their companies paid in taxes, and that the four major tax loopholes contributing to excessive executive pay cost taxpayers about $14.4 billion a year.
"The report is timely at a time when the tax debate is so intense in this country," Sarah Anderson, the institute's global economy project director and the report's co-author, told ABC News. "Some leaders are saying we need to reduce the corporate tax burden even more while major companies are taking advantage of loopholes to lower their tax bill."
The report critiqued the major tax loopholes, including the preferential treatment of "carried interest" income for hedge fund managers. "Carried interest" income can be taxed as capital gains - at 15 percent tops - instead of at 35 percent, the top income tax rate. The Congressional Budget Office's projected estimate for "carried interest" income - revenue from investment income or dividends - for 2012 to 2021 was $21.4 billion.
Companies can deduct executive pay as a business expense, just as they do inventory and appreciation. Because of a tax rule enacted in the early 1990s that limited the amount of cash that could be deducted to $1 million, corporations have increasingly paid executives in stock options. Corporations can exempt stock option compensation, and other performance-based pay, from taxation.
William McBride, chief economist with the Tax Foundation, a conservative-leaning nonpartisan think tank, said this makes sense, because stock options are speculative compensation.
"They're worth nothing unless they're in the money," McBride told ABC News. "It wouldn't be fair to tax someone for getting paid an option that doesn't have any real value until it has been exercised."
Steven Balsam, an accounting professor at the Fox School of Business at Temple University and who published a study earlier this week for the Economic Policy Institute, "Taxes and Executive Compensation," said from a business viewpoint, "it's an expense, just like any other person's salary."
Others defend performance-based compensation for high-performing executives who have overseen companies with increasing earnings and stock prices.
Balsam said it was unlikely that boards would limit executive pay even if their pay was not tax deductible.
Anderson, who co-wrote the report, said that company boards that might choose to forfeit the deduction and continue paying high compensation packages "are stacked with executives from other firms that have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.
"However, we need to keep chipping away at the myth that massive payouts are necessary to attract talented managers," she said. "Having a meaningful deductibility cap would send the right message, and at least taxpayers wouldn't have to continue to subsidize excessive pay."
The report points to the largest beneficiaries of the tax loopholes, saying they benefit the most from the unlimited tax deductibility of executive paybecause their compensation has the largest proportion of deductible, performanced-based pay.
Oracle's Larry Ellison, the sixth richest person in the world with a net worth of $36 billion, according to Forbes, tops the list, and is followed by Discovery Communications' David Zaslav; Viacom's Philippe Dauman; Motorola Mobility Holdings' Sanjay Jha; and CBS Corp.'s Leslie Moonves.
Neither Oracle, Discovery Communications, Viacom and Motorola Mobility Holdings returned calls requesting comment. A spokeswoman for CBS Corp. and a spokeswoman for Discovery declined to comment.
The Institute for Policy Studies, a self-described "progressive multi-issue think tank," analyzed the link between tax loopholes and excessive executive compensation and concluded that the loopholes created an "uneven playing field" between large companies and small businesses and led to lost tax revenue.
The latest edition of the institute's annual Executive Excess compensation study found that in 2011, 26 CEOs received more in compensation than their companies paid in taxes, and that the four major tax loopholes contributing to excessive executive pay cost taxpayers about $14.4 billion a year.
"The report is timely at a time when the tax debate is so intense in this country," Sarah Anderson, the institute's global economy project director and the report's co-author, told ABC News. "Some leaders are saying we need to reduce the corporate tax burden even more while major companies are taking advantage of loopholes to lower their tax bill."
The report critiqued the major tax loopholes, including the preferential treatment of "carried interest" income for hedge fund managers. "Carried interest" income can be taxed as capital gains - at 15 percent tops - instead of at 35 percent, the top income tax rate. The Congressional Budget Office's projected estimate for "carried interest" income - revenue from investment income or dividends - for 2012 to 2021 was $21.4 billion.
Companies can deduct executive pay as a business expense, just as they do inventory and appreciation. Because of a tax rule enacted in the early 1990s that limited the amount of cash that could be deducted to $1 million, corporations have increasingly paid executives in stock options. Corporations can exempt stock option compensation, and other performance-based pay, from taxation.
William McBride, chief economist with the Tax Foundation, a conservative-leaning nonpartisan think tank, said this makes sense, because stock options are speculative compensation.
"They're worth nothing unless they're in the money," McBride told ABC News. "It wouldn't be fair to tax someone for getting paid an option that doesn't have any real value until it has been exercised."
Steven Balsam, an accounting professor at the Fox School of Business at Temple University and who published a study earlier this week for the Economic Policy Institute, "Taxes and Executive Compensation," said from a business viewpoint, "it's an expense, just like any other person's salary."
Others defend performance-based compensation for high-performing executives who have overseen companies with increasing earnings and stock prices.
Balsam said it was unlikely that boards would limit executive pay even if their pay was not tax deductible.
Anderson, who co-wrote the report, said that company boards that might choose to forfeit the deduction and continue paying high compensation packages "are stacked with executives from other firms that have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.
"However, we need to keep chipping away at the myth that massive payouts are necessary to attract talented managers," she said. "Having a meaningful deductibility cap would send the right message, and at least taxpayers wouldn't have to continue to subsidize excessive pay."
The report points to the largest beneficiaries of the tax loopholes, saying they benefit the most from the unlimited tax deductibility of executive paybecause their compensation has the largest proportion of deductible, performanced-based pay.
Oracle's Larry Ellison, the sixth richest person in the world with a net worth of $36 billion, according to Forbes, tops the list, and is followed by Discovery Communications' David Zaslav; Viacom's Philippe Dauman; Motorola Mobility Holdings' Sanjay Jha; and CBS Corp.'s Leslie Moonves.
Neither Oracle, Discovery Communications, Viacom and Motorola Mobility Holdings returned calls requesting comment. A spokeswoman for CBS Corp. and a spokeswoman for Discovery declined to comment.
As for the conference....you talk like the attendees are paying $2500 for this out of pocket, and are there solely to learn....c'mon man. Anyone who pays this out of pocket is a biz owner who is writing it off, or they're so loaded they don't give a shit how much it costs. You KNOW the average attendee was offered a trip to this thing as a perk, not as a way to further their career, or learn about the latest software. Do you work in the IT industry? I don't....but I know how it is in my industry, and every other industry that I know people in. it's a free vacation with a work veil. But keep looking down your nose with your superior worldview, telling everyone else they don't know what they're talking about....since apparently you are (sorry, your wife is) the only person who knows what goes on at biz conferences.
I'm not calling anyone money-grubbing assholes...my issue is that the band doesnt' seem to care about the optics of playing this gig...which sends a message that they don't care about their fans opinions at all. Which is fine, but like I said...the risk is losing long time fans over a one-time payday. Their prerogative.
You dont have the slightest idea what, first, things cost in the Bay Area and two, what IT education costs. People in the Bay have money to pay this all day long. You are kidding yourself if you think its just companies are just writing checks sending people to these things.
And yes I WILL continue to look down my nose at people that continue to be clueless about how things work.
"Jeee wizzz, why did my favorite band that (in my little fantasy world) wants to be dirt poor and barely make it, do this cushy cooperate gig, I just cant figure it out..."
Yeah, and the world is a very different place, the money party is over.
Intentions in the present?
HOW ABOUT PROVIDING FOR YOUR EMPLOYEES AND MAKING SURE YOUR FAMILY IS TAKEN CARE OF AFTER YOU ARE GONE.
You're pretty worked up arent ya, sunshine?
I'm sure Pj's families are going to be in line for foodstamps without this show.
I'm sure they have no other means of raising money to keep their employees paid.
As for the conference....you talk like the attendees are paying $2500 for this out of pocket, and are there solely to learn....c'mon man. Anyone who pays this out of pocket is a biz owner who is writing it off, or they're so loaded they don't give a shit how much it costs. You KNOW the average attendee was offered a trip to this thing as a perk, not as a way to further their career, or learn about the latest software. Do you work in the IT industry? I don't....but I know how it is in my industry, and every other industry that I know people in. it's a free vacation with a work veil. But keep looking down your nose with your superior worldview, telling everyone else they don't know what they're talking about....since apparently you are (sorry, your wife is) the only person who knows what goes on at biz conferences.
I'm not calling anyone money-grubbing assholes...my issue is that the band doesnt' seem to care about the optics of playing this gig...which sends a message that they don't care about their fans opinions at all. Which is fine, but like I said...the risk is losing long time fans over a one-time payday. Their prerogative.
Oh, well with that I'll disagree. Most of the people who attend these conferences are IT professionals who are sent by their employers, and the intent is indeed to learn some shit. That doesn't mean that it isn't basically a free vacation for the employee - that's still true! But it's not meant as a perk at all, and there do actually have to attend some workshops and learn something. Most employers make employees report on what it is they took away from the conference when they get back. And $2500 isn't totally out of line for such a conference. It's a bit pricey, but not way out there. That being said, I don't know a single person who wouldn't rather go and relax at a conference that offers rock concerts and parties at nice hotels after the couple of easy going and perfectly simple workshops than stay home and actually work! Because one thing that these conferences aren't is work!
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I can't believe this is such a hotly-contested issue.
They're entertainers. They're being paid to entertain. End of story.
To quote the 10C from Newsletter #8: "Please understand we have a lot of members and it is very hard to please everybody. If you are one of those unhappy people...please call 1-900-IDN-TCAR."
"Me knowing the truth, I can not concur."
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As for the conference....you talk like the attendees are paying $2500 for this out of pocket, and are there solely to learn....c'mon man. Anyone who pays this out of pocket is a biz owner who is writing it off, or they're so loaded they don't give a shit how much it costs. You KNOW the average attendee was offered a trip to this thing as a perk, not as a way to further their career, or learn about the latest software. Do you work in the IT industry? I don't....but I know how it is in my industry, and every other industry that I know people in. it's a free vacation with a work veil. But keep looking down your nose with your superior worldview, telling everyone else they don't know what they're talking about....since apparently you are (sorry, your wife is) the only person who knows what goes on at biz conferences.
I'm not calling anyone money-grubbing assholes...my issue is that the band doesnt' seem to care about the optics of playing this gig...which sends a message that they don't care about their fans opinions at all. Which is fine, but like I said...the risk is losing long time fans over a one-time payday. Their prerogative.
You dont have the slightest idea what, first, things cost in the Bay Area and two, what IT education costs. People in the Bay have money to pay this all day long. You are kidding yourself if you think its just companies are just writing checks sending people to these things.
And yes I WILL continue to look down my nose at people that continue to be clueless about how things work.
"Jeee wizzz, why did my favorite band that (in my little fantasy world) wants to be dirt poor and barely make it, do this cushy cooperate gig, I just cant figure it out..."
These guys were rich by 1993. Nobody wants them to be dirt poor. They're already millionaires. They have been for 20 years.
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
As for the conference....you talk like the attendees are paying $2500 for this out of pocket, and are there solely to learn....c'mon man. Anyone who pays this out of pocket is a biz owner who is writing it off, or they're so loaded they don't give a shit how much it costs. You KNOW the average attendee was offered a trip to this thing as a perk, not as a way to further their career, or learn about the latest software. Do you work in the IT industry? I don't....but I know how it is in my industry, and every other industry that I know people in. it's a free vacation with a work veil. But keep looking down your nose with your superior worldview, telling everyone else they don't know what they're talking about....since apparently you are (sorry, your wife is) the only person who knows what goes on at biz conferences.
I'm not calling anyone money-grubbing assholes...my issue is that the band doesnt' seem to care about the optics of playing this gig...which sends a message that they don't care about their fans opinions at all. Which is fine, but like I said...the risk is losing long time fans over a one-time payday. Their prerogative.
You dont have the slightest idea what, first, things cost in the Bay Area and two, what IT education costs. People in the Bay have money to pay this all day long. You are kidding yourself if you think its just companies are just writing checks sending people to these things.
And yes I WILL continue to look down my nose at people that continue to be clueless about how things work.
"Jeee wizzz, why did my favorite band that (in my little fantasy world) wants to be dirt poor and barely make it, do this cushy cooperate gig, I just cant figure it out..."
:fp: Yeah. THAT'S what we're saying. :roll: I'm starting think YOU are the one who is clueless. Until this comment, I was at least giving you credit for having on opinion based on how you interpret the world and how you personally view corporations and financial motivations. But now... not so much. So I dunno. Keep looking down your nose; it'll just make you cross-eyed.:D
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
As for the conference....you talk like the attendees are paying $2500 for this out of pocket, and are there solely to learn....c'mon man. Anyone who pays this out of pocket is a biz owner who is writing it off, or they're so loaded they don't give a shit how much it costs. You KNOW the average attendee was offered a trip to this thing as a perk, not as a way to further their career, or learn about the latest software. Do you work in the IT industry? I don't....but I know how it is in my industry, and every other industry that I know people in. it's a free vacation with a work veil. But keep looking down your nose with your superior worldview, telling everyone else they don't know what they're talking about....since apparently you are (sorry, your wife is) the only person who knows what goes on at biz conferences.
I'm not calling anyone money-grubbing assholes...my issue is that the band doesnt' seem to care about the optics of playing this gig...which sends a message that they don't care about their fans opinions at all. Which is fine, but like I said...the risk is losing long time fans over a one-time payday. Their prerogative.
You dont have the slightest idea what, first, things cost in the Bay Area and two, what IT education costs. People in the Bay have money to pay this all day long. You are kidding yourself if you think its just companies are just writing checks sending people to these things.
And yes I WILL continue to look down my nose at people that continue to be clueless about how things work.
"Jeee wizzz, why did my favorite band that (in my little fantasy world) wants to be dirt poor and barely make it, do this cushy cooperate gig, I just cant figure it out..."
My issue is not that Pearl Jam is not entitled to be super rich or make all the money they want. If Ed stops complaining from the stage and writing songs about the rich, corporations, etc. go ahead and play any gig you want. But if you (speaking about Ed, not SolarWorld) are going to continue to do so, you have to expect people to say, "Wait a minute, he's saying this and doing that? Hmmm."
And I'm not one who is offended they are doing this, I just can understand where people are coming from.
Obviously I don't expect PJ to rewrite the tax code, but thank you for your simplistic yet condescending response. What I’m saying is what the article said, that Larry made more money last year than his entire corporation paid in taxes, and that his company is the biggest abuser (beneficiary in some people’s minds) of taking advantage of our country’s flawed tax system for executive compensation, which places undue burden on the taxpayers.
Based on what Pearl Jam has rallied against for the last 2 decades, I just don’t understand why they are playing the Oracle conference. I live near Philly and have never missed a local PJ show in my area. But I was on the fence for the Made in America Festival, and this Oracle nonsense has pushed me over the side of not going. Just my opinion, but if PJ does not care about what they have stood for over the years, then their music has lost some authenticity and some fans won’t connect the same. I am one of them.
I can't believe this is such a hotly-contested issue.
They're entertainers. They're being paid to entertain. End of story.
Clearly, not for some people. Not for me - they're more than just entertainers for me, and for others... and, from what I can tell, for themselves. Some things just matter to some, while they don't to others. I understand why some don't care at all. I'm personally fairly middle of the road about it - disappointed but forgiving. Others care a lot and it's shaking their faith a tiny bit. I think all viewpoints are valid because in this case they reflect our valid perspectives of the band (and the world). I just don't like that tendency some people have to accuse people who don't agree with their opinions of "not getting it". Hey, we totally get it. We just don't agree with you.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Wow, thank you for educating all us stupid fucking idiots oh wise one.... You really have a way of phrasing things!
I never called anyone a stupid fucking idiot, dont put words in my mouth.
But in this thread? There are a ton people that think they know, and they have NO IDEA. Educate yourself people. Learn how the world works. People dont live in the 90s anymore. We are on the edge of a global financial collapse. PJ should be grabbing all the money they can and buying gold with it.
Well, pretty much. You said people's IQ points fell out of their heads, and hopefully their simple trains of thought can follow your big educated sense-making skills. It's about the same thing.
SolarWorld isn't really Kelly Curtis, is it?? You sure seem to know a lot about the band's decision making process and finances. Wait, maybe you're that guy who embezzled all the money! The jig is up!
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Comments
Eddie could have never worked after 1995 and his family would have never had to worry about eating.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Technically, I would imagine Pearl Jam is set up as an LLC.
You know all these IT people arent fans? I know 3 people that were already going to this conference before hand that are now pumped. I saw another guy say he couldn't go to the Tester show because of this conference. He day was just made.
You are drawing sweeping conclusions about something you know nothing about, The deal and the bands motivations for doing this.
"They MUST be a bunch of money grubbing aholes to do this gig!" :fp: "I mean its not like they dont donate to charities everywhere they go" Oh wait...
And its not just companies paying for people to go, yes that happens but people pay out of pocket for these things to further their career. If anyone has any idea what good IT education costs in the Bay Area than you'll know $2500 is nothing...
I never called anyone a stupid fucking idiot, dont put words in my mouth.
But in this thread? There are a ton people that think they know, and they have NO IDEA. Educate yourself people. Learn how the world works. People dont live in the 90s anymore. We are on the edge of a global financial collapse. PJ should be grabbing all the money they can and buying gold with it.
Okay, I'm totally joking. I'm still stuck somewhere between mildly disappointed and "this feels really really weird" but I don't think the band owes me an explanation. I will still love and support them, but maybe next time Ed goes off about big corporations at a show, I might roll my eyes. If he's not looking.
As a long-time fan, I am entitled to form an opinion, just as the rest of you are. It may be different than what other people think, doesn't mean I love the band any more or less than them and it certainly doesn't make me a bad person. The fact that we can have such an emotional reaction to this is a privilege, there are people out in the world who are worrying about more serious things like clean water and feeding their kids.
Long way of saying, I agree 100% with PJ_Soul
You are speaking as though you have specific inside knowledge of this gig, since you are telling me and just about everyone else that we have no clue what we're talking about. So if you do have inside knowledge, how about enlightening us fools? If you don't have specific inside knowledge, and the only edge you think you have is understand how an IT conference works, then you don't have an edge at all. I work for Online Education - I am fully aware of what IT conferences are all about.
I'm sure Pj's families are going to be in line for foodstamps without this show.
I'm sure they have no other means of raising money to keep their employees paid.
As for the conference....you talk like the attendees are paying $2500 for this out of pocket, and are there solely to learn....c'mon man. Anyone who pays this out of pocket is a biz owner who is writing it off, or they're so loaded they don't give a shit how much it costs. You KNOW the average attendee was offered a trip to this thing as a perk, not as a way to further their career, or learn about the latest software. Do you work in the IT industry? I don't....but I know how it is in my industry, and every other industry that I know people in. it's a free vacation with a work veil. But keep looking down your nose with your superior worldview, telling everyone else they don't know what they're talking about....since apparently you are (sorry, your wife is) the only person who knows what goes on at biz conferences.
I'm not calling anyone money-grubbing assholes...my issue is that the band doesnt' seem to care about the optics of playing this gig...which sends a message that they don't care about their fans opinions at all. Which is fine, but like I said...the risk is losing long time fans over a one-time payday. Their prerogative.
The PJ way they've always preached: "Grab all they money you can!"
Good lord.
Taxpayers Subsidize CEO Pay, Report Says
The Institute for Policy Studies, a self-described "progressive multi-issue think tank," analyzed the link between tax loopholes and excessive executive compensation and concluded that the loopholes created an "uneven playing field" between large companies and small businesses and led to lost tax revenue.
The latest edition of the institute's annual Executive Excess compensation study found that in 2011, 26 CEOs received more in compensation than their companies paid in taxes, and that the four major tax loopholes contributing to excessive executive pay cost taxpayers about $14.4 billion a year.
"The report is timely at a time when the tax debate is so intense in this country," Sarah Anderson, the institute's global economy project director and the report's co-author, told ABC News. "Some leaders are saying we need to reduce the corporate tax burden even more while major companies are taking advantage of loopholes to lower their tax bill."
The report critiqued the major tax loopholes, including the preferential treatment of "carried interest" income for hedge fund managers. "Carried interest" income can be taxed as capital gains - at 15 percent tops - instead of at 35 percent, the top income tax rate. The Congressional Budget Office's projected estimate for "carried interest" income - revenue from investment income or dividends - for 2012 to 2021 was $21.4 billion.
Companies can deduct executive pay as a business expense, just as they do inventory and appreciation. Because of a tax rule enacted in the early 1990s that limited the amount of cash that could be deducted to $1 million, corporations have increasingly paid executives in stock options. Corporations can exempt stock option compensation, and other performance-based pay, from taxation.
William McBride, chief economist with the Tax Foundation, a conservative-leaning nonpartisan think tank, said this makes sense, because stock options are speculative compensation.
"They're worth nothing unless they're in the money," McBride told ABC News. "It wouldn't be fair to tax someone for getting paid an option that doesn't have any real value until it has been exercised."
Steven Balsam, an accounting professor at the Fox School of Business at Temple University and who published a study earlier this week for the Economic Policy Institute, "Taxes and Executive Compensation," said from a business viewpoint, "it's an expense, just like any other person's salary."
Others defend performance-based compensation for high-performing executives who have overseen companies with increasing earnings and stock prices.
Balsam said it was unlikely that boards would limit executive pay even if their pay was not tax deductible.
Anderson, who co-wrote the report, said that company boards that might choose to forfeit the deduction and continue paying high compensation packages "are stacked with executives from other firms that have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.
"However, we need to keep chipping away at the myth that massive payouts are necessary to attract talented managers," she said. "Having a meaningful deductibility cap would send the right message, and at least taxpayers wouldn't have to continue to subsidize excessive pay."
The report points to the largest beneficiaries of the tax loopholes, saying they benefit the most from the unlimited tax deductibility of executive paybecause their compensation has the largest proportion of deductible, performanced-based pay.
Oracle's Larry Ellison, the sixth richest person in the world with a net worth of $36 billion, according to Forbes, tops the list, and is followed by Discovery Communications' David Zaslav; Viacom's Philippe Dauman; Motorola Mobility Holdings' Sanjay Jha; and CBS Corp.'s Leslie Moonves.
Neither Oracle, Discovery Communications, Viacom and Motorola Mobility Holdings returned calls requesting comment. A spokeswoman for CBS Corp. and a spokeswoman for Discovery declined to comment.
Just saying...
You want PJ to rewrite the tax code?
Yeah, but, CEO's gotta put food on the table too!
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
You dont have the slightest idea what, first, things cost in the Bay Area and two, what IT education costs. People in the Bay have money to pay this all day long. You are kidding yourself if you think its just companies are just writing checks sending people to these things.
And yes I WILL continue to look down my nose at people that continue to be clueless about how things work.
"Jeee wizzz, why did my favorite band that (in my little fantasy world) wants to be dirt poor and barely make it, do this cushy cooperate gig, I just cant figure it out..."
...Since 10c wants to know...
And technically, the C in LLC stands for???
I know .......I know....
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=What+does+LLC+mean%3F
I can't believe this is such a hotly-contested issue.
They're entertainers. They're being paid to entertain. End of story.
"Me knowing the truth, I can not concur."
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These guys were rich by 1993. Nobody wants them to be dirt poor. They're already millionaires. They have been for 20 years.
My issue is not that Pearl Jam is not entitled to be super rich or make all the money they want. If Ed stops complaining from the stage and writing songs about the rich, corporations, etc. go ahead and play any gig you want. But if you (speaking about Ed, not SolarWorld) are going to continue to do so, you have to expect people to say, "Wait a minute, he's saying this and doing that? Hmmm."
And I'm not one who is offended they are doing this, I just can understand where people are coming from.
Obviously I don't expect PJ to rewrite the tax code, but thank you for your simplistic yet condescending response. What I’m saying is what the article said, that Larry made more money last year than his entire corporation paid in taxes, and that his company is the biggest abuser (beneficiary in some people’s minds) of taking advantage of our country’s flawed tax system for executive compensation, which places undue burden on the taxpayers.
Based on what Pearl Jam has rallied against for the last 2 decades, I just don’t understand why they are playing the Oracle conference. I live near Philly and have never missed a local PJ show in my area. But I was on the fence for the Made in America Festival, and this Oracle nonsense has pushed me over the side of not going. Just my opinion, but if PJ does not care about what they have stood for over the years, then their music has lost some authenticity and some fans won’t connect the same. I am one of them.
Well, pretty much. You said people's IQ points fell out of their heads, and hopefully their simple trains of thought can follow your big educated sense-making skills. It's about the same thing.
SolarWorld isn't really Kelly Curtis, is it?? You sure seem to know a lot about the band's decision making process and finances. Wait, maybe you're that guy who embezzled all the money! The jig is up!
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