It's because of what playing a private corporate conference represents vs the viewpoints that they have always and still do purport to hold and express. For me it's a mistake or bad judgment that I can forgive, but I guess some others feel more strongly about what it means to them. I wish some of you would stop acting like those people are morons. People feel different things for different reasons - at least respect their feelings, even if you aren't reacting the same way to the whole thing.
So you must have major issues with this then too...
It's because of what playing a private corporate conference represents vs the viewpoints that they have always and still do purport to hold and express. For me it's a mistake or bad judgment that I can forgive, but I guess some others feel more strongly about what it means to them. I wish some of you would stop acting like those people are morons. People feel different things for different reasons - at least respect their feelings, even if you aren't reacting the same way to the whole thing.
So you must have major issues with this then too...
OH MY GOD THEY ARE DOING BUSINESS WITH A CORPORATION!!! AHHHHH!!! WHAT THE HELL PEARL JAM!?! AHHHH!!!
:fp:
If you'd read any of my previous posts, you would know I'm not the one with a huge problem with this. I'm a bit disappointed, but I'm not flying off the handle... unlike most people here, no matter which side of the fence they land on. :?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I hate to say it but speedy, we probably didn't want to believe that "our" band was becoming what they/us detested. A CORPORATE BAND. You're absolutely correct speedy, they have been transforming right infront of our eyes for the past 10 years. And to think Ed once said that NO ONE should have to pay more than $20 for a show. Now days it costs more than $20 just to fucken park at the venue. Tix cost $90 ea, t shirts, fuck, $40, posters $30, etc....reality is setting in, times have changed, people have changed, guess its time to stop being in denial and except it that pj is a corporate band. Albeit a fucking killer band at that!!!! And I know speedy, you don't give a rats ass about my post!!! Hahahaha
A KILLER band that hasnt played a full USA tour in how many years?
Since 2003?
But we keep sending them are $20-$40 a year....Dont we???
I couldn't care less about where and how often they tour. Has no effect on my love of them at all. They will tour where they want and when they want, which is exactly what I'd do if I were them. They're not paying you to be their fan or pay membership fees. You can bail any time you want.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
It's because of what playing a private corporate conference represents vs the viewpoints that they have always and still do purport to hold and express. For me it's a mistake or bad judgment that I can forgive, but I guess some others feel more strongly about what it means to them. I wish some of you would stop acting like those people are morons. People feel different things for different reasons - at least respect their feelings, even if you aren't reacting the same way to the whole thing.
So you must have major issues with this then too...
OH MY GOD THEY ARE DOING BUSINESS WITH A CORPORATION!!! AHHHHH!!! WHAT THE HELL PEARL JAM!?! AHHHH!!!
:fp:
If you'd read any of my previous posts, you would know I'm not the one with a huge problem with this. I'm a bit disappointed, but I'm not flying off the handle... unlike most people here, no matter which side of the fence they land on. :?
No No No this apparently goes against "the viewpoints that they have always and still do purport to hold and express."
My point is most fans are completely clueless to how the business world works and what kind of expenses are involved with running a business as big as Pearl Jam. If they have the opportunity to offset some expenses so they can, I dont know PAY THEIR CREW, they take it. They can't worry about what a bunch of unrealistic fans, still living in the 90s, think about how they choose to run the BUSINESS.
My 2c:
If we’re going to look at PJ as a business (and not as the group of artists they forever wanted us to view them as), we can analyze their actions using capitalist terms: risk/reward.
Out of all of the things people have called PJ a sellout for: YL on Friends, the Target stuff, Ed marrying models, playing CEO bday parties, attending black-tie circle jerks, making videos, ticket prices, meet n greets, etc….this is the first time I just can’t justify the optics to myself….I don’t like the end result of examining the risk/reward of the Oracle gig.
Nearly every sellout accusation against PJ can be justified as the band looking to stay relevant via increased marketing (Target), personal favours (bday party, possibly YL), changing music biz (ticket prices), or none-of-our-damn-business (who Ed married). At least with the Target gig, with the risk being fan backlash, there was a reward in the business relationship that allowed them wide, hassle-free distribution….which benefits fans and exposes the band to potential new fans. And they HAVE to KNOW there is going to be a backlash, after their decades of preaching against the man…….With this gig…the risk is the same (fan backlash)…but the only reward I see is a big payday. Maybe there is a personal favour angle or something....but even so, at face value, I can't see a reward that justifies the risk. There is no benefit to anyone but Oracle, a few employees who are fans, and PJ’s wallet. So reading between the lines, it’s a selfish act that they KNOW will tarnish their image and piss off a lot of their long-time fans…and they don’t give a shit. Fuck ‘em, right? They’ll get over it, right? I dunno….
I’ve never looked at Chris Cornell the same since he cancelled a show to play for some jeans company execs. I still listen to him and support him….but I lost a TON of respect for him from an integrity standpoint. At least PJ didn’t cancel on their fans to do this show instead. That would be damn near unforgiveable. Wait, when was that second night in Missoula supposed to happen? I’m pretty disappointed by this. No fuckin Messiah indeed.
k, that was more like $2
as an oracle employee, i must say this backlash seems naive and misguided. i am not a master of war, i am not an evil corporate barbarian... i am just like you guys. i go to bonnaroo to see my favorite band, i bend over backwards to get to alpine to see pj20. i am a huge fan, and lots of my peers are too. this event will be rocking.
and it's a technology conference with a music festival around it. that's not so different from an arts and music festival, is it? or a political fundraiser a la missoula. what's the difference?
every year we have the biggest technology conference in the world in san francisco. we raise a ton of money for the city of SF, the city relies on this event. we have tried to move it, but the economics of it are so important to the city, that we stay there. and every year there is a concert night. i have seen the chili peppers, tom petty, prince, billy joel, beck, sting... the list goes on and on. and lots of companies do this. shit, bob dylan played for a google conference.
the price for the entire conference is $2400. it's all week long and is just like any other trade conference, other than it is the biggest tech conference in the world. the tickets to the concert are free for anyone that attends the conference - ~40,000 people per year attend. and it's not all stuffed suits. it's a lot of normal people like me and you. its customers, its partners, its employees of oracle. this is not some millionaires only event. would it be different if they played for a teacher's union?
im sorry, i just really don't understand all this backlash. i say good for them. it's a big audience, it'll be a good party, and i can't wait to rock out with my colleagues, friends, and PJ.
You’ve got to be kidding. Yes, I'm sure there are some brilliant people speaking, and in attendance….but don’ try to fool yourself into thinking this isn’t just a free vacation for 95% of the people there. Get drunk and eat on your company’s tab at night, fight to keep your eyes open during some lame seminar during the day. If there are PJ fans in attendance, it's a coincidence. These people would go no matter who was playing, because they're not paying for it out of pocket! This is an exclusive party first and foremost – a ‘perk’ for working for/with Oracle. If it was really all about networking and business, they wouldn’t shell out seven figures for the entertainment.
You’ve got to be kidding. Yes, I'm sure there are some brilliant people speaking, and in attendance….but don’ try to fool yourself into thinking this isn’t just a free vacation for 95% of the people there. Get drunk and eat on your company’s tab at night, fight to keep your eyes open during some lame seminar during the day. If there are PJ fans in attendance, it's a coincidence. These people would go no matter who was playing, because they're not paying for it out of pocket! This is an exclusive party first and foremost – a ‘perk’ for working for/with Oracle. If it was really all about networking and business, they wouldn’t shell out seven figures for the entertainment.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Learn something about the conference and the people that attend before you open your mouth. :roll:
Most everyone here would agree that PJ is one of the best bands to exist.
Now after 20 years they might be getting some large paydays for minimal work.
We praise them and put them up on a pedestals but when they get compensated for all their hard work and 20 year career, people slight them for it?
It's absolutely insane...
can you not see that part of what made them famous and helped them maintain such a loyal fanbase was their refusal to do things like this? To me, it's not much different than Metallica making pop-metal and passing it off as 'growth'.
Not the end of the world, and not enough to make me forget the greatness of the past....but def enough to make me question their intentions in the present.
I hate to say it but speedy, we probably didn't want to believe that "our" band was becoming what they/us detested. A CORPORATE BAND. You're absolutely correct speedy, they have been transforming right infront of our eyes for the past 10 years. And to think Ed once said that NO ONE should have to pay more than $20 for a show. Now days it costs more than $20 just to fucken park at the venue. Tix cost $90 ea, t shirts, fuck, $40, posters $30, etc....reality is setting in, times have changed, people have changed, guess its time to stop being in denial and except it that pj is a corporate band. Albeit a fucking killer band at that!!!! And I know speedy, you don't give a rats ass about my post!!! Hahahaha
do you know what inflation means? $20 for a show 15 YEARS AGO is the same as $80 for a show now. I have paid way more for bands that are inferior to Pearl Jam over the years. And none of those bands play for nearly 3 hours and play 30 songs.
NONE.
I was gonna say the same thing. They really aren't charging much more for tickets now than they ever were after taking inflation into account.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
You’ve got to be kidding. Yes, I'm sure there are some brilliant people speaking, and in attendance….but don’ try to fool yourself into thinking this isn’t just a free vacation for 95% of the people there. Get drunk and eat on your company’s tab at night, fight to keep your eyes open during some lame seminar during the day. If there are PJ fans in attendance, it's a coincidence. These people would go no matter who was playing, because they're not paying for it out of pocket! This is an exclusive party first and foremost – a ‘perk’ for working for/with Oracle. If it was really all about networking and business, they wouldn’t shell out seven figures for the entertainment.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Learn something about the conference and the people that attend before you open your mouth. :roll:
did you just tell me to shut up? :roll:
ok, explain what I have wrong, smart guy. I'm sure this conference is allll business, right?
I don't know why people use the "people change" thing as a valid excuse for people to change what they built their foundation on. Ed was just ranting about corporate shit and Occupy Wall St. within the past couple months. This isn't like they just shut-up about this stuff. They are doing a concert supporting Jon Tester and Ed has openly supported Nader...who stands for everything but the corporations. They changed pretty damn quick then.
That is also a good point. This decision is definitely going against the values they seem to hold NOW, not just the ones they held 10 - 20 years ago. THAT'S why some people are pissed.... no one like a hypocrite... and anyone who says they're NOT a hypocrite is also a LIAR. So where does that leave us?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Most everyone here would agree that PJ is one of the best bands to exist.
Now after 20 years they might be getting some large paydays for minimal work.
We praise them and put them up on a pedestals but when they get compensated for all their hard work and 20 year career, people slight them for it?
It's absolutely insane...
can you not see that part of what made them famous and helped them maintain such a loyal fanbase was their refusal to do things like this? To me, it's not much different than Metallica making pop-metal and passing it off as 'growth'.
Not the end of the world, and not enough to make me forget the greatness of the past....but def enough to make me question their intentions in the present.
Yeah, and the world is a very different place, the money party is over.
Intentions in the present?
HOW ABOUT PROVIDING FOR YOUR EMPLOYEES AND MAKING SURE YOUR FAMILY IS TAKEN CARE OF AFTER YOU ARE GONE.
Maybe playing at this conference is a ploy. "Keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer." Perhaps the guys are infiltrating the corporate world to raise awareness in the long run. Who knows. Either way it will be interesting to hear what Ed has to say during the concert.
62698 E Troy, 81800 Indy, 42303 Champagne, 42503 Cleveland, 10204 Toledo, 10304 Grand Rapids, 91105 Kitchener, 51606 Chicago, 51706 Chicago, 62606 St. Paul, 8507 Chicago, 82109 Toronto, 82309 Chicago, 82409 Chicago, 5910 Cleveland, 9311 E Troy, 9411 E Troy, 91111 Toronto, 92112 Pensacola, 71913 Chicago, 101113 Pittsburgh, 101213 Buffalo UPCOMING: Cincy, Lincoln, Detroit, Moline, St Paul, Milwaukee
You’ve got to be kidding. Yes, I'm sure there are some brilliant people speaking, and in attendance….but don’ try to fool yourself into thinking this isn’t just a free vacation for 95% of the people there. Get drunk and eat on your company’s tab at night, fight to keep your eyes open during some lame seminar during the day. If there are PJ fans in attendance, it's a coincidence. These people would go no matter who was playing, because they're not paying for it out of pocket! This is an exclusive party first and foremost – a ‘perk’ for working for/with Oracle. If it was really all about networking and business, they wouldn’t shell out seven figures for the entertainment.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Learn something about the conference and the people that attend before you open your mouth. :roll:
did you just tell me to shut up? :roll:
ok, explain what I have wrong, smart guy. I'm sure this conference is allll business, right?
Exclusive Party? Its open to anyone that pays for the full convention. Your ignorance on these conferences is blinding me. You have never been to one obviously and have no idea what goes on there. If you think people pay 2500 for a week of BS and partying you have, like I said, NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.
I didnt tell you to shut up, I told you you shouldn't speak about things you clearly know nothing about.
do you know what inflation means? $20 for a show 15 YEARS AGO is the same as $80 for a show now. I have paid way more for bands that are inferior to Pearl Jam over the years. And none of those bands play for nearly 3 hours and play 30 songs.
NONE.
I was gonna say the same thing. They really aren't charging much more for tickets now than they ever were after taking inflation into account.
Um...$20 in 1994 (when I first saw them) is equal to just under $31 in today's dollars.
OH MY GOD THEY ARE DOING BUSINESS WITH A CORPORATION!!! AHHHHH!!! WHAT THE HELL PEARL JAM!?! AHHHH!!!
:fp:
If you'd read any of my previous posts, you would know I'm not the one with a huge problem with this. I'm a bit disappointed, but I'm not flying off the handle... unlike most people here, no matter which side of the fence they land on. :?
No No No this apparently goes against "the viewpoints that they have always and still do purport to hold and express."
My point is most fans are completely clueless to how the business world works and what kind of expenses are involved with running a business as big as Pearl Jam. If they have the opportunity to offset some expenses so they can, I dont know PAY THEIR CREW, they take it. They can't worry about what a bunch of unrealistic fans, still living in the 90s, think about how they choose to run the BUSINESS.
I'm not oblivious to it at all; I'm completely aware of overhead costs, and do agree that some people forget that they have an entire crew and warehouse and 10C staff to pay for. But knowing all that, I still think this gig was a bad choice, and it DOES go against the viewpoints that they have always and still do claim to hold and express. That and them making money to pay overhead aren't mutually exclusive. And I'll get over it as soon as this thread gets so vitriolic that they lock it.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
You’ve got to be kidding. Yes, I'm sure there are some brilliant people speaking, and in attendance….but don’ try to fool yourself into thinking this isn’t just a free vacation for 95% of the people there. Get drunk and eat on your company’s tab at night, fight to keep your eyes open during some lame seminar during the day. If there are PJ fans in attendance, it's a coincidence. These people would go no matter who was playing, because they're not paying for it out of pocket! This is an exclusive party first and foremost – a ‘perk’ for working for/with Oracle. If it was really all about networking and business, they wouldn’t shell out seven figures for the entertainment.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Learn something about the conference and the people that attend before you open your mouth. :roll:
did you just tell me to shut up? :roll:
ok, explain what I have wrong, smart guy. I'm sure this conference is allll business, right?
do you know what inflation means? $20 for a show 15 YEARS AGO is the same as $80 for a show now. I have paid way more for bands that are inferior to Pearl Jam over the years. And none of those bands play for nearly 3 hours and play 30 songs.
NONE.
I was gonna say the same thing. They really aren't charging much more for tickets now than they ever were after taking inflation into account.
Um...$20 in 1994 (when I first saw them) is equal to just under $31 in today's dollars.
do you know what inflation means? $20 for a show 15 YEARS AGO is the same as $80 for a show now. I have paid way more for bands that are inferior to Pearl Jam over the years. And none of those bands play for nearly 3 hours and play 30 songs.
NONE.
I was gonna say the same thing. They really aren't charging much more for tickets now than they ever were after taking inflation into account.
Um...$20 in 1994 (when I first saw them) is equal to just under $31 in today's dollars.
do you know what inflation means? $20 for a show 15 YEARS AGO is the same as $80 for a show now. I have paid way more for bands that are inferior to Pearl Jam over the years. And none of those bands play for nearly 3 hours and play 30 songs.
NONE.
I was gonna say the same thing. They really aren't charging much more for tickets now than they ever were after taking inflation into account.
Um...$20 in 1994 (when I first saw them) is equal to just under $31 in today's dollars.
You’ve got to be kidding. Yes, I'm sure there are some brilliant people speaking, and in attendance….but don’ try to fool yourself into thinking this isn’t just a free vacation for 95% of the people there. Get drunk and eat on your company’s tab at night, fight to keep your eyes open during some lame seminar during the day. If there are PJ fans in attendance, it's a coincidence. These people would go no matter who was playing, because they're not paying for it out of pocket! This is an exclusive party first and foremost – a ‘perk’ for working for/with Oracle. If it was really all about networking and business, they wouldn’t shell out seven figures for the entertainment.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Learn something about the conference and the people that attend before you open your mouth. :roll:
No, it's true ... most of those conferences are basically a free vacation for most of those people, with some workshops thrown in for good measure. Especially the ones where Pearl Jam is playing for them! I and DO know what I'm talking about. I work with the people who attend those conferences.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
do you know what inflation means? $20 for a show 15 YEARS AGO is the same as $80 for a show now. I have paid way more for bands that are inferior to Pearl Jam over the years. And none of those bands play for nearly 3 hours and play 30 songs.
NONE.
I was gonna say the same thing. They really aren't charging much more for tickets now than they ever were after taking inflation into account.
Um...$20 in 1994 (when I first saw them) is equal to just under $31 in today's dollars.
You’ve got to be kidding. Yes, I'm sure there are some brilliant people speaking, and in attendance….but don’ try to fool yourself into thinking this isn’t just a free vacation for 95% of the people there. Get drunk and eat on your company’s tab at night, fight to keep your eyes open during some lame seminar during the day. If there are PJ fans in attendance, it's a coincidence. These people would go no matter who was playing, because they're not paying for it out of pocket! This is an exclusive party first and foremost – a ‘perk’ for working for/with Oracle. If it was really all about networking and business, they wouldn’t shell out seven figures for the entertainment.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Learn something about the conference and the people that attend before you open your mouth. :roll:
No, it's true ... most of those conferences are basically a free vacation for most of those people, with some workshops thrown in for good measure. Especially the ones where Pearl Jam is playing for them! I and DO know what I'm talking about. I work with the people who attend those conferences.
My wife puts these on for Intel all over the world. Yeah they have parties and eat at nice restaurants but to think nothing of any substance goes on at these things is again showing you have no idea what you are talking about.
and it DOES go against the viewpoints that they have always and still do claim to hold and express.
Source?
Cause Stone just said he likes partnering with UPS to save money and lower carbon.
You must have all the details of this deal too since you believe its such an assault on their "views" and "beliefs"
:roll: :roll: I'm not providing sources for the view and beliefs of any given member of PJ. Give me a break. We all know what Ed and the other say and do, and we all probably interpret it in varying ways. If you want sources, do your own research, and draw your own conclusions; I don't care if you are disappointed or not about this. This is a thread based entirely on opinion.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
So you must have major issues with this then too...
http://thenewlogistics.ups.com/sustaina ... pearl-jam/
OH MY GOD THEY ARE DOING BUSINESS WITH A CORPORATION!!! AHHHHH!!! WHAT THE HELL PEARL JAM!?! AHHHH!!!
:fp:
That's a fair point, this has probably disillusioned the fuck out of some people.
No No No this apparently goes against "the viewpoints that they have always and still do purport to hold and express."
My point is most fans are completely clueless to how the business world works and what kind of expenses are involved with running a business as big as Pearl Jam. If they have the opportunity to offset some expenses so they can, I dont know PAY THEIR CREW, they take it. They can't worry about what a bunch of unrealistic fans, still living in the 90s, think about how they choose to run the BUSINESS.
If we’re going to look at PJ as a business (and not as the group of artists they forever wanted us to view them as), we can analyze their actions using capitalist terms: risk/reward.
Out of all of the things people have called PJ a sellout for: YL on Friends, the Target stuff, Ed marrying models, playing CEO bday parties, attending black-tie circle jerks, making videos, ticket prices, meet n greets, etc….this is the first time I just can’t justify the optics to myself….I don’t like the end result of examining the risk/reward of the Oracle gig.
Nearly every sellout accusation against PJ can be justified as the band looking to stay relevant via increased marketing (Target), personal favours (bday party, possibly YL), changing music biz (ticket prices), or none-of-our-damn-business (who Ed married). At least with the Target gig, with the risk being fan backlash, there was a reward in the business relationship that allowed them wide, hassle-free distribution….which benefits fans and exposes the band to potential new fans. And they HAVE to KNOW there is going to be a backlash, after their decades of preaching against the man…….With this gig…the risk is the same (fan backlash)…but the only reward I see is a big payday. Maybe there is a personal favour angle or something....but even so, at face value, I can't see a reward that justifies the risk. There is no benefit to anyone but Oracle, a few employees who are fans, and PJ’s wallet. So reading between the lines, it’s a selfish act that they KNOW will tarnish their image and piss off a lot of their long-time fans…and they don’t give a shit. Fuck ‘em, right? They’ll get over it, right? I dunno….
I’ve never looked at Chris Cornell the same since he cancelled a show to play for some jeans company execs. I still listen to him and support him….but I lost a TON of respect for him from an integrity standpoint. At least PJ didn’t cancel on their fans to do this show instead. That would be damn near unforgiveable. Wait, when was that second night in Missoula supposed to happen? I’m pretty disappointed by this. No fuckin Messiah indeed.
k, that was more like $2
Now after 20 years they might be getting some large paydays for minimal work.
We praise them and put them up on a pedestals but when they get compensated for all their hard work and 20 year career, people slight them for it?
It's absolutely insane...
You have no idea what you are talking about. Learn something about the conference and the people that attend before you open your mouth. :roll:
Not the end of the world, and not enough to make me forget the greatness of the past....but def enough to make me question their intentions in the present.
ok, explain what I have wrong, smart guy. I'm sure this conference is allll business, right?
Yeah, and the world is a very different place, the money party is over.
Intentions in the present?
HOW ABOUT PROVIDING FOR YOUR EMPLOYEES AND MAKING SURE YOUR FAMILY IS TAKEN CARE OF AFTER YOU ARE GONE.
:fp: :fp: :fp: :fp: :fp: :fp: :fp: :fp: :fp: :fp: :fp: :fp: :fp: :fp: :fp: :fp: :fp: :fp: :fp: :fp:
Exclusive Party? Its open to anyone that pays for the full convention. Your ignorance on these conferences is blinding me. You have never been to one obviously and have no idea what goes on there. If you think people pay 2500 for a week of BS and partying you have, like I said, NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.
I didnt tell you to shut up, I told you you shouldn't speak about things you clearly know nothing about.
Um...$20 in 1994 (when I first saw them) is equal to just under $31 in today's dollars.
http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm/
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
It's business time!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqZcYPEszN8
yep, and markets and prices change too.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Source?
Cause Stone just said he likes partnering with UPS to save money and lower carbon.
You must have all the details of this deal too since you believe its such an assault on their "views" and "beliefs"
Ha! But Eddie needs to feed his family!
The bureau of Labor's data is fucked.
Some more education for you people...
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/tale-t ... n-zirp-rev
Yeah. Making sure your family is well off now and in the future is such a dick move.
My wife puts these on for Intel all over the world. Yeah they have parties and eat at nice restaurants but to think nothing of any substance goes on at these things is again showing you have no idea what you are talking about.
"Its just a big party" :fp: