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Let Your Voice Be Heard

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    elwayvedderelwayvedder South Jersey Posts: 9,051
    an update on the status of resolving the Beta log in issues please as we are approaching 4 months. Much appreciated as always.
    -EV
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    lyearslyears Posts: 212
    an update on the status of resolving the Beta log in issues please as we are approaching 4 months. Much appreciated as always.
    -EV

    Not sure if the same issue as this, when I first enter the site it says i'm logged in but the forum seems to think I am not logged in and won't let me reply to posts - I have to log out and then log in again to post on the forums.
    Hyde Park 25/06/10 - Manchester 20/06/12 - Leeds 08/07/14
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    elwayvedderelwayvedder South Jersey Posts: 9,051
    lyears wrote:
    an update on the status of resolving the Beta log in issues please as we are approaching 4 months. Much appreciated as always.
    -EV

    Not sure if the same issue as this, when I first enter the site it says i'm logged in but the forum seems to think I am not logged in and won't let me reply to posts - I have to log out and then log in again to post on the forums.
    No, unfortunately my issue and many others I have spoken with is much worse. We literally cannot log in period from certain locations no matter the browser or the resolutions given to us that we try. The day we switched to Beta, myself and many others were no longer able to log in from work, their phones, or other places. In the beginning the 10c tried really hard to work with me, sending me emails back and forth to try new things but at first they thought it was on my end. Nothing changed on my end nor the ends of many others. I have basically given up hope and the only time I am on is when I am home and my usage has been minimal. Others have given up completely and you never see them post anymore. I understand there will be growing pains and such but at this point it just seems like it is what it is and there is no further updates or communication. Its not the end of the world or anything but an example of the frustration is not being able to reply to a thread right away or getting an email that you have a PM but you have to wait 10 hours until you get home to check it and respond to it etc. Life goes on but I miss these forums and this wonderful community. Thanks for listening.
    -EV
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    maya_vmaya_v Sofia, Bulgaria Posts: 59
    Dear band, please play during your next Euro tour at places where you have never played before like in Sofia (Bulgaria), for instance. It's in Eastern Europe, at the Balkans (yes, we also exist!). There are many PJ fans here who have been waiting for many years to see their favourite band and the bulgarian crowd is one of the best worldwide as other great bands said after their concerts here.

    Also I like thе idea of PJ playing gigs for 10 C members in Europe, North / South America, etc. :)

    Thank you and rock on!
    Amsterdam 26/06/2012, Amsterdam 27/06/2012, Milan 20/06/2014, Padova 24/06/2018, Berlin 21/06/2022
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    lyears wrote:

    Not sure if the same issue as this, when I first enter the site it says i'm logged in but the forum seems to think I am not logged in and won't let me reply to posts - I have to log out and then log in again to post on the forums.

    I have the same issue as you. Rather annoying to have to 'logout' and log back in to post. Better than not being able to post at all though, as others have been experiencing.
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    jamminpearlsjamminpearls Posts: 7,078
    Will a tour ever be announced all together again?
    Go Birds!!!!
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    papa_pearls_jam.pj20papa_pearls_jam.pj20 Chicago USA Posts: 2,142
    Please remove the "Live Chat". :thumbdown: What an incredible waste of time!

    Request those involved with the Pearl Jam website devote more time and energy in improving the site's Beta issues such as logging out to log in for access to The Forum.
    Posimists. Fuck the pessimists...fuck'em.
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    moses562moses562 Posts: 1,382
    Will the Ten Club sale the recent festival merchandise on the website? It stinks that people go to these shows and some buy up the merchandise and flip it on ebay. Then people who cannot attend the shows have to miss out on the sweet merchandise or settle for ebay.

    Or better yet, the band can release a new album and I can stop whining. :lol:
    "A man has the right to be as big as he feels it in him to be." Ken Kesey
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    Tiz10Tiz10 South Florida Posts: 270
    I know its not really worth much but here's my 2 cents,

    after having looked through the thread I've found a few things I agree with:

    1.) I would enjoy a "How to play" section where mike,stone,jeff,matt or eddie on the uke even show
    you how to play a certain riff or song or part. it lets us know the band is active on the website
    and is interactive with the fans as well.

    2.) Go ahead and get rid of the live chat portion of the website....doesnt seem to have much purpose and isnt
    very active or well designed.

    3.) I would like the option to purchase single or double tickets for pearl jam show. why not offer both?

    4.) Offer a fan club only tee shirt or poster when you renew your membership. maybe special 10 year
    and up members only shirt or poster for long time members loyalty.

    5.) Have a few members only contest or give aways, pick random members or random member #.

    6.) With overstocked posters add a mystery poster to random purchases. add a signature from a band
    member or 4 (lol) with a COA of some kind to give it a unique upgrade.

    7.) More patches available. believe it or not alot of people still have a use for patches.

    8.) With 10 club ticket purchase, have a total of 5? random fans get soundcheck access and/or show
    poster S/N

    9.) Announce all tour date at same time. with all 10 clubbers getting pre sale info earliest.

    10.) How about releasing PJ20 alpine valley as a box set with boots and dvd and possibly show only available
    merch.

    11.) How about another PJ live concert DVD/Blu ray?

    12.) Fan club only covers bootleg? hear Pj studio cover a few favorites.

    13.) Fix the avatar problems/log in,log out problems with the site.

    14.) Do the wristband method for posters at live events, no one really wants to baby sit their poster all night

    15.) More PJ backpacks and varieties.

    I know I dont post much on these forums but, as a life long pearl jam fan I love seeing the generosity and knowledge on the boards and want to be a part of the "community". I hope this post doesnt come off as "bitching" as that was not my intentions. just hoping that they do read and listen to our silent voices so to speak. thanks for listening.
    August 17th 1998 Indianapolis, IN
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    October 16th 2013 Worcester, MA
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    April 11th 2016 Tampa, FL
    August 5th 2016 Boston, MA (Fenway 1)
    August 7th 2016 Boston, MA (Fenway 2)
    April 7th 2017 Hall of Fame Induction Ceremony
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    papa_pearls_jam.pj20papa_pearls_jam.pj20 Chicago USA Posts: 2,142
    Tiz10 wrote:
    I know its not really worth much but here's my 2 cents,

    after having looked through the thread I've found a few things I agree with:

    1.) I would enjoy a "How to play" section where mike,stone,jeff,matt or eddie on the uke even show
    you how to play a certain riff or song or part. it lets us know the band is active on the website
    and is interactive with the fans as well.

    2.) Go ahead and get rid of the live chat portion of the website....doesnt seem to have much purpose and isnt
    very active or well designed.

    3.) I would like the option to purchase single or double tickets for pearl jam show. why not offer both?

    4.) Offer a fan club only tee shirt or poster when you renew your membership. maybe special 10 year
    and up members only shirt or poster for long time members loyalty.

    5.) Have a few members only contest or give aways, pick random members or random member #.

    6.) With overstocked posters add a mystery poster to random purchases. add a signature from a band
    member or 4 (lol) with a COA of some kind to give it a unique upgrade.

    7.) More patches available. believe it or not alot of people still have a use for patches.

    8.) With 10 club ticket purchase, have a total of 5? random fans get soundcheck access and/or show
    poster S/N

    9.) Announce all tour date at same time. with all 10 clubbers getting pre sale info earliest.

    10.) How about releasing PJ20 alpine valley as a box set with boots and dvd and possibly show only available
    merch.

    11.) How about another PJ live concert DVD/Blu ray?

    12.) Fan club only covers bootleg? hear Pj studio cover a few favorites.

    13.) Fix the avatar problems/log in,log out problems with the site.

    14.) Do the wristband method for posters at live events, no one really wants to baby sit their poster all night

    15.) More PJ backpacks and varieties.

    I know I dont post much on these forums but, as a life long pearl jam fan I love seeing the generosity and knowledge on the boards and want to be a part of the "community". I hope this post doesnt come off as "bitching" as that was not my intentions. just hoping that they do read and listen to our silent voices so to speak. thanks for listening.

    For what it's worth, I think you made some excellent points in a very constructive, yet all-encompassing way. Quite thoughtful, actually.
    :thumbup:
    Posimists. Fuck the pessimists...fuck'em.
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    Dear band,

    Next time you come to Brazil, please be assured to guarantee to your fans tickets at fair prices... The 3-day passport to Lollapalooza is being sold for $400 (yes, four hundred dollars, not considering the 20% sales tax)!!! It is too much for people like me, who work the entire month for a $500 salary. Yeah, I know that the band has nothing to do with the festival's organization, but at least the benefit for 10c members should be applicable for a single day ticket, which is not.

    I don't even want to mention how bad is the online sale... It's really a mess... In 2 minutes after beginning of online presale, I received a message telling that the tickets were sold out... Are you kidding me???

    And there are people who still get pissed off when guys like Chael Sonnen talk sh*t about Brazil...
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    Indifference71Indifference71 Chicago Posts: 14,747
    Dear band,

    Next time you come to Brazil, please be assured to guarantee to your fans tickets at fair prices... The 3-day passport to Lollapalooza is being sold for $400 (yes, four hundred dollars, not considering the 20% sales tax)!!! It is too much for people like me, who work the entire month for a $500 salary. Yeah, I know that the band has nothing to do with the festival's organization, but at least the benefit for 10c members should be applicable for a single day ticket, which is not.

    I don't even want to mention how bad is the online sale... It's really a mess... In 2 minutes after beginning of online presale, I received a message telling that the tickets were sold out... Are you kidding me???

    And there are people who still get pissed off when guys like Chael Sonnen talk sh*t about Brazil...


    Why can't people understand that the 10c has no control over any type of ticket sales for festivals??
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    dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam NINUNINOPRO Posts: 139,159
    Dear band,

    Next time you come to Brazil, please be assured to guarantee to your fans tickets at fair prices... The 3-day passport to Lollapalooza is being sold for $400 (yes, four hundred dollars, not considering the 20% sales tax)!!! It is too much for people like me, who work the entire month for a $500 salary. Yeah, I know that the band has nothing to do with the festival's organization, but at least the benefit for 10c members should be applicable for a single day ticket, which is not.

    I don't even want to mention how bad is the online sale... It's really a mess... In 2 minutes after beginning of online presale, I received a message telling that the tickets were sold out... Are you kidding me???

    And there are people who still get pissed off when guys like Chael Sonnen talk sh*t about Brazil...


    Why can't people understand that the 10c has no control over any type of ticket sales for festivals??
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
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    Why can't people understand that the 10c has no control over any type of ticket sales for festivals??[/quote]

    I understand... I'm not asking for help nor I hope that 10c could solve my problem... I am just telling a situation that bothers me. I am just trying to make my voice be heard... Isn't it the name of the topic?
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    PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,610
    Dear band,

    Next time you come to Brazil, please be assured to guarantee to your fans tickets at fair prices... The 3-day passport to Lollapalooza is being sold for $400 (yes, four hundred dollars, not considering the 20% sales tax)!!! It is too much for people like me, who work the entire month for a $500 salary. Yeah, I know that the band has nothing to do with the festival's organization, but at least the benefit for 10c members should be applicable for a single day ticket, which is not.

    I don't even want to mention how bad is the online sale... It's really a mess... In 2 minutes after beginning of online presale, I received a message telling that the tickets were sold out... Are you kidding me???

    And there are people who still get pissed off when guys like Chael Sonnen talk sh*t about Brazil...
    Pretty sure 10c can do absolutely nothing when it comes to the selling of those tickets... I think you need to be sending your concerns to the festival organizers if you want future improvements.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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    PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,610
    Why can't people understand that the 10c has no control over any type of ticket sales for festivals??

    I understand... I'm not asking for help nor I hope that 10c could solve my problem... I am just telling a situation that bothers me. I am just trying to make my voice be heard... Isn't it the name of the topic?[/quote]
    Yeah, but they can't solve this problem and never will be able to.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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    curlycurly Posts: 703
    Merch idea--- PJ Cooler
    Because PJ fans love tailgating, and tailgaters love PJ
    Or just sell some fucking badass stencils so we can spraypaint PJ logos all over the shit we already have

    I do like the cooler idea as well...

    Koozie's are cool though...it's a damn good start...
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    PapPap Aspra Spitia, Greece Posts: 28,304
    More Soundgarden, Tres Mts., RNDM, Jeff Ament, Stone Gossard, Brad, Eddie Vedder, Flight To Mars, Shadow, Three Fish, Wellwater Conspiracy, Hater, Jack Irons, Star Anna & The Laughing Dogs, Po & The 4fathers, The Rockfords, Deranged Diction, Green River, Mother Love Bone, Harrybu McCage, Temple Of The Dog and Mike McCready on PJ Radio please.
    Athens 2006 / Milton Keynes 2014 / London 1&2 2022 / Seattle 1&2 2024 / Dublin 2024 / Manchester 2024 / London 2024
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    PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,610
    Pap wrote:
    More Soundgarden, Tres Mts., RNDM, Jeff Ament, Stone Gossard, Brad, Eddie Vedder, Flight To Mars, Shadow, Three Fish, Wellwater Conspiracy, Hater, Jack Irons, Star Anna & The Laughing Dogs, Po & The 4fathers, The Rockfords, Deranged Diction, Green River, Mother Love Bone, Harrybu McCage, Temple Of The Dog and Mike McCready on PJ Radio please.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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    papa_pearls_jam.pj20papa_pearls_jam.pj20 Chicago USA Posts: 2,142
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    Pap wrote:
    More Soundgarden, Tres Mts., RNDM, Jeff Ament, Stone Gossard, Brad, Eddie Vedder, Flight To Mars, Shadow, Three Fish, Wellwater Conspiracy, Hater, Jack Irons, Star Anna & The Laughing Dogs, Po & The 4fathers, The Rockfords, Deranged Diction, Green River, Mother Love Bone, Harrybu McCage, Temple Of The Dog and Mike McCready on PJ Radio please.

    What? No Happy Chichester? C'mon!
    Posimists. Fuck the pessimists...fuck'em.
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    curlycurly Posts: 703
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    Dear band,

    Next time you come to Brazil, please be assured to guarantee to your fans tickets at fair prices... The 3-day passport to Lollapalooza is being sold for $400 (yes, four hundred dollars, not considering the 20% sales tax)!!! It is too much for people like me, who work the entire month for a $500 salary. Yeah, I know that the band has nothing to do with the festival's organization, but at least the benefit for 10c members should be applicable for a single day ticket, which is not.

    I don't even want to mention how bad is the online sale... It's really a mess... In 2 minutes after beginning of online presale, I received a message telling that the tickets were sold out... Are you kidding me???

    And there are people who still get pissed off when guys like Chael Sonnen talk sh*t about Brazil...
    Pretty sure 10c can do absolutely nothing when it comes to the selling of those tickets... I think you need to be sending your concerns to the festival organizers if you want future improvements.


    i totally feel yall"s pain....it's really sad how bad we get screwed but i really don't think there is anyway around it...
    Deluna Fest in Florida just 2 weeks ago...I had to buy tix for all 3 days festival ($225.00., ouch)..knowing pj was playing the 1st night and then we were driving to Atlanta for pj the next night 5 hours north...
    thankfully,...Midtown Music Fest in atlanta sold single night tix and for only $55.00. that was so fn' cool and i gotta give props when props are due...
    Atlanta, GA...We loved your city!!! and yes, we will be back to visit...

    Ya, i know, i know...deluna fest eventually sold single night tix....but not til the last minute and who could wait til then to buy tix after months of planning and booking hotels/etc etc...

    At the end of the day...still so so so thankful that i got to see them and i couldn't be more happier with the entire trip....
    Not to mention,...i'm sure it helps out all the smaller bands that dont have the DRAW that pj brings and this way many (bands and fans) get to expierence the great weekend of music and entertainment...
    peace, love and Pearl Jam....
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    curlycurly Posts: 703
    one things for certain...
    with the thousands of 10club members...
    things must be going pretty damn good...
    Because if people weren't all that happy with the fan club or wanted things major"ly changed...
    we'd be seeing thousands and thousands of posts on here...

    I think that says a lot for how great the 10club's really ran and it's great for you guys to take in even more idea's to possibly make it,... even better yet...

    So,.Keep up the great work...and i'm sure i speak for the majority on here...

    WE COULDN'T THANK THE PEARLJAM/TENCLUB/EXTENDED PJ FAMILY ENOUGH!!!

    :D:D:D
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    Yes WayYes Way Posts: 453
    I just finished reading the ESPN book, and a main theme in their success has been a dual revenue stream (advertisers and cable subscribers). With music, one of the main challenges today is that the revenue stream of album sales has very much decreased, leaving bands scrambling to find other sources of revenue.

    I think Pearl Jam has a strength that they could monetize, and one they're not taking full advantage of. I also think that taking advantage of this strength would be a benefit to their fans - and everyone knows that Pearl Jam has always thought highly of their fans.

    Pearl Jam could take a page out of Louis CK's book, and sell a video stream of every show for $5. The only difference is they could do it live.

    I'm talking about one camera and the sound coming from what the soundboard is hearing. If you want a McCready Cam, more power to you. But with all the people on this forum every single show, just keeping track of and commenting on what songs are being played, I would say there's an obvious untapped market. Also, there are many, many others (like me) who simply monitor and don't comment.

    Five bucks. Offer a discount for the full tour if you want. Whatever works. How much does a video camera cost? You'll have your money back in a couple shows, and you'll further cement the loyalty of the existing fanbase. Plus do something revolutionary on the level of releasing every show as an official bootleg.

    Concern 1: Will that reduce demand for the bootlegs?
    I can't say for sure, but the audio won't be remastered. I know my friend who has every boot would still get them all.

    Concern 2: What about DVDs?
    Don't broadcast a show that you're going to release via DVD. At least we'd know which DVDs were coming that way. ;) Or simply release a DVD with better camera angles than what we'd get from the simple show camera that also includes backstage and offstage stuff, ala Immagine in Cornice. I would still buy that DVD, even if I had seen all those shows.

    Concern 3: Will people stop coming to shows?
    I know I wouldn't. I can't say for sure, but every football game worth a damn is on TV and that doesn't stop people from going to games every weekend and stadiums from being sold out.

    Bonus: This has the potential to GREATLY cut down on the number of people recording the show with their phones. Who wouldn't love that?

    Show me where this doesn't work. As Bill Simmons would say, who says no to this?

    Thanks for listening.
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    PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,610
    Yes Way wrote:
    I just finished reading the ESPN book, and a main theme in their success has been a dual revenue stream (advertisers and cable subscribers). With music, one of the main challenges today is that the revenue stream of album sales has very much decreased, leaving bands scrambling to find other sources of revenue.

    I think Pearl Jam has a strength that they could monetize, and one they're not taking full advantage of. I also think that taking advantage of this strength would be a benefit to their fans - and everyone knows that Pearl Jam has always thought highly of their fans.

    Pearl Jam could take a page out of Louis CK's book, and sell a video stream of every show for $5. The only difference is they could do it live.

    I'm talking about one camera and the sound coming from what the soundboard is hearing. If you want a McCready Cam, more power to you. But with all the people on this forum every single show, just keeping track of and commenting on what songs are being played, I would say there's an obvious untapped market. Also, there are many, many others (like me) who simply monitor and don't comment.

    Five bucks. Offer a discount for the full tour if you want. Whatever works. How much does a video camera cost? You'll have your money back in a couple shows, and you'll further cement the loyalty of the existing fanbase. Plus do something revolutionary on the level of releasing every show as an official bootleg.

    Concern 1: Will that reduce demand for the bootlegs?
    I can't say for sure, but the audio won't be remastered. I know my friend who has every boot would still get them all.

    Concern 2: What about DVDs?
    Don't broadcast a show that you're going to release via DVD. At least we'd know which DVDs were coming that way. ;) Or simply release a DVD with better camera angles than what we'd get from the simple show camera that also includes backstage and offstage stuff, ala Immagine in Cornice. I would still buy that DVD, even if I had seen all those shows.

    Concern 3: Will people stop coming to shows?
    I know I wouldn't. I can't say for sure, but every football game worth a damn is on TV and that doesn't stop people from going to games every weekend and stadiums from being sold out.

    Bonus: This has the potential to GREATLY cut down on the number of people recording the show with their phones. Who wouldn't love that?

    Show me where this doesn't work. As Bill Simmons would say, who says no to this?

    Thanks for listening.
    Assuming this idea makes enough money to comfortably pay a cameraman and whatever other costs involved in getting it done, while still bringing in a decent revenue stream, it's a great idea.... Even if it didn't bring in much revenue, the draw it would have for fans who might be on the edge of joining 10c might be worth it alone (assuming the sale of access to the feeds were 10c only... could make it available to everyone and do better). Not sure having them available for permanent future viewing is realistic... more like live feed and then the video available for later viewing for a week or a month after the concert date.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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    ozgurkdozgurkd Juneau, Alaska Posts: 434
    if PJ does not go on stage in Alaska soon I think I will be very mad, mad as freddie would get and eat you all!!!!
    Living is no laughing matter: you must live with great seriousness like a squirrel for example - I mean without looking for something beyond and above living, I mean living must be your whole occupation.
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    on2legson2legs Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,456
    Yes Way wrote:
    As Bill Simmons would say, who says no to this?

    Bill Simmons is the man - love his mailbags :lol:
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    Can't wait for the new album in 2013 guys! My only real gripe is that PJ doesn't seem to play any West Coast gigs anymore that aren't music festivals. I'm in Portland, OR but lived in San Francisco for 27 years prior to moving here a few years ago, and I haven't seen them play a single date in either location since playing Outside Lands in 2009. Don't get me wrong, music festivals have some allure on occasion, but seeing your favorite band for over $100 a ticket playing for 51 minutes just plain sucks.

    It's truly frustrating to see all the show announcements recently and over the last few years in South America, Europe, and numerous gigs played in places like Philly and Atlantic City, with NO shows announced in the region where it all began for this awesome band, the Northwest. I mean did the crowds here offend you guys in some way? The last stand alone/non-music festival show played in this region was over four years ago!! Time to bring it back home for the NW fans who've been with you since the beginning, through the thick & thin(battle with Ticketmaster, etc.) and show them/us that the love still exists because quite frankly it's hard to see it any other way when you haven't played a headlining show in this area in 4+ years, but you've been playing seemingly everywhere else. Cheers.
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    PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,610
    Can't wait for the new album in 2013 guys! My only real gripe is that PJ doesn't seem to play any West Coast gigs anymore that aren't music festivals. I'm in Portland, OR but lived in San Francisco for 27 years prior to moving here a few years ago, and I haven't seen them play a single date in either location since playing Outside Lands in 2009. Don't get me wrong, music festivals have some allure on occasion, but seeing your favorite band for over $100 a ticket playing for 51 minutes just plain sucks.

    It's truly frustrating to see all the show announcements recently and over the last few years in South America, Europe, and numerous gigs played in places like Philly and Atlantic City, with NO shows announced in the region where it all began for this awesome band, the Northwest. I mean did the crowds here offend you guys in some way? The last stand alone/non-music festival show played in this region was over four years ago!! Time to bring it back home for the NW fans who've been with you since the beginning, through the thick & thin(battle with Ticketmaster, etc.) and show them/us that the love still exists because quite frankly it's hard to see it any other way when you haven't played a headlining show in this area in 4+ years, but you've been playing seemingly everywhere else. Cheers.
    They did play Vancouver last September... But anyway, yes, some west coast shows in 2013 please!! Everyone is already stoked for it. :D Vancouver, Seattle, the Gorge, Portland... that would be amazing! :thumbup: And maybe a 10C only show in Seattle would be the greatest thing ever? I think so. :)
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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    mfc2006mfc2006 HTOWN Posts: 37,385
    I LOVE MUSIC.
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    some golf shirts or casual dress shirts for work with a small PJ or stickman logo on the breast would be nice.
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    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
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