Whats going wrong with the world? More shootings

redrock

comebackgirl wrote:

I haven't heard any confirmation that he's been diagnosed with schizophrenia. Not everyone who has a break with reality or acts bizarrely is schizophrenic. There can be other explanations for bizarre behavior. I spoke at length about this in another post - it may have been on the other thread. I think we should wait to label him as schizophrenic until that's confirmed.

I think it may be worthwhile repeating a couple of those posts which were very informative for those who wish to read them. Excellent summaries from someone who deals with mental illness professionally that might clarify some 'fuzziness' surrounding this issue.

comebackgirl wrote:

Yeah I'm really interested in hearing more about his current mental status and his mental health history. It seems he was engaged with the university counseling center in some capacity, but it's not clear to what extent. His lawyers are claiming his mailed journal is a privileged communication, but it's not clear if he was engaged in treatment with the psychiatrist or had some other type of interaction with her. University psychiatrists are called in to consult in a variety of situations, which is different from a lot of other treatment settings. I'm interested to hear more about the extent to which he was involved with them. If the reports I'm hearing are accurate and genuine it sounds very much like a dissociative episode of some sort. There were a lot of reports of childlike behavior - the police stating he was using evidence bags as puppets, the prison guards claiming he was complaining his "tummy hurt" from the prison food, asking how the movie ended, expressing confusion as to why he was in jail. The reports that he seemed confused upon his arrest and didn't flee when the police arrived almost sound like a "coming to" of some sort. His demeanor in court (if genuine) seemed more confused and childlike, in comparison to Loughner's crazed expression. There have also been conflicting reports of his intelligence. His science camp mentor called him a "mediocre student" and another neuroscientist called him a "dolt", meanwhile others were saying he's the "top of the top." It seems odd that he would shoot a theatre full of people and rig his apartment, but then tell police about the explosives. There are reports of him being shy and quiet, and then other reports of him posting on sex sites and rating prostitutes. The pictures on the sex sites show him appearing starkly different with the red hair and creepy expression, as opposed to his college photos where he looks pretty straight laced. Someone pointed out (I think earlier on this thread) how different he looked in one photo from the other. Those major inconsistencies often point to a dissociative disorder, which could present alone of in conjunction with psychosis. People with DID are often misdiagnosed because they "hear voices," but it's different than the auditory hallucinations that occur with psychotic disorders, so antipsychotics and typical treatments aren't usually effective. People who have had very early histories of extreme trauma often develop these disorders. Obviously I haven't assessed him and I don't know nearly enough about him or his history to come to any conclusions about him, but I'm really interested to hear more.

comebackgirl wrote:

Below are links to 2 articles on the topic. The second article is peer reviewed, but a little lengthy; this is the conclusion:

"Several general conclusions are supported by this brief overview. First, mental disorders are neither necessary, nor sufficient causes of violence. The major determinants of violence continue to be socio-demographic and socio-economic factors such as being young, male, and of lower socio-economic status.

Second, members of the public undoubtedly exaggerate both the strength of the relationship between major mental disorders and violence, as well as their own personal risk from the severely mentally ill. It is far more likely that people with a serious mental illness will be the victim of violence.

Third, substance abuse appears to be a major determinant of violence and this is true whether it occurs in the context of a concurrent mental illness or not. Those with substance disorders are major contributors to community violence, perhaps accounting for as much as a third of self-reported violent acts, and seven out of every 10 crimes of violence among mentally disordered offenders.

Finally, too much past research has focussed on the person with the mental illness, rather than the nature of the social interchange that led up to the violence. Consequently, we know much less than we should about the nature of these relationships and the contextual determinants of violence, and much less than we should about opportunities for primary prevention (30). Nevertheless, current literature supports early identification and treatment of substance abuse problems, and greater attention to the diagnosis and management of concurrent substance abuse disorders among seriously mentally ill as potential violence prevention strategies (25)."


http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07 ... s-say?lite

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1525086/

mickeyrat

Yep having guns outside of protecting ones home is a great thing......


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/02/ro ... p=obinsite

EmBleve

comebackgirl wrote:

I haven't heard any confirmation that he's been diagnosed with schizophrenia. Not everyone who has a break with reality or acts bizarrely is schizophrenic. There can be other explanations for bizarre behavior. I spoke at length about this in another post - it may have been on the other thread. I think we should wait to label him as schizophrenic until that's confirmed.

Thank you.
And thanks to redrock for reposting your other posts. Maybe they will get through.

mickeyrat

EmBleve wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

I haven't heard any confirmation that he's been diagnosed with schizophrenia. Not everyone who has a break with reality or acts bizarrely is schizophrenic. There can be other explanations for bizarre behavior. I spoke at length about this in another post - it may have been on the other thread. I think we should wait to label him as schizophrenic until that's confirmed.

Thank you.
And thanks to redrock for reposting your other posts. Maybe they will get through.

no, its so much easier to deal in an IF.

EmBleve

mickeyrat wrote:

EmBleve wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

I haven't heard any confirmation that he's been diagnosed with schizophrenia. Not everyone who has a break with reality or acts bizarrely is schizophrenic. There can be other explanations for bizarre behavior. I spoke at length about this in another post - it may have been on the other thread. I think we should wait to label him as schizophrenic until that's confirmed.

Thank you.
And thanks to redrock for reposting your other posts. Maybe they will get through.

no, its so much easier to deal in an IF.

you're right.. what was I thinking?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Been in Spokane coaching the last 4 days. Haven't logged in... but I noticed PJ Soul (I think) witnessed a couple of victims empathizing with the shooter via the media.

As such, I stand corrected and offer a sincere apology to Pandora after calling 'bs' on her claim. Sorry. Just seemed really unbelievable (and still does!). Hope you can accept this.

comebackgirl

Thanks for reposting redrock. Something that I didn't touch on in those posts because there haven't been any reports mentioning this, but psychotic episodes (a lot psychological conditions in fact) are very often induced by substances. We had 2 students this past semester that were hospitalized for psychosis induced by adderral. It's possible drugs of some sort are a contributing factor here.

pandora

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Been in Spokane coaching the last 4 days. Haven't logged in... but I noticed PJ Soul (I think) witnessed a couple of victims empathizing with the shooter via the media.

As such, I stand corrected and offer a sincere apology to Pandora after calling 'bs' on her claim. Sorry. Just seemed really unbelievable (and still does!). Hope you can accept this.

me?
a sincere apology the sign of a strong character, thank you very much!

pandora

comebackgirl wrote:

pandora wrote:

This is the mind of a schizophrenic and yes experts have spoke of this as has eye witnesses
inside the jail. A total break with reality.

And this movie and that character could certainly do that for one predisposed to this illness.

We got sane people dressing up

I haven't heard any confirmation that he's been diagnosed with schizophrenia. Not everyone who has a break with reality or acts bizarrely is schizophrenic. There can be other explanations for bizarre behavior. I spoke at length about this in another post - it may have been on the other thread. I think we should wait to label him as schizophrenic until that's confirmed.

No of course he hasn't been diagnosed... yet.
This is speculation, this is conversation,
and yes of course there can be a number of different causes
for bizarre behavior that term pretty much sums it up ... huh?

The expert with 25 years experience,
calls it "a thought disorder like schizophrenia" in an interview. And no he is not faking.

comebackgirl

pandora wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

pandora wrote:

This is the mind of a schizophrenic and yes experts have spoke of this as has eye witnesses
inside the jail. A total break with reality.

And this movie and that character could certainly do that for one predisposed to this illness.

We got sane people dressing up

I haven't heard any confirmation that he's been diagnosed with schizophrenia. Not everyone who has a break with reality or acts bizarrely is schizophrenic. There can be other explanations for bizarre behavior. I spoke at length about this in another post - it may have been on the other thread. I think we should wait to label him as schizophrenic until that's confirmed.

No of course he hasn't been diagnosed... yet.
This is speculation, this is conversation,
and yes of course there can be a number of different causes
for bizarre behavior that term pretty much sums it up ... huh?

The expert with 25 years experience,
calls it "a thought disorder like schizophrenia" in an interview. And no he is not faking.

Bizarre indeed.

Well we shall see as this progresses. I'm interested to see what the experts who meet with him directly assess. I'm sure he'll be assessed by the most respected in the field.

pandora

comebackgirl wrote:

pandora wrote:

Let me get this straight...
the little old lady victim is now at fault for giving a description
to the cops of 2 men that broke into her house to victimize her?
Good lord.

Call me crazy but these two guys broke in to rob and rough up a little old lady,
just a gut feeling
this is common sense but we'll wait to see if they are schizophrenic
and think they are the joker in a movie.

I'm pointing out that the description included in the media report would not be sufficient for identification purposes and did not need to be included. They were identified as black and their was no mention of the fact that they might be mentally ill. It's an example of media bias.

Maybe they will Pandora. Someone else in Maryland did. It seems to be contagious.

As far as I can tell the media report was an account of her interview, they are one in the same,
I just couldn't find the video I saw on CNN, just a written blog.
So I still go with the media saying this based of her description
not because anyone is being racist.

There is nothing wrong including race in criminal descriptions, every race has got bad guys.
I think a victim is seeing the criminal and the potential for death,
in those split seconds, not the race anyways. A bad guy is a bad guy

pandora

comebackgirl wrote:

pandora wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

I haven't heard any confirmation that he's been diagnosed with schizophrenia. Not everyone who has a break with reality or acts bizarrely is schizophrenic. There can be other explanations for bizarre behavior. I spoke at length about this in another post - it may have been on the other thread. I think we should wait to label him as schizophrenic until that's confirmed.

No of course he hasn't been diagnosed... yet.
This is speculation, this is conversation,
and yes of course there can be a number of different causes
for bizarre behavior that term pretty much sums it up ... huh?

The expert with 25 years experience,
calls it "a thought disorder like schizophrenia" in an interview. And no he is not faking.

Bizarre indeed.

Well we shall see as this progresses. I'm interested to see what the experts who meet with him directly assess. I'm sure he'll be assessed by the most respected in the field.

Yes and two sides of the coin too, the prosecution and the defense.
The public wants blood, we've seen that.

Tell me about the hollow mask test...
I find that truly intriguing.

mikepegg44

satansbed wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

stress relief during target/clay shooting...my main use for firearms. Penis measuring contest with other gun owners.

:fp: :nono: :corn:



I like to get all three in

edit***
I cannot say that I would never use my firearms to kill, because I would if I had to, but that isn't its main purpose for me. contrary to popular belief, most hand guns and rifles will never be used to kill someone.

But isn't that basically just practicing killing something anyway.

I have no problem with hunting rifles etc, but i just don't see the point of people having hand guns or assault rifles

nope it is using a shot gun to shoot clay pigeons. It isn't practice for killing something, unless you consider a clay pigeon alive...I don't use my weapons to kill, but I am able to use them accurately and safely...This is what I am saying...it is your bias that leads you to believe that you are practicing killing something...the act of target shooting in your mind cannot be the end result...It is for me. Would I use my firearms to kill if I had to, yes...just like I would use a toaster, bat, screwdriver, knife, hammer, spoon, any thing else I can get my hands on in the situation if I am ever there...

That is the disconnect. I have said numerous times that all I use my guns for is target shooting. I am not practicing to kill, I am practicing to get better at shooting. Why is that hard to believe?

comebackgirl

pandora wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

pandora wrote:

Let me get this straight...
the little old lady victim is now at fault for giving a description
to the cops of 2 men that broke into her house to victimize her?
Good lord.

Call me crazy but these two guys broke in to rob and rough up a little old lady,
just a gut feeling
this is common sense but we'll wait to see if they are schizophrenic
and think they are the joker in a movie.

I'm pointing out that the description included in the media report would not be sufficient for identification purposes and did not need to be included. They were identified as black and their was no mention of the fact that they might be mentally ill. It's an example of media bias.

Maybe they will Pandora. Someone else in Maryland did. It seems to be contagious.

As far as I can tell the media report was an account of her interview, they are one in the same,
I just couldn't find the video I saw on CNN, just a written blog.
So I still go with the media saying this based of her description
not because anyone is being racist.

There is nothing wrong including race in criminal descriptions, every race has got bad guys.
I think a victim is seeing the criminal and the potential for death,
in those split seconds, not the race anyways. A bad guy is a bad guy

I think it might be more helpful to know their approximate ages, weights, heights, builds, distinguishing characteristics, were they shaved or unshaven, etc. you know, the things that are usually included if a description is being given to actually help identify someone. Describing me as a medium toned white woman would help people distinguish me from just about no one

comebackgirl

pandora wrote:

Yes and two sides of the coin too, the prosecution and the defense.
The public wants blood, we've seen that.

Tell me about the hollow mask test...
I find that truly intriguing.

I'm sure some of the public want blood, while others want justice. You can be empathetic and still want justice for the behavior

Anger after events like this is a normal and healthy reaction. It doesn't equate to being bloodthirsty

redrock

pandora wrote:

Tell me about the hollow mask test...
I find that truly intriguing.

Why? Because two parts of the brain don't seem to communicate very well? Because most of those suffering from schizophrenia will be able to 'see through' this illusion? So can people high on certain drugs, people that have suffered strokes or other brain injuries, or even a small percentage of the population with no brain issues whatsoever.

Why do you keep on mentioning this? Are you trying to make a point?

comebackgirl

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

Tell me about the hollow mask test...
I find that truly intriguing.

Why? Because two parts of the brain don't seem to communicate very well? Because most of those suffering from schizophrenia will be able to 'see through' this illusion? So can people high on certain drugs, people that have suffered strokes or other brain injuries, or even a small percentage of the population with no brain issues whatsoever.

Why do you keep on mentioning this? Are you trying to make a point?

Oh...did she really want info on that?

It just shows there's disconnectivity between different parts of the brain that have to do with perception in schizophrenics, and as redrock mentioned, in others as well

redrock

comebackgirl wrote:

Oh...did she really want info on that?

It just shows there's disconnectivity between different parts of the brain that have to do with perception in schizophrenics, and as redrock mentioned, in others as well

That 'test' was one amongst many that my husband had to do following his stroke to see how the different parts of the brain were communicating (and compensating for each other where damaged had been done). Quite cool.

comebackgirl

redrock wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

Oh...did she really want info on that?

It just shows there's disconnectivity between different parts of the brain that have to do with perception in schizophrenics, and as redrock mentioned, in others as well

That 'test' was one amongst many that my husband had to do following his stroke to see how the different parts of the brain were communicating (and compensating for each other where damaged had been done). Quite cool.

It is cool. The brain fascinates me, especially how people process and store trauma. Suddenly their symptoms start making so much more sense to them

JonnyPistachio

ComeToTX wrote:

They kill a lot more people every day then they save. You would need 8,000 stories like that each year to make up for the gun murders we have.

I agree. A few months back I said in a gun thread that I see about two reports a month in Florida of accidental shootings. People did not believe me until I started linking the stories I saw. And most of these are involving kids and teenagers. The bad FAR outweigh the hero's who use their guns to defend. However, the simple fact that people own guns might keep people from robbing others, i'll admit that, but we'll never know that statistic.

And regarding the Arizona shooter/Giffords account -- There was a man there that was armed. He took his gun out (I believe), but was unable to identify the target because of all the commotion. AND he was concerned that the police would show up and see him with his weapon drawn. Personally, I think more guns in mass shootings is asinine. But people having guns to defend themselves in gas station robberies and whatnot are a hoot.