Whats going wrong with the world? More shootings

pandora

fife wrote:

pandora wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

I agree. A few months back I said in a gun thread that I see about two reports a month in Florida of accidental shootings. People did not believe me until I started linking the stories I saw. And most of these are involving kids and teenagers. The bad FAR outweigh the hero's who use their guns to defend. However, the simple fact that people own guns might keep people from robbing others, i'll admit that, but we'll never know that statistic.

And regarding the Arizona shooter/Giffords account -- There was a man there that was armed. He took his gun out (I believe), but was unable to identify the target because of all the commotion. AND he was concerned that the police would show up and see him with his weapon drawn. Personally, I think more guns in mass shootings is asinine. But people having guns to defend themselves in gas station robberies and whatnot are a hoot.

ONE LIFE SAVED is all that matters! just ask that one life and their loved ones

yeah its a hoot... a dead gas station attendant :wtf: what don't you guys get...
people don't want to die and they are willing to fight back.

again your scenario poor 89 year old Miss Ruby would be a goner but then

you guys don't like guns ... that is the hoot

so if we save 1 person with a gun but kill say 100 people with a gun your ok with that. I know that saying ONE LIFE SAVED sounds nice but it really is insulting.

Not to Miss Ruby and her loved ones... good lord

and it is not we obviously...
it was she who saved her own life which is her right to do!

And it is not she who killed 100 people...
it is not me, nor you, nor any other responsible gun owner!
It is a criminal .... so basic.

Nice and insulting in the same breath, good trick that would be but no I think not...

You are insulting to Miss Ruby by devaluing her life,
insulting to all who love and admire this 89 year old woman
who still breaths because she had great courage and the forethought to be prepared
and defend herself!

PJ_Soul

Wow. I take back what I said about knife murders, and how they aren't involved in mass murders like guns are. Apparently it IS possible. :shock:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-19091840

ComeToTX

We don't even know if the old lady was saved by the gun. Maybe they thought they broke into an empty house and ran when they saw her.

pandora

ComeToTX wrote:

We don't even know if the old lady was saved by the gun. Maybe they thought they broke into an empty house and ran when they saw her.

maybe ... what if ...come on pleeeeeze :fp:

I'm sure those were nice respectful young men come to have some sweet tea....

PJ_Soul

Psychiatrist warned school. I wonder if anyone will ever NOT drop the ball in these cases? I know he dropped out, but surely people could do more, given past events and warnings?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19099956
Edit: just noticed someone else just posted this. )

comebackgirl

ComeToTX wrote:

Aurora, Colo., shooting suspect James Holmes came to the attention of the threat assessment committee at the University of Colorado but no further action was taken because he left the school more than a month before the attack that killed 12 and injured 58, sources told ABC News.

ABC News has learned that Dr. Lynne Fenton, the psychiatrist who was treating Holmes, 24, at the school, was also a key member of the university's threat assessment team. The group of experts were responsible for protecting the school from potentially violent students.

KMGH-TV, ABC News' affiliate in Denver, reported exclusively that, according to sources, by early June, Fenton had informed other members of the team about her concerns regarding Holmes.

But on June 10 -- three days after Holmes bought an assault weapon and added it to his already growing arsenal -- he suddenly told the university that he was dropping out of the neurosciences doctoral program with no explanation.

I'm not surprised he came up on the radar. Given he was in such a small program, if there was some serious decompensation going on it would be really hard to believe that someone within the staff and faculty didn't notice this and refer it to the BIT team. If he didn't make any specific threats at that time, the psychiatrist's hands would have been really tied in terms of what information she could share though. These are the kinds of situations that make it hard to sleep at night.

PJ_Soul

comebackgirl wrote:

ComeToTX wrote:

Aurora, Colo., shooting suspect James Holmes came to the attention of the threat assessment committee at the University of Colorado but no further action was taken because he left the school more than a month before the attack that killed 12 and injured 58, sources told ABC News.

ABC News has learned that Dr. Lynne Fenton, the psychiatrist who was treating Holmes, 24, at the school, was also a key member of the university's threat assessment team. The group of experts were responsible for protecting the school from potentially violent students.

KMGH-TV, ABC News' affiliate in Denver, reported exclusively that, according to sources, by early June, Fenton had informed other members of the team about her concerns regarding Holmes.

But on June 10 -- three days after Holmes bought an assault weapon and added it to his already growing arsenal -- he suddenly told the university that he was dropping out of the neurosciences doctoral program with no explanation.

I'm not surprised he came up on the radar. Given he was in such a small program, if there was some serious decompensation going on it would be really hard to believe that someone within the staff and faculty didn't notice this and refer it to the BIT team. If he didn't make any specific threats at that time, the psychiatrist's hands would have been really tied in terms of what information she could share though. These are the kinds of situations that make it hard to sleep at night.

Yeah, but there was nothing stopping the threat assessment team from contacting police. Doing so would have lead police to questioning him at least, and possibly stopping the whole thing by doing so. I would have thought a university would be more careful given the situation with Virginia Tech and that school in California. I think it is general practice in universities to go by the rule "better safe than sorry". It doesn't seem like that school followed that rule.

comebackgirl

PJ_Soul wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

ComeToTX wrote:

Aurora, Colo., shooting suspect James Holmes came to the attention of the threat assessment committee at the University of Colorado but no further action was taken because he left the school more than a month before the attack that killed 12 and injured 58, sources told ABC News.

ABC News has learned that Dr. Lynne Fenton, the psychiatrist who was treating Holmes, 24, at the school, was also a key member of the university's threat assessment team. The group of experts were responsible for protecting the school from potentially violent students.

KMGH-TV, ABC News' affiliate in Denver, reported exclusively that, according to sources, by early June, Fenton had informed other members of the team about her concerns regarding Holmes.

But on June 10 -- three days after Holmes bought an assault weapon and added it to his already growing arsenal -- he suddenly told the university that he was dropping out of the neurosciences doctoral program with no explanation.

I'm not surprised he came up on the radar. Given he was in such a small program, if there was some serious decompensation going on it would be really hard to believe that someone within the staff and faculty didn't notice this and refer it to the BIT team. If he didn't make any specific threats at that time, the psychiatrist's hands would have been really tied in terms of what information she could share though. These are the kinds of situations that make it hard to sleep at night.

Yeah, but there was nothing stopping the threat assessment team from contacting police. Doing so would have lead police to questioning him at least, and possibly stopping the whole thing by doing so. I would have thought a university would be more careful given the situation with Virginia Tech and that school in California. I think it is general practice in universities to go by the rule "better safe than sorry". It doesn't seem like that school followed that rule.

I'm not sure if this university has their own police force, or just has a security department. We have our own police force, and the chief sits on the BIT team. Our psychiatrist's hands are still somewhat tied by Tarasoff with what can be shared. We can definitely indicate we have a concern about students, and if there is a specific threat we can definitely report that. The BIT teams grew out of the Virginia Tech killings and I think have been really effective in a lot of situations, but a lot of times it is really frustrating. I agree that it's better to err on the side of caution. I'm very interested to know what the psychiatrist actually knew and if it was a general concern or if she knew specifics.

ComeToTX

pandora wrote:

ComeToTX wrote:

We don't even know if the old lady was saved by the gun. Maybe they thought they broke into an empty house and ran when they saw her.

maybe ... what if ...come on pleeeeeze :fp:

I'm sure those were nice respectful young men come to have some sweet tea....

Didn't say that but don't be so positive the gun had anything to do with it. The fact is there's a better chance someone will shoot themselves or someone they know then to save themselves.

Can we get past this one example though? We get it. The old lady is a hero. I could post a hundred stories about people killing their loved ones or kids shooting themselves with dads gun.

PJ_Soul

ComeToTX wrote:

pandora wrote:

ComeToTX wrote:

We don't even know if the old lady was saved by the gun. Maybe they thought they broke into an empty house and ran when they saw her.

maybe ... what if ...come on pleeeeeze :fp:

I'm sure those were nice respectful young men come to have some sweet tea....

Didn't say that but don't be so positive the gun had anything to do with it. The fact is there's a better chance someone will shoot themselves or someone they know then to save themselves.

Can we get past this one example though? We get it. The old lady is a hero. I could post a hundred stories about people killing their loved ones or kids shooting themselves with dads gun.

Or there is the toddler who somehow got his hands on the family firearm a week or two ago, and accidentally shot and killed his dad, who was the owner of the gun of course.

Most gun deaths are accidents. Reason enough to get them out of homes. Yeah, easy to say "oh, I'm responsible - people just have to be responsible." But that doesn't cut it obviously. Example: The other day in (Regina??) an 11 year old came to school with a loaded hand gun and it went off inside a classroom (luckily no one was hurt). The kid's parents did what they assumed was the responsible thing: dad taught the kid about gun safety, unloaded the gun, kept the ammo and the gun separate, locked the gun up... Well, that didn't stop the 11 year old from scouring the home, finding the keys to the gun and the ammo, loading it, and bringing it to school (probably to wow his friends). The parents said they couldn't believe it, never would have suspected this would happen. And then the dad said that although he'd been a gun owner of several different firearms all his life, he would never again keep a firearm in his home (he got rid of 4 of them).

ComeToTX

I have a 4 year old and a 6 month old. I'm not sure how I could have a gun ready to use in case someone broke in that wasn't a lethal danger to my kids.

redrock

ComeToTX wrote:

....how I could have a gun ready to use in case someone broke in that wasn't a lethal danger to my kids.

You hit the nail on the head. As far as I understand it (and it has been mentioned so many times in these gun threads), 'responsible' gun owners will keep (unloaded) gun and ammo separate, both under lock and key. Not sure how one can get 2 keys, go to one secure locker, get gun (and potentially lock up again if more than one gun stored so 'bad guy' can't get to them), then go to other locker, get ammo (and lock up again?), load gun and shoot bad guy who surprised you in your bedroom and has been threatening your partner and children, all this time pointing/waving his gun but just waiting for you to 'do your bit'?

Doesn't add up does it? Or do we then consider those that keep their loaded gun under the pillow 'irresponsible' gun owners?

Cosmo

ComeToTX wrote:

Can we get past this one example though? We get it. The old lady is a hero. I could post a hundred stories about people killing their loved ones or kids shooting themselves with dads gun.

...
I remember a story from a while ago... like back in the 80s a while ago... where a father woke up and shot someone he caught climbing into a window at his home.
Turns out, it was his daughter, who had snuck out to see her boyfriend, returning home after being dropped off. She was struck a couple of times, including one to the head.
One isolated anecdotal example can always be offset by another isolated anecdotal example... which is why anecdotal examples are never strong supports.
...
I'm going to see if the story is archived.

ComeToTX

Cosmo wrote:

ComeToTX wrote:

Can we get past this one example though? We get it. The old lady is a hero. I could post a hundred stories about people killing their loved ones or kids shooting themselves with dads gun.

...
I remember a story from a while ago... like back in the 80s a while ago... where a father woke up and shot someone he caught climbing into a window at his home.
Turns out, it was his daughter, who had snuck out to see her boyfriend, returning home after being dropped off. She was struck a couple of times, including one to the head.
One isolated anecdotal example can always be offset by another isolated anecdotal example... which is why anecdotal examples are never strong supports.
...
I'm going to see if the story is archived.

A cop shot and killed his son in his house last week.

PJ_Soul

ComeToTX wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

ComeToTX wrote:

Can we get past this one example though? We get it. The old lady is a hero. I could post a hundred stories about people killing their loved ones or kids shooting themselves with dads gun.

...
I remember a story from a while ago... like back in the 80s a while ago... where a father woke up and shot someone he caught climbing into a window at his home.
Turns out, it was his daughter, who had snuck out to see her boyfriend, returning home after being dropped off. She was struck a couple of times, including one to the head.
One isolated anecdotal example can always be offset by another isolated anecdotal example... which is why anecdotal examples are never strong supports.
...
I'm going to see if the story is archived.

A cop shot and killed his son in his house last week.

This could go on for pages.

Cosmo

ComeToTX wrote:

A cop shot and killed his son in his house last week.

...
Here is one:
http://www.thecoastalsource.com/news/lo ... x?rss=1669
On July 5, two year old Cheyanne Henry was sleeping in her father's bed. She woke up, found his gun on the night stand, and took it back to bed with her. A single round in the chamber shot her in the chest.

His brother said Joshua has already suffered the greatest punishment of all- losing his daughter.

The family said their thoughts are also with Cheyanne's mother, who is obviously devastated as well. They said they hope a jury will recognize there was no criminal intent to warrant prosecution.
...
Admittedly, this is an isolated anecdotal example... but, it cancels out the old lady example.

josevolution

All i know is i don't need a gun .......

JonnyPistachio

Cosmo wrote:

Admittedly, an isolated anecdotal example... but, it cancels out the old lady example.

There are so many more of these tragic examples than the hero unfortunately.

Cosmo

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

Admittedly, an isolated anecdotal example... but, it cancels out the old lady example.

There are so many more of these tragic examples than the hero unfortunately.

...
Which stands to reason.
I am groggy as shit when I wake up in the morning after a full night's sleep. Sometimes, I can't find the fucking alarm clock on my nightstand to shut the damn thing up.
I cannot imagine being awoken and having the wits and reactions to level a hand gun on target and firing it.
And in a crowd situation.. I admit... I'm no fucking hero. Some crazy fuck strats cracking of rounds into the crowd, I'm scrambling for safety with the rest of the masses. I ain't Superman and I am way too slow to dodge flying bullets.
People will tell me how they would John Wayne hero it out and save the day... but, I know better. Unless they are a cop or trained personel or have already reacted in that manner... I ain't buying it.

comebackgirl

Cosmo wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

Admittedly, an isolated anecdotal example... but, it cancels out the old lady example.

There are so many more of these tragic examples than the hero unfortunately.

...
Which stands to reason.
I am groggy as shit when I wake up in the morning after a full night's sleep. Sometimes, I can't find the fucking alarm clock on my nightstand to shut the damn thing up.
I cannot imagine being awoken and having the wits and reactions to level a hand gun on target and firing it.
And in a crowd situation.. I admit... I'm no fucking hero. Some crazy fuck strats cracking of rounds into the crowd, I'm scrambling for safety with the rest of the masses. I ain't Superman and I am way too slow to dodge flying bullets.
People will tell me how they would John Wayne hero it out and save the day... but, I know better. Unless they are a cop or trained personel or have already reacted in that manner... I ain't buying it.

We're hard wired to run away from danger. Fight, flight or freeze. Most people freeze or flee if there's a weapon involved. It takes a lot of training for people to run towards the danger. Cops and military are trained to change this wiring. Most of the general public is not, no matter how many weapons they own.