For home defense, why not have a shotgun with the first shell being non-lethal? A blast of rock-salt will get most people's attention ... and if that doesn't persuade some one to get the hell out of dodge, then you go to the birdshot.
Was he Cosmo? We don't know. Sure, it would seem he obtained his guns legally, but was he responsible? Was he law-abiding?
This 'law abiding responsible' thing wasn't about what you wrote, Cosmo. Some here justify gun ownership (which ever gun and how many one may want) by talking about these people, differentiating them from the 'bad guys'. I would just like to know what they mean by this and how responsible is 'responsible' - what to they have to do to achieve this 'status'. As far as I'm concerned, those keeping a loaded weapon (locked away or not) are not 'responsible'. Some may think so. Are there 'rules' for responsible gun ownership?
...
I don't know. I mean, did he or did he not obtain his guns and ammo legally? I don't think he had any criminal convictions or if he was ever even arrested. Was he? I don't know.
The same thing goes for the guy in Maine that was en route to shoot up his former workplace... was he a responsible gun owner? I mean, technically, he never shot anyone. If he is freed of all charges, should he get his arsenal back? Maybe he was responsible... except for that 'going over to kill everyone in the office' thing.
This is the thing that freaks me out. It seems like in most (if not all) of the recent mass shootings, the shooters obtained their guns legally, and didn't seem to have records to indicate they wouldn't under current laws. I've come in contact with a lot of people who in my clinical opinion (my views on gun control aside) should not have access to a weapon, and yet most of them have never crossed the line, YET. Most of them don't have any history of criminal charges YET (although some may have minor traffic violations, campus hearing board charges or minor alcohol infractions), and most don't have any significant mental health issues (aside from ADHD, anxiety disorders, etc). Only 2 of them had a significant mental health diagnosis. Yet having had some glimpse into their thinking process, the thought of any of them owning a gun is a really scary thought....and it is also a very real possibility.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
But maybe you are like some here and side with those who are the victimizers,
not with the victim ...
your countless attempts at character assassination of others based on nothing but presumptions is tiresome. you can't even answer the questions, just all this nonsense about "miss ruby".
I am Canadian. But more than that I am human. This discussion is not, and SHOULD NOT BE, restricted to Americans. I care about all human rights and life, not just those of my countrymen. I have friends and relatives in America. I think this discussion should be had by all, not just by those who live within your borders.
As an American I welcome your contributions to this discussion.
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
As mentioned many times already, most illegal guns start off as legal guns. And most a cidental shootings are from legal guns. And apparently 3/4 of mass shootings are committed with legal guns.
Of course all illegal guns start off as legal guns not most. :? :fp: There aren't illegal gun factories worldwide. By taking LEGAL firearms from US citiznes hands solves nothing. Last time I checked there's gun violence in every country. And that 3/4 stat is highly maipulated. HIGHLY MANIPULATED! How does anyone explain the "mass" shootings in countries where there are no firearms? Probably blame it on the US I'm sure?! :fp:
the middle east aside, what mass shootings in other countries? the one and only one in Australia (before laws were changed), the one in Scotland and the recent one in Norway? That's not many.
Yes those...I guess we could also bring up the mass bombings then too.
The old lady story is one example of guns being a protector.. for every story like that you could find 10 that detail gun injuries and deaths from accidents using guns etc.
Really? I'm still waiting for the millions of stories to be published today about each gun that was in responsible hands that didn't do anything? :corn: My neighbor owns a firearm. When does that article come out? Maybe I'll be in the picture?
Damn... such drama again. Impossible to have a reasoned, proper debate here.
Good for Miss Ruby - can we move on now? Miss Ruby was probably never in 'grave' danger. Two unarmed petty thieves KNOCKED three times at her door, waiting before they came in, expecting an empty house. They are the type of burglars that would not enter a home if they heard noise or someone shouted back at them. No way diminishing Ruby Hodge's courage but please... let's not have so much histrionics around this.
Cold hearts, blood on their hands, senseless, insensitive posts (like it's not happening :? ) Please... Can we be done with this melodramatic rhetoric and maybe 'read' (really 'read') what people are saying instead of going off on one tangent over and over again?
Dimi's story - Mr Antonis. He has lived it, seen it. A real story - a hundred of those for each 'Ruby Hodge' story. Here three lives shattered - one 7 year old dead, one 11 brother and one 78 grand-father scarred for life, never being able to forgive themselves (not mentioning the rest of the family). All that because of a loaded weapon left within reach (just like Hodge's loaded gun under her pillow).
Dimi made very good observations in the post with regards to addressing the root of the problem, ie help create a better life for a better future, hope. Help bring people 'up' - not leaving them so disillusioned that one thinks crime/violence is their only way out. What about elaborating on this? How try to improve on the ROOT of the problem (which goes beyond the ease of acquiring firearms).
Wow just wow... your assumption puts a fragile 89 year old woman in no danger wtf!
and what do you sitting safe behind a computer
what qualifies you to judge her moment of danger
when two young strong men entered her house through a broken down door? Tough to dismiss another human beings trauma.
And yes if your bolded statement is not insensitive I don't know what is..
thanks for proving my point like many others here. So ready to let an 89 year old suffer
because she chooses to protect herself!
Do you feel the situations that people are in or just sit there on a high horse of safety
and judge others for protecting themselves.. What a crock!
How can you make that judgement ? Answer that please... how can you make that judgement for her life?
Miss Ruby is a real story a real life that matters. Gun opponents do not want to acknowledge any good that comes from gun ownership...
Like Miss Ruby saving her own life, protecting what she owns, protecting her body and her home.
This lack of common sense is why those in favor will fight to keep guns available
to those who need them because those who don't need them want to take them away.
The old lady story is one example of guns being a protector.. for every story like that you could find 10 that detail gun injuries and deaths from accidents using guns etc.
Really? I'm still waiting for the millions of stories to be published today about each gun that was in responsible hands that didn't do anything? :corn: My neighbor owns a firearm. When does that article come out? Maybe I'll be in the picture?
The old lady story is one example of guns being a protector.. for every story like that you could find 10 that detail gun injuries and deaths from accidents using guns etc.
Really? I'm still waiting for the millions of stories to be published today about each gun that was in responsible hands that didn't do anything? :corn: My neighbor owns a firearm. When does that article come out? Maybe I'll be in the picture?
Exactly! but gun opponents can't hear this ...
Sorry, the people that buy their guns legally and then go on rampages have ruined it for all of you. Tough shit.
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
Really? I'm still waiting for the millions of stories to be published today about each gun that was in responsible hands that didn't do anything? :corn: My neighbor owns a firearm. When does that article come out? Maybe I'll be in the picture?
Exactly! but gun opponents can't hear this ...
Sorry, the people that buy their guns legally and then go on rampages have ruined it for all of you. Tough shit.
I heard a great you tube on the radio out of your state yesterday...
I have not had time to check it out but it is a what to do 'in case of scenario'...
about protecting oneself not necessarily with guns but included are guns. The little I heard was great common sense. What is not is the hysteria of gun opponents
because of one.
I too am ready to move beyond the Miss Ruby story. I'm glad no further harm came to her.
...
I'm getting to the point where I'm gonna go down to the local Wal-Mart to buy a gun and drive over and shoot that old Ruby lady, myself.
I literally laughed out loud at that.
(OBVIOUS DISCLAIMER - I am not advocating the actual taking down of Miss Ruby)
the sentiment behind it is just as bad though...
I could use the example of different outcomes for our elderly
when they had no gun for defense...
real life stories, feel them.
Broken limbs, busted jaws, cigarette burns, rape yes even rape of our elderly women
and of course lets not forget ... death.
The gun opponents feel that is ok, that no one has a right to protect themselves with a gun...
well then we can only say what if that was your grandmother to help them understand...
oh wait their grandmother lives in a good part of town she doesn't need a gun ...
just keep the doors locked. Can they not feel what it would be like to have
their loved one live through or be lost to this horror?
I'm glad I can provide a happy ending real life story for Miss Ruby...
it's even a joy to annoy some with it
those who don't get why she is the perfect example of responsible gun ownership but
there are countless others ... gun opponents don't want to hear that though
and will always give the lame what if's.
They want the stories to go away...
maybe the people too because would be the common sense outcome
if indeed they had no gun. They would be another statistic, another victim.
But google away folks people are fighting back and winning,
stopping crime, protecting themselves, refusing to be a victim.
Again while you are at it google safe and responsible gun ownership,
it is all there, the how to's. And more than you can imagine are doing it. Unfortunately we hear of those who don't not do, another ploy of the gun opponents,
as is the child accidents including up to the age of 24, including those
involved in crime themselves.
The safety classes have waiting lists as more and more are buying guns
and plan on being responsible with them, Good for America!
This should actually be encouraged by gun opponents one would think,
encouraged that people will be trained, responsible and able to counter criminals
who have less training, preparation, knowledge.
Counter criminals who are the parasites living off of other human beings without compassion
or respect for life itself.
An interesting little tidbit. Though only an abstract, it does give some insight:
"Injuries and deaths due to firearms in the home. Kellermann AL, Somes G, Rivara FP, Lee RK, Banton JG.
Source
Center for Injury Control, Rollins School of Public Health, Emory University, Atlanta, GA, USA.
OBJECTIVE:
Determine the relative frequency with which guns in the home are used to injure or kill in self-defense, compared with the number of times these weapons are involved in an unintentional injury, suicide attempt, or criminal assault or homicide.
METHODS:
We reviewed the police, medical examiner, emergency medical service, emergency department, and hospital records of all fatal and nonfatal shootings in three U.S. cities: Memphis, Tennessee; Seattle, Washington; and Galveston, Texas.
RESULTS:
During the study interval (12 months in Memphis, 18 months in Seattle, and Galveston) 626 shootings occurred in or around a residence. This total included 54 unintentional shootings, 118 attempted or completed suicides, and 438 assaults/homicides. Thirteen shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense, including three that involved law enforcement officers acting in the line of duty. For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.
CONCLUSIONS: Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense."
But maybe you are like some here and side with those who are the victimizers,
not with the victim ...
your countless attempts at character assassination of others based on nothing but presumptions is tiresome. you can't even answer the questions, just all this nonsense about "miss ruby".
I am Canadian. But more than that I am human. This discussion is not, and SHOULD NOT BE, restricted to Americans. I care about all human rights and life, not just those of my countrymen. I have friends and relatives in America. I think this discussion should be had by all, not just by those who live within your borders.
I have answered every question asked of me and by golly more ...
anyone who thinks Miss Ruby is a nonsense story then talks about their own friends and family obviously doesn't get it.
Doesn't this dismiss her life and her trauma while making your own important?
Miss Ruby has friends and family too and they are damn glad she is still here. You have admitted if it was up to you she would be a victim instead of a hero.
An interesting little tidbit. Though only an abstract, it does give some insight:
"Injuries and deaths due to firearms in the home. Kellermann AL, Somes G, Rivara FP, Lee RK, Banton JG.
Source
Center for Injury Control, Rollins School of Public Health, Emory University, Atlanta, GA, USA.
OBJECTIVE:
Determine the relative frequency with which guns in the home are used to injure or kill in self-defense, compared with the number of times these weapons are involved in an unintentional injury, suicide attempt, or criminal assault or homicide.
METHODS:
We reviewed the police, medical examiner, emergency medical service, emergency department, and hospital records of all fatal and nonfatal shootings in three U.S. cities: Memphis, Tennessee; Seattle, Washington; and Galveston, Texas.
RESULTS:
During the study interval (12 months in Memphis, 18 months in Seattle, and Galveston) 626 shootings occurred in or around a residence. This total included 54 unintentional shootings, 118 attempted or completed suicides, and 438 assaults/homicides. Thirteen shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense, including three that involved law enforcement officers acting in the line of duty. For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.
CONCLUSIONS: Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense."
Thank you for that. This supports what many of us have been saying for awhile now. I hope some can understand and digest this.
CONCLUSIONS: Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense."
i dont think someone need to be Einstain to understand that...
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
An interesting little tidbit. Though only an abstract, it does give some insight:
"Injuries and deaths due to firearms in the home. Kellermann AL, Somes G, Rivara FP, Lee RK, Banton JG.
Source
Center for Injury Control, Rollins School of Public Health, Emory University, Atlanta, GA, USA.
OBJECTIVE:
Determine the relative frequency with which guns in the home are used to injure or kill in self-defense, compared with the number of times these weapons are involved in an unintentional injury, suicide attempt, or criminal assault or homicide.
METHODS:
We reviewed the police, medical examiner, emergency medical service, emergency department, and hospital records of all fatal and nonfatal shootings in three U.S. cities: Memphis, Tennessee; Seattle, Washington; and Galveston, Texas.
RESULTS:
During the study interval (12 months in Memphis, 18 months in Seattle, and Galveston) 626 shootings occurred in or around a residence. This total included 54 unintentional shootings, 118 attempted or completed suicides, and 438 assaults/homicides. Thirteen shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense, including three that involved law enforcement officers acting in the line of duty. For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.
CONCLUSIONS: Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense."
This could go on for ever but I won't play the game. Each and everyone knows how to google. I may be too bold in assuming all would understand validity of sources though.
Wow just wow... your assumption puts a fragile 89 year old woman in no danger wtf!
and what do you sitting safe behind a computer
what qualifies you to judge her moment of danger
when two young strong men entered her house through a broken down door? Tough to dismiss another human beings trauma.
And yes if your bolded statement is not insensitive I don't know what is..
thanks for proving my point like many others here. So ready to let an 89 year old suffer
because she chooses to protect herself!
Do you feel the situations that people are in or just sit there on a high horse of safety
and judge others for protecting themselves.. What a crock!
How can you make that judgement ? Answer that please... how can you make that judgement for her life?
Miss Ruby is a real story a real life that matters.
Who, who, who here is judging this lady Ruby? Who wishes she'd suffered instead of what happened? And more importantly: How would she suffer from stricter gun laws?
Aren't you also sitting safely behind a computer? How can you judge whether she was cool and poised or panicked and traumatised in her moment of peril?
Gun opponents do not want to acknowledge any good that comes from gun ownership...
Like Miss Ruby saving her own life, protecting what she owns, protecting her body and her home.
Maybe some don't, but I want to and can do so easily. Good for miss Ruby for protecting herself, very well done! But every time we hear a story like this, it seems that the pro-gun movement wants to shout out "See? See what happened there!? More guns for everyone, case closed, point proven!", which is a bit ridiculous.
This lack of common sense is why those in favor will fight to keep guns available
to those who need them because those who don't need them want to take them away.
You're saying that everyone who has a gun needs it? :? And that everyone who doesn't want a gun (and wants stricter controls for them) will never face danger? Sure hope you're right about that one!
I want more gun control and I want it now. I want it here, there, everywhere! To me, that makes perfect (common) sense.
"Don't be faint-hearted, I have a solution! We shall go and commandeer some small craft, then drift at leisure until we happen upon another ideal place for our waterside supper with riparian entertainments."
You're saying that everyone who has a gun needs it? :? And that everyone who doesn't want a gun (and wants stricter controls for them) will never face danger? .
I think what has been said is that those that are for more controls want to TAKE away the guns from those that NEED them.
An interesting little tidbit. Though only an abstract, it does give some insight:
"Injuries and deaths due to firearms in the home. Kellermann AL, Somes G, Rivara FP, Lee RK, Banton JG.
Source
Center for Injury Control, Rollins School of Public Health, Emory University, Atlanta, GA, USA.
OBJECTIVE:
Determine the relative frequency with which guns in the home are used to injure or kill in self-defense, compared with the number of times these weapons are involved in an unintentional injury, suicide attempt, or criminal assault or homicide.
METHODS:
We reviewed the police, medical examiner, emergency medical service, emergency department, and hospital records of all fatal and nonfatal shootings in three U.S. cities: Memphis, Tennessee; Seattle, Washington; and Galveston, Texas.
RESULTS:
During the study interval (12 months in Memphis, 18 months in Seattle, and Galveston) 626 shootings occurred in or around a residence. This total included 54 unintentional shootings, 118 attempted or completed suicides, and 438 assaults/homicides. Thirteen shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense, including three that involved law enforcement officers acting in the line of duty. For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.
CONCLUSIONS: Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense."
Thank you for this redrock and for your other links. This is the kind of research I was interested I seeing.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Thank you for this redrock and for your other links. This is the kind of research I was interested I seeing.
My first link is to the page mentioning a number of articles regarding this '2.5 million' figure, how it is invalid and giving some other stats which help put things in perspective. One can google the articles to see them in full. Interesting analysis (for one who wishes to spend a bit of time googling and reading!).
An interesting little tidbit. Though only an abstract, it does give some insight:
"Injuries and deaths due to firearms in the home. Kellermann AL, Somes G, Rivara FP, Lee RK, Banton JG.
Source
Center for Injury Control, Rollins School of Public Health, Emory University, Atlanta, GA, USA.
OBJECTIVE:
Determine the relative frequency with which guns in the home are used to injure or kill in self-defense, compared with the number of times these weapons are involved in an unintentional injury, suicide attempt, or criminal assault or homicide.
METHODS:
We reviewed the police, medical examiner, emergency medical service, emergency department, and hospital records of all fatal and nonfatal shootings in three U.S. cities: Memphis, Tennessee; Seattle, Washington; and Galveston, Texas.
RESULTS:
During the study interval (12 months in Memphis, 18 months in Seattle, and Galveston) 626 shootings occurred in or around a residence. This total included 54 unintentional shootings, 118 attempted or completed suicides, and 438 assaults/homicides. Thirteen shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense, including three that involved law enforcement officers acting in the line of duty. For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.
CONCLUSIONS: Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense."
Thank you for this redrock and for your other links. This is the kind of research I was interested I seeing.
btw...this 13 of 626 is only 2.07%
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
This could go on for ever but I won't play the game. Each and everyone knows how to google. I may be too bold in assuming all would understand validity of sources though.
Have you researched your group?
Before you claim them to be reliable and independent which assumes no connection to gun opponents.
Yes, small study would be an understatement and yes statistics are twisted to fit agendas
both sides manipulating.
CONCLUSIONS: Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense."
i dont think someone need to be Einstain to understand that...
No one has to be Einstein to understand guns save lives ...
or that we all have the right to protect our own life
It doesn't take being an Einstein to know that by passing more laws on the law abiding
will do nothing to hinder crime nor keep the law abiding safe, quite the contrary...
It doesn't take an Einstein to encourage gun safety not discourage gun ownership.
To be respecting of the rights of others ...
not limiting them because they themselves see no need for a gun in their own lives.
I wonder if it was reversed and it was required everyone must own a gun,
have one in the home for protection, going against the beliefs of some here.
How would those gun opponents feel about the loss of choice?
That someone would tell them they must protect themselves with a firearm
though they do not want to.
This the same for those who need, want and have the right to own a gun.
give me a 51% that guns save people than kill people and i promise ill rethink it
edit..i:in 2 days we have training shooting at work..
we take 3 hours lesson,-training safety guide etc.. just for 2-3 seconds we shoot...
i hope ill see Misss Ruby around
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
An interesting little tidbit. Though only an abstract, it does give some insight:
"Injuries and deaths due to firearms in the home. Kellermann AL, Somes G, Rivara FP, Lee RK, Banton JG.
Source
Center for Injury Control, Rollins School of Public Health, Emory University, Atlanta, GA, USA.
OBJECTIVE:
Determine the relative frequency with which guns in the home are used to injure or kill in self-defense, compared with the number of times these weapons are involved in an unintentional injury, suicide attempt, or criminal assault or homicide.
METHODS:
We reviewed the police, medical examiner, emergency medical service, emergency department, and hospital records of all fatal and nonfatal shootings in three U.S. cities: Memphis, Tennessee; Seattle, Washington; and Galveston, Texas.
RESULTS:
During the study interval (12 months in Memphis, 18 months in Seattle, and Galveston) 626 shootings occurred in or around a residence. This total included 54 unintentional shootings, 118 attempted or completed suicides, and 438 assaults/homicides. Thirteen shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense, including three that involved law enforcement officers acting in the line of duty. For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.
CONCLUSIONS: Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense."
Thank you for this redrock and for your other links. This is the kind of research I was interested I seeing.
btw...this 13 of 626 is only 2.07%
Such a small portion. We always hear about the stories that make the news for one reason or another and then hold thrm as our example, which happens with a lot of things. Small studies can still provide significant findings. What matters is if the results are significant (statistically speaking). I've been wanting to see some studies from peer reviewed sources. This and the link from Harvard have been particularly helpful.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
(OBVIOUS DISCLAIMER - I am not advocating the actual taking down of Miss Ruby)
it's even a joy to annoy some with it
Good lord! I thought the disclaimer would've prevented a tome of a response.
You really think my or Cosmo's comments meant a desired wipeout of the now-infamous-on-the-AMT Miss Ruby?
You're not unintelligent, pandora, but I feel you've strapped stubborn blinders on about this.
So be it.
Of course Cosmo was making a dumb joke at another's expense, something you found funny
I guess. No big deal but what was behind it was.
That's is always an attractive quality though laughing at another's expense.
I wonder what her loved ones would think.
It's a real life story of an old woman in fear...
being victimized who fought back...
I have told her story and focus on her story for a reason...
and I know you are not unintelligent so you know why that is,
why I speak of this woman while some make fun.
Very insensitive some are and some even have the gall to call her story nonsense,
unbelievable the lack of respect.
It is belittling and dismissive to disregard her life and her story.
She is the core to a new movement of taking back our cities
and our lives from crime and she is 89!
Embrace the heros, you will be hearing about more them
one would think another human being would think that was a very good thing.
Stopping the bad guys, refusing to be a victim.
It doesn't take being an Einstein to know that by passing more laws on the law abiding
will do nothing to hinder crime nor keep the law abiding safe, quite the contrary...
There's no way you can predict that.
What about this Holmes person who bought an AR-15. What if he was dead set on going on this killing spree and couldnt get his hands on one? Maybe he settles for the handguns and kills fewer people. I know, you're going to say he'd do anything to get it legally or not. I disagree...but that's the point, none of us can predict. All we can do is look at the facts -- that there are a lot of accidents that outweigh hero situations, and some people are using legally obtained weapons such as AR-15s (that many feel are unnecessary to the public) to commit mass murder.
It doesn't take an Einstein to encourage gun safety not discourage gun ownership.
To be respecting of the rights of others ...
not limiting them because they themselves see no need for a gun in their own lives.
Encourage gun safety? We all know how far that will go.
And again, most here arent for an all out ban -- and most arent so selfish that we want better laws because we dont have a personal need for a gun in our own lives. Thats just silly. I wish you would stop making it like its a personal crusade. We just think things could be better and lives could be saved. I'm sick of seeing kids shot in an accidents all the time.
Such a small portion. We always hear about the stories that make the news for one reason or another and then hold thrm as our example, which happens with a lot of things. Small studies can still provide significant findings. What matters is if the results are significant (statistically speaking). I've been wanting to see some studies from peer reviewed sources. This and the link from Harvard have been particularly helpful.
Elana...is how media works..
but how many stories of self-defence like that with that lady will exist out there..5-10-20----??
there comes one crazy fucker,take some guns so easily no matter how fucknuts he is
noone ask him,who is,what he needs them for,if he is crazy,or what..
and in 2-3 min he shoots 50 people...
i dont need any other exable to understand what guns can do...and to be against them..
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Comments
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
As an American I welcome your contributions to this discussion.
Yes those...I guess we could also bring up the mass bombings then too.
Really? I'm still waiting for the millions of stories to be published today about each gun that was in responsible hands that didn't do anything? :corn: My neighbor owns a firearm. When does that article come out? Maybe I'll be in the picture?
Wow just wow... your assumption puts a fragile 89 year old woman in no danger wtf!
and what do you sitting safe behind a computer
what qualifies you to judge her moment of danger
when two young strong men entered her house through a broken down door?
Tough to dismiss another human beings trauma.
And yes if your bolded statement is not insensitive I don't know what is..
thanks for proving my point like many others here. So ready to let an 89 year old suffer
because she chooses to protect herself!
Do you feel the situations that people are in or just sit there on a high horse of safety
and judge others for protecting themselves.. What a crock!
How can you make that judgement ?
Answer that please... how can you make that judgement for her life?
Miss Ruby is a real story a real life that matters.
Gun opponents do not want to acknowledge any good that comes from gun ownership...
Like Miss Ruby saving her own life, protecting what she owns, protecting her body and her home.
This lack of common sense is why those in favor will fight to keep guns available
to those who need them because those who don't need them want to take them away.
Sorry, the people that buy their guns legally and then go on rampages have ruined it for all of you. Tough shit.
I have not had time to check it out but it is a what to do 'in case of scenario'...
about protecting oneself not necessarily with guns but included are guns.
The little I heard was great common sense. What is not is the hysteria of gun opponents
because of one.
I could use the example of different outcomes for our elderly
when they had no gun for defense...
real life stories, feel them.
Broken limbs, busted jaws, cigarette burns, rape yes even rape of our elderly women
and of course lets not forget ... death.
The gun opponents feel that is ok, that no one has a right to protect themselves with a gun...
well then we can only say what if that was your grandmother to help them understand...
oh wait their grandmother lives in a good part of town she doesn't need a gun ...
just keep the doors locked. Can they not feel what it would be like to have
their loved one live through or be lost to this horror?
I'm glad I can provide a happy ending real life story for Miss Ruby...
it's even a joy to annoy some with it
those who don't get why she is the perfect example of responsible gun ownership but
there are countless others ... gun opponents don't want to hear that though
and will always give the lame what if's.
They want the stories to go away...
maybe the people too because would be the common sense outcome
if indeed they had no gun. They would be another statistic, another victim.
But google away folks people are fighting back and winning,
stopping crime, protecting themselves, refusing to be a victim.
Again while you are at it google safe and responsible gun ownership,
it is all there, the how to's. And more than you can imagine are doing it.
Unfortunately we hear of those who don't not do, another ploy of the gun opponents,
as is the child accidents including up to the age of 24, including those
involved in crime themselves.
The safety classes have waiting lists as more and more are buying guns
and plan on being responsible with them, Good for America!
This should actually be encouraged by gun opponents one would think,
encouraged that people will be trained, responsible and able to counter criminals
who have less training, preparation, knowledge.
Counter criminals who are the parasites living off of other human beings without compassion
or respect for life itself.
"Injuries and deaths due to firearms in the home.
Kellermann AL, Somes G, Rivara FP, Lee RK, Banton JG.
Source
Center for Injury Control, Rollins School of Public Health, Emory University, Atlanta, GA, USA.
OBJECTIVE:
Determine the relative frequency with which guns in the home are used to injure or kill in self-defense, compared with the number of times these weapons are involved in an unintentional injury, suicide attempt, or criminal assault or homicide.
METHODS:
We reviewed the police, medical examiner, emergency medical service, emergency department, and hospital records of all fatal and nonfatal shootings in three U.S. cities: Memphis, Tennessee; Seattle, Washington; and Galveston, Texas.
RESULTS:
During the study interval (12 months in Memphis, 18 months in Seattle, and Galveston) 626 shootings occurred in or around a residence. This total included 54 unintentional shootings, 118 attempted or completed suicides, and 438 assaults/homicides. Thirteen shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense, including three that involved law enforcement officers acting in the line of duty. For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.
CONCLUSIONS:
Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense."
anyone who thinks Miss Ruby is a nonsense story then
talks about their own friends and family obviously doesn't get it.
Doesn't this dismiss her life and her trauma while making your own important?
Miss Ruby has friends and family too and they are damn glad she is still here.
You have admitted if it was up to you she would be a victim instead of a hero.
Thank you for that. This supports what many of us have been saying for awhile now. I hope some can understand and digest this.
i dont think someone need to be Einstain to understand that...
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
some more interesting facts
It's a small study but it is from a independent and reliable source with no ulterior motives.
The 'fact sheet' from the gun owners association... ah yes... the famous 2.5m figure.. Hmmm...
A bit of an explanation of this figure...
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hi ... index.html (to start with - lists various studies about this)
and...
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=ca ... ID7R_KeBLw
Interesting reading.
This could go on for ever but I won't play the game. Each and everyone knows how to google. I may be too bold in assuming all would understand validity of sources though.
This is the stat that is concerning:
54 unintentional shootings
--VS--
13 shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense
These accidents are out of control and tons of innocent children are often victims...people dont care about these?
Who, who, who here is judging this lady Ruby? Who wishes she'd suffered instead of what happened? And more importantly: How would she suffer from stricter gun laws?
Aren't you also sitting safely behind a computer? How can you judge whether she was cool and poised or panicked and traumatised in her moment of peril?
Maybe some don't, but I want to and can do so easily. Good for miss Ruby for protecting herself, very well done! But every time we hear a story like this, it seems that the pro-gun movement wants to shout out "See? See what happened there!? More guns for everyone, case closed, point proven!", which is a bit ridiculous.
You're saying that everyone who has a gun needs it? :? And that everyone who doesn't want a gun (and wants stricter controls for them) will never face danger? Sure hope you're right about that one!
I want more gun control and I want it now. I want it here, there, everywhere! To me, that makes perfect (common) sense.
Dimi's sad tale is a prime example.
Guess some choose not to see this.
Whether Ruby or Dimi's neighbour, these are 'anecdotes' (in the harsh reality of life). There is the bigger picture - one needs to look at that.
Exactly!
I think what has been said is that those that are for more controls want to TAKE away the guns from those that NEED them.
In view of what is happening in this country, it does, doesn't it?
You really think my or Cosmo's comments meant a desired wipeout of the now-infamous-on-the-AMT Miss Ruby?
You're not unintelligent, pandora, but I feel you've strapped stubborn blinders on about this.
So be it.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
My first link is to the page mentioning a number of articles regarding this '2.5 million' figure, how it is invalid and giving some other stats which help put things in perspective. One can google the articles to see them in full. Interesting analysis (for one who wishes to spend a bit of time googling and reading!).
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Before you claim them to be reliable and independent which assumes
no connection to gun opponents.
Yes, small study would be an understatement and yes statistics are twisted to fit agendas
both sides manipulating.
No one has to be Einstein to understand guns save lives ...
or that we all have the right to protect our own life
It doesn't take being an Einstein to know that by passing more laws on the law abiding
will do nothing to hinder crime nor keep the law abiding safe, quite the contrary...
It doesn't take an Einstein to encourage gun safety not discourage gun ownership.
To be respecting of the rights of others ...
not limiting them because they themselves see no need for a gun in their own lives.
I wonder if it was reversed and it was required everyone must own a gun,
have one in the home for protection, going against the beliefs of some here.
How would those gun opponents feel about the loss of choice?
That someone would tell them they must protect themselves with a firearm
though they do not want to.
This the same for those who need, want and have the right to own a gun.
edit..i:in 2 days we have training shooting at work..
we take 3 hours lesson,-training safety guide etc.. just for 2-3 seconds we shoot...
i hope ill see Misss Ruby around
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
I guess. No big deal but what was behind it was.
That's is always an attractive quality though laughing at another's expense.
I wonder what her loved ones would think.
It's a real life story of an old woman in fear...
being victimized who fought back...
I have told her story and focus on her story for a reason...
and I know you are not unintelligent so you know why that is,
why I speak of this woman while some make fun.
Very insensitive some are and some even have the gall to call her story nonsense,
unbelievable the lack of respect.
It is belittling and dismissive to disregard her life and her story.
She is the core to a new movement of taking back our cities
and our lives from crime and she is 89!
Embrace the heros, you will be hearing about more them
one would think another human being would think that was a very good thing.
Stopping the bad guys, refusing to be a victim.
There's no way you can predict that.
What about this Holmes person who bought an AR-15. What if he was dead set on going on this killing spree and couldnt get his hands on one? Maybe he settles for the handguns and kills fewer people. I know, you're going to say he'd do anything to get it legally or not. I disagree...but that's the point, none of us can predict. All we can do is look at the facts -- that there are a lot of accidents that outweigh hero situations, and some people are using legally obtained weapons such as AR-15s (that many feel are unnecessary to the public) to commit mass murder.
Encourage gun safety? We all know how far that will go.
And again, most here arent for an all out ban -- and most arent so selfish that we want better laws because we dont have a personal need for a gun in our own lives. Thats just silly. I wish you would stop making it like its a personal crusade. We just think things could be better and lives could be saved. I'm sick of seeing kids shot in an accidents all the time.
but how many stories of self-defence like that with that lady will exist out there..5-10-20----??
there comes one crazy fucker,take some guns so easily no matter how fucknuts he is
noone ask him,who is,what he needs them for,if he is crazy,or what..
and in 2-3 min he shoots 50 people...
i dont need any other exable to understand what guns can do...and to be against them..
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”