Whats going wrong with the world? More shootings

Cosmo

comebackgirl wrote:

We're hard wired to run away from danger. Fight, flight or freeze. Most people freeze or flee if there's a weapon involved. It takes a lot of training for people to run towards the danger. Cops and military are trained to change this wiring. Most of the general public is not, no matter how many weapons they own.

...
To be honest... I have no idea on how I would react. I don't know and I think no one knows (unless they are trained for the specific situation) how they would actually act. In the case of a gun... I'm running. I know that the smart thing to do is to move away from the sound of gun fire, not towards it.

pandora

ComeToTX wrote:

pandora wrote:

ComeToTX wrote:

We don't even know if the old lady was saved by the gun. Maybe they thought they broke into an empty house and ran when they saw her.

maybe ... what if ...come on pleeeeeze :fp:

I'm sure those were nice respectful young men come to have some sweet tea....

Didn't say that but don't be so positive the gun had anything to do with it. The fact is there's a better chance someone will shoot themselves or someone they know then to save themselves.

Can we get past this one example though? We get it. The old lady is a hero. I could post a hundred stories about people killing their loved ones or kids shooting themselves with dads gun.

Without that gun you know what would have happened to poor Miss Ruby who is 89 years old.
She would have been at the mercy of two hateful men who didn't respect her life.

And no we can't get past it because gun opponents have blatantly disregarded Miss Ruby's life
and her right to fight for it. So much so that they somehow make it her fault
because of her choice to protect herself.
Go back and read the posts, it is ridiculous and it is unforgivable.

Accidents happen with guns ...
Accidents happen with cars ...
Accidents happen with boats, jet skis, on and on...
they happen because someone is not being responsible,
they are not trained or respectful of exactly what a gun, a car, a boat,
a jet ski can and will do.

But because some people are thoughtless
we can not take basic rights away from those who are thoughtful.
Most especially the right to save one's own one life or that of their loved ones.


Miss Ruby got it right and yes she is a hero. There are many, listen to the news.

catefrances

Cosmo wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

We're hard wired to run away from danger. Fight, flight or freeze. Most people freeze or flee if there's a weapon involved. It takes a lot of training for people to run towards the danger. Cops and military are trained to change this wiring. Most of the general public is not, no matter how many weapons they own.

...
To be honest... I have no idea on how I would react. I don't know and I think no one knows (unless they are trained for the specific situation) how they would actually act. In the case of a gun... I'm running. I know that the smart thing to do is to move away from the sound of gun fire, not towards it.

its absolutely the smart thing to do. if you can not control the situation then the best thing to do is retreat from it... this is not weakness.

pandora

Some people are just stronger than others, braver, it is in their make up to take control
of situations, to be prepared, trained. We see these folks, we are thankful when they are there,
with a gun or without.

In the world of sheep these stand out. They will protect their neighbors and even
a stranger when needed, risking their own lives because they know this is the
right thing to do.

Others know they must be able to protect themselves and their loved ones if the
need arises. They are aware of the very personal dangers or circumstances they live in
and are prepared as they see fit.

Then there are some who are unprepared, untrained and weak ...
with a gun or without, they will be a victim when the time comes,
a victim of their own stupidity or of someone else's.

chadwick

pandora wrote:

Some people are just stronger than others, braver, it is in their make up to take control
of situations, to be prepared, trained. We see these folks, we are thankful when they are there,
with a gun or without.

In the world of sheep these stand out. They will protect their neighbors and even
a stranger when needed, risking their own lives because they know this is the
right thing to do.

Others know they must be able to protect themselves and their loved ones if the
needs arises. They are aware of the very personal dangers or circumstances they live in
and are prepared as they see fit.

Then there are some who are unprepared, untrained and weak ...
with a gun or without, they will be a victim when the time comes,
a victim of their own stupidity or of someone else's.

thank you, pandora. that was nice of you to say all that about me

catefrances

:roll:

pandora

catefrances wrote:

:roll:

chadwick

at a house party a friend of mine got a handgun pulled on him. he then removed the pistol from the man's cold ass hands and took it and then beat the man up with his bare hands then pushed him off the roof of the 12 foot high roof/apartment building

wizman did not panic. he beat the bad guy who had a loaded 22 pointing it at my friend.
sometimes not everyone is a scared little victim. sometimes some folks are pretty amazing

i believe the gun is swimming in the mississippi right about now
my dude is on a forklift right now @ his place of employment
the bad guy is probably dead or in prison by guessing his brain power & heart size

catefrances

chadwick wrote:

at a house party a friend of mine got a handgun pulled on him. he then removed the pistol from the man's cold ass hands and took it and then beat the man up with his bare hands then pushed him off the roof of the 12 foot high roof/apartment building

wizman did not panic. he beat the bad guy who had a loaded 22 pointing it at my friend.
sometimes not everyone is a scared little victim. sometimes some folks are pretty amazing

i believe the gun is swimming in the mississippi right about now
my dude is on a forklift right now @ his place of employment
the bad guy is probably dead or in prison by guessing his brain power & heart size

you know chadwick its this kind of post of yours that has me wondering why anyone would mistake you for me... or me for you. it seems like a rookie mistake or a mistake made my someone who isnt in complete control of their facutlies. either way its a ridiculous... and incorrect assumption.

fife

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/30/opinion/f ... ?hpt=op_r1

interesting read.

redrock

It is interesting read fife, and not the first article I have read on this subject.

The concluding paragraph is so astute:

"But most of the time, gun owners are frightening themselves irrationally. They have conjured in their own imaginations a much more terrifying environment than genuinely exists -- and they are living a fantasy about the security their guns will bestow. And to the extent that they are right -- to the extent that the American environment is indeed more dangerous than the Australian or Canadian or German or French environment -- the dangers gun owners face are traceable to the prevalence of the very guns from which they so tragically mistakenly expect to gain safety."

ComeToTX

Pandora,

You're basically saying that since this one woman saved her own life by owning a gun that people should be able to stockpile semi-automatic weapons and 10,000 plus rounds of ammo in a short period of time. That's really a freedom we all need? That's what it takes to protect your home? If this were Syria I might agree.

The boat, car, jet ski argument has already been had multiple times in this thread. To the best of my knowledge the jet ski wasn't invented to kill people and nobody has ever gone on a killing spree with a boat.

ComeToTX

redrock wrote:

It is interesting read fife, and not the first article I have read on this subject.

The concluding paragraph is so astute:

"But most of the time, gun owners are frightening themselves irrationally. They have conjured in their own imaginations a much more terrifying environment than genuinely exists -- and they are living a fantasy about the security their guns will bestow. And to the extent that they are right -- to the extent that the American environment is indeed more dangerous than the Australian or Canadian or German or French environment -- the dangers gun owners face are traceable to the prevalence of the very guns from which they so tragically mistakenly expect to gain safety."

Pretty right on. They are a very paranoid group. They still think obama is trying to take away their guns.

Cosmo

chadwick wrote:

at a house party a friend of mine got a handgun pulled on him. he then removed the pistol from the man's cold ass hands and took it and then beat the man up with his bare hands then pushed him off the roof of the 12 foot high roof/apartment building

wizman did not panic. he beat the bad guy who had a loaded 22 pointing it at my friend.
sometimes not everyone is a scared little victim. sometimes some folks are pretty amazing

i believe the gun is swimming in the mississippi right about now
my dude is on a forklift right now @ his place of employment
the bad guy is probably dead or in prison by guessing his brain power & heart size

...
That is awesome.
The thing is, it's all about the specifics. It would be much tougher to disarm a person who is already pulling the trigger... depending on your proximity to the shooter and whether you are on his blindside or in his field of vision.
Things also change depending on the weapon. A .22 revolver or a 9mm Glock or a knife or a baseball bat. My guess is that a lot of people would go after the guy with a baseball bat and more than a few after a guy with a knife... but, few... like your friend, after a gun threat... and ever fewer, after an active shooter... and zero if the active shooter has several weapons capable of firing multiple rounds from magazines and clips.
But, anyway... good on your friend. Be sure to buy him a beer next time you're out.

comebackgirl

pandora wrote:

Some people are just stronger than others, braver, it is in their make up to take control
of situations, to be prepared, trained. We see these folks, we are thankful when they are there,
with a gun or without.

In the world of sheep these stand out. They will protect their neighbors and even
a stranger when needed, risking their own lives because they know this is the
right thing to do.

Others know they must be able to protect themselves and their loved ones if the
need arises. They are aware of the very personal dangers or circumstances they live in
and are prepared as they see fit.

Then there are some who are unprepared, untrained and weak ...
with a gun or without, they will be a victim when the time comes,
a victim of their own stupidity or of someone else's.

So people who are victimized are weak and stupid? Am I reading this last part correctly? Are we all supposed to be in training for a potential attack from some hypothetical assailant?

Cosmo

comebackgirl wrote:

pandora wrote:

Then there are some who are unprepared, untrained and weak ...
with a gun or without, they will be a victim when the time comes,
a victim of their own stupidity or of someone else's.

So people who are victimized are weak and stupid? Am I reading this last part correctly? Are we all supposed to be in training for a potential attack from some hypothetical assailant?

...
Didn't you know that? We are supposed to be paranoid of our fellow citizens and go through rigorous training programs to stop anyone who is doing bad stuff... at any time.. in any situation... like when a nutcase is firing an AR-15 in a dark, crowded movie house.
I suppose, all of those people in Aurora were weak, untrained cowards because there was not one Hero who rushed towards him and stopped him. I guess, that means they deserved to be victims, when their time came.

comebackgirl

Cosmo wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

pandora wrote:

Then there are some who are unprepared, untrained and weak ...
with a gun or without, they will be a victim when the time comes,
a victim of their own stupidity or of someone else's.

So people who are victimized are weak and stupid? Am I reading this last part correctly? Are we all supposed to be in training for a potential attack from some hypothetical assailant?

...
Didn't you know that? We are supposed to be paranoid of our fellow citizens and go through rigorous training programs to stop anyone who is doing bad stuff... at any time.. in any situation... like an nutcase firing an AR-15 in a dark, crowded movie house.
I suppose, all of those people in Aurora were weak, untrained cowards because there was not one Hero who rushed towards him and stopped him. I guess, that means they deserved to be victims, when their time came.

Damn! And here I've been wasting my life by getting an education, building a career, taking care of my family. Now I realize I should have been in combat training. I sure hope I get to pick out my own superhero costume.

Regardless of which side of the gun control debate you're on, victim blaming really has no place. It's poor form, irrelevant and could not be a truer example of a lack of empathy.

hedonist

Cosmo wrote:

I suppose, all of those people in Aurora were weak, untrained cowards because there was not one Hero who rushed towards him and stopped him. I guess, that means they deserved to be victims, when their time came.

Yep! Including the three gentlemen who died while shielding their girlfriends.

redrock

Cosmo wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

pandora wrote:

Then there are some who are unprepared, untrained and weak ...
with a gun or without, they will be a victim when the time comes,
a victim of their own stupidity or of someone else's.

So people who are victimized are weak and stupid? Am I reading this last part correctly? Are we all supposed to be in training for a potential attack from some hypothetical assailant?

...
Didn't you know that? We are supposed to be paranoid of our fellow citizens and go through rigorous training programs to stop anyone who is doing bad stuff... at any time.. in any situation... like when a nutcase is firing an AR-15 in a dark, crowded movie house.
I suppose, all of those people in Aurora were weak, untrained cowards because there was not one Hero who rushed towards him and stopped him. I guess, that means they deserved to be victims, when their time came.

As you say - sheep, weak, stupid and cowards who 'submit' to the 'bad guys' - no 'fight' in them. Pfftt.. that's what I say. Posted earlier on, but that last paragraph of the article fife posted says all it has to say about people who express such absurdities.

redrock

comebackgirl wrote:

Regardless of which side of the gun control debate you're on, victim blaming really has no place. It's poor form, irrelevant and could not be a truer example of a lack of empathy.

Sad state of affairs, blaming the victim.

Being able to shoot, being 'trained', etc. is absolutely no guarantee of being able to defend one's self or protect another or take action in 'emergencies'. It has been proven many times over and mentioned in these threads more times than I wish to remember (this also goes for those taking self defense classes such as martial arts, etc.). It is rare that those with 'casual' training (ie the responsible, law abiding citizen with a gun who had a shot or two at a fixed target at the range) will be able to 'pull himself/herself' together and act as they thought they would (ie shoot the bastard that's trying to rob them, or whatever..). Even for highly tuned soldiers (for example), it's not easy.

Too bad catwoman is already taken comebackgirl....