Okay, being real then - you were dismissing HFD's statements because he's Canadian. I was examining why there is no reason to do so.
It's just ironic that you're making a point about assumptions, since that is your specialty - i'll leave it at that. .
I understand the concept of supporting rights of others even if they don't affect me very well. I just don't think that's a good argument when it comes to guns, and simply find it surprising that people are so in support of mass gun ownership. It's that some people view easy gun ownership as a right at all is what seems strange to me.
I think I just pointed out your assumption about Americans in my last post
who's on first....
No you don't understand the concept at all... has nothing to do with affect or lack thereof.
It is a perfect argument, we have the right, it's not strange, and the masses feel the need
and want the guns. And they want to own them safely and responsibly...
google if you need a definition there...Gun safety training.
What seems more than strange to me is that anyone would think allowing only the bad guys
to own guns, and they do and they will, would ever be ok with the good guys.
You can't ensure that anyone will be a responsible gun owner at all, so the 'as long as they're responsible' argument does not really fly with me. Plus, being a "responsible" gun owner literally negates the spontaneous self-defense argument you've been making, since the "responsible" tactics that prevent accidental shootings necessarily make sudden defense of the home impossible, since the guns are locked up and unloaded.
And there is carrying concealed fire arms, which most gunovers want - for me, people walking around with legally concealed weapons is a terrifying concept, especially if they all think they can draw arms when they perceive a threat and start shootin'. I do not have thatuch faith in Joe Shmoe!! Thpere are too many Dirty Harry wanabees around (hello Mr. Zimmerman).
Side note: it's kind of interesting how people in the US so often say they couldn't care less about what's going on outside of their own country. This is very much the opposite of how Canadians think - we care quite a bit about what's happening around the world to people, what the social and political implications are within other countries, the histories of other nations, etc. It's quite useful because we are able to look at others and learn from it all and broaden our perspectives on important issues and concepts. It also makes us feel more connected to others in the world we share. Americans seem to be the opposite of that (not all, but a lot). I think it would serve America well if they developed the same global attitude, because there is a lot of valuable lessons to be learned from the rest of the world, especially this day and age as we are more and more a global society. It's just curious how Americans don't see it that way.
really? it is terrifying to you to have a good caring trained respectful person carrying a gun ...
what about the bad guys ...is that not terrifying?
I was speaking to your laws...
don't care what laws Canadians choose to have but if you ban guns you ban
safety training and that could effect some people all the way around.
Better build some more prisons ...
for the law abiding folk who decide they still want to own too.
I think Americans pay attention to foreign matters
it would be a derogatory generalization to say otherwise...
hey I love the Canadian's Olympic female bathing suits, much prettier than the US....
see I pay attention
Oh, yes, first I want to say that of course my statements about Americans not paying much attention to or caring about what's going on elsewhere is a generalization (hence the "not all but a lot" disclaimer). It is a fairly well-known American quality though - at least that's how non-americans see it. I don't mean to be derogatory; just saying what I perceive to be the truth. I think some Americans would agree that what I said is true for a good number of folks in the US. I don't think the concept of the US being rather US-centric is a new one for most. Just because I say something about America that isn't a compliment doesn't mean I'm being derogatory toward Americans. All nationalities have their strengths and weaknesses, and I hope we can mention them in the course of discussion without being accused of something untoward.
All this gun safety trai king you speak of... is there a requirement to take gun safety lessons to own guns in the US?? I don't think so. If so, i've somehow never heard or read that anywhere. You seem to have an awful lot of faith in everyone who carries a weapon to be responsible and clear-headed citizens. I would say they are the exception, not the rule. I don't have a problem with well-trained, caring people who cangenerally be trusted to responsibly carry and use a gun. They're called police officers. I have zero faith in the general public being equally well-trained and responsible, let alone well-intentioned. There are just way too many idiots walking around, and no one is even checking safety training papers in gun stores, let alone whether or not the person is a moron, or, worse, crazy or evil. I don't get why you are acting like everyone with a legally concealed weapon is going to be a good guy or responsible??
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
At least seven people were killed (including a shooter) at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin on Sunday. That’s 57 mass murders in 30 years.
What are the odds that the gunman was a 'responsible, law abiding' citizen that obtained his gun(s) legally?
OK.. I may be jumping the gun here (pardon the pun) but looking back at other shootings, it's not a silly thing to assume....
Or, I guess, one can say that if these peaceful sikhs in their temple were packing, they would have saved themselves and their loved ones in a shoot-out (with, of course, only the shooter killed).
I think what many are saying is that guns are making a bad situation even worse, and that gun control could definitely help to ease the problem and actually prevent some deaths (including all those thousands of accidental gun deaths), not end violence in America.
The root of the violence needs to be seriously addressed too. But it would seem that it's also a point that some would sort of shrug their shoulders at - it's engrained in 'our' culture - nothing much we can do about it (except arm ourselves more). One may think one can fight fire with fire and, whilst in the case of wildfires, burning a stretch of land purposely so 'new' fire can't catch on may seem to be a possible solution, the truth is that if there is the slightest little bit of grass (or whatever) left, the 'attacking' fire will continue. Same with violence.
It's not engrained in our culture ....
it is the devaluing of life.
When two young men can go to the home of an 89 year old woman with the intent
to do harm and worse...
go without conscious, without compassion, have a plan and carry it out,
and this is commonplace not rare we have a generation feeding on the lives of others.
We have a culture that is allowing criminals power to do this.
Gun laws help the criminals, they do not help the law abiding citizens.
Miss Ruby fought back, like many are and this is the fire!
She had a plan too, a plan not to be a victim.
It's perhaps too easy to forget how many times this has happened. The horrific mass murder at a midnight screening of The Dark Knight Rises in Colorado on July 20 is the latest in an epidemic of such gun violence over the last three decades. Since 1982, there have been at least 56 mass murders* carried out with firearms across the country, with the killings unfolding in 30 states from Massachusetts to Hawaii. We've mapped them below, including details on the shooters' identities, the types of weapons they used, and the number of victims they injured and killed.
Of the 132 guns possessed by the killers, more than three quarters were obtained legally. The arsenal included dozens of assault weapons and high-powered handguns. (See charts below.) Just as Jeffrey Weise used a .40-caliber Glock to massacre students in Red Lake, Minnesota, in 2005, so too did James Holmes when blasting away at his victims in a darkened movie theater.
Half of the cases involved school or workplace shootings (11 and 17, respectively); the other 28 cases took place in locations including shopping malls, restaurants, government buildings, and military bases. Only one of the killers was a woman. (See Goleta, Calif., in 2006.) Explore the map for further details—we do not consider the map to be all-inclusive, but based on the criteria we used to identify mass murders, we believe that we've produced one of the most comprehensive rundowns available on this particular type of traumatic violence. (Mass murders represent only a sliver of America's overall gun violence.) For a timeline listing all the cases on the map, including photos of the killers, jump to page 2.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Oh, yes, first I want to say that of course my statements about Americans not paying much attention to or caring about what's going on elsewhere is a generalization (hence the "not all but a lot" disclaimer). It is a fairly well-known American quality though - at least that's how non-americans see it. I don't mean to be derogatory; just saying what I perceive to be the truth. I think some Americans would agree that what I said is true for a good number of folks in the US. I don't think the concept of the US being rather US-centric is a new one for most.
All this gun safety trai king you speak of... is there a requirement to take gun safety lessons to own guns in the US?? I don't think so. You seem to have an awful lot of faith in everyone who carries a weapon to be responsible and clear-headed citizens. I would say they are the exception, not the rule. I don't have a problem with well-trained, caring people who cangenerally be trusted to responsibly carry and use a gun. They're called police officers. I have zero faith in the general public being equally well-trained and responsible, let alone well-intentioned. There are just way too many idiots walking around, and no one is even checking safety training papers in gun stores, let alone whether or not the person is a moron, or, worse, crazy or evil. I don't get why you are acting like everyone with a legally concealed weapon is going to be a good guy or responsible??
No, you are right. Many have no idea what is going on AND many simply don't care. To be honest, the news is pretty crappy about telling us what is happening in the world... I recommend alternative news sources and making a Twitter account. I get first hand accounts of what's happening in many parts of the world. I hear people calling the Syrian rebels terrorists... I follow people that say otherwise... I follow people that are pro-Assad... I hear about mortars being used on innocent people, school busses shot up by government soldiers... Pro-Israel, Anti-Israel... I hear from Socialists, Statists, Liberals, Conservatives, Libertarians, Democrats, Republicans, Anarchists... I get to hear all of that information... I seriously recommend making a twitter and following as many people as you can, no, not Lebron James and Tom Cruise...
I have a lot of faith in people to make the right decision. I guess I just don't like to live in fear... That goes with drugs, firearms, their money, etc. So, saying that a person is deemed sane, I have no problems with them owning firearms... Mandatory training? Not a bad idea, but, I certainly don't want to pay for it.
Of the 132 guns possessed by the killers, more than three quarters were obtained legally. The arsenal included dozens of assault weapons and high-powered handguns. (See charts below.) Just as Jeffrey Weise used a .40-caliber Glock to massacre students in Red Lake, Minnesota, in 2005, so too did James Holmes when blasting away at his victims in a darkened movie theater.
Worth a highlight and a repeat. Obtained legally (which would have to be by 'responsible and law abiding citizens).
so,for the moment guns are from protection,why need the police?
why pay taxis for have police??buy 50 guns and ammo and u protect your self better..
why to have airforce?
want to protect the country??
why not have an F-16c at your back yard?and a tanks and a navy carrier!!
why we dont have an ER table at hour houses and give treatment?do surgeries alone...
and firemen??they suck..
buy an ax and a ladder from your local shop..
and u can be a super hero...
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Even the guns that criminals have illegally... pretty much all of those started off as legally purchased weapons. Every gun that is bought legally is at risk of being stolen or illegally sold off when the legal owner needs money and landing in the hands of criminals.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
so,for the moment guns are from protection,why need the police?
why pay taxis for have police??buy 50 guns and ammo and u protect your self better..
why to have airforce?
want to protect the country??
why not have an F-16c at your back yard?and a tanks and a navy carrier!!
why we dont have an ER table at hour houses and give treatment?do surgeries alone...
and firemen??they suck..
buy an ax and a ladder from your local shop..
and u can be a super hero...
You have a great way of putting things Dimi.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Even the guns that criminals have illegally... pretty much all of those started off as legally purchased weapons. Every gun that is bought legally is at risk of being stolen or illegally sold off when the legal owner needs money and landing in the hands of criminals.
Some people are just stronger than others, braver, it is in their make up to take control
of situations, to be prepared, trained. We see these folks, we are thankful when they are there,
with a gun or without.
In the world of sheep these stand out. They will protect their neighbors and even
a stranger when needed, risking their own lives because they know this is the
right thing to do.
Others know they must be able to protect themselves and their loved ones if the
need arises. They are aware of the very personal dangers or circumstances they live in
and are prepared as they see fit.
Then there are some who are unprepared, untrained and weak ... with a gun or without, they will be a victim when the time comes,
a victim of their own stupidity or of someone else's.
So people who are victimized are weak and stupid? Am I reading this last part correctly? Are we all supposed to be in training for a potential attack from some hypothetical assailant?
I think that should answer your question...
It doesn't answer my question. I wasn't referencing any of your statements about guns here. I was referring to the statement that people who are unprepared and trained and weak would be a victim of their own stupidity or someone else's. Those lines transitioned this beyond a debate on gun control
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
I was pleased to hear, locally, gun sales rose drastically after the Colorado shooting but so did the safety training courses which shows of course who is now arming themselves.
Most legal gun owners want to be trained and trained well to protect themselves and others.
The police are often not there when you need them ... google police response times
different of course for different areas ...
NYC 8 minutes....
a lot can happen in 8 minutes.
I was pleased to hear, locally, gun sales rose drastically after the Colorado shooting but so did the safety training courses which shows of course who is now arming themselves.
Most legal gun owners want to be trained and trained well to protect themselves and others.
The police are often not there when you need them ... google police response times
different of course for different areas ...
NYC 8 minutes....
a lot can happen in 8 minutes.
Forcible rapes showed the steepest increase of any major crime, from 860 to 1,138 :wtf:
I lived in australia for most of my life and your logic is kinda scary.. when in all other western countries if one mass murder occurs automatic weapons and gun laws tighen up... here it's like the more killings the more guns are bought hence the more chance of more shootings.. it doesn't make any sense!
I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
So people who are victimized are weak and stupid? Am I reading this last part correctly? Are we all supposed to be in training for a potential attack from some hypothetical assailant?
I think that should answer your question...
It doesn't answer my question. I wasn't referencing any of your statements about guns here. I was referring to the statement that people who are unprepared and trained and weak would be a victim of their own stupidity or someone else's. Those lines transitioned this beyond a debate on gun control
Is that what you think?
I think being unprepared to protect oneself,
untrained in whatever protective measures one chooses,
and not having the forethought to be strong in a life and death situation
could make someone a victim
and after the fact they will very likely be kicking themselves for not handling it differently
if in fact they are still alive to regret their apathy.
I also included those with guns, illegal or legal who use a gun to protect or assault,
under the same criteria.
You think an assailant is hypothetical?
You think being prepared is in training?
I was taught from young on these simple principles of self preservation.
And no I do not think all victims are stupid or weak...
but I think you might have known that yes?
I do think we need to stop being victims and fight fire with fire.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I was pleased to hear, locally, gun sales rose drastically after the Colorado shooting but so did the safety training courses which shows of course who is now arming themselves.
Most legal gun owners want to be trained and trained well to protect themselves and others.
The police are often not there when you need them ... google police response times
different of course for different areas ...
NYC 8 minutes....
a lot can happen in 8 minutes.
Forcible rapes showed the steepest increase of any major crime, from 860 to 1,138 :wtf:
I lived in australia for most of my life and your logic is kinda scary.. when in all other western countries if one mass murder occurs automatic weapons and gun laws tighen up... here it's like the more killings the more guns are bought hence the more chance of more shootings.. it doesn't make any sense!
Mass murders will happen no matter how many gun laws are in place,
even the Colorado shooter...
he would have found a different method or the guns illegally.
Gun laws only help the criminals, do nothing to stop crime, just the contrary.
Now mental illness awareness will stop the mass shooting because in most all cases
someone knew or suspected the shooter was capable of this action against humanity
and did nothing to stop it.
It doesn't answer my question. I wasn't referencing any of your statements about guns here. I was referring to the statement that people who are unprepared and trained and weak would be a victim of their own stupidity or someone else's. Those lines transitioned this beyond a debate on gun control
Is that what you think?
I think being unprepared to protect oneself,
untrained in whatever protective measures one chooses,
and not having the forethought to be strong in a life and death situation
could make someone a victim
and after the fact they will very likely be kicking themselves for not handling it differently
if in fact they are still alive to regret their apathy.
I also included those with guns, illegal or legal who use a gun to protect or assault,
under the same criteria.
You think an assailant is hypothetical?
You think being prepared is in training?
I was taught from young on these simple principles of self preservation.
And no I do not think all victims are stupid or weak...
but I think you might have known that yes?
I do think we need to stop being victims and fight fire with fire.
You said you don't own a gun Pandora. So I guess you're unprepared and weak too, just sitting back and willingly making yourself a victim. For someone who claims she chooses not to own a gun, your statements are kind of strange.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I think being unprepared to protect oneself,
untrained in whatever protective measures one chooses,
and not having the forethought to be strong in a life and death situation
could make someone a victim
and after the fact they will very likely be kicking themselves for not handling it differently
if in fact they are still alive to regret their apathy.
I also included those with guns, illegal or legal who use a gun to protect or assault,
under the same criteria.
You think an assailant is hypothetical?
You think being prepared is in training?
I was taught from young on these simple principles of self preservation.
And no I do not think all victims are stupid or weak...
but I think you might have known that yes?
I do think we need to stop being victims and fight fire with fire.
Yes, that's what I think. Your statements crossed the line from a gun control discussion to unnecessary victim blaming. That's why I said it. As I stated in subsequent posts, there is no room for victim blaming in this discussion. While I do not agree with your position on gun control, I respect that it is your position. However your statements about victim blaming are a true example of a lack of empathy and I was surprised to see them posted.
Anyone can be a victim. It has nothing to do with preparedness, strength, intelligence or knowledge. Yes, there are steps that we can all take to make ourselves safer. I know that you believe one of those steps may be to possess a gun. While I don't agree, I think that there are steps we all take to make it less likely we'll be victimized (ie. locking our door at night, etc). Whether or not someone takes these steps reflects little on their character. The perpetrator, the person who chooses to violate another and to victimize them, should be the person bearing the responsibility for the crime.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
I was pleased to hear, locally, gun sales rose drastically after the Colorado shooting but so did the safety training courses which shows of course who is now arming themselves.
Most legal gun owners want to be trained and trained well to protect themselves and others.
The police are often not there when you need them ... google police response times
different of course for different areas ...
NYC 8 minutes....
a lot can happen in 8 minutes.
Forcible rapes showed the steepest increase of any major crime, from 860 to 1,138 :wtf:
I lived in australia for most of my life and your logic is kinda scary.. when in all other western countries if one mass murder occurs automatic weapons and gun laws tighen up... here it's like the more killings the more guns are bought hence the more chance of more shootings.. it doesn't make any sense!
Mass murders will happen no matter how many gun laws are in place,
even the Colorado shooter...
he would have found a different method or the guns illegally.
Gun laws only help the criminals, do nothing to stop crime, just the contrary.
Now mental illness awareness will stop the mass shooting because in most all cases
someone knew or suspected the shooter was capable of this action against humanity
and did nothing to stop it.
agreed mental health awareness would be a good move also.. but it's not going to stop all mass shootings... strict gun laws in australia helped the rate of gun related murders by a LOT!
In most cases if a person who is mentally ill or just plain has a personality disorder they will find a way to do the mass shooting if gun are so easy to obtain.. over the internet purchasing should be banned &^%$$ing ridiculous.
I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
Forcible rapes showed the steepest increase of any major crime, from 860 to 1,138 :wtf:
I lived in australia for most of my life and your logic is kinda scary.. when in all other western countries if one mass murder occurs automatic weapons and gun laws tighen up... here it's like the more killings the more guns are bought hence the more chance of more shootings.. it doesn't make any sense!
The rapes don't make sense to me...
If only half of those women were trained in personal gun use
we could say bye to 550 a** holes ... those without compassion, empathy,
value and respect for another human being
worst part is ... are they out there raping more?
And there are those who would say a woman should not be allowed to protect
herself with a gun :fp: nope just lay down and take it....
Forcible rapes showed the steepest increase of any major crime, from 860 to 1,138 :wtf:
I lived in australia for most of my life and your logic is kinda scary.. when in all other western countries if one mass murder occurs automatic weapons and gun laws tighen up... here it's like the more killings the more guns are bought hence the more chance of more shootings.. it doesn't make any sense!
The rapes don't make sense to me...
If only half of those women were trained in personal gun use
we could say bye to 550 a** holes ... those without compassion, empathy,
value and respect for another human being
worst part is ... are they out there raping more?
And there are those who would say a woman should not be allowed to protect
herself with a gun :fp: nope just lay down and take it....
no one says women should just take it... I don't think men or women should have guns.. sure self defense classes but rape is a little off topic here as it's entirely another crime all together.
I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
Forcible rapes showed the steepest increase of any major crime, from 860 to 1,138 :wtf:
I lived in australia for most of my life and your logic is kinda scary.. when in all other western countries if one mass murder occurs automatic weapons and gun laws tighen up... here it's like the more killings the more guns are bought hence the more chance of more shootings.. it doesn't make any sense!
The rapes don't make sense to me...
If only half of those women were trained in personal gun use
we could say bye to 550 a** holes ... those without compassion, empathy,
value and respect for another human being
worst part is ... are they out there raping more?
And there are those who would say a woman should not be allowed to protect
herself with a gun :fp: nope just lay down and take it....
considering that about 85% of sexual assaults are perpetrated by someone known to the victim, I'm not sure guns would be effective in stopping the assaults. Typically when a victim knows the perpetrator they are going to be less likely to use a weapon to stop the assault because they're going to be taken more by surprise and initially think that the assailant will respect their protests. They're also unlikely to shoot someone they know or care about in some way. About 90% of those assaults involve alcohol, so the victims may be unable to protect themselves, with or without a gun. We know that self-defense classes aren't very effective in these types of situations, so I doubt guns will be. The focus really needs to be on primary prevention programs and bystander intervention.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Comments
who's on first....
No you don't understand the concept at all... has nothing to do with affect or lack thereof.
It is a perfect argument, we have the right, it's not strange, and the masses feel the need
and want the guns. And they want to own them safely and responsibly...
google if you need a definition there...Gun safety training.
What seems more than strange to me is that anyone would think allowing only the bad guys
to own guns, and they do and they will, would ever be ok with the good guys.
All this gun safety trai king you speak of... is there a requirement to take gun safety lessons to own guns in the US?? I don't think so. If so, i've somehow never heard or read that anywhere. You seem to have an awful lot of faith in everyone who carries a weapon to be responsible and clear-headed citizens. I would say they are the exception, not the rule. I don't have a problem with well-trained, caring people who cangenerally be trusted to responsibly carry and use a gun. They're called police officers. I have zero faith in the general public being equally well-trained and responsible, let alone well-intentioned. There are just way too many idiots walking around, and no one is even checking safety training papers in gun stores, let alone whether or not the person is a moron, or, worse, crazy or evil. I don't get why you are acting like everyone with a legally concealed weapon is going to be a good guy or responsible??
OK.. I may be jumping the gun here (pardon the pun) but looking back at other shootings, it's not a silly thing to assume....
Or, I guess, one can say that if these peaceful sikhs in their temple were packing, they would have saved themselves and their loved ones in a shoot-out (with, of course, only the shooter killed).
it is the devaluing of life.
When two young men can go to the home of an 89 year old woman with the intent
to do harm and worse...
go without conscious, without compassion, have a plan and carry it out,
and this is commonplace not rare we have a generation feeding on the lives of others.
We have a culture that is allowing criminals power to do this.
Gun laws help the criminals, they do not help the law abiding citizens.
Miss Ruby fought back, like many are and this is the fire!
She had a plan too, a plan not to be a victim.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... map?page=1
from the article .....
Editor's note, 8/5/12: On Sunday morning a mass shooting at a Sikh temple near Milwaukee left at least six people dead.
It's perhaps too easy to forget how many times this has happened. The horrific mass murder at a midnight screening of The Dark Knight Rises in Colorado on July 20 is the latest in an epidemic of such gun violence over the last three decades. Since 1982, there have been at least 56 mass murders* carried out with firearms across the country, with the killings unfolding in 30 states from Massachusetts to Hawaii. We've mapped them below, including details on the shooters' identities, the types of weapons they used, and the number of victims they injured and killed.
Of the 132 guns possessed by the killers, more than three quarters were obtained legally. The arsenal included dozens of assault weapons and high-powered handguns. (See charts below.) Just as Jeffrey Weise used a .40-caliber Glock to massacre students in Red Lake, Minnesota, in 2005, so too did James Holmes when blasting away at his victims in a darkened movie theater.
Half of the cases involved school or workplace shootings (11 and 17, respectively); the other 28 cases took place in locations including shopping malls, restaurants, government buildings, and military bases. Only one of the killers was a woman. (See Goleta, Calif., in 2006.) Explore the map for further details—we do not consider the map to be all-inclusive, but based on the criteria we used to identify mass murders, we believe that we've produced one of the most comprehensive rundowns available on this particular type of traumatic violence. (Mass murders represent only a sliver of America's overall gun violence.) For a timeline listing all the cases on the map, including photos of the killers, jump to page 2.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
No, you are right. Many have no idea what is going on AND many simply don't care. To be honest, the news is pretty crappy about telling us what is happening in the world... I recommend alternative news sources and making a Twitter account. I get first hand accounts of what's happening in many parts of the world. I hear people calling the Syrian rebels terrorists... I follow people that say otherwise... I follow people that are pro-Assad... I hear about mortars being used on innocent people, school busses shot up by government soldiers... Pro-Israel, Anti-Israel... I hear from Socialists, Statists, Liberals, Conservatives, Libertarians, Democrats, Republicans, Anarchists... I get to hear all of that information... I seriously recommend making a twitter and following as many people as you can, no, not Lebron James and Tom Cruise...
I have a lot of faith in people to make the right decision. I guess I just don't like to live in fear... That goes with drugs, firearms, their money, etc. So, saying that a person is deemed sane, I have no problems with them owning firearms... Mandatory training? Not a bad idea, but, I certainly don't want to pay for it.
why pay taxis for have police??buy 50 guns and ammo and u protect your self better..
why to have airforce?
want to protect the country??
why not have an F-16c at your back yard?and a tanks and a navy carrier!!
why we dont have an ER table at hour houses and give treatment?do surgeries alone...
and firemen??they suck..
buy an ax and a ladder from your local shop..
and u can be a super hero...
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Or they were stolen
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Most legal gun owners want to be trained and trained well to protect themselves and others.
The police are often not there when you need them ... google police response times
different of course for different areas ...
NYC 8 minutes....
a lot can happen in 8 minutes.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/crim ... 42QyL3AstJ
Forcible rapes showed the steepest increase of any major crime, from 860 to 1,138 :wtf:
I lived in australia for most of my life and your logic is kinda scary.. when in all other western countries if one mass murder occurs automatic weapons and gun laws tighen up... here it's like the more killings the more guns are bought hence the more chance of more shootings.. it doesn't make any sense!
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
Well, if you lived in the US and 'understood', it would make perfect sense...
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Is that what you think?
I think being unprepared to protect oneself,
untrained in whatever protective measures one chooses,
and not having the forethought to be strong in a life and death situation
could make someone a victim
and after the fact they will very likely be kicking themselves for not handling it differently
if in fact they are still alive to regret their apathy.
I also included those with guns, illegal or legal who use a gun to protect or assault,
under the same criteria.
You think an assailant is hypothetical?
You think being prepared is in training?
I was taught from young on these simple principles of self preservation.
And no I do not think all victims are stupid or weak...
but I think you might have known that yes?
I do think we need to stop being victims and fight fire with fire.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
even the Colorado shooter...
he would have found a different method or the guns illegally.
Gun laws only help the criminals, do nothing to stop crime, just the contrary.
Now mental illness awareness will stop the mass shooting because in most all cases
someone knew or suspected the shooter was capable of this action against humanity
and did nothing to stop it.
Anyone can be a victim. It has nothing to do with preparedness, strength, intelligence or knowledge. Yes, there are steps that we can all take to make ourselves safer. I know that you believe one of those steps may be to possess a gun. While I don't agree, I think that there are steps we all take to make it less likely we'll be victimized (ie. locking our door at night, etc). Whether or not someone takes these steps reflects little on their character. The perpetrator, the person who chooses to violate another and to victimize them, should be the person bearing the responsibility for the crime.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
agreed mental health awareness would be a good move also.. but it's not going to stop all mass shootings... strict gun laws in australia helped the rate of gun related murders by a LOT!
In most cases if a person who is mentally ill or just plain has a personality disorder they will find a way to do the mass shooting if gun are so easy to obtain.. over the internet purchasing should be banned &^%$$ing ridiculous.
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
Personal opinion or fact? Any valid and reliable statistics to back this? Links?
The rapes don't make sense to me...
If only half of those women were trained in personal gun use
we could say bye to 550 a** holes ... those without compassion, empathy,
value and respect for another human being
worst part is ... are they out there raping more?
And there are those who would say a woman should not be allowed to protect
herself with a gun :fp: nope just lay down and take it....
but it is common sense for most people
http://www.acorn-online.com/joomla15/fa ... crime.html
I'll see what else I can dig up.
Criminals will always have guns so there will always be crime but we can ...
fight fire with fire
no one says women should just take it... I don't think men or women should have guns.. sure self defense classes but rape is a little off topic here as it's entirely another crime all together.
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
thats the first lesson my kids are going to be taught 'fight fire with fire'.. they would grow up to be monsters or gun totting hill billies.
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08