Whats going wrong with the world? More shootings

peacefrompaul

comebackgirl wrote:

Snakeduck wrote:

Gun are for pussies; I have claymores rigged around my house and a grizzly I personally trained living inside. Guns...pffft.

Seriously...my attack cat would claw some shit out of people (she really would...all 8 pounds of her) :shock: and I can kick some ass with the right stiletto in my hand. WTF do I need a gun for?

What the fuck do you need a stiletto for? Those are made to kill people, right?

comebackgirl

peacefrompaul wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

Snakeduck wrote:

Gun are for pussies; I have claymores rigged around my house and a grizzly I personally trained living inside. Guns...pffft.

Seriously...my attack cat would claw some shit out of people (she really would...all 8 pounds of her) :shock: and I can kick some ass with the right stiletto in my hand. WTF do I need a gun for?

What the fuck do you need a stiletto for? Those are made to kill people, right?

well sometimes I use them for target practice :shifty:

hedonist

comebackgirl wrote:

well sometimes I use them for target practice :shifty:

Plus they're just hot :P

Yeah, we live in a safe area, with security guards - no need for a gun here. And we too have cats (one weighing less than 8 lbs., the other more than double that!), but sad to say that while their claws can do and have done damage, they'd both be under the bed if a brawl broke out

And seriously, we've discussed what we'd use if push came to (more than) shove - butcher knife, pointy crystal vase, and a knight's "sword".

edit - seems we're all sucking at quoting today.

comebackgirl

hedonist wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

well sometimes I use them for target practice :shifty:

Plus they're just hot :P

Yeah, we live in a safe area, with security guards - no need for a gun here. And we too have cats (one weighing less than 8 lbs., the other more than double that!), but sad to say that while their claws can do and have done damage, they'd both be under the bed if a brawl broke out

And seriously, we've discussed what we'd use if push came to (more than) shove - butcher knife, pointy crystal vase, and a knight's "sword".

edit - seems we're all sucking at quoting today.

They are hot...and they make me almost average height when I wear them :oops:

My cat does not back away from danger. When I was selling my house she wouldn't let potential buyers go upstairs if she didn't like them. I have no idea where she gets that from :? :P

I seriously think I would grab one of my shoes though...that coupled with my rage about the potential of damaging said shoe in a brawl would make any intruder retreat

mikepegg44

PJ_Soul wrote:

The thing is, knife attacks are almost NEVER random or accidents. They are usually fights in bar parking lots and domestic disputes and street fights and shit like that. Random innocent bystanders don't get caught in the downswing of a knife, and someone with a knife can't commit a mass murder.

that doesn't change the numbers. If you go that route, most gun related homicides are not random either.

you are much more likely to be stabbed to death than shot with an assault rifle.

The point is people kill. We focus on the tools much more than why we have such a propensity for violence. We anthropomorphize them and make it seem like they are in charge of the murder. They aren't, Americans are.

pandora

http://www.denverpost.com/theatershooti ... e-forgives

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMwYXzro1So

Empathy is a beautiful thing, it brings value back to life, hope for the future,
it is catchy, it spreads, feels good, lightens, and most of all stops hate.

Stop the hate.

JonnyPistachio

g under p wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

South Florida has a gang problem. The gang problem was rampant in my area until a few years ago when Palm Beach County Sheriff took over my little town of Lake Worth.(Gunder P you probably know) There were 5-6 shots fired from a gang member in the intersection outside my house a few weeks ago too. I thought about getting a gun a few times, but I decided to move instead.

BUT, the more I think about limiting certain guns, the more I think someday we could catch up to some of the criminals with special task forces. (I know, doubtful thinking)

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/ ... g-d/nP4cw/

And I saw this story today ^^^ of (likely) 12 guns taken off the street. Hopefully 15 guns werent sold illegally or stolen to offset that. I know that's just one instance, but every now and then they do a sweep and take dozens of guns off the streets. I wish we could come up with a way to get these guns off the street, at least some of them.

JP, living here in Lake Worth/Wellington area you were one of the first people to bring it to my attention we had gangs here. I had no idea i even asked myself what you were talking about way back. I asked my other half who has been here all her life she went to Lake Worth High says there has ALWAYS been gangs here. I mean every single day there's shootings in Riveria Beach....man I'm so glad I live to western edge of Lake Worth where it SEEMS like there's no gangs out here.

Peace

Yeah, unless you're really close to it, most don't know about it. They try to keep it hush hush I suppose to uphold an image. And Sometimes the gangs are quiet for a year or so, then they have a resurgence. Overall, I think the sheriff takeover is helping, but there's still a problem. I think you're pretty safe out in Wellington. It is mostly Riviera and Lake Worth. The funny thing is, when my roomates car was spray painted with a gang symbol, they saent out a gang specialist officer and he tried to make me feel better by saying that they were likely claiming ground. They usually only target rival gang members with violence. Thanks pal, makes me feel better. :eh:

It really fucks with your head when you're stuck in it though - I despise guns obviously, but I've felt the temptation to get one. :?

BinauralJam

Jason Alexander, the actor famous for playing George on “Seinfeld,” posted a long argument for a ban on assault-style weapons on Twitter Sunday:

I’d like to preface this long tweet by saying that my passion comes from my deepest sympathy and shared sorrow with yesterday’s victims and with the utmost respect for the people and the police/fire/medical/political forces of Aurora and all who seek to comfort and aid these victims.

This morning, I made a comment about how I do not understand people who support public ownership of assault style weapons like the AR-15 used in the Colorado massacre. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15

That comment, has of course, inspired a lot of feedback. There have been many tweets of agreement and sympathy but many, many more that have been challenging at the least, hostile and vitriolic at the worst.

Clearly, the angry, threatened and threatening, hostile comments are coming from gun owners and gun advocates. Despite these massacres recurring and despite the 100,000 Americans that die every year due to domestic gun violence – these people see no value to even considering some kind of control as to what kinds of weapons are put in civilian hands.

Many of them cite patriotism as their reason – true patriots support the Constitution adamantly and wholly. Constitution says citizens have the right to bear arms in order to maintain organized militias. I’m no constitutional scholar so here it is from the document itself:

As passed by the Congress:
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
As ratified by the States and authenticated by Thomas Jefferson, Secretary of State:
“A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”

So the patriots are correct, gun ownership is in the constitution – if you’re in a well-regulated militia. Let’s see what no less a statesman than Alexander Hamilton had to say about a militia:

“A tolerable expertness in military movements is a business that requires time and practice. It is not a day, or even a week, that will suffice for the attainment of it. To oblige the great body of the yeomanry, and of the other classes of the citizens, to be under arms for the purpose of going through military exercises and evolutions, as often as might be necessary to acquire the degree of perfection which would entitle them to the character of a well-regulated militia, would be a real grievance to the people, and a serious public inconvenience and loss.”

Or from Merriam-Webster dictionary:
Definition of MILITIA
1
a : a part of the organized armed forces of a country liable to call only in emergency
b : a body of citizens organized for military service
2
: the whole body of able-bodied male citizens declared by law as being subject to call to military service

The advocates of guns who claim patriotism and the rights of the 2nd Amendment – are they in well-regulated militias? For the vast majority – the answer is no.

Then I get messages from seemingly decent and intelligent people who offer things like: @BrooklynAvi: Guns should only be banned if violent crimes committed with tomatoes means we should ban tomatoes. OR @nysportsguys1: Drunk drivers kill, should we ban fast cars?

I’m hoping that right after they hit send, they take a deep breath and realize that those arguments are completely specious. I believe tomatoes and cars have purposes other than killing. What purpose does an AR-15 serve to a sportsman that a more standard hunting rifle does not serve? Let’s see – does it fire more rounds without reload? Yes. Does it fire farther and more accurately? Yes. Does it accommodate a more lethal payload? Yes. So basically, the purpose of an assault style weapon is to kill more stuff, more fully, faster and from further away. To achieve maximum lethality. Hardly the primary purpose of tomatoes and sports cars.

Then there are the tweets from the extreme right – these are the folk who believe our government has been corrupted and stolen and that the forces of evil are at play, planning to take over this nation and these folk are going to fight back and take a stand. And any moron like me who doesn’t see it should…
a. be labeled a moron
b. shut the fuck up
c. be removed

And amazingly, I have some minor agreement with these folks. I believe there are evil forces at play in our government. But I call them corporatists. I call them absolutists. I call them the kind of ideologues from both sides, but mostly from the far right who swear allegiance to unelected officials that regardless of national need or global conditions, are never to levy a tax. That they are never to compromise or seek solutions with the other side. That are to obstruct every possible act of governance, even the ones they support or initiate. Whose political and social goal is to marginalize the other side, vilify and isolate them with the hope that they will surrender, go away or die out.

These people believe that the US government is eventually going to go street by street and enslave our citizens. Now as long as that is only happening to liberals, homosexuals and democrats – no problem. But if they try it with anyone else – it’s going to be arms-ageddon and these committed, God-fearing, brave souls will then use their military-esque arsenal to show the forces of our corrupt government whats-what. These people think they meet the definition of a “militia”. They don’t. At least not the constitutional one. And, if it should actually come to such an unthinkable reality, these people believe they would win. That’s why they have to “take our country back”. From who? From anyone who doesn’t think like them or see the world like them. They hold the only truth, everyone else is dangerous. Ever meet a terrorist that doesn’t believe that? Just asking.

Then there are the folks who write that if everyone in Colorado had a weapon, this maniac would have been stopped. Perhaps. But I do believe that the element of surprise, tear gas and head to toe kevlar protection might have given him a distinct edge. Not only that, but a crowd of people firing away in a chaotic arena without training or planning – I tend to think that scenario could produce even more victims.

Lastly, there are these well-intended realists that say that people like this evil animal would get these weapons even if we regulated them. And they may be right. But he wouldn’t have strolled down the road to Kmart and picked them up. Regulated, he would have had to go to illegal sources – sources that could possibly be traced, watched, overseen. Or he would have to go deeper online and those transactions could be monitored. “Hm, some guy in Aurora is buying guns, tons of ammo and kevlar – plus bomb-making ingredients and tear gas. Maybe we should check that out.”

But that won’t happen as long as all that activity is legal and unrestricted.

I have been reading on and off as advocates for these weapons make their excuses all day long. Guns don’t kill – people do. Well if that’s correct, I go with @BrooklynAvi, let them kill with tomatoes. Let them bring baseball bats, knives, even machetes — a mob can deal with that.

There is no excuse for the propagation of these weapons. They are not guaranteed or protected by our constitution. If they were, then we could all run out and purchase a tank, a grenade launcher, a bazooka, a SCUD missile and a nuclear warhead. We could stockpile napalm and chemical weapons and bomb-making materials in our cellars under our guise of being a militia.

These weapons are military weapons. They belong in accountable hands, controlled hands and trained hands. They should not be in the hands of private citizens to be used against police, neighborhood intruders or people who don’t agree with you. These are the weapons that maniacs acquire to wreak murder and mayhem on innocents. They are not the same as handguns to help homeowners protect themselves from intruders. They are not the same as hunting rifles or sporting rifles. These weapons are designed for harm and death on big scales.

SO WHY DO YOU CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THEM? WHY DO YOU NOT, AT LEAST, AGREE TO SIT WITH REASONABLE PEOPLE FROM BOTH SIDES AND ASK HARD QUESTIONS AND LOOK AT HARD STATISTICS AND POSSIBLY MAKE SOME COMPROMISES FOR THE GREATER GOOD? SO THAT MOTHERS AND FATHERS AND CHILDREN ARE NOT SLAUGHTERED QUITE SO EASILY BY THESE MONSTERS? HOW CAN IT HURT TO STOP DEFENDING THESE THINGS AND AT LEAST CONSIDER HOW WE CAN ALL WORK TO TRY TO PREVENT ANOTHER DAY LIKE YESTERDAY?

We will not prevent every tragedy. We cannot stop every maniac. But we certainly have done ourselves no good by allowing these particular weapons to be acquired freely by just about anyone.

I’ll say it plainly – if someone wants these weapons, they intend to use them. And if they are willing to force others to “pry it from my cold, dead hand”, then they are probably planning on using them on people.

So, sorry those of you who tell me I’m an actor, or a has-been or an idiot or a commie or a liberal and that I should shut up. You can not watch my stuff, you can unfollow and you can call me all the names you like. I may even share some of them with my global audience so everyone can get a little taste of who you are.

But this is not the time for reasonable people, on both sides of this issue, to be silent. We owe it to the people whose lives were ended and ruined yesterday to insist on a real discussion and hopefully on some real action.

In conclusion, whoever you are and wherever you stand on this issue, I hope you have the joy of family with you today. Hold onto them and love them as best you can. Tell them what they mean to you. Yesterday, a whole bunch of them went to the movies and tonight their families are without them. Every day is precious. Every life is precious. Take care. Be well. Be safe. God bless.

Jason Alexander

JonnyPistachio

BinauralJam wrote:

Jason Alexander, the actor famous for playing George on “Seinfeld,” posted a long argument for a ban on assault-style weapons on Twitter Sunday:

That was very well said. And I think no matter what side you're on, banning all weapons, some weapons, banning none...i'm sure we all don't want to see people die...we all just have different ideas of means to keep it from happening. Personally, I think what Jason Alexander said was eloquent and perfect.

satansbed

http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-4-most- ... n-control/

hedonist

pandora wrote:

http://www.denverpost.com/theatershooting/ci_21158275/aurora-victim-released-from-hospital-says-he-forgives

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMwYXzro1So

Empathy is a beautiful thing, it brings value back to life, hope for the future,
it is catchy, it spreads, feels good, lightens, and most of all stops hate.

Stop the hate.

Good for whomever has the capacity to feel empathy for a sick fucker, and the ability to forgive them.

Doesn't mean everyone can or should (and I'm amazed that anyone could be so arrogant to say as much); also doesn't mean that those withholding "empathy" for someone like this piece of shit are heartless if they choose to place their compassion elsewhere.

ComeToTX

pandora wrote:

http://www.denverpost.com/theatershooting/ci_21158275/aurora-victim-released-from-hospital-says-he-forgives

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMwYXzro1So

Empathy is a beautiful thing, it brings value back to life, hope for the future,
it is catchy, it spreads, feels good, lightens, and most of all stops hate.

Stop the hate.

if he shot me and i lived i might be able to forgive me. if he shot my young child an she died there's no way i could.

cincybearcat

mikepegg44 wrote:

you are much more likely to be stabbed to death than shot with an assault rifle.

The point is people kill. We focus on the tools much more than why we have such a propensity for violence. We anthropomorphize them and make it seem like they are in charge of the murder. They aren't, Americans are.

People kill, so let's stop making it easy for them.

Again, knives have some very valuable purposes that don't include killing people. Please name for me 1 other purpose of an assault rifle that doesn't involve killing. :corn:

I've been waiting for a reason to use the popcorn smiley...thanks Mike!!!

mikepegg44

cincybearcat wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

you are much more likely to be stabbed to death than shot with an assault rifle.

The point is people kill. We focus on the tools much more than why we have such a propensity for violence. We anthropomorphize them and make it seem like they are in charge of the murder. They aren't, Americans are.

People kill, so let's stop making it easy for them.

Again, knives have some very valuable purposes that don't include killing people. Please name for me 1 other purpose of an assault rifle that doesn't involve killing. :corn:

I've been waiting for a reason to use the popcorn smiley...thanks Mike!!!

stress relief during target/clay shooting...my main use for firearms. Penis measuring contest with other gun owners.

:fp: :nono: :corn:



I like to get all three in

edit***
I cannot say that I would never use my firearms to kill, because I would if I had to, but that isn't its main purpose for me. contrary to popular belief, most hand guns and rifles will never be used to kill someone.

chadwick

hedonist wrote:

pandora wrote:

http://www.denverpost.com/theatershooting/ci_21158275/aurora-victim-released-from-hospital-says-he-forgives

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMwYXzro1So

Empathy is a beautiful thing, it brings value back to life, hope for the future,
it is catchy, it spreads, feels good, lightens, and most of all stops hate.

Stop the hate.

Good for whomever has the capacity to feel empathy for a sick fucker, and the ability to forgive them.

Doesn't mean everyone can or should (and I'm amazed that anyone could be so arrogant to say as much); also doesn't mean that those withholding "empathy" for someone like this piece of shit are heartless if they choose to place their compassion elsewhere.

thank you, hedonist


i follow a bit of different beliefs; for example, buddhism & hinduism
love the culture of these people
love the artwork, the beliefs, the chanting monks, and the shrines and things.

in my opinion
his holiness himself the 14th dalai lama has not the capacity at this time to make such statements about understanding & forgiveness to such a monster
again...only my opinion. i could be dead wrong.

the dalai lama says one can flick @ mosquito when several attempts have been made to
have the mosquito understand you wish to be left alone and you did give blood to him/her already

http://youtu.be/W083nSzx1Rc

so you see. this bad guy is like mosquito
this time he does very much evil
no forgiveness he must go away
it is not our job to forgive this level of evil
it is out of human reach of understanding

Godfather.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/27/justice/c ... ?hpt=hp_t1

Godfather.

redrock

hedonist wrote:

pandora wrote:

http://www.denverpost.com/theatershooting/ci_21158275/aurora-victim-released-from-hospital-says-he-forgives

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMwYXzro1So

Empathy is a beautiful thing, it brings value back to life, hope for the future,
it is catchy, it spreads, feels good, lightens, and most of all stops hate.

Stop the hate.

Good for whomever has the capacity to feel empathy for a sick fucker, and the ability to forgive them.

Doesn't mean everyone can or should (and I'm amazed that anyone could be so arrogant to say as much); also doesn't mean that those withholding "empathy" for someone like this piece of shit are heartless if they choose to place their compassion elsewhere.

Exactly Hedonist. So, one deeply religious person who got shot and survived (but did not lose any of his loved ones) forgives this man for his actions (guess this would be part of his beliefs/church). Then he also said that the guy was shooting but then god came in and the killer stopped shooting. Also, note forgiveness is not empathy.

As you say hedonist, the lack of empathy is not being heartless and it is not 'replaced' by hate. It is ludicrous even hinting at that. Empathy is not always a positive thing either. It's the capability to understand another's state of mind. This can be used in an 'understanding' way or, on the contrary, in a very very negative way.

satansbed

mikepegg44 wrote:

stress relief during target/clay shooting...my main use for firearms. Penis measuring contest with other gun owners.

:fp: :nono: :corn:



I like to get all three in

edit***
I cannot say that I would never use my firearms to kill, because I would if I had to, but that isn't its main purpose for me. contrary to popular belief, most hand guns and rifles will never be used to kill someone.

But isn't that basically just practicing killing something anyway.

I have no problem with hunting rifles etc, but i just don't see the point of people having hand guns or assault rifles

redrock

satansbed wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

stress relief during target/clay shooting...my main use for firearms. Penis measuring contest with other gun owners.

:fp: :nono: :corn:

........................

But isn't that basically just practicing killing something anyway.

I don't think so Satan - one can practice a skill (just like archery). It's just the frame of mind the target practice is done with. Though I guess there are some 'nutters' that may see the target as their hated boss/partner/noisy neighbour and 'imagine' they are shooting at them. (Since I got a :fp: for using the term nutter in another thread and was deemed insensitive, I would like to say i use the term loosely for 'weirdo'/'fucked up' and not as another term for the mentally ill ). I believe if one owns a gun for target practice (as many people seem to admit they own guns for), leave the gun and ammo under lock and key at the range and use it for this sport. They have no place out in the public....

pandora

hedonist wrote:

pandora wrote:

http://www.denverpost.com/theatershooting/ci_21158275/aurora-victim-released-from-hospital-says-he-forgives

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMwYXzro1So

Empathy is a beautiful thing, it brings value back to life, hope for the future,
it is catchy, it spreads, feels good, lightens, and most of all stops hate.

Stop the hate.

Good for whomever has the capacity to feel empathy for a sick fucker, and the ability to forgive them.

Doesn't mean everyone can or should (and I'm amazed that anyone could be so arrogant to say as much); also doesn't mean that those withholding "empathy" for someone like this piece of shit are heartless if they choose to place their compassion elsewhere.

Do you have a loved one with schizophrenia?
Do you know the disease?
Can you learn about it if not? once educated you will see no arrogance
more a logical conclusion.

I too have said if he is not found to be mentally ill I would not have empathy
but that is not my gut feeling in this case.

I know having seen the disease first hand that this shooter would not be responsible
for his actions. He would need medication the rest of his life in a prison hospital.

This comes from a logical place not empathy.

If someone is not competent they are not responsible

non compos mentis

As much as you and others want to blame or call him a sick fuck
you would be wrong he would just be sick.
The fuck part comes from a motive he does not have,
if indeed a victim himself.

If you could live inside the torment of schizophrenia you would understand my use
of the term victim.