come on down to the westland mall where seemingly every month is a gun show, that somehow managed to be immune from quite a few of these laws regarding selling or resale of fire arms.
Come on down to the DMV when you turn 16...pass a 20 question "test" and you to can drive a 4,000 pound vehicle at blazing speeds down the highway!
It's a lot harder than that in NJ. Five steps to getting your license here, including getting 6 hours of driver's education, which will enable you to get a driver's permit. Then you have to drive with a licensed driver for a period of time, take a 100 point written test and a road test, and then there are restrictions of when you can drive and with whom. A lot of restrictions probably because driving can be dangerous, even though that's not the intended purpose of driving.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
your posts about cars seems to suggest your are in favor of banning them. Which, frankly, I find find strange coming from a car salesman.
Mickey...it's just straight logic. People concentrate on these small issues...tragic, beleive me I don't want to see people hurt or killed...but they really believe banning weapons sold in this country LEGALLY AND REGULATED is the answer? Really? Add up all of the victims over the last 30 years from LEGALLY obtained weapons and I bet there were more people who died from stab fucking wounds this week alone? Lets ban the knives sold right? :fp:
I think a post following this initial one pointed out that 3/4 of the guns in these shootings were obtained legally. There are shootings in other countries. There was a horrific one in Australia in 1996, that I believe resulted in 35 dead. After this there were stricter controls put in place around assault weapons. I don't believe there has been a shooting of this magnitude since.
Where's all of the articles on stats on legally owned weapons that didn't cause any injuries over the past thirty years? Plus I GUARANTEE more people died from cars over the past thirty years than in these unfortunate events.
I don't know. Please post them if you have them. I'd be interested in reading them.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
come on down to the westland mall where seemingly every month is a gun show, that somehow managed to be immune from quite a few of these laws regarding selling or resale of fire arms.
Come on down to the DMV when you turn 16...pass a 20 question "test" and you to can drive a 4,000 pound vehicle at blazing speeds down the highway!
It's a lot harder than that in NJ. Five steps to getting your license here, including getting 6 hours of driver's education, which will enable you to get a driver's permit. Then you have to drive with a licensed driver for a period of time, take a 100 point written test and a road test, and then there are restrictions of when you can drive and with whom. A lot of restrictions probably because driving can be dangerous, even though that's not the intended purpose of driving.
Essentially the same here too... except more than 6 hours to get your permit. And minus the 100 point test... more like 30... Plus the drivers ed class which was three hours a day, 5 days a week, for two weeks.
even though that's not the intended purpose of driving.
Ask Eddie Vedder about this. I seem to remember reading about and seeing a clip in a movie about a certain whacko who wanted to drive their truck through his front door. The driver didn't have a gun.
I think a post following this initial one pointed out that 3/4 of the guns in these shootings were obtained legally. There are shootings in other countries. There was a horrific one in Australia in 1996, that I believe resulted in 35 dead. After this there were stricter controls put in place around assault weapons. I don't believe there has been a shooting of this magnitude since.
Where's all of the articles on stats on legally owned weapons that didn't cause any injuries over the past thirty years? Plus I GUARANTEE more people died from cars over the past thirty years than in these unfortunate events.
I don't know. Please post them if you have them. I'd be interested in reading them.
You honestly think more people were killed in this country from legally obtained weapons than from cars over the past 30 years that I need to find stats? Really? :?
some may argue that the current laws and regulation dont go far enough. It states quite specifically in the 2nd amendment well REGULATED MILITIA( which means to me a miltary type org controlled by the gov state or local).
I propose joe citizen can have all the muzzle loaded weapons they want. Lates go back to the weaponry that was around when the bill of rights was ratified.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Of course the victimizer is the responsible party but a victim is made each day, have a plan,
be prepared.
Locking the door? Is that a joke?
You can be as prepared as possible, and that is not a guarantee you will not be victimized. The people that dropped their kids at daycare the day of the Oklahoma City bombing couldn't have kept their kids safe no matter how *prepared* they were. A great deal of violence is unpredictable. Some of the most prepared people have not been immune to this (cops, military, secret service, security personnel). Some people live with an extraordinary amount of fear. Believing they have a sense of control over unpredictable events gives them a sense of safety. I understand if this is what some people need to believe to make it through the day.
That last question appears antagonistic, so I will leave that part alone.
Please tell me something I don't know
We can prepare ourselves for personal attacks
Miss Ruby did and she is alive to tell about it ...
would you have it another way for her?
and countless others?
Because you don't want to prepare yourself?
That is your choice others are making a choice to be prepared and not be a victim.
I thought you must have been joking...
Miss Ruby's door was locked....
Oh good. I'm glad you are already aware of this. We can probably put this discussion to rest then since we are in agreement on that topic.
I didn't reference Miss Ruby's situation in this post. I am replying to your generalized comments about victimization that seemed to need some clarifying.
Are you assuming I don't prepare myself Pandora? Considering the common joke about me is that I am over prepared for just about everything, that is funny. But you don't know me, so of course you wouldn't know that and I wouldn't expect you to. The one thing that I have realized is that no matter how crazily prepared for things I am, bad things can still happen. For example, I am ridiculous about maintenance on my car, yet that didn't stop a rock from flying up and knocking a hole in my radiator. I can be ridiculously prepared for an attack of some sort, but that won't necessarily stop it from happening, nor would it make me responsible for my own victimization.
Oh ok. Well I think you missed the point of my comment about locking the door. I wasn't referring to Miss Ruby or stating that locking ones door would be fail safe. I was stating that we all do things that we believe will keep us safer.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
You honestly think more people were killed in this country from legally obtained weapons than from cars over the past 30 years that I need to find stats? Really? :?
I'd really like to see them if you have them.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Oh ok. Well I think you missed the point of my comment about locking the door. I wasn't referring to Miss Ruby or stating that locking ones door would be fail safe. .
Though do we know for a fact that her doors were locked? A 89 year old can be forgetful... Hypothetical question not needing response.
So... were you lying when you said you don't own a gun?
I never lie ...
are you assuming again or insulting?
Um, no, I'm asking a question.
What you're saying now about vicitms and scoffing at locked doors, etc, just doesn't add up if you don't own a gun. So I figured you were either lying about not having a gun, or are totally overstating your position and arguing something you don't truly believe now.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
You honestly think more people were killed in this country from legally obtained weapons than from cars over the past 30 years that I need to find stats? Really? :?
You honestly think more people were killed in this country from legally obtained weapons than from cars over the past 30 years that I need to find stats? Really? :?
I'd really like to see them if you have them.
Really?? :fp: I'll do the google search.
Cool thanks for doing the legwork I really don't know the numbers and I'd be interested in seeing them. I'm a numbers geek, so I like to see what the stats are in peer reviewed journals.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
looks like someone should have brought their guns to church.... that would have stopped this :roll:
oh yeah, guns don't kill people, i forgot... silly me :fp:
seriously, how many more of these are we going to have to hear about before we have an adult conversation about guns in this country? this thread is a microcosm of the problem. everyone is making up scenaraios and hypotheticals and suggesting things like banning cars, when the real problem is it is easier to get a gun than it is to vote in this country and something has to be done about it.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
looks like someone should have brought their guns to church.... that would have stopped this :roll:
oh yeah, guns don't kill people, i forgot... silly me :fp:
seriously, how many more of these are we going to have to hear about before we have an adult conversation about guns in this country? this thread is a microcosm of the problem. everyone is making up scenaraios and hypotheticals and suggesting things like banning cars, when the real problem is it is easier to get a gun than it is to vote in this country and something has to be done about it.
Everything when it comes to law changing is hypothetical? :fp: If you really think banning guns or even stricter gun control will end these senseless acts of violence you are mistaken. They would just find another means. The Oklahoma bomber didn't use a gun.
Cool thanks for doing the legwork I really don't know the numbers and I'd be interested in seeing them. I'm a numbers geek, so I like to see what the stats are in peer reviewed journals.
There are certainly more deaths from auto accidents than gun deaths. But I don't see why the two should be compared. Cars have a clear benefit that outweigh the risks by a ling shot. They have a huge part in maintaining a standard of living, they keep the economy running, transport all of our goods, etc. Guns don't have any of the benefits, and therefore aren't worth the risks. I personally think it's a nonsensical comparison. And yes, cars/driving are/is way more regulated. And insured. And bullets don't have seat belts and air bags. And pedestrians and drivers at least have clear guidelines on where each h other is supposed to be. Also, if you look at it from a per capita view (how many people own or get into cars or walk down the street near cars), then guns are probably a lot more dangerous.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Everything when it comes to law changing is hypothetical? :fp: If you really think banning guns or even stricter gun control will end these senseless acts of violence you are mistaken. They would just find another means. The Oklahoma bomber didn't use a gun.
we need to have an adult conversation about it.
why is it easier to get a gun than be able to vote?
recent polls show that over 80% of gun owners feel it should be law to have background checks before getting guns. over 60% of gun owners feel that there should be a limit on the number of guns you can buy in a given period of time. and a large majority feel that the large 100 round magazines should be more difficult to get.
why is that? because the legal, responsible, gun owners do not want to be besmirched by idiots like this guy in colorado, the guy in wisconsin today, the guy who shot giffords, etc....these dudes make all gun owners look bad.
and finally,
why does the nra find it appropriate to allow convicted felons and people on the terror watch list to be able to buy guns without any sort of limits?
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
your posts about cars seems to suggest your are in favor of banning them. Which, frankly, I find find strange coming from a car salesman.
Mickey...it's just straight logic. People concentrate on these small issues...tragic, beleive me I don't want to see people hurt or killed...but they really believe banning weapons sold in this country LEGALLY AND REGULATED is the answer? Really? Add up all of the victims over the last 30 years from LEGALLY obtained weapons and I bet there were more people who died from stab fucking wounds this week alone? Lets ban the knives sold right? :fp:
To be fair, i don't think most people are calling for a complete ban on guns (with a couple of exceptions). I think most just support way more strict regulations to reduce harm and to pull America away from it's love affair with deadly weapons.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
everyone is making up scenaraios and hypotheticals and suggesting things like banning cars, when the real problem is it is easier to get a gun than it is to vote in this country and something has to be done about it.
Asinine suggestions to deflect on either complete ignorance on the subject or not wishing to 'see' the actual issues as it does not fit with one's 'agenda'.
Certainly tighter controls work - and no, I do not have stats to hand and will not google them. It has already been done on many other gun threads. If one really wants to have them, one can go through these and find them. Of course tighter controls will not eliminate gun crime - no one in this thread put this suggestion forward - but it can reduce it and certainly reduce lethal crime (or, even if not crime, suicides, accidents, etc.).
The american citizen is no different to say the canadian or aussie or whatever. If an excitable young man gets in a fight in the US, he is more likely to use a gun against his 'opponent' - not because he is more violent but because it was easier for him to get a gun than the canadian or the aussie and thus potentially causing a death. The canadian or aussie may use a knife or his fists, still causing damage but more often than not, repairable damage.
even though that's not the intended purpose of driving.
Ask Eddie Vedder about this. I seem to remember reading about and seeing a clip in a movie about a certain whacko who wanted to drive their truck through his front door. The driver didn't have a gun.
Eddie also wrote Glorified G and Lukin.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Cool thanks for doing the legwork I really don't know the numbers and I'd be interested in seeing them. I'm a numbers geek, so I like to see what the stats are in peer reviewed journals.
Well the number for a 30 year period for automobiles from 1980 to 2010 is 1,697,722 souls lost. Should I even continue?
There are certainly more deaths from auto accidents than gun deaths. But I don't see why the two should be compared. Cars have a clear benefit that outweigh the risks by a ling shot. They have a huge part in maintaining a standard of living, they keep the economy running, transport all of our goods, etc. Guns don't have any of the benefits, and therefore aren't worth the risks. I personally think it's a nonsensical comparison. And yes, cars/driving are/is way more regulated. And insured. And bullets don't have seat belts and air bags. And pedestrians and drivers at least have clear guidelines on where each h other is supposed to be. Also, if you look at it from a per capita view (how many people own or get into cars or walk down the street near cars), then guns are probably a lot more dangerous.
I agree on that. I'm interested in hearing about percentages rather than whole numbers and how many guns that are used illegally were initially obtained legally.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Cool thanks for doing the legwork I really don't know the numbers and I'd be interested in seeing them. I'm a numbers geek, so I like to see what the stats are in peer reviewed journals.
Well the number for a 30 year period for automobiles from 1980 to 2010 is 1,697,722 souls lost. Should I even continue?
Everything when it comes to law changing is hypothetical? :fp: If you really think banning guns or even stricter gun control will end these senseless acts of violence you are mistaken. They would just find another means. The Oklahoma bomber didn't use a gun.
we need to have an adult conversation about it.
why is it easier to get a gun than be able to vote?
recent polls show that over 80% of gun owners feel it should be law to have background checks before getting guns. over 60% of gun owners feel that there should be a limit on the number of guns you can buy in a given period of time. and a large majority feel that the large 100 round magazines should be more difficult to get.
why is that? because the legal, responsible, gun owners do not want to be besmirched by idiots like this guy in colorado, the guy in wisconsin today, the guy who shot giffords, etc....these dudes make all gun owners look bad.
and finally,
why does the nra find it appropriate to allow convicted felons and people on the terror watch list to be able to buy guns without any sort of limits?
Same reason they have all of the other rights in this country.
your posts about cars seems to suggest your are in favor of banning them. Which, frankly, I find find strange coming from a car salesman.
Mickey...it's just straight logic. People concentrate on these small issues...tragic, beleive me I don't want to see people hurt or killed...but they really believe banning weapons sold in this country LEGALLY AND REGULATED is the answer? Really? Add up all of the victims over the last 30 years from LEGALLY obtained weapons and I bet there were more people who died from stab fucking wounds this week alone? Lets ban the knives sold right? :fp:
To be fair, i don't think most people are calling for a complete ban on guns (with a couple of exceptions). I think most just support way more strict regulations to reduce harm and to pull America away from it's love affair with deadly weapons.
everyone is making up scenaraios and hypotheticals and suggesting things like banning cars, when the real problem is it is easier to get a gun than it is to vote in this country and something has to be done about it.
Asinine suggestions to deflect on either complete ignorance on the subject or not wishing to 'see' the actual issues as it does not fit with one's 'agenda'.
Certainly tighter controls work - and no, I do not have stats to hand and will not google them. It has already been done on many other gun threads. If one really wants to have them, one can go through these and find them. Of course tighter controls will not eliminate gun crime - no one in this thread put this suggestion forward - but it can reduce it and certainly reduce lethal crime (or, even if not crime, suicides, accidents, etc.).
The american citizen is no different to say the canadian or aussie or whatever. If an excitable young man gets in a fight in the US, he is more likely to use a gun against his 'opponent' - not because he is more violent but because it was easier for him to get a gun than the canadian or the aussie and thus potentially causing a death. The canadian or aussie may use a knife or his fists, still causing damage but more often than not, repairable damage.
You have looked at murder rtaes across the World right based on population? The US is at the lower end of that actually...well below countries that don't allow LEGALLY POSSESSED FIREARMS! :fp:
even though that's not the intended purpose of driving.
Ask Eddie Vedder about this. I seem to remember reading about and seeing a clip in a movie about a certain whacko who wanted to drive their truck through his front door. The driver didn't have a gun.
Eddie also wrote Glorified G and Lukin.
What he wrote doesn't change the facts of what happened. :?
Mickey...it's just straight logic. People concentrate on these small issues...tragic, beleive me I don't want to see people hurt or killed...but they really believe banning weapons sold in this country LEGALLY AND REGULATED is the answer? Really? Add up all of the victims over the last 30 years from LEGALLY obtained weapons and I bet there were more people who died from stab fucking wounds this week alone? Lets ban the knives sold right? :fp:
To be fair, i don't think most people are calling for a complete ban on guns (with a couple of exceptions). I think most just support way more strict regulations to reduce harm and to pull America away from it's love affair with deadly weapons.
Wow. :fp:
What?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Mickey...it's just straight logic. People concentrate on these small issues...tragic, beleive me I don't want to see people hurt or killed...but they really believe banning weapons sold in this country LEGALLY AND REGULATED is the answer? Really? Add up all of the victims over the last 30 years from LEGALLY obtained weapons and I bet there were more people who died from stab fucking wounds this week alone?
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Essentially the same here too... except more than 6 hours to get your permit. And minus the 100 point test... more like 30... Plus the drivers ed class which was three hours a day, 5 days a week, for two weeks.
Ask Eddie Vedder about this. I seem to remember reading about and seeing a clip in a movie about a certain whacko who wanted to drive their truck through his front door. The driver didn't have a gun.
You honestly think more people were killed in this country from legally obtained weapons than from cars over the past 30 years that I need to find stats? Really? :?
I propose joe citizen can have all the muzzle loaded weapons they want. Lates go back to the weaponry that was around when the bill of rights was ratified.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I didn't reference Miss Ruby's situation in this post. I am replying to your generalized comments about victimization that seemed to need some clarifying.
Are you assuming I don't prepare myself Pandora? Considering the common joke about me is that I am over prepared for just about everything, that is funny. But you don't know me, so of course you wouldn't know that and I wouldn't expect you to. The one thing that I have realized is that no matter how crazily prepared for things I am, bad things can still happen. For example, I am ridiculous about maintenance on my car, yet that didn't stop a rock from flying up and knocking a hole in my radiator. I can be ridiculously prepared for an attack of some sort, but that won't necessarily stop it from happening, nor would it make me responsible for my own victimization.
Oh ok. Well I think you missed the point of my comment about locking the door. I wasn't referring to Miss Ruby or stating that locking ones door would be fail safe. I was stating that we all do things that we believe will keep us safer.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
What you're saying now about vicitms and scoffing at locked doors, etc, just doesn't add up if you don't own a gun. So I figured you were either lying about not having a gun, or are totally overstating your position and arguing something you don't truly believe now.
Really??
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
oh yeah, guns don't kill people, i forgot... silly me :fp:
seriously, how many more of these are we going to have to hear about before we have an adult conversation about guns in this country? this thread is a microcosm of the problem. everyone is making up scenaraios and hypotheticals and suggesting things like banning cars, when the real problem is it is easier to get a gun than it is to vote in this country and something has to be done about it.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Everything when it comes to law changing is hypothetical? :fp:
why is it easier to get a gun than be able to vote?
recent polls show that over 80% of gun owners feel it should be law to have background checks before getting guns. over 60% of gun owners feel that there should be a limit on the number of guns you can buy in a given period of time. and a large majority feel that the large 100 round magazines should be more difficult to get.
why is that? because the legal, responsible, gun owners do not want to be besmirched by idiots like this guy in colorado, the guy in wisconsin today, the guy who shot giffords, etc....these dudes make all gun owners look bad.
and finally,
why does the nra find it appropriate to allow convicted felons and people on the terror watch list to be able to buy guns without any sort of limits?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
We don't need to ban cars or guns we need to do more to protect people, like we've done with cars.
Like others have said most car deaths occur because the car is not being used the way it is meant to. Guns are made to kill.
Asinine suggestions to deflect on either complete ignorance on the subject or not wishing to 'see' the actual issues as it does not fit with one's 'agenda'.
Certainly tighter controls work - and no, I do not have stats to hand and will not google them. It has already been done on many other gun threads. If one really wants to have them, one can go through these and find them. Of course tighter controls will not eliminate gun crime - no one in this thread put this suggestion forward - but it can reduce it and certainly reduce lethal crime (or, even if not crime, suicides, accidents, etc.).
The american citizen is no different to say the canadian or aussie or whatever. If an excitable young man gets in a fight in the US, he is more likely to use a gun against his 'opponent' - not because he is more violent but because it was easier for him to get a gun than the canadian or the aussie and thus potentially causing a death. The canadian or aussie may use a knife or his fists, still causing damage but more often than not, repairable damage.
Well the number for a 30 year period for automobiles from 1980 to 2010 is 1,697,722 souls lost. Should I even continue?
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
And see. That's where the issue is. YOU feel that cars risk outweighs the benefits. Bernie Goetz would disagree with you here about that.
Good enough?
http://www.datamasher.org/mash-ups/fire ... #table-tab
Same reason they have all of the other rights in this country.
Wow. :fp:
You have looked at murder rtaes across the World right based on population? The US is at the lower end of that actually...well below countries that don't allow LEGALLY POSSESSED FIREARMS!
What he wrote doesn't change the facts of what happened. :?