Whats going wrong with the world? More shootings

pandora

PJ_Soul wrote:

Yes, my uncle.
Yes, he was sick with that disease and never.hurt anyone physically, even while off medication.
Yes, obviously, his family was traumatized constantantly by the fact that he had this disease.
No, why in the hell would a vet with schizophrenia vs a non-vet with schizophrenia make a difference? You're not talking about ptsd here (plus a vet would never be a schizophrenic, the military doesn't allow it and would know).

Most importantly, why ate you talking about schizophrenia??? There is no indication whatsoever that he has this disease. Schizophrenic people are not lucid enough during times of mania to plan what he did. You have no idea what his motives were, but I can pretty much guarantee you that he didn't have schizophrenia.

I'd just like to inform you that plenty of people here have as much or more knowledge.of and experience with mental illness than you do, and really wish you would stop acting like you know something tha others don't. All you have that others don't here is blinders on, as per usual.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Lee_Loughner this guy was ....
he is now a diagnosed schizophrenic on forced treatments.
But back when he did his shooting spree this was not known and no treatment for him.

Schizophrenia presents in many ways for you to make a comment like the red bolded well
that is just not true.

pandora

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Because I see how you operate. You're over on the Trayvon Martin thread doing the same thing- championing for the criminal... making them out to be the victim.

I've already said my piece in this discussion and anytime I add something to it... you go back and speak of something I've clarified for you (ie. 'semantics' with cause and excuse). I get the feeling you like to do a lot of talking and not a lot of listening.

By the way... great use of the head slapping emoticon. Again, a veiled method to hoist yourself above people without actually coming out and saying, "Oh dear. Tsk. Why do I even bother with you simple people?"

I don't think you've read many of my posts if you think I side with criminals...
just another assumption.

The thread you speak of there are very few posts of mine there.
I have not followed the case and have not sided with either the victim or the shooter.

Kat

This violence and tragedy is extremely upsetting. It's difficult to discuss a topic like this without becoming emotional but the Posting Guidelines are not suspended for difficult topics. If you find that you cannot discuss the event and topic without making personal comments at other Ten Club members here, please do not post. Limiting yourself to reading might be the way to go.

Speculation and assumptions are also understandable as people try to understand why the hell this happened. Remember that when you're discussing please.

Also, take any personal bickering to PM. It's another violation of the Posting Guidelines to post it. :nono: It's a requirement to show respect to each other in your posts here.

Thanks.

---

Now, my personal opinion...I always felt that someone who takes another life, unless it's self-defense or they're ordered to while in the service, is mentally unbalanced in some way. I have no idea what the precise diagnosis might be and it's probably different from case to case but normal humans don't kill each other. Simplistic? Maybe but it serves me well. Have a good week everyone and since the news is going to be on this topic constantly for a while, it might be good to not watch as much...just get updates, you know? I believe the horror of it does have an effect if watched too much.

pandora

ComeToTX wrote:

Even if this guy was mentally ill he would have to choose to get help. He attended multiple universities that I'm pretty sure offered some type of free health care for students. You can't make people seek help so it would be nice to keep them away from anything that can kill 100 people in a matter of minutes and be purchased legally.

The nature alone of many mental illnesses keep victims from seeking help.

But loved ones can often help if there are means to do so, most especially financial.
But until violence happens towards another or towards themselves
it is very hard to get someone help and the financial expense makes it impossible for most.

norm

Kat wrote:

Have a good week everyone and since the news is going to be on this topic constantly for a while, it might be good to not watch as much...just get updates, you know? I believe the horror of it does have an effect if watched too much.

agreed...i'll just stick to twitter updates etc...i can't handle getting into this guy's life...since it's not gonna change a thing

and kat, let's remind everyone about the foe feature...doesn't help when someone is quoted but it helps

g under p

norm wrote:

Kat wrote:

Have a good week everyone and since the news is going to be on this topic constantly for a while, it might be good to not watch as much...just get updates, you know? I believe the horror of it does have an effect if watched too much.

agreed...i'll just stick to twitter updates etc...i can't handle getting into this guy's life...since it's not gonna change a thing

and kat, let's remind everyone about the foe feature...doesn't help when someone is quoted but it helps

Norm, what's the foe feature.....it appears I may have a few of those?

Peace everybody.

norm

g under p wrote:

norm wrote:

Kat wrote:

Have a good week everyone and since the news is going to be on this topic constantly for a while, it might be good to not watch as much...just get updates, you know? I believe the horror of it does have an effect if watched too much.

agreed...i'll just stick to twitter updates etc...i can't handle getting into this guy's life...since it's not gonna change a thing

and kat, let's remind everyone about the foe feature...doesn't help when someone is quoted but it helps

Norm, what's the foe feature.....it appears I may have a few of those?

Peace everybody.

click on the person's profile...at the top in the middle there are 2 options...add as friend and add as foe

dimitrispearljam

norm wrote:

click on the person's profile...at the top in the middle there are 2 options...add as friend and add as foe

thats why i cant read u Tim?i foe you??

no way..u are my favo around here..u are a friend...

JonnyPistachio

pandora wrote:

ComeToTX wrote:

Even if this guy was mentally ill he would have to choose to get help. He attended multiple universities that I'm pretty sure offered some type of free health care for students. You can't make people seek help so it would be nice to keep them away from anything that can kill 100 people in a matter of minutes and be purchased legally.

The nature alone of many mental illnesses keep victims from seeking help.

But loved ones can often help if there are means to do so, most especially financial.
But until violence happens towards another or towards themselves
it is very hard to get someone help and the financial expense makes it impossible for most.

And its hard to identify sometimes, I'll bet. and if family is able to identify a person is instable, I'm sure they're often in denial about it too. However, CometoTX makes a point...maybe a canon like this AR-15 shouldnt be available to just anyone. Did you see my quote up above about the fact that the USA is unique in that we allow our civilians access to military grade weapons in some instances?

dustinpardue

know1 wrote:

ComeToTX wrote:

...or maybe it's less of a gun problem and more of a problem with our society.

This is what I think.

Exactly. This idea was also the conclusion of the Bowling for Columbine documentary

EmBleve

FrankieG wrote:

I dindn't read most of this thread, but I think it's worth noting that the present day media has allowed the exposure of these types of events to be heard around the world. If shootings happened 100 years ago, only a certain group of people would know about it. It seems like it's more prevailant now, but that just might be because we all hear about every single case.

It is very sad and when I heard about it i was very rattled..

I agree with what you're saying here about the exposure in the media. It is terrible, and it is indeed a tragedy..but the way it has been on television makes me inclined to compare it to 9/11 (insofar as the constant bombardment from news media). In regards to his mental status, anything about that at this point (as others have said) is speculation. Of course, to a layperson, he's 'crazy'. To just throw that around, though, without a diagnosis is still speculation (and again, as others have mentioned, perpetuates the stigma surrounding mental illness). However, this being said, it was obvious that it was going to be the defense argument from minute 1.

norm

dimitrispearljam wrote:

norm wrote:

click on the person's profile...at the top in the middle there are 2 options...add as friend and add as foe

thats why i cant read u Tim?i foe you??

no way..u are my favo around here..u are a friend...

:wave:

sadly i had to use this feature...haven't had to do it since the old board

JonnyPistachio

I thought this was an interesting read on mass murder and powerful weapons:

http://us.cnn.com/2012/07/23/opinion/we ... hpt=hp_bn7

Cosmo

From my observations regarding this tragedy... and from reading the comments regarding as such... some people CRAVE/NEED attention, regardless of the cost.

hedonist

dimitrispearljam wrote:

i foe you??

Well now...this made me smile in the midst of such heaviness

Kat

g under p wrote:

Norm, what's the foe feature.....it appears I may have a few of those?

Peace everybody.

It's an Ignore List kind of thing. You can add someone's name to it if you feel their posts are ones that you just don't want to read anymore because they make you forget the Posting Guidelines. It's a good idea for the ol' BP too. I post on a board other than this one and I use it so my experience is better. It's up to the individual and if it's something that can help, it's a tool that's available.

EmBleve

Cosmo wrote:

From my observations regarding this tragedy... and from reading the comments regarding as such... some people CRAVE/NEED attention, regardless of the cost.

Bottom line, yes, I think so as well to an extent. Furthermore, he is reveling in it, all things considered.

dimitrispearljam

hedonist wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

i foe you??

Well now...this made me smile in the midst of such heaviness

just found the next line for why now u dont bitching thread :P
and yes..this is to much that happed..its really really sad

EmBleve

comebackgirl wrote:

I'm interested to see if the school has any more information on his most recent functioning. Like I said, his withdrawal from the Ph.D. program could have been evidence of his decompensation, but there's not enough information about his yet.

My thoughts exactly.

pandora

g under p wrote:

pandora wrote:

g under p wrote:

Good for you that you can show empathy, you appear to have a very big heart. My question to you Pandora would be....would you show the same empathy if your grandchild or son or husband was in that theatre and was killed by this shooter?

Peace

Yes he has a mental illness, victims of his shooting spree have empathy.

It is my opinion that he is not an evil person seeking personal gratification or gain,
it is my opinion he is sick.

I would be broken by the fact that he was unable to get help before
he killed and wounded. That my loved one could have been saved if only...

I know all to well in my personal life experience that this is the cause
for so much pain and suffering ...
the inability to get help until after violence.

Pandora...

Yes he has a mental illness, victims of his shooting spree have empathy.

Is this a yes to my question that you would have empathy for the shooter if he had killed your son in that movie theatre? In your opinion he has a mental illness and is NOT evil without a proper mental evaluation done at this time. I hope you have EXPERIENCED 100's of these cases in order to come up with such a quick opinionated decision.

victims of his shooting spree have empathy.

May I ask how the hell do you know this....is this ALL of the victims or just a few? Have you heard or seen interviews of the the victims to come up with yet another opinion?

I would be broken by the fact that he was unable to get help before
he killed and wounded. That my loved one could have been saved if only...

I know all to well in my personal life experience that this is the cause
for so much pain and suffering ...
the inability to get help until after violence.

Again, how do you know he was trying to getting help...did you read that somewhere, was that info in a previous evaluation if so please produce such an eval. I think he was far more concern about getting his ammo, guns and setting his pre-plans for this shooting spree than ever having any thoughts of getting mental help.

So it appears what you might be saying there is that he has found relief from his apparent despair by going out planning and executing a killing spree in order to get the much needed mental help you feel he needs BEFORE a proper mental eval. That appears to be somewhat tragic and backwards but that's your opinion.

My experience in mental illness is just a short time working at Glenside Psychiatric Hospital just outside of Boston in Jamaica, Mass. I worked in all three wards locked (much more interesting and focused place to work...a place we worked on the worst psychiatric cases) unlocked ward and thevoluntary\involuntary ward. I hope you can follow up on a few of my concerns.

Peace

How do you get from my words that he was seeking help?

I have heard his victims say they have empathy for him...
some of his victims of course not all :? and yes on TV interviews.

And no I am not saying he found relief in his actions, quite the opposite.

After working in a facility one would think you would have more knowledge
of mental illness and not apply logic to a victim of disease
who is not living in a real and logical world like the rest of us.