Or do you mean like all the facts I provided that you had nothing to say about?
I'd listen to Thirty Bills unpaid if I were you.. Throw some common sense into this equation for once.
there is no way "we" here in the forum to play the doctors and do diagnose from our home about this guy mind...
no opinion has any value at this matter..with i heard,i know,i read ,cant have an opinion about if he has mental pro or not
there are specialist for this job that court probably will order to do it..
attorneys will play their roles and etc..
..no matter if he has mental pro,or he just like to shoot people and he is a cold murderer
one thing is for sure..he cant never ,ever again must be a free man in the streets..
he is dangerous,and im pretty sure the authorities there at USA,will do the right thing..
People have opinions from past experiences, from drawing similarities, from knowledge
of a particular subject.
It's only opinions...
We certainly have some here on this subject who have opinions ...
he is a cold blooded killer with a hate for people, blood lust when no one knows that.
It's just an opinion.
Seems it's more those making something out of a difference of opinion ...
i use the word or cold murderer or has mental problem
and is an opinion that has no base no matter which of 2 is the truth..
i cant do diagnose from the sofa of my house just watching the news.
if some of you in the thread can do a diagnose via tv screen,...
then,all the doctors out there that see patient in PERSON every day must go burn their diplomas..
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
]which rights are you talking about? This is going to sound antagonistic, but I don't mean it that way...I don't see legal gun owners illegally searching and seizing private property, I don't see gun owners restricting free speech, I don't see gun owners forcing army soldiers to be quartered at your houses, I don't see gun owners forcing you to testify against yourself, I don't see gun owners restricting your access to a speedy and public trial, I don't see gun owners stopping you from a jury trial in civil court...etc etc etc...I realize all of our inalienable human rights aren't enumerated in the constitution as stated in the 9th, so again I must ask, which right do legal gun owners trump with enumerated right to bear arms?
One of the largest mass murders in US history was carried out with legally purchased chemicals...another one was carried out with gasoline...guns aren't first on the list when I think of problems in the country...
mikepegg44
My assumption when people use language like that is that they mean the right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" that is denied them when they are killed by a gun. It's an argument that presumes its conclusion, so I don't pay it much mind.
Or perhaps they meant, "Why do americans get so fired up about the 2nd amendment and not the 7th, 11th, or 13th?". That's a more interesting question, though I think it the answer has alot to do with how directly and immediately the impact of a change to the 2nd amendment would be felt. Versus, say, a change to the 5th amendment. How often are we called to act as a witness against ourselves in court?
0
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
my my what to say ...
have you thought this more than once and been wrong?
Sounds familiar. It is rather insulting when one is committed to their beliefs
and not compromised, again answer in the first line.
For me there is evil and there is ill.
Killing for personal gratification, greed, lust, revenge, joy, fun is entirely
different than killing from a place of loss of reality insanity.
Because I know loss of reality insanity, I must forgive those who are ill
even if I were the victim of loss. I would have no choice and that is based in logic
not empathy.
horse doodoo
you have all the choices in the world
sure forgiveness they say weighs heavy not allowing healing
screw it aint forgiving shit if someone burst into a theater and killed a dozen people one being my brother, mom, dad, girlfriend, whichever.
i'd have to lock myself up to avoid blowing that person's head off which would put me in prison possibly. but i am not going to forgive anyone for killing my people. i will refuse to understand them
pandora,
they just murdered my wife and son. why the hell would i forgive that monster? illness made him do it! says the doctors. i do not give a shit what they have to say. less than a week after the event i aint ready to forgive and may never ever forgive and understand their cruelty which ruined my life
Chadwick i totally understand your point....my ex committed adultry i forgave her for that why because it was done between the two of us, i can handle that. However, she also abused my daughter when she was 3 years old because we were separated and she wanted us to get back together while putting my daughter through some terrrible horrors. I gained full custody except for 1 month in the summers.
I never forgave her for the abuse of my daughter and now she acts as if it never happened. i have no empathy for her to abuse an innocent 3 year old who was terrified for 3 months till I found out and put an immediate stop to it. This summer will be the very last regardless of what the courts has written...my daughter cannot stand to go to her so next summer and ones after she will stay with my mother and she my ex can visit.
There's just some things one has to say no I can't tolerate what you have done because to this day my daughter is still terrified of the dark and many other things I can't say here...it'll probably last the rest of her life.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"
Guns take this away, as well as this...
"First Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
So, I respectfully disagree.
And again, I'm not saying no guns...but we need to limit what types, what types of ammo, and how they are acquired. Hell, I can only buy so many Claritin-D's in a certain period of time...why not ammo? Hunters really need a stockpile?
You work in the field so you must know the nature of the illness prevents those
from seeking help. There is no rational being inside their head. Gone with a purpose
that is nothing like theirs before the onset.
So glad to see we have now reached a conclusion that he has a mental illness and have gone a step further to apparently have diagnosed 'the illness'!
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"
Guns take this away, as well as this...
Like I said, the argument presumes the conclusion. "Guns take this away" presumes the conclusion that guns are at fault, rather than the killer holding them. Death takes those rights away, regardless of the means. Even if you don't agree, it's still a core part of the debate that you cannot ignore just because you don't agree.
Furthermore, many believe legally owning a gun enhances those rights via their enhancement of the owner's personal security. If I am unable to defend myself or my family in the face of unwarranted aggression, my/our life and liberty are potentially greatly diminished.
While some on this board entertain notions of reaching out to this young man, having coffee with him, and engaging in long fireside chats while occassionaly holding up cards with ink blots to see if they can speculate what makes him tick...
does anyone here feel like I do when I see the weirdo sitting in court with drool running out the side of his mouth... feel like taking your fist and smashing it into his nose... really hard? Or taking your size 12s and delivering a sharp, upward blow into the guys teeny weeny nuts (given his level of cowardice this is an assumption)?
I'm not buying into this guy's act.
How many times in the previous days has he 'stared into space' as if he's lost his mind? Better run with the act now, buddy. Looks like you're in trouble. Of course, with the right diagnosis and the correct display of behaviours... things will be much more comfortable! And, we all know... there's many itching to put their stamp on him so they can impress all with their education into, what is fair to call, an 'unexact' science.
Let's just call a spade a spade. The guy is a tool. Evil, sick, drunk, stoned, possessed by the devil, whatever... after rearing your heinous self for all to see... just go away (maybe even painfully).
People get the facts, but there are more to the facts than what meets the eye. What is it like to ignore common sense? You know... good old common sense. Like, for example, if there were less guns, there would be less gun violence. At a very minimum, there would be fewer accidental deaths where kids shoot other kids (the 4-5 year old variety). No?
You never bothered to address the very strong counter-point made (by a few people) to your assertion that tough gun laws have done nothing to curb the gun-based violence in Chicago.
The point was... how can these gun laws have their desired effect when, as easy as pie, the people that want them can go across a state line or two and own the weapon of their choice (with a bunch of really cheap ammunition as well)? If the entire country was regulated, access would be more difficult. It just wouldn't be as easy for some idiot to go, "Shit. I'm feeling crappy. Gonna go buy a bunch of guns and shoot a bunch of people."
Unsung,
I've tried twice to get your perspective regarding what I have written. Am I on your ignore list or is it just that you are having a difficult time responding? Again, put slightly differently, if your entire country does not have the same, strict, weapon laws... is it fair to suggest that the efforts of individual states to limit access will be in vain? And, therefore, statistics become meaningless because they do not accurately reflect the true performance of the measures put in place (variables skew results)?
I'm not picking a fight, but you seem to have strong opinions on this subject (the exact opposite of mine) and I am honestly trying to gain a full perspective regarding this issue. At the moment, I am nowhere near your position. Not even an inch.
My issue with the Second Amendment is that it incredibly vague. There is no way that the founding fathers could have foreseen the weaponry available in the 20th and 21st century. Unfortunately, while our technology has advanced considerably, the law seems unable to keep up. If limits on semi-automatic rifles are seen as a fundamental violation of the Second Amendment then why bother ban fully automatic weapons or any other type of weaponry for that matter? Why aren't militias allowed to develop their own nuclear devices, personal armed drones or amass a large quantity of anti-aircraft weaponry? Surely the Second Amendment should allow for this.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"
Guns take this away, as well as this...
Like I said, the argument presumes the conclusion. "Guns take this away" presumes the conclusion that guns are at fault, rather than the killer holding them. Death takes those rights away, regardless of the means. Even if you don't agree, it's still a core part of the debate that you cannot ignore just because you don't agree.
Furthermore, many believe legally owning a gun enhances those rights via their enhancement of the owner's personal security. If I am unable to defend myself or my family in the face of unwarranted aggression, my/our life and liberty are potentially greatly diminished.
You are doing the same thing when you say " If I am unable to defend myself or my family in the face of unwarranted aggression..." presuming the conclusion, heck, you are presuming the beginning.
I see what your are saying, just disagree. I'm ok with you defending yourself in your house. I just think we need to limit what type of gun you can have in that house, what type and how much ammo you can have, and I think you need to keep it in your house.
How many times in the previous days has he 'stared into space' as if he's lost his mind? Better run with the act now, buddy. Looks like you're in trouble.
I would imagine he has some interesting thoughts going through his head to say the least. Maybe he is reflecting on how it felt to shoot a defenseless woman in the face or to murder a 6 year old in cold blood. Maybe he's going back over how it felt to hold that AR-15 and spew off dozens of rounds into innocent people in mere seconds. Maybe it will drive him to simply put himself down. I'm surprised we havent heard anything about him being on suicide watch. How can a person live with those images in their mind? :?
How many times in the previous days has he 'stared into space' as if he's lost his mind? Better run with the act now, buddy. Looks like you're in trouble.
I would imagine he has some interesting thoughts going through his head to say the least. Maybe he is reflecting on how it felt to shoot a defenseless woman in the face or to murder a 6 year old in cold blood. Maybe he's going back over how it felt to hold that AR-15 and spew off dozens of rounds into innocent people in mere seconds. Maybe it will drive him to simply put himself down. I'm surprised we havent heard anything about him being on suicide watch. How can a person live with those images in their mind? :?
who knows? maybe he loves reliving those moments in his mind. maybe that's what kept him going while he was building up his legal arsenal over the last 4 months.
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
I'm also interested in knowing if a mental illness is part of this.
It does seem like at least some help would have been available to him. I went on the university website to check out the counseling services and they expressly name that they provide counseling services for schizophrenia. They could be the link to hospitalization or a higher level of care. From what I heard, he was in a class of 6 students, 35 total in the program. They're all linked to a faculty mentor and they pay close attention to students that are struggling in any manner. The DPT program at my college is like that and they will immediately refer students if there is even a hint of concern and at times have requested mental health evals to determine if they can continue in the program. The shooter's school is not disclosing any information at this point, so we're all left to wonder.
You work in the field so you must know the nature of the illness prevents those
from seeking help. There is no rational being inside their head. Gone with a purpose
that is nothing like theirs before the onset.
The gun range owner had a slim chance to alert someone before this happened.
I do not fault him of course. He had his wits about him to not allow
him near the gun range until he met with him in person.
This young man's answering machine message so very disturbing.
There were signs warnings but none heeded. People afraid to get involved,
people afraid to step on another's rights. Family who suspect but without means.
This man so intrigued with the brain, ironic it took him down.
Perhaps there is a clue there as well.
Yes - that's where the faculty would come in. It would be hard to miss a psychotic break in a class of 6. The school mentioned that they rush in to provide support if a student is floundering in any manner, but they would not say if that was a factor in this particular case.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
People have opinions from past experiences, from drawing similarities, from knowledge
of a particular subject.
It's only opinions...
We certainly have some here on this subject who have opinions ...
he is a cold blooded killer with a hate for people, blood lust when no one knows that.
It's just an opinion.
Seems it's more those making something out of a difference of opinion ...
i use the word or cold murderer or has mental problem
and is an opinion that has no base no matter which of 2 is the truth..
i cant do diagnose from the sofa of my house just watching the news.
if some of you in the thread can do a diagnose via tv screen,...
then,all the doctors out there that see patient in PERSON every day must go burn their diplomas..
oh Dimi really? you of all people know you judge situations as well
and give opinions speculate etc...
this based on your life experiences knowledge
that is all this is and it it based on the same critea everyones uses to do just that,
to have an opinion or speculate.
It is just opinions like I said seems difference of opinion to be more of the deciding factor.
In my opinion a killer with mental disease is not a cold blood murderer and to this layman
he appears to fit the bill of a young man with onset mental illness.
This subject that should be addressed , as in the Gifford shooting,
Loughner who is now diagnosed after the fact.
What do we take from that?
Lets do something before the fact, make help readily available for loved ones to stop
this from happening in the future.
We are learning much about illness through these incidents
just as we are learning about pedophiles and how the prey.
Awareness and action is needed to get help to those who need it
before victims are made.
I understand having the right to a weapon for defense ... but when the weapon has the world "assault" preceding it ... how does "assault" correlate to "defend". :think:
even if he was mentally ill he still could have easily gotten a gun...
"The mentally ill can still buy guns with alarming ease because nearly 90% of U.S. states don’t forward all mental health records to a national database that is used to run background checks on piece purchasers.
That’s among the findings of a new report by the anti-gun advocacy group Mayors Against Illegal Guns.
It showed that 23 states submitted fewer than 100 mental health histories to the National Instant Criminal Background Check. The database has blocked more than 1.6 million gun-permit applications and sales to felons since it was created in 1999.
So even though a judge had found Virginia Tech shooter Seung Hui Cho to be mentally ill two years before his 2007 rampage, that information never made it into the database, the report shows.
Cho was able to pass several background checks to buy the guns he used to kill 32 people and then end his life.
That massacre prompted passage of a law by Congress that gives states enticements to send stats on mental health and drug abuse information to the database.
But even so, the information is not as available as it should be, Mayors Against Illegal Guns says.
The study found that another 17 states submitted fewer than ten mental health histories, and 4 submitted none at all.
It revealed that 43 states submitted fewer than 10 drug records to the database and 33 states submitted none at all.
But federal agencies turned out to be the worst offenders.
Some 52 of the 62 agencies the FBI keeps data on have provided no mental health records to the database.
The vast majority of federal mental health records in the database came from just one agency, the Department of Veterans Affairs. Only three federal agencies supplied information on drug abuse for the background checks.
Tucson killer Jared Loughner, who killed six people and nearly took the life of Arizona Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords in January, was able to pass several background checks to buy his guns, including a Glock he used in January, 2011.
He sailed through the system despite a prior drug-related arrest, an admission of drug use while in the U.S. Army and a suspension from a community college for bizarre behavior."
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
People have opinions from past experiences, from drawing similarities, from knowledge
of a particular subject.
It's only opinions...
We certainly have some here on this subject who have opinions ...
he is a cold blooded killer with a hate for people, blood lust when no one knows that.
It's just an opinion.
Seems it's more those making something out of a difference of opinion ...
i use the word or cold murderer or has mental problem
and is an opinion that has no base no matter which of 2 is the truth..
i cant do diagnose from the sofa of my house just watching the news.
if some of you in the thread can do a diagnose via tv screen,...
then,all the doctors out there that see patient in PERSON every day must go burn their diplomas..
oh Dimi really? you of all people know you judge situations as well
and give opinions speculate etc...
this based on your life experiences knowledge
that is all this is and it it based on the same critea everyones uses to do just that,
to have an opinion or speculate.
It is just opinions like I said seems difference of opinion to be more of the deciding factor.
In my opinion a killer with mental disease is not a cold blood murderer and to this layman
he appears to fit the bill of a young man with onset mental illness.
This subject that should be addressed , as in the Gifford shooting,
Loughner who is now diagnosed after the fact.
What do we take from that?
Lets do something before the fact, make help readily available for loved ones to stop
this from happening in the future.
We are learning much about illness through these incidents
just as we are learning about pedophiles and how the prey.
Awareness and action is needed to get help to those who need it
before victims are made.
read the article i just posted. these mentally ill people shouldn't be able to buy guns at least. surely you agree with that...?
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
horse doodoo
you have all the choices in the world
sure forgiveness they say weighs heavy not allowing healing
screw it aint forgiving shit if someone burst into a theater and killed a dozen people one being my brother, mom, dad, girlfriend, whichever.
i'd have to lock myself up to avoid blowing that person's head off which would put me in prison possibly. but i am not going to forgive anyone for killing my people. i will refuse to understand them
pandora,
they just murdered my wife and son. why the hell would i forgive that monster? illness made him do it! says the doctors. i do not give a shit what they have to say. less than a week after the event i aint ready to forgive and may never ever forgive and understand their cruelty which ruined my life
Chadwick i totally understand your point....my ex committed adultry i forgave her for that why because it was done between the two of us, i can handle that. However, she also abused my daughter when she was 3 years old because we were separated and she wanted us to get back together while putting my daughter through some terrrible horrors. I gained full custody except for 1 month in the summers.
I never forgave her for the abuse of my daughter and now she acts as if it never happened. i have no empathy for her to abuse an innocent 3 year old who was terrified for 3 months till I found out and put an immediate stop to it. This summer will be the very last regardless of what the courts has written...my daughter cannot stand to go to her so next summer and ones after she will stay with my mother and she my ex can visit.
There's just some things one has to say no I can't tolerate what you have done because to this day my daughter is still terrified of the dark and many other things I can't say here...it'll probably last the rest of her life.
Peace
I shouldn't pursue this maybe and it is of personal nature though you volunteered
Was she found to have a mental illness that caused her actions?
Chadwick i totally understand your point....my ex committed adultry i forgave her for that why because it was done between the two of us, i can handle that. However, she also abused my daughter when she was 3 years old because we were separated and she wanted us to get back together while putting my daughter through some terrrible horrors. I gained full custody except for 1 month in the summers.
I never forgave her for the abuse of my daughter and now she acts as if it never happened. i have no empathy for her to abuse an innocent 3 year old who was terrified for 3 months till I found out and put an immediate stop to it. This summer will be the very last regardless of what the courts has written...my daughter cannot stand to go to her so next summer and ones after she will stay with my mother and she my ex can visit.
There's just some things one has to say no I can't tolerate what you have done because to this day my daughter is still terrified of the dark and many other things I can't say here...it'll probably last the rest of her life.
Peace
I'm so sorry this happened. And though it shouldn't need to be said, bravo to you for being a good, safekeeping father to your little girl.
I understand having the right to a weapon for defense ... but when the weapon has the world "assault" preceding it ... how does "assault" correlate to "defend". :think:
Dont forget that 50 cailber sniper rifle that can shoot down helicopters that you can buy legally at age 18. Who doesnt need a sniper for defense? You can see people attacking you from miles away!
read the article i just posted. these mentally ill people shouldn't be able to buy guns at least. surely you agree with that...?
I am here to address mental illness and how we can stop those ill from hurting others, by whatever means they choose. That is ... treat the individual.
An ill person will get a gun to carry out their purpose legal or otherwise.
This killer may have had some very recent warning signs
but nothing in his background would have kept him from getting guns,
legal or otherwise.
I understand having the right to a weapon for defense ... but when the weapon has the world "assault" preceding it ... how does "assault" correlate to "defend". :think:
Dont forget that 50 cailber sniper rifle that can shoot down helicopters that you can buy legally at age 18. Who doesnt need a sniper for defense? You can see people attacking you from miles away!
In fairness, the attacker does have the advantage of air superiority. Self defence is an expensive game.
read the article i just posted. these mentally ill people shouldn't be able to buy guns at least. surely you agree with that...?
I am here to address mental illness and how we can stop those ill from hurting others, by whatever means they choose. That is ... treat the individual.
An ill person will get a gun to carry out their purpose legal or otherwise.
This killer may have had some very recent warning signs
but nothing in his background would have kept him from getting guns,
legal or otherwise.
so you don't have a problem with the va tech shooter being able to have a gun even though he had at least a 2 year history of mental illness?
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
Like I said, the argument presumes the conclusion. "Guns take this away" presumes the conclusion that guns are at fault, rather than the killer holding them. Death takes those rights away, regardless of the means. Even if you don't agree, it's still a core part of the debate that you cannot ignore just because you don't agree.
Furthermore, many believe legally owning a gun enhances those rights via their enhancement of the owner's personal security. If I am unable to defend myself or my family in the face of unwarranted aggression, my/our life and liberty are potentially greatly diminished.
You are doing the same thing when you say " If I am unable to defend myself or my family in the face of unwarranted aggression..." presuming the conclusion, heck, you are presuming the beginning.
I see what your are saying, just disagree. I'm ok with you defending yourself in your house. I just think we need to limit what type of gun you can have in that house, what type and how much ammo you can have, and I think you need to keep it in your house.
I'm willing to entertain the idea that I'm not being entirely internally consistent, but I'm not clear exactly what you're referring to here.
Are you arguing that I'm presuming that having a gun = my family is safer? Then do you believe the converse? That keeping me unarmed actually makes my family safer when confronted with an armed intruder? I'd be very interested in hearing your justification for that.
As for presuming my "beginning", the only thing I can figure out from that is that perhaps you're saying that I'm presuming that cincybearcat wants to take all my firearms away, whereas he really just wants to limit their type, ammo, and allowable location? Meaning I'm allowed to protect my family with a firearm, if necessary, at home but nowhere else? Please elaborate.
Comments
Of course he is a coward. He went into a movie theater and began shooting people, innocent people just watching a movie and eating popcorn.
A coward picks on those that are vulnerable and bullies them. He's a coward.
Or do you mean like all the facts I provided that you had nothing to say about?
I'd listen to Thirty Bills unpaid if I were you.. Throw some common sense into this equation for once.
and is an opinion that has no base no matter which of 2 is the truth..
i cant do diagnose from the sofa of my house just watching the news.
if some of you in the thread can do a diagnose via tv screen,...
then,all the doctors out there that see patient in PERSON every day must go burn their diplomas..
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Or perhaps they meant, "Why do americans get so fired up about the 2nd amendment and not the 7th, 11th, or 13th?". That's a more interesting question, though I think it the answer has alot to do with how directly and immediately the impact of a change to the 2nd amendment would be felt. Versus, say, a change to the 5th amendment. How often are we called to act as a witness against ourselves in court?
Chadwick i totally understand your point....my ex committed adultry i forgave her for that why because it was done between the two of us, i can handle that. However, she also abused my daughter when she was 3 years old because we were separated and she wanted us to get back together while putting my daughter through some terrrible horrors. I gained full custody except for 1 month in the summers.
I never forgave her for the abuse of my daughter and now she acts as if it never happened. i have no empathy for her to abuse an innocent 3 year old who was terrified for 3 months till I found out and put an immediate stop to it. This summer will be the very last regardless of what the courts has written...my daughter cannot stand to go to her so next summer and ones after she will stay with my mother and she my ex can visit.
There's just some things one has to say no I can't tolerate what you have done because to this day my daughter is still terrified of the dark and many other things I can't say here...it'll probably last the rest of her life.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Declaration of independence...
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"
Guns take this away, as well as this...
"First Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
So, I respectfully disagree.
And again, I'm not saying no guns...but we need to limit what types, what types of ammo, and how they are acquired. Hell, I can only buy so many Claritin-D's in a certain period of time...why not ammo? Hunters really need a stockpile?
So glad to see we have now reached a conclusion that he has a mental illness and have gone a step further to apparently have diagnosed 'the illness'!
You are making a huge number of assumptions!
Furthermore, many believe legally owning a gun enhances those rights via their enhancement of the owner's personal security. If I am unable to defend myself or my family in the face of unwarranted aggression, my/our life and liberty are potentially greatly diminished.
does anyone here feel like I do when I see the weirdo sitting in court with drool running out the side of his mouth... feel like taking your fist and smashing it into his nose... really hard? Or taking your size 12s and delivering a sharp, upward blow into the guys teeny weeny nuts (given his level of cowardice this is an assumption)?
I'm not buying into this guy's act.
How many times in the previous days has he 'stared into space' as if he's lost his mind? Better run with the act now, buddy. Looks like you're in trouble. Of course, with the right diagnosis and the correct display of behaviours... things will be much more comfortable! And, we all know... there's many itching to put their stamp on him so they can impress all with their education into, what is fair to call, an 'unexact' science.
Let's just call a spade a spade. The guy is a tool. Evil, sick, drunk, stoned, possessed by the devil, whatever... after rearing your heinous self for all to see... just go away (maybe even painfully).
Unsung,
I've tried twice to get your perspective regarding what I have written. Am I on your ignore list or is it just that you are having a difficult time responding? Again, put slightly differently, if your entire country does not have the same, strict, weapon laws... is it fair to suggest that the efforts of individual states to limit access will be in vain? And, therefore, statistics become meaningless because they do not accurately reflect the true performance of the measures put in place (variables skew results)?
I'm not picking a fight, but you seem to have strong opinions on this subject (the exact opposite of mine) and I am honestly trying to gain a full perspective regarding this issue. At the moment, I am nowhere near your position. Not even an inch.
You are doing the same thing when you say " If I am unable to defend myself or my family in the face of unwarranted aggression..." presuming the conclusion, heck, you are presuming the beginning.
I see what your are saying, just disagree. I'm ok with you defending yourself in your house. I just think we need to limit what type of gun you can have in that house, what type and how much ammo you can have, and I think you need to keep it in your house.
I would imagine he has some interesting thoughts going through his head to say the least. Maybe he is reflecting on how it felt to shoot a defenseless woman in the face or to murder a 6 year old in cold blood. Maybe he's going back over how it felt to hold that AR-15 and spew off dozens of rounds into innocent people in mere seconds. Maybe it will drive him to simply put himself down. I'm surprised we havent heard anything about him being on suicide watch. How can a person live with those images in their mind? :?
And as far as empathy goes, mine is and remains with the people whose lives were mowed down by a sick fucking coward.
who knows? maybe he loves reliving those moments in his mind. maybe that's what kept him going while he was building up his legal arsenal over the last 4 months.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
oh Dimi really? you of all people know you judge situations as well
and give opinions speculate etc...
this based on your life experiences knowledge
that is all this is and it it based on the same critea everyones uses to do just that,
to have an opinion or speculate.
It is just opinions like I said seems difference of opinion to be more of the deciding factor.
In my opinion a killer with mental disease is not a cold blood murderer and to this layman
he appears to fit the bill of a young man with onset mental illness.
This subject that should be addressed , as in the Gifford shooting,
Loughner who is now diagnosed after the fact.
What do we take from that?
Lets do something before the fact, make help readily available for loved ones to stop
this from happening in the future.
We are learning much about illness through these incidents
just as we are learning about pedophiles and how the prey.
Awareness and action is needed to get help to those who need it
before victims are made.
"The mentally ill can still buy guns with alarming ease because nearly 90% of U.S. states don’t forward all mental health records to a national database that is used to run background checks on piece purchasers.
That’s among the findings of a new report by the anti-gun advocacy group Mayors Against Illegal Guns.
It showed that 23 states submitted fewer than 100 mental health histories to the National Instant Criminal Background Check. The database has blocked more than 1.6 million gun-permit applications and sales to felons since it was created in 1999.
So even though a judge had found Virginia Tech shooter Seung Hui Cho to be mentally ill two years before his 2007 rampage, that information never made it into the database, the report shows.
Cho was able to pass several background checks to buy the guns he used to kill 32 people and then end his life.
That massacre prompted passage of a law by Congress that gives states enticements to send stats on mental health and drug abuse information to the database.
But even so, the information is not as available as it should be, Mayors Against Illegal Guns says.
The study found that another 17 states submitted fewer than ten mental health histories, and 4 submitted none at all.
It revealed that 43 states submitted fewer than 10 drug records to the database and 33 states submitted none at all.
But federal agencies turned out to be the worst offenders.
Some 52 of the 62 agencies the FBI keeps data on have provided no mental health records to the database.
The vast majority of federal mental health records in the database came from just one agency, the Department of Veterans Affairs. Only three federal agencies supplied information on drug abuse for the background checks.
Tucson killer Jared Loughner, who killed six people and nearly took the life of Arizona Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords in January, was able to pass several background checks to buy his guns, including a Glock he used in January, 2011.
He sailed through the system despite a prior drug-related arrest, an admission of drug use while in the U.S. Army and a suspension from a community college for bizarre behavior."
why the police and military have them yes?
read the article i just posted. these mentally ill people shouldn't be able to buy guns at least. surely you agree with that...?
Was she found to have a mental illness that caused her actions?
Dont forget that 50 cailber sniper rifle that can shoot down helicopters that you can buy legally at age 18. Who doesnt need a sniper for defense? You can see people attacking you from miles away!
by whatever means they choose. That is ... treat the individual.
An ill person will get a gun to carry out their purpose legal or otherwise.
This killer may have had some very recent warning signs
but nothing in his background would have kept him from getting guns,
legal or otherwise.
In fairness, the attacker does have the advantage of air superiority. Self defence is an expensive game.
A year old, but interesting data.
so you don't have a problem with the va tech shooter being able to have a gun even though he had at least a 2 year history of mental illness?
was it Chicago and NY, they are not helping at all against gun violence.
Is this true?
Are you arguing that I'm presuming that having a gun = my family is safer? Then do you believe the converse? That keeping me unarmed actually makes my family safer when confronted with an armed intruder? I'd be very interested in hearing your justification for that.
As for presuming my "beginning", the only thing I can figure out from that is that perhaps you're saying that I'm presuming that cincybearcat wants to take all my firearms away, whereas he really just wants to limit their type, ammo, and allowable location? Meaning I'm allowed to protect my family with a firearm, if necessary, at home but nowhere else? Please elaborate.