Whats going wrong with the world? More shootings

unsung

JonnyPistachio wrote:

However, CometoTX makes a point...maybe a canon like this AR-15 shouldnt be available to just anyone. Did you see my quote up above about the fact that the USA is unique in that we allow our civilians access to military grade weapons in some instances?

What weapons out of a normal semi-auto pistol does the public have access to that the military uses on a regular basis?

AzWicker

comebackgirl wrote:

What is dangerous is to state that someone is mentally ill when there is not any evidence to support that at this time.

He dyed his hair red, calls himself the joker and shot up a batman movie showing in a theater=mental illness

chadwick

why does a person gotta be mentally ill to do acts like this? why can't the guy be a stone cold killer? i view it like this... he wanted to be in a live full on video game where he was fully in charge. he does not care if he murders everyone in his path because he does not give a fuck. he is not some victim of society where he fell through the cracks...no!

he is a calculating. he is outrageous. he is seeking unreal/huge attention.

i say our president of the united states go visit with this guy. i say that barak obama tell him as follows.

you are getting almost zero publicity. no one is going to remember your name. you are going to work so fucking hard in unreal heat & cold that you will wish & pray you were not alive. but we will not allow such nonsense. you are going to be awake some 20 hrs a day for the rest of your natural days. you are crushing rock and digging ditching in 104 degree weather. you are not an interesting guy! you are a sick fuck!

not one single person will ever make a movie or write a book about your tales ever as long as i can stop it!

as a country we are uniting like none other. your days of joy & pleasure are shut the fuck down from here on out.

i hope you like basic nutrition because fine dining is over. snack time is over. your favorite meals are unavaliable. ice cold water after working all day long? no. you get room temperature water. no hot tea with honey. no coffee with cream & sugar. zero cookies, zero cakes, no fucking pies....ever.

the list goes on...

AzWicker

Hinn wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

After seeing this:
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/ ... 4#48283194

I give up. All Americans should have and pack as many guns as they want, wherever they want. :? We have no hope. :fp:

I'm strongly considering never to hit up shows in the States again. I knew this all already, nothing new there, but seriously...

This isn't only a US problem, Norway just had a guy kill 91 people.

pandora

AzWicker wrote:

Hinn wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

After seeing this:
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/ ... 4#48283194

I give up. All Americans should have and pack as many guns as they want, wherever they want. :? We have no hope. :fp:

I'm strongly considering never to hit up shows in the States again. I knew this all already, nothing new there, but seriously...

This isn't only a US problem, Norway just had a guy kill 91 people.

exactly ...

pandora wrote:

Yes worldwide

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns- ... 1812.story

Timeline: Mass shooting incidents in last 25 years

(Reuters) - Here is a timeline of some of the worst shooting incidents carried out by one or two gunmen around the world in the last 25 years:

March 13, 1996 - BRITAIN - Gunman Thomas Hamilton burst into a primary school in the Scottish town of Dunblane and shot dead 16 children and their teacher before killing himself.

April 28, 1996 - AUSTRALIA - Martin Bryant unleashed modern Australia's worst mass murder when he shot dead 35 people at the Port Arthur tourist site in the southern state of Tasmania.

April 1999 - UNITED STATES - Two heavily-armed teenagers went on a rampage at Columbine High School in Littleton, Denver, shooting 13 students and staff before taking their own lives.

July 1999 - UNITED STATES - A gunman killed nine people at two brokerages in Atlanta, after apparently killing his wife and two children. He committed suicide five hours later.

June 2001 - NEPAL - Eight members of the Nepalese Royal family were killed in a palace massacre by Crown Prince Dipendra who later turned a gun on himself and died few days later. His youngest brother also died later raising the death toll to 10.

April 26, 2002 - GERMANY - In Erfurt, eastern Germany, 19-year-old Robert Steinhauser opened fire after saying he was not going to take a math test. He killed 12 teachers, a secretary, two pupils and a policeman at the Gutenberg Gymnasium, before killing himself.

October 2002 - UNITED STATES - John Muhammad and Lee Malvo killed 10 people in sniper-style shooting deaths that terrorized the Washington, D.C., area.

April 16, 2007 - USA - Virginia Tech, a university in Blacksburg, Virginia, became the site of the deadliest rampage in U.S. history when a gunman killed 32 people and himself.

November 7, 2007 - FINLAND - Pekka-Eric Auvinen killed six fellow students, the school nurse, the principal and himself with a handgun at the Jokela High School near Helsinki.

September 23, 2008 - FINLAND - Student Matti Saari opened fire in a vocational school in Kauhajoki in northwest Finland, killing nine other students and one male staff member before killing himself.

March 11, 2009 - GERMANY - A 17-year-old gunman dressed in combat gear killed nine students and three teachers at a school near Stuttgart. He also killed one other person at a nearby clinic. He was later killed in a shoot-out with police. Two additional passers-by were killed and two policemen seriously injured, bringing the death toll to 16 including the gunman.

June 2, 2010 - BRITAIN - Gunman Derrick Bird opened fire on people in towns across the rural county of Cumbria. Twelve people were killed and 11 injured. Bird also killed himself.

April 9, 2011 - NETHERLANDS - Tristan van der Vlis opened fire in the Ridderhof mall in Alphen aan den Rijn, south of Amsterdam, killing six before turning the gun on himself.

July 22, 2011 - NORWAY - Police seize a gunman who killed 69 people at a youth summer camp of Norway's ruling political party, on the small, holiday island of Utoeya. Anders Behring Breivik is later charged with the killings, as well as with an earlier bombing in Oslo which killed eight people. The trial ended last month with Breivik saying that his bombing and shooting rampage was necessary to defend the country - prompting a walk-out by relatives of his victims.

December 13, 2011 - BELGIUM - Gunman Nordine Armani killed three people, including a 17-month-old toddler, wounding 121 in a central square in the eastern city of Liege, before shooting himself. The next day Belgian investigators found the body of a woman in warehouse used by the gunman raising the death toll, including the killer, to five.

July 20, 2012 - UNITED STATES - A masked gunman killed 14 people and wounded 50 others when he opened fire on moviegoers at a showing of new Batman film "The Dark Knight Rises" in the city of Denver.

ComeToTX

AzWicker wrote:

Hinn wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

After seeing this:
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/ ... 4#48283194

I give up. All Americans should have and pack as many guns as they want, wherever they want. :? We have no hope. :fp:

I'm strongly considering never to hit up shows in the States again. I knew this all already, nothing new there, but seriously...

This isn't only a US problem, Norway just had a guy kill 91 people.

It happens here a lot more often.

josevolution

We can sit here and debate till the next time this happens again and it will and we all know nothing will come of this, so by next month or next yr this will just be another episode in a long list that will keep on multiplying get used to it and just be vigil when in crowds .....Rest assured this will happen again .

JonnyPistachio

unsung wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

However, CometoTX makes a point...maybe a canon like this AR-15 shouldnt be available to just anyone. Did you see my quote up above about the fact that the USA is unique in that we allow our civilians access to military grade weapons in some instances?

What weapons out of a normal semi-auto pistol does the public have access to that the military uses on a regular basis?

Again, you're missing the point. Those details arent what's important. The point is, why is something with this level of killing power (similar to military firepower) available to the public?
I dont know if the AR-15 is currently used by the military, but it was designed for the military
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15

And here's the quote:
"We're different than other cultures," said Dudley Brown, executive director of Rocky Mountain Gun Owners, which advocates for firearms owners' rights. "We do allow Americans to possess the accoutrements that our military generally has."

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/ap/ap/crim ... nal/nP2Gc/

The WHOLE POINT is that the USA might legally allow more firepower than anyone. Why is that? and is it necessary?

JonnyPistachio

...and regarding the availability of these high powered weapons, just scroll down to "Legal status of civilian ownership" on this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15

hmmmm. which country stands out from ALL the rest? Bingo! the USA!

Every single other country has some restrictions. The USA: "There are no federal restrictions on the ownership of AR-15 rifles in the United States."

And, a 5o caliber sniper rifle able to take down helicopters is legal in the US?! :fp:

pandora

EmBleve wrote:

pandora wrote:

I'm certainly not alone in thinking he has a mental illness... turn the TV/ radio on,
I'm addressing the fact if help was more readily available this could have been avoided.

Even if help was 'available', that doesn't mean that he would have fallen into the hands of a mental health professional. I'm not following it very closely at this point, but, last I heard his performance was in the top 5 of his class before he withdrew. He was in his 20s (not 6, under close scrutiny)..antisocial...very smart. Maybe some have an issue with you defending his actions as a mentally ill person when that is not verified.
(sorry...not 'defending' but 'empathizing'.)

correct... I am not defending or condoning but believe in this case mental illness
is the cause, as with the Arizona tragedy. As I said I am not alone.

The problem is he probably would not have sought help because of the nature of the illness.
But family could. It is very hard to get someone mental help until they hurt themselves or others.
It is very difficult to find good help and almost always the financial expense so
absorbant that it is not even a plausible possibility.

But he will get help now just as Loughner is... after the fact.

Fifi_Ireland

AzWicker wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

What is dangerous is to state that someone is mentally ill when there is not any evidence to support that at this time.

He dyed his hair red, calls himself the joker and shot up a batman movie showing in a theater=mental illness

or he planned his defense in advance. If he really thought he was the joker he wouldnt have turned up in full combat gear and he would have painted his face!

Hinn

AzWicker wrote:

Hinn wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

After seeing this:
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/ ... 4#48283194

I give up. All Americans should have and pack as many guns as they want, wherever they want. :? We have no hope. :fp:

I'm strongly considering never to hit up shows in the States again. I knew this all already, nothing new there, but seriously...

This isn't only a US problem, Norway just had a guy kill 91 people.

Fully aware of that. Caught up with a Norwegian friend a week after the event. But unlike the US, there was a full on debate and self-examination of the politics in the aftermath, one that is ongoing, especially with Breivik having only finished his trial in June. It's like they actually wanted to solve the problem, to reduce the risk of this happening again.

Same thing happened in my home country, Australia. It's already been mentioned already in this thread. Port Arthur, 1996. In probably the only act by the enduring conservative government I've fully approved of, the federal and all state governments united to ban and heavily restrict automatic and semiautomatic rifles and shotguns, coupled with a major buyback initiative. Gun-related mass murders in the 16 years since? Zero.

With this? Bugger all will change.

comebackgirl

AzWicker wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

What is dangerous is to state that someone is mentally ill when there is not any evidence to support that at this time.

He dyed his hair red, calls himself the joker and shot up a batman movie showing in a theater=mental illness

AzWicker wrote:

He dyed his hair red, calls himself the joker and shot up a batman movie showing in a theater=mental illness

not necessarily. What would be important to assess is if he truly believes himself to be the joker, if he truly had a break with reality, not just his statement. That has yet to be evaluated. Anyone can say anything and it doesn't mean they truly believe it. The actual shooting is a behavioral criterium that might point to antisocial personality disorder, which is an axis II disorder and not indicitive of psychosis

pandora

comebackgirl wrote:

pandora wrote:

Of course its speculation ... so?

We have that everywhere and even in most of the threads here. Speculation a natural bi product
of life experiences as are our opinions. She was put on the radio to speculate. Most comments
here on this thread are judgmental speculation.

I'm certainly not alone in thinking he has a mental illness... turn the TV/ radio on,
I'm addressing the fact if help was more readily available this could have been avoided.

Well as I said earlier there is a danger in presenting opinions as facts. Of course it makes sense to try to understand why this happened and make sense of it. That's a very human thing to do. What is dangerous is to state that someone is mentally ill when there is not any evidence to support that at this time. I'm sure help was readily available to him. He's probably one of the lucky ones in that regard. Most students can use the school counseling center free of charge. Whether or not they are willing to do it is a whole other ball game.

I know you know mental illness but have you dealt with a cracked mind...
a full blown out of reality episode? Cause this sounds like you are talking depression
or mood disorder.

Again did we learn anything from Loughner? He was an undiagnosed schizophrenic
who plotted and carried out a mass killing. Witnesses said he behaved just as this
guy did, as did the VA Tech killer, detached, emotionless, zombie like.
Just going through the motions emotionless.

I guess if it is dangerous to speculate about him then somebody should tell
the experts on TV and radio. cause boy are they talking mental illness.

EmBleve

comebackgirl wrote:

AzWicker wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

What is dangerous is to state that someone is mentally ill when there is not any evidence to support that at this time.

He dyed his hair red, calls himself the joker and shot up a batman movie showing in a theater=mental illness

AzWicker wrote:

He dyed his hair red, calls himself the joker and shot up a batman movie showing in a theater=mental illness

not necessarily. What would be important to assess is if he truly believes himself to be the joker, if he truly had a break with reality, not just his statement. That has yet to be evaluated. Anyone can say anything and it doesn't mean they truly believe it. The actual shooting is a behavioral criterium that might point to antisocial personality disorder, which is an axis II disorder and not indicitive of psychosis

Yes.

EmBleve

pandora wrote:

I know you know mental illness but have you dealt with a cracked mind...
a full blown out of reality episode? Cause this sounds like you are talking depression
or mood disorder.

I can't speak for cbg, but I know I have dealt with a cracked mind.. as a nurse in a maximum security forensic psych unit, and I also have a master's in forensic psychology. I imagine she does know what she means based on what she says.

comebackgirl

pandora wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

pandora wrote:

Of course its speculation ... so?

We have that everywhere and even in most of the threads here. Speculation a natural bi product
of life experiences as are our opinions. She was put on the radio to speculate. Most comments
here on this thread are judgmental speculation.

I'm certainly not alone in thinking he has a mental illness... turn the TV/ radio on,
I'm addressing the fact if help was more readily available this could have been avoided.

Well as I said earlier there is a danger in presenting opinions as facts. Of course it makes sense to try to understand why this happened and make sense of it. That's a very human thing to do. What is dangerous is to state that someone is mentally ill when there is not any evidence to support that at this time. I'm sure help was readily available to him. He's probably one of the lucky ones in that regard. Most students can use the school counseling center free of charge. Whether or not they are willing to do it is a whole other ball game.

I know you know mental illness but have you dealt with a cracked mind...
a full blown out of reality episode? Cause this sounds like you are talking depression
or mood disorder.

Again did we learn anything from Loughner? He was an undiagnosed schizophrenic
who plotted and carried out a mass killing. Witnesses said he behaved just as this
guy did, as did the VA Tech killer, detached, emotionless, zombie like.
Just going through the motions emotionless.

I guess if it is dangerous to speculate about him then somebody should tell
the experts on TV and radio. cause boy are they talking mental illness.

Yes - I work with the full spectrum of disorders, including psychotic disorders like schizophrenia on a daily basis and I work as part of a behavioral intervention team to identify behaviors of concern and then provide treatment - free of charge to anyone in need.

The detachment could be a lack of empathy, not necessarily psychosis. Not enough info to tell at this point.

I agree Pandiora - the speculation is dangerous. It adds to the stigma and can impact the investigation and prosecution, and yet I understand why they do it.

EmBleve

pandora wrote:

correct... I am not defending or condoning but believe in this case mental illness
is the cause, as with the Arizona tragedy. As I said I am not alone.

The problem is he probably would not have sought help because of the nature of the illness.
But family could. It is very hard to get someone mental help until they hurt themselves or others.
It is very difficult to find good help and almost always the financial expense so
absorbant that it is not even a plausible possibility.

But he will get help now just as Loughner is... after the fact.

what 'mental illness', specifically, do you surmise? Family may not have necessarily sought help, depending upon too many factors to get into now. It is not 'hard' to get someone help, or intervention... the hard part is applying the help to reality/actuality, which in many cases is difficult, if not impossible, depending on the 'nature of the illness'. But again, this is irrelevant in the discussion about this individual, who has no diagnosis at this point.
(edit: along the lines of cbg's post, there is a distinction between being a 'sociopath'--which I would say he is--and having a psychotic disorder. Many people, though, would umbrella either one under 'mentally ill', when they are very different animals).

AndyVanSlyke

pandora wrote:

The problem is he probably would not have sought help because of the nature of the illness.

I like this point. Self-awareness is a very difficult thing to teach someone when it comes to mental health, brain injury, or other mental disorders. Especially if his sense of reality is as distorted.

**I don't know if that's what you meant when you said the nature of the illness. However, throwing my two sense on the matter.

pandora

Why would anyone think someone in a full blown episode, a break from reality,
a schizophrenic seek help at a school counseling center.

Really?

The wouldn't, they couldn't even.
Just like Loughner ... the illness manifests as a purpose.

He will be brain tested ... hollow mask anyone