What is dangerous is to state that someone is mentally ill when there is not any evidence to support that at this time.
He dyed his hair red, calls himself the joker and shot up a batman movie showing in a theater=mental illness
or he planned his defense in advance. If he really thought he was the joker he wouldnt have turned up in full combat gear and he would have painted his face!
I give up. All Americans should have and pack as many guns as they want, wherever they want. :? We have no hope. :fp:
I'm strongly considering never to hit up shows in the States again. I knew this all already, nothing new there, but seriously...
This isn't only a US problem, Norway just had a guy kill 91 people.
Fully aware of that. Caught up with a Norwegian friend a week after the event. But unlike the US, there was a full on debate and self-examination of the politics in the aftermath, one that is ongoing, especially with Breivik having only finished his trial in June. It's like they actually wanted to solve the problem, to reduce the risk of this happening again.
Same thing happened in my home country, Australia. It's already been mentioned already in this thread. Port Arthur, 1996. In probably the only act by the enduring conservative government I've fully approved of, the federal and all state governments united to ban and heavily restrict automatic and semiautomatic rifles and shotguns, coupled with a major buyback initiative. Gun-related mass murders in the 16 years since? Zero.
With this? Bugger all will change.
115 bucks for half a haircut by a novice? I want my money back!
He dyed his hair red, calls himself the joker and shot up a batman movie showing in a theater=mental illness
not necessarily. What would be important to assess is if he truly believes himself to be the joker, if he truly had a break with reality, not just his statement. That has yet to be evaluated. Anyone can say anything and it doesn't mean they truly believe it. The actual shooting is a behavioral criterium that might point to antisocial personality disorder, which is an axis II disorder and not indicitive of psychosis
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
We have that everywhere and even in most of the threads here. Speculation a natural bi product
of life experiences as are our opinions. She was put on the radio to speculate. Most comments
here on this thread are judgmental speculation.
I'm certainly not alone in thinking he has a mental illness... turn the TV/ radio on,
I'm addressing the fact if help was more readily available this could have been avoided.
Well as I said earlier there is a danger in presenting opinions as facts. Of course it makes sense to try to understand why this happened and make sense of it. That's a very human thing to do. What is dangerous is to state that someone is mentally ill when there is not any evidence to support that at this time. I'm sure help was readily available to him. He's probably one of the lucky ones in that regard. Most students can use the school counseling center free of charge. Whether or not they are willing to do it is a whole other ball game.
I know you know mental illness but have you dealt with a cracked mind...
a full blown out of reality episode? Cause this sounds like you are talking depression
or mood disorder.
Again did we learn anything from Loughner? He was an undiagnosed schizophrenic
who plotted and carried out a mass killing. Witnesses said he behaved just as this
guy did, as did the VA Tech killer, detached, emotionless, zombie like.
Just going through the motions emotionless.
I guess if it is dangerous to speculate about him then somebody should tell
the experts on TV and radio. cause boy are they talking mental illness.
He dyed his hair red, calls himself the joker and shot up a batman movie showing in a theater=mental illness
not necessarily. What would be important to assess is if he truly believes himself to be the joker, if he truly had a break with reality, not just his statement. That has yet to be evaluated. Anyone can say anything and it doesn't mean they truly believe it. The actual shooting is a behavioral criterium that might point to antisocial personality disorder, which is an axis II disorder and not indicitive of psychosis
I know you know mental illness but have you dealt with a cracked mind...
a full blown out of reality episode? Cause this sounds like you are talking depression
or mood disorder.
I can't speak for cbg, but I know I have dealt with a cracked mind.. as a nurse in a maximum security forensic psych unit, and I also have a master's in forensic psychology. I imagine she does know what she means based on what she says.
We have that everywhere and even in most of the threads here. Speculation a natural bi product
of life experiences as are our opinions. She was put on the radio to speculate. Most comments
here on this thread are judgmental speculation.
I'm certainly not alone in thinking he has a mental illness... turn the TV/ radio on,
I'm addressing the fact if help was more readily available this could have been avoided.
Well as I said earlier there is a danger in presenting opinions as facts. Of course it makes sense to try to understand why this happened and make sense of it. That's a very human thing to do. What is dangerous is to state that someone is mentally ill when there is not any evidence to support that at this time. I'm sure help was readily available to him. He's probably one of the lucky ones in that regard. Most students can use the school counseling center free of charge. Whether or not they are willing to do it is a whole other ball game.
I know you know mental illness but have you dealt with a cracked mind...
a full blown out of reality episode? Cause this sounds like you are talking depression
or mood disorder.
Again did we learn anything from Loughner? He was an undiagnosed schizophrenic
who plotted and carried out a mass killing. Witnesses said he behaved just as this
guy did, as did the VA Tech killer, detached, emotionless, zombie like.
Just going through the motions emotionless.
I guess if it is dangerous to speculate about him then somebody should tell
the experts on TV and radio. cause boy are they talking mental illness.
Yes - I work with the full spectrum of disorders, including psychotic disorders like schizophrenia on a daily basis and I work as part of a behavioral intervention team to identify behaviors of concern and then provide treatment - free of charge to anyone in need.
The detachment could be a lack of empathy, not necessarily psychosis. Not enough info to tell at this point.
I agree Pandiora - the speculation is dangerous. It adds to the stigma and can impact the investigation and prosecution, and yet I understand why they do it.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
correct... I am not defending or condoning but believe in this case mental illness
is the cause, as with the Arizona tragedy. As I said I am not alone.
The problem is he probably would not have sought help because of the nature of the illness.
But family could. It is very hard to get someone mental help until they hurt themselves or others.
It is very difficult to find good help and almost always the financial expense so
absorbant that it is not even a plausible possibility.
But he will get help now just as Loughner is... after the fact.
what 'mental illness', specifically, do you surmise? Family may not have necessarily sought help, depending upon too many factors to get into now. It is not 'hard' to get someone help, or intervention... the hard part is applying the help to reality/actuality, which in many cases is difficult, if not impossible, depending on the 'nature of the illness'. But again, this is irrelevant in the discussion about this individual, who has no diagnosis at this point.
(edit: along the lines of cbg's post, there is a distinction between being a 'sociopath'--which I would say he is--and having a psychotic disorder. Many people, though, would umbrella either one under 'mentally ill', when they are very different animals).
The problem is he probably would not have sought help because of the nature of the illness.
I like this point. Self-awareness is a very difficult thing to teach someone when it comes to mental health, brain injury, or other mental disorders. Especially if his sense of reality is as distorted.
**I don't know if that's what you meant when you said the nature of the illness. However, throwing my two sense on the matter.
Pittsburgh 2003/Pittsburgh 2006/Outside Lands 2009/Bridge School 2010/Pittsburgh 2013
The problem is he probably would not have sought help because of the nature of the illness.
I like this point. Self-awareness is a very difficult thing to teach someone when it comes to mental health, brain injury, or other mental disorders. Especially if his sense of reality is as distorted.
**I don't know if that's what you meant when you said the nature of the illness. However, throwing my two sense on the matter.
yes this is what I meant ... your wording much better than mine
Why would anyone think someone in a full blown episode, a break from reality,
a schizophrenic seek help at a school counseling center.
Really?
The wouldn't, they couldn't even.
Just like Loughner ... the illness manifests as a purpose.
He will be brain tested ... hollow mask anyone
Most individuals who have a 'break from reality', have had them in the past, and have a history of mental health issues/evaluations/contact (just as cbg said as it manifests itself through fixations, delusional thoughts/behaviors). We do not know this about him yet, do we?? (maybe we do, but I don't know about it).
correct... I am not defending or condoning but believe in this case mental illness
is the cause, as with the Arizona tragedy. As I said I am not alone.
The problem is he probably would not have sought help because of the nature of the illness.
But family could. It is very hard to get someone mental help until they hurt themselves or others.
It is very difficult to find good help and almost always the financial expense so
absorbant that it is not even a plausible possibility.
But he will get help now just as Loughner is... after the fact.
what 'mental illness', specifically, do you surmise? Family may not have necessarily sought help, depending upon too many factors to get into now. It is not 'hard' to get someone help, or intervention... the hard part is applying the help to reality/actuality, which in many cases is difficult, if not impossible, depending on the 'nature of the illness'. But again, this is irrelevant in the discussion about this individual, who has no diagnosis at this point.
(edit: along the lines of cbg's post, there is a distinction between being a 'sociopath'--which I would say he is--and having a psychotic disorder. Many people, though, would umbrella either one under 'mentally ill', when they are very different animals).
Not hard if they have already hurt themselves or others,
not hard if they have an extra $35,000 laying around, probably more these days.
Gotta love the insurance companies and mental health benefits.
The problem is he probably would not have sought help because of the nature of the illness.
I like this point. Self-awareness is a very difficult thing to teach someone when it comes to mental health, brain injury, or other mental disorders. Especially if his sense of reality is as distorted.
**I don't know if that's what you meant when you said the nature of the illness. However, throwing my two sense on the matter.
yes this is what I meant ... your wording much better than mine
there IS no self-awareness in a psychotic person (assuming that's who you're referring to)...that's usually called insight. And, the wording is much better..just my two sense. (sorry. couldn't help myself).
0
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
Yes he has a mental illness, victims of his shooting spree have empathy.
It is my opinion that he is not an evil person seeking personal gratification or gain,
it is my opinion he is sick.
I would be broken by the fact that he was unable to get help before
he killed and wounded. That my loved one could have been saved if only...
I know all to well in my personal life experience that this is the cause
for so much pain and suffering ...
the inability to get help until after violence.
Pandora...
Yes he has a mental illness, victims of his shooting spree have empathy.
Is this a yes to my question that you would have empathy for the shooter if he had killed your son in that movie theatre? In your opinion he has a mental illness and is NOT evil without a proper mental evaluation done at this time. I hope you have EXPERIENCED 100's of these cases in order to come up with such a quick opinionated decision.
victims of his shooting spree have empathy.
May I ask how the hell do you know this....is this ALL of the victims or just a few? Have you heard or seen interviews of the the victims to come up with yet another opinion?
I would be broken by the fact that he was unable to get help before
he killed and wounded. That my loved one could have been saved if only...
I know all to well in my personal life experience that this is the cause
for so much pain and suffering ...
the inability to get help until after violence.
Again, how do you know he was trying to getting help...did you read that somewhere, was that info in a previous evaluation if so please produce such an eval. I think he was far more concern about getting his ammo, guns and setting his pre-plans for this shooting spree than ever having any thoughts of getting mental help.
So it appears what you might be saying there is that he has found relief from his apparent despair by going out planning and executing a killing spree in order to get the much needed mental help you feel he needs BEFORE a proper mental eval. That appears to be somewhat tragic and backwards but that's your opinion.
My experience in mental illness is just a short time working at Glenside Psychiatric Hospital just outside of Boston in Jamaica, Mass. I worked in all three wards locked (much more interesting and focused place to work...a place we worked on the worst psychiatric cases) unlocked ward and thevoluntary\involuntary ward. I hope you can follow up on a few of my concerns.
How do you get from my words that he was seeking help?
I have heard his victims say they have empathy for him...
some of his victims of course not all :? and yes on TV interviews.
And no I am not saying he found relief in his actions, quite the opposite.
After working in a facility one would think you would have more knowledge
of mental illness and not apply logic to a victim of disease
who is not living in a real and logical world like the rest of us.
It appears you still haven't answered my question if this were your son would you have empathy towards the killer?
Peace
Post edited by g under p on
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
correct... I am not defending or condoning but believe in this case mental illness
is the cause, as with the Arizona tragedy. As I said I am not alone.
The problem is he probably would not have sought help because of the nature of the illness.
But family could. It is very hard to get someone mental help until they hurt themselves or others.
It is very difficult to find good help and almost always the financial expense so
absorbant that it is not even a plausible possibility.
But he will get help now just as Loughner is... after the fact.
what 'mental illness', specifically, do you surmise? Family may not have necessarily sought help, depending upon too many factors to get into now. It is not 'hard' to get someone help, or intervention... the hard part is applying the help to reality/actuality, which in many cases is difficult, if not impossible, depending on the 'nature of the illness'. But again, this is irrelevant in the discussion about this individual, who has no diagnosis at this point.
(edit: along the lines of cbg's post, there is a distinction between being a 'sociopath'--which I would say he is--and having a psychotic disorder. Many people, though, would umbrella either one under 'mentally ill', when they are very different animals).
Not hard if they have already hurt themselves or others,
not hard if they have an extra $35,000 laying around, probably more these days.
Gotta love the insurance companies and mental health benefits.
Had he already hurt himself or others?? If so, he would have a documented mental health history (or at least a criminal record). And I have no idea what $35,000 has to do with what we're talking about...not even sure what we're talking about.
Why would anyone think someone in a full blown episode, a break from reality,
a schizophrenic seek help at a school counseling center.
Really?
The wouldn't, they couldn't even.
Just like Loughner ... the illness manifests as a purpose.
He will be brain tested ... hollow mask anyone
Most individuals who have a 'break from reality', have had them in the past, and have a history of mental health issues/evaluations/contact (just as cbg said as it manifests itself through fixations, delusional thoughts/behaviors). We do not know this about him yet, do we?? (maybe we do, but I don't know about it).
Exactly. There are typically prodromols that we look for, so we can intervene before a full blown break. That's where the BIT teams come in. Some students have enough self awareness to connect with services before they fully decompensate
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
I do hope that understanding the black place this young man's acts came from can provide insight as to the why - not just for this situation but perhaps to also provide warning signs down the road for others.
But in the end, does it matter if he's mentally ill or just a sick fuck? Or some of both?
Had I lost someone in that bloodbath, I don't think it would mean anything for me to see further into his mind.
Yes he has a mental illness, victims of his shooting spree have empathy.
It is my opinion that he is not an evil person seeking personal gratification or gain,
it is my opinion he is sick.
I would be broken by the fact that he was unable to get help before
he killed and wounded. That my loved one could have been saved if only...
I know all to well in my personal life experience that this is the cause
for so much pain and suffering ...
the inability to get help until after violence.
Pandora...
Yes he has a mental illness, victims of his shooting spree have empathy.
Is this a yes to my question that you would have empathy for the shooter if he had killed your son in that movie theatre? In your opinion he has a mental illness and is NOT evil without a proper mental evaluation done at this time. I hope you have EXPERIENCED 100's of these cases in order to come up with such a quick opinionated decision.
victims of his shooting spree have empathy.
May I ask how the hell do you know this....is this ALL of the victims or just a few? Have you heard or seen interviews of the the victims to come up with yet another opinion?
I would be broken by the fact that he was unable to get help before
he killed and wounded. That my loved one could have been saved if only...
I know all to well in my personal life experience that this is the cause
for so much pain and suffering ...
the inability to get help until after violence.
Again, how do you know he was trying to getting help...did you read that somewhere, was that info in a previous evaluation if so please produce such an eval. I think he was far more concern about getting his ammo, guns and setting his pre-plans for this shooting spree than ever having any thoughts of getting mental help.
So it appears what you might be saying there is that he has found relief from his apparent despair by going out planning and executing a killing spree in order to get the much needed mental help you feel he needs BEFORE a proper mental eval. That appears to be somewhat tragic and backwards but that's your opinion.
My experience in mental illness is just a short time working at Glenside Psychiatric Hospital just outside of Boston in Jamaica, Mass. I worked in all three wards locked (much more interesting and focused place to work...a place we worked on the worst psychiatric cases) unlocked ward and thevoluntary\involuntary ward. I hope you can follow up on a few of my concerns.
How do you get from my words that he was seeking help?
I have heard his victims say they have empathy for him...
some of his victims of course not all :? and yes on TV interviews.
And no I am not saying he found relief in his actions, quite the opposite.
After working in a facility one would think you would have more knowledge
of mental illness and not apply logic to a victim of disease
who is not living in a real and logical world like the rest of us.
It appears you still haven't answered my question if this were your son would you have empathy towards the killer?
Peace
a very realistic question but also cheap and over used in my opinion.
Why would anyone think someone in a full blown episode, a break from reality,
a schizophrenic seek help at a school counseling center.
Really?
The wouldn't, they couldn't even.
Just like Loughner ... the illness manifests as a purpose.
He will be brain tested ... hollow mask anyone
Where should he have sought help if he needed it? The services would be available to him free of charge. No 35k needed. Schizophrenic students receive services in college counseling centers every day, whether they seek them directly before a break or the center conducts an outreach.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
0
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
How do you get from my words that he was seeking help?
I have heard his victims say they have empathy for him...
some of his victims of course not all :? and yes on TV interviews.
And no I am not saying he found relief in his actions, quite the opposite.
After working in a facility one would think you would have more knowledge
of mental illness and not apply logic to a victim of disease
who is not living in a real and logical world like the rest of us.
It appears you still haven't answered my question if this were your son would you have empathy towards the killer?
a very realistic question but also cheap and over used in my opinion.
Godfather.
Thanks GF, I don't know why or how it's cheap maybe if I threw some gold in there it wouldn't be. There's reason I asked that question due what she has written past posts and there must be a reason why she appears to NOT want to answer the question when it's turned to her family. It appears she has two standards of operating procedures and I want to find out why.
Not an attack or cheap shot just to be clear...I just want to know does her strong stance still hold when it comes to her relatives. That's all since you care to appear to defend...good for you.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Why would anyone think someone in a full blown episode, a break from reality,
a schizophrenic seek help at a school counseling center.
Really?
The wouldn't, they couldn't even.
Just like Loughner ... the illness manifests as a purpose.
He will be brain tested ... hollow mask anyone
I'm pretty sure someone who had a break from reality and woke up surrounded by guns and bombs might seek some form of assistance! I've never heard of someone having a 6 month long break from reality, although i will stand corrected by the experts.
What is dangerous is to state that someone is mentally ill when there is not any evidence to support that at this time.
He dyed his hair red, calls himself the joker and shot up a batman movie showing in a theater=mental illness
or he planned his defense in advance. If he really thought he was the joker he wouldnt have turned up in full combat gear and he would have painted his face!
Really, a guy who dyed his hair red, calls himself the joker and shot up a batman movie showing in a theater planned his defense in advance. Mentally ill does not mean you go free. If he had planned his defense in advance he would have fled or had someone else take the fall.
correct... I am not defending or condoning but believe in this case mental illness
is the cause, as with the Arizona tragedy. As I said I am not alone.
The problem is he probably would not have sought help because of the nature of the illness.
But family could. It is very hard to get someone mental help until they hurt themselves or others.
It is very difficult to find good help and almost always the financial expense so
absorbant that it is not even a plausible possibility.
But he will get help now just as Loughner is... after the fact.
what 'mental illness', specifically, do you surmise? Family may not have necessarily sought help, depending upon too many factors to get into now. It is not 'hard' to get someone help, or intervention... the hard part is applying the help to reality/actuality, which in many cases is difficult, if not impossible, depending on the 'nature of the illness'. But again, this is irrelevant in the discussion about this individual, who has no diagnosis at this point.
(edit: along the lines of cbg's post, there is a distinction between being a 'sociopath'--which I would say he is--and having a psychotic disorder. Many people, though, would umbrella either one under 'mentally ill', when they are very different animals).
I think he has trumped sociopath into psychopath territory. That said, I am not a doctor, I just play one on the internet.
All of this speculation about, "He was menatlly this... or he should have done that..." is meaningless.
All that matters in 12 people are dead and several others are clinging to life becuase of THIS Man.
He has to be held responsible for what he did... even if it was his alter ego or some voice in his head. He didn't flip the switch and go berzerk... over a long period of time, he amassed a stockpile of weapons he could transport and use on people.
No one really gives a shit about someone's bullshit/baseless speculation that CANNOT be applied to this CRIMINAL. We just want him out of our free society.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I do hope that understanding the black place this young man's acts came from can provide insight as to the why - not just for this situation but perhaps to also provide warning signs down the road for others.
But in the end, does it matter if he's mentally ill or just a sick fuck? Or some of both?
Had I lost someone in that bloodbath, I don't think it would mean anything for me to see further into his mind.
There is value to this statement.
It's safe to say that anyone committing such a crime is mentally unstable- regardless of any medically recognized mental illness as a label that might conveniantly explain the actions for some people.
In the end, does it matter if the guy is a schizophrenic or a sociopath? Despite any underlying motivations, his actions are inexcusable.
At some point in time, we might be able to further levels of awareness for mental health. Our responsibility for the time being though- given what has happened- lies with the survivors. Part of that responsibility is dealing with this idiot. I think it is in extremely poor taste to publically empathize with this guy when so many are reeling from the magnitude of what has happened. Sorry Pandora, not that I've seen a ton of footage, but I haven't heard any survivors you claim to have heard publically pity the creep. I'm calling bullshit.
The fabric of our society is unraveling at a very rapid rate. Where are you safe if it is not even in a movie theater? If two guys want to shoot it out over a drug deal gone badly, whatever- just make sure you're accurate with your shots. When children cannot even go to the theater, or school, or the mall, or a backyard barbeque... oh man.
Small scale to large scale... we are losing our values. One of my players had a rough night last night as his grandfather was rushed to emergency- he was shoved to the ground by a group of punks when he stumbled on to a fight. His 85 year old body couldn't sustain the fall and he broke ribs and punctured his lung. Our town's a 'nice town' too. If it's happening here... well...
Who's going to be the first to chime in and say, "Well it would be nice to know what emotional problems that youth was dealing with before we judge him too harshly."
at the heart of this, is one simple face; there are mentally unstable people and there even are bad people and there always will be shouldn't it be harder for them - and anyone for that matter - to get guns?
I don't mean to offend anyone, a lot of what I say should be taken with a grain of salt... that said for most of you I'm a stranger on a computer on the other side of the world, don't give me that sort of power!
All of this speculation about, "He was menatlly this... or he should have done that..." is meaningless.
All that matters in 12 people are dead and several others are clinging to life becuase of THIS Man.
He has to be held responsible for what he did... even if it was his alter ego or some voice in his head. He didn't flip the switch and go berzerk... over a long period of time, he amassed a stockpile of weapons he could transport and use on people.
No one really gives a shit about someone's bullshit/baseless speculation that CANNOT be applied to this CRIMINAL. We just want him out of our free society.
What might come out of the speculation and any conclusions that can be drawn from his mental state down the road, after information is gathered, is helpful to people who want to prevent this happening in the future. These people might be in the mental health field, criminal justice field, or both. It's also natural for people to want to make some sense of such extreme behavior.
Comments
or he planned his defense in advance. If he really thought he was the joker he wouldnt have turned up in full combat gear and he would have painted his face!
Same thing happened in my home country, Australia. It's already been mentioned already in this thread. Port Arthur, 1996. In probably the only act by the enduring conservative government I've fully approved of, the federal and all state governments united to ban and heavily restrict automatic and semiautomatic rifles and shotguns, coupled with a major buyback initiative. Gun-related mass murders in the 16 years since? Zero.
With this? Bugger all will change.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
a full blown out of reality episode? Cause this sounds like you are talking depression
or mood disorder.
Again did we learn anything from Loughner? He was an undiagnosed schizophrenic
who plotted and carried out a mass killing. Witnesses said he behaved just as this
guy did, as did the VA Tech killer, detached, emotionless, zombie like.
Just going through the motions emotionless.
I guess if it is dangerous to speculate about him then somebody should tell
the experts on TV and radio.
The detachment could be a lack of empathy, not necessarily psychosis. Not enough info to tell at this point.
I agree Pandiora - the speculation is dangerous. It adds to the stigma and can impact the investigation and prosecution, and yet I understand why they do it.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
(edit: along the lines of cbg's post, there is a distinction between being a 'sociopath'--which I would say he is--and having a psychotic disorder. Many people, though, would umbrella either one under 'mentally ill', when they are very different animals).
I like this point. Self-awareness is a very difficult thing to teach someone when it comes to mental health, brain injury, or other mental disorders. Especially if his sense of reality is as distorted.
**I don't know if that's what you meant when you said the nature of the illness. However, throwing my two sense on the matter.
a schizophrenic seek help at a school counseling center.
Really?
The wouldn't, they couldn't even.
Just like Loughner ... the illness manifests as a purpose.
He will be brain tested ... hollow mask anyone
not hard if they have an extra $35,000 laying around, probably more these days.
Gotta love the insurance companies and mental health benefits.
It appears you still haven't answered my question if this were your son would you have empathy towards the killer?
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
But in the end, does it matter if he's mentally ill or just a sick fuck? Or some of both?
Had I lost someone in that bloodbath, I don't think it would mean anything for me to see further into his mind.
Godfather.
Where should he have sought help if he needed it? The services would be available to him free of charge. No 35k needed. Schizophrenic students receive services in college counseling centers every day, whether they seek them directly before a break or the center conducts an outreach.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Thanks GF, I don't know why or how it's cheap maybe if I threw some gold in there it wouldn't be. There's reason I asked that question due what she has written past posts and there must be a reason why she appears to NOT want to answer the question when it's turned to her family. It appears she has two standards of operating procedures and I want to find out why.
Not an attack or cheap shot just to be clear...I just want to know does her strong stance still hold when it comes to her relatives. That's all since you care to appear to defend...good for you.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I think they call those serial killers
PJ: 2011-09-03 2011-09-04
I'm pretty sure someone who had a break from reality and woke up surrounded by guns and bombs might seek some form of assistance! I've never heard of someone having a 6 month long break from reality, although i will stand corrected by the experts.
Really, a guy who dyed his hair red, calls himself the joker and shot up a batman movie showing in a theater planned his defense in advance. Mentally ill does not mean you go free. If he had planned his defense in advance he would have fled or had someone else take the fall.
Sometimes somebody is cucu for cocopuffs.
PJ: 2011-09-03 2011-09-04
I think he has trumped sociopath into psychopath territory. That said, I am not a doctor, I just play one on the internet.
PJ: 2011-09-03 2011-09-04
All that matters in 12 people are dead and several others are clinging to life becuase of THIS Man.
He has to be held responsible for what he did... even if it was his alter ego or some voice in his head. He didn't flip the switch and go berzerk... over a long period of time, he amassed a stockpile of weapons he could transport and use on people.
No one really gives a shit about someone's bullshit/baseless speculation that CANNOT be applied to this CRIMINAL. We just want him out of our free society.
Hail, Hail!!!
There is value to this statement.
It's safe to say that anyone committing such a crime is mentally unstable- regardless of any medically recognized mental illness as a label that might conveniantly explain the actions for some people.
In the end, does it matter if the guy is a schizophrenic or a sociopath? Despite any underlying motivations, his actions are inexcusable.
At some point in time, we might be able to further levels of awareness for mental health. Our responsibility for the time being though- given what has happened- lies with the survivors. Part of that responsibility is dealing with this idiot. I think it is in extremely poor taste to publically empathize with this guy when so many are reeling from the magnitude of what has happened. Sorry Pandora, not that I've seen a ton of footage, but I haven't heard any survivors you claim to have heard publically pity the creep. I'm calling bullshit.
The fabric of our society is unraveling at a very rapid rate. Where are you safe if it is not even in a movie theater? If two guys want to shoot it out over a drug deal gone badly, whatever- just make sure you're accurate with your shots. When children cannot even go to the theater, or school, or the mall, or a backyard barbeque... oh man.
Small scale to large scale... we are losing our values. One of my players had a rough night last night as his grandfather was rushed to emergency- he was shoved to the ground by a group of punks when he stumbled on to a fight. His 85 year old body couldn't sustain the fall and he broke ribs and punctured his lung. Our town's a 'nice town' too. If it's happening here... well...
Who's going to be the first to chime in and say, "Well it would be nice to know what emotional problems that youth was dealing with before we judge him too harshly."
What might come out of the speculation and any conclusions that can be drawn from his mental state down the road, after information is gathered, is helpful to people who want to prevent this happening in the future. These people might be in the mental health field, criminal justice field, or both. It's also natural for people to want to make some sense of such extreme behavior.